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Barefootgirl
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:10 am      Reply with quote
Yes, some of the posters here have mentioned a Vitamin A overload in the liver due to the intense penetration of retinoids.

Most of what I have learned about the various forms of Vitamin A/retinoids and various benefits/risks comes from information written in dermatology textbooks and from Dr. Huber, Dr. Fernandes, Dr. Thornfeldt, etc.

Good luck to you, it's a journey....BF
Kay2008
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Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:47 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Yes, some of the posters here have mentioned a Vitamin A overload in the liver due to the intense penetration of retinoids.

Most of what I have learned about the various forms of Vitamin A/retinoids and various benefits/risks comes from information written in dermatology textbooks and from Dr. Huber, Dr. Fernandes, Dr. Thornfeldt, etc.

Good luck to you, it's a journey....BF


Well I am glad you posted above, I can now decide what to do after my next roll now, where as before I didn't even know it could do harm

Thank you for replying and for offering your help BF
Loosey
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Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:46 am      Reply with quote
Hrm, I just read that a low carbs diet reduces inflammation in the body.. does this apply to the inflammation we get from rolling too? Because I've been on a Low Carb High Fat diet since January, and it would suck if this reduces the inflammation from rolling as its what triggering the collagen induction. Confused

English isnt my first language so I'm having a little difficulty understanding this, could someone put it down easy LOL ? Smile

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2007/12/04/33162.aspx
pleiades
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:15 am      Reply with quote
Just a little update. I had initially followed Bethany's rolling protocol: 6 weeks of weekly rolls (I ended up with 5, I believe), break of 6 months, another roll (with the 1.0mm). Oral and topical Vit's A & C everyday.

I primarily wanted the rolls to help revise acne pits and give an overall smoother texture to my skin. IMO, I believe it's slowly doing just that. My acne pit scars will take longer, but I did notice that two chicken pox marks have had a noticeable improvement. They appear to be slowly *filling in*. One, you can only see when the light hits at a certain angle. It was actually sort of disconcerting to look in the mirror and notice this one had pretty much dissappeared. lol
stevie_
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Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:57 am      Reply with quote
INFECTION CONTROL

Wanted to share some thoughts about infection control:
If your going to be rolling you might consider some of the following:

1. Dont roll in the bathroom if possible. Bathroom/kitchen have
oodles of bacteria/mold. If you do, disinfect it really good prior to rolling.
2. Prior to rolling, disinfect the room you are rolling in as much as possible.
3. Wear sterile gloves (can purchase at a medical supply store for $1.)
(have you ever seen a surgeon in a picture without gloves??, why should
we be any less careful).
4. Buy surgical hand scrub for use prior to rolling (medical supply store)
5. Buy this uv light pocket sanitizing wand for your rollers (recommended by boski):
Http://www.computergear.com/feldstein-uv-light-sterilizer--wand.html
6. Wipe your face prior to rolling with betadine
7. Use sterile everything, sterile gauze/pads, sterile .9 saline (both at Walgreens)
8. Improve your own immune system to fight off infection. In the worse case scenario
and bacteria gets into my wound, can my body still fight it off?
9. If reusing a roller, make darn sure that it is disinfected/sterilized as much
as possible prior to use.

Really consider the main "widow" for infection, from the time you first prick
your skin, until the time the puncture wounds close (1.5 to 2 hours total).

Here's an interesting reply on another thread:
"I'm probably way more anal than I need to be, but I have access to a lot of stuff most of you won't. Typically, I'll scrub down with a surgical hand scrub, glove up, wipe off the topical anesthetic with sterile gauze, wipe my face down with Betadine, dermaroll, rinse my face a few times with 0.9% sterilized saline, apply Polysporin for 30 min. while cleaning up, wipe it off and wash my face, then apply vit. A/C serum. I also start Doxy and Acyclovir a day before I roll and usually for a day or 2 after."
Let's all be as safe as we can
Best wishes, Stevie
stevie_
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Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:59 am      Reply with quote
USING EMLA CREAM:
here's a copy/paste also from another thread
"Lamar1986" the author:

"Hey guys,

Some of you may remember Bulgarian derm bringing up the point that some people have suffered things such as cardiac arrest from topical anesthetics such as Lidocaine. While these incidents are extremely unlikely, they are a rare possible risk.... I was reading an article earlier and it went along with my consensus that it is the higher concentrations of lidocaine e.g. 10% applied under occlusion that pose the problem.

