DermaRoller
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free skin care · Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:12 am

DermaBoy wrote:

Tonia wrote:

Janaswede, you can't roll 5 times a week with the 1.5 or the 1mm. It's too rough on your skin. You can only roll daily (or more than once a week) with a .25 or less. You should not use the longer needles like 1 or 1.5 more than once a month. ................................................ If you roll too frequently, you will interrupt the process and the collagen will never be able to develop. .....................................................................

Tonia where did you come up with this information? How do you know that rolling frequently will interrupt collagen rebuilding process? Believe me Tonia, the skin is tough. It's supposed to be. IT HAS TO BE. The next person that says "Ohhh Derma rolling frequently with a 1.5 mm is bad and will stop collagen production!!"...... Please explain why rolling frequently will interrupt the production of collagen and also do you have proof or experience of this?

I'm actually keeping a detailed record of my rolling experience which I will share once I have completed my derma rolling. I use a 1.5 mm roller and I roll once a week for my acne scars. I use a pretty good amount of pressure so there is definitely bleeding. However I am not rolling aggressively because I am rolling so frequently. I've rolled 6 times so far I am seeing little improvement. I read from experienced people that it takes at least 30 sessions to see results. I look at my scars through different shades of lights and mirrors from angles that you can only imagine. This means that I am paying close attention to my scars. I will keep everyone posted about my rolling experience.

This is insane. I've read this whole thread and not one single person can give a final conclusion about derma rolling for acne scars. NOT ONE PERSON can share us their experiences with derma rolling and the results they achieved. Why? Where are these people with successful results using the derma roller for their scars? Have any of you used the derma roller long and consistent enough to see results on acne scars? All i see is quitters and people who want to believe. It's not enough. Someone please share your results with us!

OMG! You will not find ANYONE that would advocate the intensity and frequency of your rolls. Nonstop inflammation doesn't allow for the healing cascade to occur...which is the very purpose of rolling in the first place. You are probably doing more damage than good to your skin.

Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:13 am

well said mountaingirl...i use a 1.5 roller every 4/6 weeks thats plenty.

Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:33 am

I wanted to take it slow by only rolling with a 0.2mm for product penetration but now I'm reading about micro inflammation causing skin to be worse long term... can anyone shed some light on this?

I'm really eager to start but hearing this kind of puts me off...

free skin care · Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:20 am

The difference between a 0.2 and a 1.0 in terms of injuring the skin is lightyears apart. With the one you have, it really is just for product penetration. I'd be more careful what you're putting on the skin after your roll that could cause inflammation in the skin rather than the roll itself.

Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:06 pm

Quote:

OMG! You will not find ANYONE that would advocate the intensity and frequency of your rolls. Nonstop inflammation doesn't allow for the healing cascade to occur...which is the very purpose of rolling in the first place. You are probably doing more damage than good to your skin.

Inflammation doesn't last that long. For me inflammation lasts about 4-5 days. I roll once a week with a 1.5 mm for acne scars and all i can say is that am seeing improvement. My skin is NOT under constant inflammation. If anyone has any proof or experience with side effects with rolling once a week then please speak up. Other than that I refuse to believe people's assumptions about how bad rolling once a week with a 1.5 mm can be.

There are these videos of youtube of a young asian man who did 32 rolling sessions with a 1.5 mm roller once a week and his scars are almost gone in less than a year. He recorded all his sessions.

For the people who roll once 4-6 weeks, that's fine. But in my experience I am already seeing improvement with my once a week schedule. And no I am not blinded by inflammation. My scars will "reappear" after inflammation but now i can see that I am seeing results.

I also plan on doing about 30 sessions, so in a couple months i will be forever done with rolling.

Good luck for all the people who roll every 4-6 weeks, you'll definitely get there!! Eventually

Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:45 am

Hi, I have been researching this forum and others (including owndoc) for a few weeks and the information available seems to indicate that the collagen production/tissue remodelling process after a 1.5mm roll takes about 3 months. I'm wondering then why most people who roll with a 1.5 roller do so more than once every three months, the general consensus is about once a month for this length (although I saw a recent bethany post saying she has changed her protocol to one roll every 3/4 months).
Does anyone think the results would be better with the longer recovery period inbetween, as rolling once a month would interrupt the healing process (which is not completed in just a month)

I would appreciate any of your thoughts on this.

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:17 am

Does anyone know how long after rolling with a 1.5 you can use a peel? I fidn that it removes the dry flakes that can appear 3-4 days after rooling, but I dont want to interrupt the creation of new collagen?

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:47 am

DermaBoy wrote:

Inflammation doesn't last that long. For me inflammation lasts about 4-5 days. My skin is NOT under constant inflammation.

The inflammation being talking about is not obvious to naked eye. It is the micro-inflammation at the cellular level that is the issue.

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:19 am

Rileygirl, exactly!!!! The redness, the swelling, the visable inflammation subsides within a few days...it's the injury your created at a deeper level that is trying to heal. If you are constantly going back in within one week of a 1.5 roll you are now creating more injury to the stuff you just injured. How does that ever heal and make more collagan?

