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kareni
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Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:36 am      Reply with quote
Thanks KrazyKanuck - couldn't have asked better myself. Looking forward to a response from someone with more experience Smile
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Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:17 am      Reply with quote
I buy mine Here
Minimally Invasive Percutaneous Collagen Induction.

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Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:21 pm      Reply with quote
kareni, you are more than welcome. Smile

DragoN, what a coincidence, I just happened to check both of those links out earlier today (although not in this specific thread, I believe I found them in another thread here) and I must say I am very impressed. The one with all of the information in regard to collagen induction answered many of my questions and, as for the Vaughter Wellness (owndoc) site, the prices they offer on their products seem more than just a little reasonable. In addition, they have lots of detail added in regard to each product they sale to help with decision making so I am very happy about that.

Thank you for sharing those links, I really do believe they are just what I need to get myself started with dermarolling.

kareni, if you haven't done so yet, I suggest you check out the links DragoN posted, too, as you might find them just as helpful as I did (do).

Thanks again, DragoN, I cannot tell you how grateful I am.

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Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:55 pm      Reply with quote
Quote:
I can be a little impatient at times so I would be willing to give the longer ones a try "right from the start" if I felt they would give me better results faster.

You are correct about that. I will be getting some 3mm rollers shortly. I am not interested in half way when I can avoid it. 1.5 mm is unpleasant enough, fortunately only once every 5-6 weeks. May as well go the Full Monty on this one, shott term pain for long term gain.

Unlike the light systems for photo rejuvenation, Dermarolling/ skin needling doesn't carry the concomitant DNA mutagenic/ breakage effects along side. Which tends to equate to short term gain for long term sag. Pass on that 2 for 1 deal.

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DarkMoon
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Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:25 am      Reply with quote
DragoN wrote:
KrazyKanuck wrote:
I can be a little impatient at times so I would be willing to give the longer ones a try "right from the start" if I felt they would give me better results faster.

You are correct about that. I will be getting some 3mm rollers shortly. I am not interested in half way when I can avoid it. 1.5 mm is unpleasant enough, fortunately only once every 5-6 weeks. May as well go the Full Monty on this one, shott term pain for long term gain.

Unlike the light systems for photo rejuvenation, Dermarolling/ skin needling doesn't carry the concomitant DNA mutagenic/ breakage effects along side. Which tends to equate to short term gain for long term sag. Pass on that 2 for 1 deal.


According to Sarah Vaughter from owndoc.com

http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermarolling-explained/

With deep acne scars, 1.5 mm is often not enough and 2.5 mm is required, but this is impossible to do safely at home with a dermaroller. Therefore, we supply a single needle of the right specifications (0.25 mm diameter, long taper, gamma-sterilized) to be used for home needling.

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Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:55 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
DragoN wrote:
keliu wrote:
DragonN - you might want to do some reading of the sticky thread containing articles on dermarolling. The general consensus of opinion is that there is nothing gained by using anything longer than a 1.5mm roller - but there is a greater risk of damage (in a home-use situation).

Combating Photoaging with PCI

Minimally Invasive Percutaneous Collagen Induction


DragoN, here is a link to some of the other PCI studies/articles. There is some info posted on needle length just a few posts from the top of the thread.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860

Keliu wrote:
I think everyone is familiar with these articles by now - Dr. Fernandes is our skin rolling guru! But seriously, take a look at the photos in that article of rolling with a 3mm roller (which is done in a clinic under anaesthetic) do you really think you would be comfortable in tackling that at home? Plus, many of the articles state that there is no actual benefit from the extra length of needle penetration - similar results can be achieved with a 1.5mm roller.
Luminosity
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Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:37 pm      Reply with quote
Along those lines, I found it very interesting that Deb Crowley of FlexEffect says in her book: "Experiments show that even though fibroblast cells are all about wound repair, a cut or puncture produces less fibroblast activity than does stretching the skin." (p. 226)

In this case, she's describing cross stretching.

I can say this... since being more faithful to the face exercises and cross stretching, I am seeing some very nice results. At some point I may add in 1.5 mm needling but for now I'm not sure it's necessary...

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:10 am      Reply with quote
What is everyone doing post rolling? I've read so many posts but they all talk about other things. I have the slightest idea what to do after rolling. Avoid sun for x amount of days, use some topical creams... but what is everyone using and how?
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:46 am      Reply with quote
jephrolling wrote:
What is everyone doing post rolling? I've read so many posts but they all talk about other things. I have the slightest idea what to do after rolling. Avoid sun for x amount of days, use some topical creams... but what is everyone using and how?



This is from owndoc site:

Dermarolling after-care
If you roll with 0.5 mm needles or shorter, no special after care is needed.

If you roll with needles longer than 0.5 mm, the skin will turn red (like sunburn), sensitive and might get slightly swollen for several hours. Keep the area moist. For the first couple of days, the best choice is to cover the area with a very thin layer of an occlusive ointment that contains vit. A. and D. Do not expose the rolled areas to the sun for several days and thereafter, use a sunscreen lotion with a high protective factor. Wait two or three days with applying makeup as well.