EMLA does contain 2.5% lidocaine and 2.5% prilocaine. Now because i recommend people use EMLA i want to make a new recommendation for safety. Because we do this at home we don't have the supervision we would have in a hospital, so here is what i recommend we do from now on to minimise the chances even further.

The half life (time for the body to eliminate half of the drug from the body) of lidocaine is aprox 2hrs, prilocane is even shorter. SO as some of you have been doing i recommend you do one section of your face at a time in the same evening, leaving and hour or two in between application of the anesthetics.

E.g. at 5pm apply anesthetic to right cheek, leave under occlusion for an hour then clean and needle/dermaroll. Then at 7pm do the same on the right cheek, then 9pm do the forehead....


This way you will have aprox 1/3-1/2 of the peak plasma concentration you would have if you were to apply it all at once. As you all should know, chances of side effects decrease with a decrease in dose. So i am confident if we all do this we will never have any problems.

I hope you all take the time to read this.
superdogg
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:39 am      Reply with quote
That is the most silly thing i have heard!!! Emla cream is safe using it on 100 cm2 squared and that is a large area...

It becomes dangerous if someone it using it like over a very large area like both thighs and legs at the same time and double dose it. And put If you have a blood or heart disorder, then don't use it.

What i would say is, if you have put emla on your face and it wears off after you roll...don't apply anymore for 2 hours because it is an open wound. I am see people trying to post stuff that derma rolling is dangerous and damages your skin....Most of these people saying this have never done a roll
stevie_
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:21 am      Reply with quote
below are quotes from a research dermatologists:



"Just thought you should know that numbing creams such as EMLA are pretty dangerous in high doses. This is especially true when applying saran wrap over the area of application, since more of the anesthetic is absorbed through the skin and becomes systemic. I don't know which site advises using the technique and quantity of the cream you mentioned in your post, but I strongly advise you against trying it. At the very least you may be damaging your organs (ie: liver, kidneys, etc...) and in the worst scenario it's game over. In other words, there have been documented cases of death from over application of numbing cream."

_________________________________________________


"Any anaesthetic (even in small doses) can inflict acute and often reversible damage on organs. Sometimes the effects can be chronic in nature. In very rare cases they become life threatening. This is especially true when the cream is used in a fashion not originally considered/intended by the manufacturer. Occlusion is one of the ways it was not intended for use, and the warnings and dosing parameters set forth by Asla, the producer of this cream, relates specifically to normal numbing practices.

Perhaps you haven't heard about this because the medical community realizes that (a) sometimes the use of anaesthetic is required and the benefits outweight the risks, and (b) telling the patient about it can sometimes cause him/her to cancel a particular treament and seek another less effective means of dealing with their illness, condition, etc... Of course if you ask your doctor about this, who has as you say, used numbing cream (in relatively high doses and by way of occlusion) for quite some time, then it's very unlikely he'll admit there any risks to it.

A few years back when I started doing simple procedures on people I was using numbing cream. Then I ended up dropping it except for special cases where there was no other way to approach a given procedure.

BTW, the facial skin tends to absorb substances a lot more efficiently than other parts of the body. While one may think this is not a large enough surface area to raise any concerns, many dermatologists who perform facial procedures feel otherwise. This is especially true in light of the fact that we're tlking about dermarolling procedures, which indeed will increase the absorbtion of the anaesthetic cream residue even after a time lapse (from the time of application) of 1 hour. Now if you guys don't believe this, that's certainly your prerogative.

You can research numbing cream mishaps and make your own deductions. There is also a reason why EMLA cream is usually sold by prescription only. Furthermore, applying it at home in the high doses mentioned here, right before a needling procedure, is quite worrysome. If you like even contact the manufacturer and ask them if they recommend occlusion. I already know the answer to this."
_____________________________________________

"Just be careful... Your health is #1.

