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DermaRoller

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lagomorph
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Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:12 pm      Reply with quote
I haven't rolled recently because I switched bcps
and my face started breaking out. Now that I'm back on my old ones and my skin is clear I plan to start again. I've noticed a big difference on the right side of my face, which was the side I had rolled more completely and more often.(I wanted my own evidence that dermarolling will cause a definite result.)
One thing I thought I'd mention is that if skin is exfoliated the needles don't cause as much pain, at least imo. I bought a pretrika (clarisonic dupe) and it's perfect for this.
Keliu
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Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:03 am      Reply with quote
More on dermarolling and LED treatment.

In this month's Australian Harper's Bazaar there's a segment on clinical skin needling. The article states that after the procedure the clinic offers a "20 minute treatment under a yellow LED light which reduces any redness".

So here's another case of LED treatment being used to calm down inflammation.

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foxe
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Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:05 pm      Reply with quote
That sounds like the Gentle Waves that's offered at the clinic I go to for Botox. They give a 1 min treatment (N/C) after an injection.

20 mins is a very long time under the yellow lites and it should take care of a lot of inflammation. I thought inflammation was the name of the game here w/ dermarolling, albeit a minor and acute case of it (Sorry if I missed something posted - but have things changed recently. diff recommendations?)

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
faeriedust
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Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:10 pm      Reply with quote
Is dr roller made in korea? The dr roller I ordered from dr roller.eu are made in Korea. I thought they were from the US.

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Keliu
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Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:11 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
20 mins is a very long time under the yellow lites and it should take care of a lot of inflammation. I thought inflammation was the name of the game here w/ dermarolling, albeit a minor and acute case of it (Sorry if I missed something posted - but have things changed recently. diff recommendations?)


No, you haven't missed anything - there seems to be allot of conflicting views on this matter.

Faeriedust, yes the Dr. Roller is from Korea.

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Barefootgirl
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Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:15 pm      Reply with quote
Here's a link that will take you to updated articles:

http://www.dermogenesis.com/clinical/

These articles will answer many of the most frequent questions that come up on this thread.

BF
faeriedust
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Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:33 am      Reply with quote
I just tried the 1.0 derma roller without any numbing. But it didnt hurt or bleed? Am I mad? Did I not put in deep enough? But when I removed the roller from my skin, I could hear a sound? Like squish?
argh I dont want to push in too deep. But I dont know if Im not pushing in deep enough because it didnt hurt that much?

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superdogg
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Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:03 am      Reply with quote
In my opinion you didn't do it right... The first time i did a roll it didnt get the area red or bleed...then i used ice to numb the area and did the roll again and this time was blood and dots

I should hurt abit cos needles are going into ur skin ...but maybe it depends on the part of body ur doing it on..But i am using a 1.5 mm
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Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:49 am      Reply with quote
The area was red but I didnt bleed. I rolled my cheeks. Must I really bleed to know that I've rolled properly? It does hurt a bit but it's bearable as in I dont feel like I have to numb it. I would say I have high tolerance for pain.
I'll try again a month later.

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Mariek
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Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:00 pm      Reply with quote
I think I am now ready to Roll! My question is, what size roller should I get for cellulite and sagging skin on butt and back of thighs. I know that skin is thicker there and there's more fat than on face - 1.5, 2.5 or 1.0 since never rolled before. I plan to use Ice and witch hazel right after. Along with Birch weleda's cellulite oils. Are oils ok so use after rolling? Also, how frequently for cellulite? Every week, every four weeks. I'll take any and all advice. Thank you in advance!!!!
eraseunavez
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Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:50 am      Reply with quote
coulp help me dermaroller on pitted acne scars?
superdogg
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Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:01 am      Reply with quote
yes it can help for pitted scars...i have very mild ones just did a roll i hope it works...
foxe
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:40 pm      Reply with quote
Mariek - do a search for:

cellulite AND roll

you might find the info you need by doing that.

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Barefootgirl
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Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:49 am      Reply with quote
Subject: dermarolling and inflammation

I've read several comments on this thread linking dermarolling to subclinical, or "invisible" inflammation. I am not referring to the acute inflammation seen as in a sunburn -redness, peeling, irritation, discomfort, etc.

I am referring to skin inflammation that you cannot see or feel.

I cannot find any details about this - as to its cause, its proof of existence or treatments to mitigate, all I find are simple references that it exists.

I have Perricone's books - coming up blank there too - he mentions it, but no details.

If anyone has any further information - references, research, books, etc. - please let me know - either here or by private message.

I would like to do a write up on the topic,just as I have been doing for product penetration.

Thank you.BF
eraseunavez
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Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:45 am      Reply with quote
Those who sold on eBay are of poor quality?
Keliu
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Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:21 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
If anyone has any further information - references, research, books, etc. - please let me know - either here or by private message.

I would like to do a write up on the topic,just as I have been doing for product penetration.

Thank you.BF


What about asking Dr. Liebl via this website:

http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/question-about-collagen-function/

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Barefootgirl
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Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:21 am      Reply with quote
Hi Keliu, thanks, I just asked the question of Dr. Fernandes and received this response:

[i]With the home cosmetic needling with needles about 0.2 mm to enhance penetration through the outer horny layer of the skin only. This is our real barrier against the environment and is incredible thin. If you make tiny holes in the horny layer you will not cause any inflammation in the lower skin (the dermis) because the needles cannot reach that deep. Of course this statement depends on what you put on the skin. I have done histological studies to show the changes that we see with enhanced penetration of Environ Vitamin A products and what we have found is a very convincing normalisation of tissues without any signs of inflammation. If you are using a product that contains other ingredients that might initiate an inflammatory response, then of course, Cosmetic Needling would aggravate that situation. It might be visible as a plumpness of the skin and smoothening out of wrinkles but this might be due to subtle swelling of the tissues. We know for absolute certain that if the needling is done well enough, that we can enhance penetration by as much as a thousand-fold at least.