The rolled area might start “peeling” after some days. Don’t pick at the loose skin.
Collagen production is a very slow process and it can’t be rushed. Do not expect miracles too soon. It can take up to 10 months to get substantial results.

http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermarolling-explained/

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eileenkenney
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Wed May 02, 2012 2:33 pm      Reply with quote
Hi roller girls! I'm getting ready to buy a dermaroller from Sarah Vaughter's website and trying to figure out which one to get. The texture of my skin is not bad (I've previously had some laser treatments), but I have a few deep stubborn wrinkles I want to target with a dermaroller (between the eyes & on the forehead. I also have some nasolabial lines forming (not sure if dermarolling will helps with those?). I was going to get a 1.5 mm, as that seems a good starting place for wrinkles, but my main question is should I get a 3-liner or the standard size (or both)? I wasn't sure if the standard size would be too big for between the eyebrows? Should I just focus on the wrinkles, or does it help to stimulate collagen in surrounding skin to smooth the wrinkle? Does dermarolling help with NL lines...should I get a standard size and roll my whole cheek area for this? Does anyone feel there is a difference in quality from OwnDoc rollers and Dr. Rollers? Sorry for the endless questions - I am new at this and any input would be much appreciated!

Eileen

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Frodo
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Wed May 02, 2012 8:22 pm      Reply with quote
I have a question and just really do not have the energy to read 4577 posts to find the answer. (Just my luck it's probably in the first few).

Does one roll before putting the product on or after? I want to use it with the Cellese Serum. TIA

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doodles
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Wed May 02, 2012 10:19 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Frodo, I asked Dr J and he said to apply the Cellese serum a half an hour after you roll. Hope that helps. Doodles

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Wed May 02, 2012 10:46 pm      Reply with quote
eileenkenney wrote:
Hi roller girls! I'm getting ready to buy a dermaroller from Sarah Vaughter's website and trying to figure out which one to get. The texture of my skin is not bad (I've previously had some laser treatments), but I have a few deep stubborn wrinkles I want to target with a dermaroller (between the eyes & on the forehead. I also have some nasolabial lines forming (not sure if dermarolling will helps with those?). I was going to get a 1.5 mm, as that seems a good starting place for wrinkles, but my main question is should I get a 3-liner or the standard size (or both)? I wasn't sure if the standard size would be too big for between the eyebrows? Should I just focus on the wrinkles, or does it help to stimulate collagen in surrounding skin to smooth the wrinkle? Does dermarolling help with NL lines...should I get a standard size and roll my whole cheek area for this? Does anyone feel there is a difference in quality from OwnDoc rollers and Dr. Rollers? Sorry for the endless questions - I am new at this and any input would be much appreciated!

Eileen

Hi Eileen, I use my standard size 1.5 between my brows and above my upper lip. I have a 1mm 3 line and have used it in the past in those 2 areas and I find it hurts more than the 1.5mm. I am going to do another roll in a few days and try the 1mm again although if it hurts too bad I'll just go back to the 1.5mm. I would roll my whole face as it's good for collagen production wherever you use it. I am 46 and feel that the use of the dermaroller has taken a few years off of my looks. It has helped with firming, eliminating some wrinkles and softening others and with diminishing scars. I roll pretty aggressively using Emla cream for numbing and it takes 5 - 6 days for my skin to look normal again - though I can been seen in public after a couple of days. I start using my Retin A 24 hours after I roll and my Vit C about 48 hours after. This time I will be using the Cellese serum after I roll. I roll every 6 to 8 weeks. I only use the Dr. Roller brand and have been very happy with them so I can't comment on the Owndoc roller. Good luck! Doodles Very Happy

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eileenkenney
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Thu May 03, 2012 11:52 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for the reply, Doodles. I'll get the 1.5 mm standard size then. I might end up getting a smaller size for product penetration, too. Just scared of doing too much too soon. I've been reading about dermarolling for at least 2 months now, and I think I'm finally going to start trying it! This forum has been a wealth of knowledge Smile

Eileen

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pleiades
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Thu May 03, 2012 5:04 pm      Reply with quote
Not sure if this has been posted before:
http://www.dermarollerneedles.com/product_index.php?pid=372&products=led%20photon%20derma%20roller%20titanium%20micro%20needle%204%20colors

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Fri May 04, 2012 5:55 am      Reply with quote
doodles wrote:
Hi Frodo, I asked Dr J and he said to apply the Cellese serum a half an hour after you roll. Hope that helps. Doodles


Thank you, and I do remember that on the Cellese thread and forgot about it.