Below I've posted a link to a report for both lamarr1986 and thelegend. It discusses extreme cases that resulted in death, which are indeed rare. Nonetheless it illustrates the power of the anaesthetic compounds within these creams and their potentially negative impact from aggressive long-term use. Try to stay on the conservative side when using it.

http://www.essentialdrugs.org/edrug/archiv...02/msg00013.php"

_______________________________________________

Its not who's right, who wrong. Or who's being silly. I have a concern for other people and their health. Topics need to be discussed for the end effect of having a healthy safe procedure.
superdogg
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:31 pm      Reply with quote
I agree with most of what is being said. I saying you won't die putting emla on your face unless you have a serious underlying medical condition. So there is no need to do one cheek every 2 hours. The emla pack comes with instructions telling you how much you can put on in any given time frame, and what dosage is allowed plus who can't use it due to medical conditions.

One girl died from putting emla on both thighs, but legs and using double the dose at same time. One man died cause he has heart problems... I agree Don't you more than you are allowed to in the instructions.
Keliu
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:05 pm      Reply with quote
I'm in Australia and Emla is sold OTC here - no prescription needed. Also, topical numbing creams are applied commonly here when having cosmetic procedures done in clinics - saran wrap and all.

I totally agree with taking all precautions when doing home procedures. However, I would point out that if you look for it, a horror story can be found related to just about anything and everything. If you're not applying numbing cream to large areas of the body, I wouldn't be overly concerned.

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Mishey
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:39 pm      Reply with quote
An update.

It's been 4 and a half months since my last aggressive roll on my arms, and 5 and a half since the last one on my chest.
I had real crepy looking upper arm skin, and it wrinkled in the inner arm area when rubbing on my side when walking. The crepy look, which was on the outer upper arm area is now gone, and the wrinkling when rubbing is a good 80% gone. I can't tell you how happy I am with the result so far.
My chest is improved out of sight aswell. I wear a chest pillow to bed so as not to get wrinkles on the chest area during the night, and have for years. I'd had abit to drink the other night and went to bed without it. I couldn't believe it when I woke up the next morning and had no wrinkles there.
I've done 2 aggressive rolls 3 months apart on my chest, and 3 at 2 months apart on my arms.
I wanted to space the rolls right out, and also allow alot of time to see how the results would be. I am really happy I did. I'm going to go another couple of treatments at a couple of months apart again and see if I can't be 100% free of the inner arm wrinkling.
superdogg
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:13 am      Reply with quote
Mishey I am soo happy for you! Nice to hear people who had had good results Gives all of us hope! How did you get your results was it slowly improving over the four months?

I am going to do an agressive face roll today! ( Can never look young enough!) I am going to apply the emla cream for an hour I hope it just makes my face look more youthful and helps with very minor acne scars already nearly Gone from just one treatmeant. Will let you guys know!
Jackie284
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:01 am      Reply with quote
Hi everyone,

regarding using Emla, what would be the maximum facial area you would cover at any one time ?

many thanks

Jackie xx
superdogg
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:40 am      Reply with quote
well it's says on the instruction manual... that 1.5g - 2g for every 10cm squared....


But it doesn't say maximum area for Adults

But it's does for 7 to 11 year olds and their maximum dosage is Up to 20 grams on total skin area not larger than 200 cm2 in size. Application approx 1 hour , maximum 5 hours

I would think the maximum is 30 gram for adults might be 40 grams. will find out

But 60grams is overdose!!!
Do not use if:

Make sure you not on heart medication

Anaemic

Have an illness called Glucose 6 phosphate dehydrogenase Deficiency

On Medication called sulphonamides, mexiletine
amiodarone
Jackie284
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:59 am      Reply with quote
thanks superdogg,

when I used it on the sides of my face, just over the masseter muscles, the skin turned white, is this normal on some areas ?

thanks again

Jackie xx
superdogg
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:17 am      Reply with quote
Well a common side effect is for the skin to go pale when emla is applied

Severe allergic reaction include these symptoms

1. Rash
2. Feeling shortness of breath
3. Low blood pressure , which may make you feel faint or dizzy

4. Swelling of the face, lips, tongue or other parts of the body

If any of these things happen to anyone call a doctor straight away or 999 or 911 or whatever emergency services. (Affects less than 1 in 1000 people)
superdogg
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:19 am      Reply with quote
I just a facial roll after applying emla... AND WOW....i did a good aggressive roll my face was dripping with bloood lol...Now my face very red I hope this goes down in next three days cause will be back at work... The first time i roll I didn't have as much blood, no emla
foxe
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:23 am      Reply with quote
mishey - that's great to hear about your success with your arms and chest

can I ask if you roll your arms by yourself? How do you do it - can you go into detail? are you only doing the inside of the elbow or do you also do the underside of the upper arm?