With medical needling where the needles are between 1-3 mm long, the needles actually penetrate into the dermis and cause bleeding which initiates the cascade of growth factors – the so-called “inflammatory” response to trauma. In this case the trauma is different because cells are not exposed to air and what happens is not the standard inflammatory response. Instead the growth factors favour regeneration of tissue. The “inflammation” in this case is not the same as chronic inflammation that we know contributes to aging. In fact needling seems to have the exact opposite effect with rejuvenation of the skin clinically and even a restoration of severe photo-damaged skin back into more normal skin. I have histological evidence of this.



So in summary, whether you are using an instrument to enhance penetration or to induce collagen formation, you will not be causing any inflammation as far as my research has shown using Environ skin care products. I can’t speak for any other skin care and I don’t think anyone has examined the skin with the microscope after using other skin care products. So please look at the ingredients of your skin care if you are doing Cosmetic needling if you are concerned about (invisible) chronic inflammation .
Barefootgirl
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Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:35 am      Reply with quote
Upon searching, it appears that Bethany had already asked this question of Mr. Liebl.

His reply was similar - it depends on the topicals used, with a particular concern regarding acids.

In my opinion, some of the biggest concerns for home rollers are avoiding infection, over doing it with frequency and using the wrong topicals.

BF
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Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:16 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks for posting that Barefoot.
I've already been considering doing my next roll with some Environ or 302 products instead of my retin a and LAA.
It's good to know that there's been some study done on the inflammation effects with the use of environ and that there's nothing to worry about there. I'd expect the 302 to be in the same caliber.
superdogg
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:35 am      Reply with quote
Well my first results...where i rolled but didn't bleed much hardly anything happened...but the stretch marks that i rolled and did bleed...they look so much better! As for the face roll my skin looks much for clear...Can't wait to do a more aggressive roll with lots or blood Smile
Barefootgirl
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:57 am      Reply with quote
Hi Mishey,

You're welcome. Based on all I am reading and discussing with various researchers, I would not use retinoids or LAA with rolling - immediately before or any time soon after.

Other forms of these vitamins appear to be much more appropriate for that level of skin penetration.

BF
Kay2008
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:10 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Based on all I am reading and discussing with various researchers, I would not use retinoids or LAA with rolling - immediately before or any time soon after.

Other forms of these vitamins appear to be much more appropriate for that level of skin penetration.

BF


Can I ask why? This has been 'discussed/brought up' in the stretch mark thread... but no one has had the answer.

When I roll, I apply my Retin-A cream within minutes after rolling.
Barefootgirl
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:19 am      Reply with quote
Based on all I've read these are the issues -

With the Retin A form of Vitamin A, this is a known irritant to the skin, when you allow it to penetrate even more deeply and directly, as is the case with dermarolling, it has the potential to trigger an even greater amount of irritation, leading to inflammation which is damaging to the skin.

With LAA, the doctors do not recommend it with rolling, as they claim that in this form, it is also damaging to the skin.

Recommend you read the newer articles on the link I recently posted. I believe the link was also posted by havana8 at the top of the forum as a sticky.


Reseach is your friend when it comes to dermarolling.

BF
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:27 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Based on all I've read these are the issues -

With the Retin A form of Vitamin A, this is a known irritant to the skin, when you allow it to penetrate even more deeply and directly, as is the case with dermarolling, it has the potential to trigger an even greater amount of irritation, leading to inflammation which is damaging to the skin.

With LAA, the doctors do not recommend it with rolling, as they claim that in this form, it is also damaging to the skin.

Recommend you read the newer articles on the link I recently posted. I believe the link was also posted by havana8 at the top of the forum as a sticky.


Reseach is your friend when it comes to dermarolling.

BF


Here we go: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=474347#474347
Kay2008
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:29 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Based on all I've read these are the issues -

With the Retin A form of Vitamin A, this is a known irritant to the skin, when you allow it to penetrate even more deeply and directly, as is the case with dermarolling, it has the potential to trigger an even greater amount of irritation, leading to inflammation which is damaging to the skin.

With LAA, the doctors do not recommend it with rolling, as they claim that in this form, it is also damaging to the skin.

Recommend you read the newer articles on the link I recently posted. I believe the link was also posted by havana8 at the top of the forum as a sticky.


Reseach is your friend when it comes to dermarolling.

BF



Thank you for that... I thought you were going to mention something about liver. I am sure I remember reading about it somewhere in this thread.

I asked you why, because I was curious to see (after reading your post) if applying Retin-A after a roll could have a negative effect on the actual area… now you have confirmed this… but I was never even aware that Retin-A can basically cause damage in the area you roll. So I am glad I asked you to explain

You are right, research is your BEST friend when it comes to derma rolling, but I also feel that this thread is part of that too. If we all did ALL the research possible and new everything about derma rolling, then I doubt this thread would even exist… or be needed anymore.
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