On a happy note for me, I rolled a week ago with my 1.0 and only had minimal dryness, not much flaking so I'm a happy girl. That's one of the reasons I stopped rolling, the skin would always get really funky and I always had something going on that interfered with my roll so I'd keep putting it off. I'm rolling every 5 weeks from now on, so hopefully I get this lucky every time. I rolled agressively and had lots of pin point bleeding so I know it was a good roll.

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:27 am

Britmicro...I would go by what you read in the protocols as to what is appropriate for the length of needle (time between rolls). I went from a .05 to a 1.0 and wow, there is huge difference in the length of the needle. Can't imagine what a 1.5 is like and I would think a longer recovery time is needed beyond the 5 weeks for the 1.0.

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:34 am

Sidmo, what kind of peel are you talking about? Strength? I think there are better ways to remove the flakies you get than using a peel right away after a roll (Clarisonic Brush is great for this). Depending on the acid you're using and the strength, it is another micro-injury to the skin, but definately not at the same level as a roll.

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:53 am

This is more for people who are just starting to think about rolling:

Maybe visible inflammation lasts 4-5 days, but that doesn't mean actual inflammation lasts that long. People have this idea of skin as being really tough so they justify pushing it to its outer limits. I think this is fool-hardy, and it will show it 5-10-10 years time. Skin battles external and internal factors every second of every day, so shouldn't we instead nurture it and treat it gently instead of scrubbing, tugging and beating it up until it looks good enough?

I think the "I don't see any harm right now so it must be all right" argument is pretty delusional. It sounds a lot like those people who tan all willy-nilly and think a healthy glow is beneficial because look how nice my skin looks! Dermarolling and induced inflammation as means of healing aren't exactly well-researched so I would think that a cautionary approach would be embraced. I mean, you're using this method to get rid of skin imperfections, so why take the chance of getting more problems?

Imperfections take years to accumulate, so I don't know why people expect to get rid of them in a short amount of time. It's like gaining 100 pounds over 10 years and then expecting to lose all of it in 3 months.

Lastly, I think the roller is getting the least bang for your buck when it comes to getting rid of anything (acne scars, pigmentation, stretch marks, etc). You really have to press hard on it, harder than most people do probably, to get the same results as a needle or derma stamp. My rolled area was "inflamed" for maybe 2 days with minor bloods. After needling, the area was visibly inflamed for about 8-10 days, and the improvement is more significant. Dermastamp is better because it has 35 needles, so it cuts down on treatment time. I mean, I think the roller is good, but it will probably take maybe three times as long to see the same results as from needling simply because it's not as intensive.

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:07 am

DermaBoy wrote:

Tonia where did you come up with this information? How do you know that rolling frequently will interrupt collagen rebuilding process? Believe me Tonia, the skin is tough. It's supposed to be. IT HAS TO BE. The next person that says "Ohhh Derma rolling frequently with a 1.5 mm is bad and will stop collagen production!!"...... Please explain why rolling frequently will interrupt the production of collagen and also do you have proof or experience of this?

I'm actually keeping a detailed record of my rolling experience which I will share once I have completed my derma rolling. I use a 1.5 mm roller and I roll once a week for my acne scars. I use a pretty good amount of pressure so there is definitely bleeding. However I am not rolling aggressively because I am rolling so frequently. I've rolled 6 times so far I am seeing little improvement. I read from experienced people that it takes at least 30 sessions to see results. I look at my scars through different shades of lights and mirrors from angles that you can only imagine. This means that I am paying close attention to my scars. I will keep everyone posted about my rolling experience.

This is insane. I've read this whole thread and not one single person can give a final conclusion about derma rolling for acne scars. NOT ONE PERSON can share us their experiences with derma rolling and the results they achieved. Why? Where are these people with successful results using the derma roller for their scars? Have any of you used the derma roller long and consistent enough to see results on acne scars? All i see is quitters and people who want to believe. It's not enough. Someone please share your results with us!

My you are a little charmer! Thriving and surviving are not one and the same. If you had bothered to research corneobiology and corneotherapy, the healing cascade, the role of low grade, chronic inflammation in skin ageing, other dermatological complaints (acne, dermatitis etc) and a whole host of degenerative medical conditions you would understand why frequent microneedling with a 1mm or 1.5mm is foolhardy.

To get you started
http://www.math.pitt.edu/~cbsg/Materials/Wound_Healing_Overview.pdf
http://www.abme.com.br/pdfs/Dermaroller/maxilofacial.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2011.00644.x/full
Those articles are fully referenced; following those up plus a literature search on Google Scholar and PubMed should keep you occupied for a couple of months.

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:53 pm

britmicro wrote:

Hi, I have been researching this forum and others (including owndoc) for a few weeks and the information available seems to indicate that the collagen production/tissue remodelling process after a 1.5mm roll takes about 3 months. I'm wondering then why most people who roll with a 1.5 roller do so more than once every three months, the general consensus is about once a month for this length (although I saw a recent bethany post saying she has changed her protocol to one roll every 3/4 months).
Does anyone think the results would be better with the longer recovery period inbetween, as rolling once a month would interrupt the healing process (which is not completed in just a month)

I would appreciate any of your thoughts on this.