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Sun May 06, 2012 12:03 pm      Reply with quote
I almost feel like I should apologize for posting on dermarolling in this thread, since it's been somewhat taken over by the (indeed interesting) discussion on LED above Smile

I did my first facial 1.5 mm dermaroll two days ago, and boy, do I have the uglies now Shock. Bruises on the upper eye area that can't be totally covered by concealer, pinpoint red marks across the ridge of the nose and the lower forehead, angry red crepey patches on the cheekbones and everything topped off with dry and peeling skin all over my face. Plus I have gotten a very nasty infected dimple right on the cheek, though I'm assuming that's unrelated to the roll.

Not only will I have to go back into work tomorrow, I even have an important session with a bunch of clients - the more to see my ragged face, the merrier, I guess Rolling Eyes.

All in all I would advise any first timers with the "big" needles to plan for more than two days of downtime!
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Sun May 06, 2012 1:31 pm      Reply with quote
CPHgirl- you're just getting the thread back on the right track, no worries

Quote:
I almost feel like I should apologize for posting on dermarolling in this thread, since it's been somewhat taken over by the (indeed interesting) discussion on LED above


Oh you poor girl - so sorry to hear about your wreak heading into work tomorrow. Can you claim 'sunburn'?

Quote:
I did my first facial 1.5 mm dermaroll two days ago, and boy, do I have the uglies now . Bruises on the upper eye area that can't be totally covered by concealer, pinpoint red marks across the ridge of the nose and the lower forehead, angry red crepey patches on the cheekbones and everything topped off with dry and peeling skin all over my face. Plus I have gotten a very nasty infected dimple right on the cheek, though I'm assuming that's unrelated to the roll.

Not only will I have to go back into work tomorrow, I even have an important session with a bunch of clients - the more to see my ragged face, the merrier, I guess .

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Sun May 06, 2012 8:21 pm      Reply with quote
Quote:
All in all I would advise any first timers with the "big" needles to plan for more than two days of downtime!

Agree.
Roll Friday night, so Monday I am looking human. Skin is still sensitive, but bearable.

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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO
havana8
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Mon May 07, 2012 9:16 am      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
There is a thread around here somewhere discussing Infrared Light/Radiation; maybe you (or a mod) can move your posts and continue this discussion there?


Hi all, We have moved the IR/LED discussion as requested to what I hope is the thread Lacy was referring to. Smile Here is the link:

Infrared Radiation - LED Lights
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35559
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Mon May 07, 2012 9:15 pm      Reply with quote
Has anyone tried Dermastam:
http://shop.owndoc.com/p-180/dermastamp15.html Question

Is it less painful? Does it cause less epidermal damage than a rolling device and hence less bleeding?

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Tue May 08, 2012 12:21 pm      Reply with quote
Two things:

(1) Does anyone have the reference to how long the channels stay open after a deep roll? I keep reading various responses.

(2) The owndoc website reviewed a device resembling the Dermapen (not the same brand, could be the one from Bellaire)...review was negative. Interesting.

BFG
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Tue May 08, 2012 4:03 pm      Reply with quote
RussianSunshine wrote:
Has anyone tried Dermastam:
http://shop.owndoc.com/p-180/dermastamp15.html Question

Is it less painful? Does it cause less epidermal damage than a rolling device and hence less bleeding?


I don't know if this will help but I have tried the OwnDoc 1.5mm three line roller for small areas. It is less painful than my full size 1mm roller; presumably because it has fewer pins. I have used it for extra help on the elevens, nasolabials and a couple of small chickenpox scars. I don't use anaesthetic cream BTW. I probably get the same amount of bleeding per pinprick as the regular roller. I chosen the roller over the stamp because I figured momentum would keep me going, whereas with the stamp it would be more stop-start IYSWIM.

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Tue May 08, 2012 4:28 pm      Reply with quote
BFG, but the Dermapen reminds me of Dermastamp. The only difference is that Dermapen is motorized and has needles of different lengths.
Or am I missing something?


Barefootgirl wrote:
Two things:

(1) Does anyone have the reference to how long the channels stay open after a deep roll? I keep reading various responses.

(2) The owndoc website reviewed a device resembling the Dermapen (not the same brand, could be the one from Bellaire)...review was negative. Interesting.

BFG

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Tue May 08, 2012 4:36 pm      Reply with quote
Firefox7275, this clip (http://www.youtube.com/user/dermaPen?v=29bWwHzl1ec (see 1:47)) makes me think twice about a roller. It seems to cause much more damage than needed through the rolling action.

Firefox7275 wrote:
RussianSunshine wrote:
Has anyone tried Dermastam:
http://shop.owndoc.com/p-180/dermastamp15.html Question

Is it less painful? Does it cause less epidermal damage than a rolling device and hence less bleeding?


I don't know if this will help but I have tried the OwnDoc 1.5mm three line roller for small areas. It is less painful than my full size 1mm roller; presumably because it has fewer pins. I have used it for extra help on the elevens, nasolabials and a couple of small chickenpox scars. I don't use anaesthetic cream BTW. I probably get the same amount of bleeding per pinprick as the regular roller. I chosen the roller over the stamp because I figured momentum would keep me going, whereas with the stamp it would be more stop-start IYSWIM.

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