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Mishey
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:51 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks superdogg and foxe.

The improvements came on slowly. It's winter here in Australia, so I've been in jumpers and jackets for 3 solid months so I really haven't paid any attention to my arms. We have Perth fashion week on at the moment and I went to a fashion show. I wore a gorgeous dress that's sleeveless and that's when I really noticed my arms. And the next morning I noticed my chest. So I'd say it's rather slow improvements.

Yes I did my arms myself foxe. I used emla and wrapped in sections so I could remove just one section, clean it up and roll while leaving the other sections wrapped. I found that the emla wore off too quick if I unwrapped the lot. I did the usual 10 strokes in a star pattern and did the entire upper arm, inner and outer. When doing the underarm area I lifted my arm up and rolled. A little difficult especially rolling with my left hand, so I took it slowly. As I said, I could take it slowly as I left the rest of my arm covered with the wrap.

Foxe you've been rolling for a while yourself haven't you? How's things coming along?
faeriedust
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:16 am      Reply with quote
I did my second roll with a 1.0mm and I noticed a little blood this time. I could roll without numbing. I must have high tolerance for pain. But I doubt I'll be trying 1.5mm anytime soon.

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mb935
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:28 am      Reply with quote
I just wanted to say that my earlier posts about emla cream were wrong - I just didnt leave it on long enough or cover with saran wrap. It was weird that I didnt feel the numbing until I took the plastic off. It was almost shocking to feel so numb.

My last roll was a few weeks ago and for the first time cant wait to roll again. (I had been using only bactine and ice with a 2.0).

I will agree that the effects dont last long at all. But what a huge difference. I personally dont get the grams in terms of what that means applying to the face - but I just do one side of hte face one night and the other the next...
superdogg
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:07 am      Reply with quote
I do all the face at once... I use like maybe 3 grams and put a saran wrap and cut of holes for my eyes and nose mouth. Look like a right alien lol...I am still red from the roll yesterday... it was very agressive cos i didn't feel a thing but. it like when you roll, the more skin you cover, the more the numbness dies but deffo worth it. I can't wait to see the results!
cloudpuff_2007
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:15 am      Reply with quote
I need advice. I have pitted scars on my face from acne and chicken pox and I would like to start dermarolling to reduce or possibly get rid of these scars entirely. I plan on purchasing the 1.5mm dermaroller but what creams/things should i be putting on my face to increase the results? Copper peptides? Vitamin C Serum? Where can i buy these things?I plan on getting EMLA cream to help with more aggressive rolls, but where do you all purchase this? And how often should I be rolling? Thank you!
jen46
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:32 am      Reply with quote
I searched for a few hours, but didn't find what I needed answered.

I am 46 years old and have lost quite a bit of fat in my face. I am looking so old with crowsfeet, nasiofold lines, loss of fat in temples and chin. Also my neck and hands look very old. I have been using Retin-A for a couple of years, but really can't tell it has helped at all.

What size dermaroller do I need and what routine? Do you only roll once a week for 6 weeks and then wait the 3 months to see improvements? Do I need to use Vitamin C? What other creams or serums do I need to add? What about supplements?

Please help me get on the right track. I don't even recognize the face that I now see in the mirror.

Thanks,
Jen
superdogg
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:33 am      Reply with quote
cloudpuff_2007 you can buy emla from many diffrent sources on the internet, even your own pharmacy. Look Vit a, vit c, copper peptides good for the skin. Read first posts in this thread and you will get more details.

1 agressive roll every 4 to six weeks is enough...apparently... their websites say roll everyday but that can damage the skin...

jen46 I assume your 46 ...if you are loosing fat in face have you thought about hormone treatment?
AS for rolls, 1 agressive roll 4 to 6 weeks. For cream using a vit c, Vit a cream...even copper peptides...Also try a TCA peel you can buy then from ebay start with a 12.5% but dont do in same week as a agressive roll. Take a multi vitamin + Vit c + zinc... Read start of this thread for more info
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