Yes, I think the results will be better with more time between rolls. The whole purpose of rolling is to give your skin time to "remodel." While inflammation "looks" good, because it puffs up the skin, it takes time for the rejuvenation process to occur. Patience is the key. Think of a wound you might get skinning your knee. The skin will repair itself over time, but not if you keep picking at it and disturbing it. You want to protect it, feed it whatever nutrients could speed the healing, and let it be! My take is that the people who are rolling once a month or more frequently, are just ignoring the research and flying by the seat of their pants and thinking MORE MEANS BETTER. Brick wall

Stick with the research and give it time...

free skin care · Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:45 pm

DermaBoy- I've been pretty open on this forum with my success with acne scars and dermarolling. Not sure why you think no one has achieved anything with this. For me, CPs were the key to it all, and I've posted this on that thread. Here's the gist of it if you aren't interested in reading any other threads.

I used SuperCop x2 CPs and retin A in conjuntion with a .2 and .5 dermaroller, alternating. SuperCop makes it very very raw and itchy. I back off and let it heal completely after a while, its too raw looking to plow right through, I have a job where I have to see people so lets be realistic.

I'm also of the thought that constant inflamation is a very bad thing. Different schools of thought. I saw results in about 6 months, rolling only a couple times a month, with results I was happy with in around a year.

Did nothing for my keloid on my chin, only the boxcar scars on my forehead and cheeks. I still have one on my cheek that remains, but I can only see it in a certain light so I don't care about it. I roll sporadically with a serum now and then, but nothing regularly.

Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:04 am

Thank you for your responses. After reading some of these responses I'm starting to lean towards taking a longer break between rolling sessions with a 1.5 mm roller.

I've been doing it once a week because I was too anxious to see results. I wasn't exactly sure if derma rolling worked so now that I know I am seeing improvement in my scars after 8 sessions in 3 months (which is quite a bit i know) I will definitely slow down the pace.

free skin care · Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:10 pm

DermaBoy wrote:

Thank you for your responses. After reading some of these responses I'm starting to lean towards taking a longer break between rolling sessions with a 1.5 mm roller.

I've been doing it once a week because I was too anxious to see results. I wasn't exactly sure if derma rolling worked so now that I know I am seeing improvement in my scars after 8 sessions in 3 months (which is quite a bit i know) I will definitely slow down the pace.

I'm impressed with you DB! Instead of standing your ground, you are showing that you are really open minded enough to consider the "other side." I really think it will serve you well by giving your skin some extra healing time.
Good luck with it.

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:38 am

I was trying to buy a derma roller and received this email from the web administrators:

"We regret to inform you that White Lotus Anti Aging will no longer be selling The Lotus Roller dermarollers directly to the public. This is due to our dermarollers being reclassified as disposable, single-use EU Medical devices."

Is this true? Will dermarollers be no longer sold to the general public?

What do you know about this new regulation?

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:24 am

Read what they wrote again. They've been classified as single-use, which is more appropriate for a doctor's office to prevent infection, than personal use.

You can buy a multi-use dermaroller from owndoc.com, which is where I got mine. You can also check out eBay, but I have no personal experience with that.

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:56 pm

Thanks, onmyboat. I misinterpreted the message Embarassed

free skin care · Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:23 pm

This is a very old thread, with lots of gems hidden amongst all the other information.

It's unfortunate that we don't have an FAQ, but I would suggest that folks use the sticky at the top of this section for helpful tips.

Some of the same questions come up over and over again.

I have written extensively on the subject of aftercare serums for dermarolling and inflammation and provided direct advice from Dr. Fernandes, one of the earliest PCI researchers and practitioners.

RS

free skin care · Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:25 pm

The subject of what to use and where to buy it from - for numbing creams seems to always change.

I would love to know where people are shopping for it now.

THanks, BFG

Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:09 pm

I just used a derma roller for the first time, and I don't know if it's because of my skin type, or I wasn't rolling hard enough, but my face hasn't turned red at all. I'm using a .5mm, and I do feel tingly all over my face, but that's about it. Should I roll harder, or is it normal that some people don't turn red?

free skin care · Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:26 pm

TekUmbra wrote:

I just used a derma roller for the first time, and I don't know if it's because of my skin type, or I wasn't rolling hard enough, but my face hasn't turned red at all. I'm using a .5mm, and I do feel tingly all over my face, but that's about it. Should I roll harder, or is it normal that some people don't turn red?

An 0.5mm is only for product penetration, the needles shouldn't penetrate much more than the dead stratus corneum so you aren't massively affecting healthy tissue so redness is not essential. Very different to 1-2mm where we are penetrating the living epidermis/ dermis. Are you pre-softening the skin to assist the roller and prevent needle blunting?

free skin care · Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:01 am

Firefox,

How do we pre-soften the skin and how does it help?

Thanks, bfg

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