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DermaRoller

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erg
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Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:24 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
erg wrote:
yea, 1 mm is max for me too.
Unless a professional was doing it... although, surprisingly no derms/spas around here offers it!!

Smile


That is strange in a way, I was checking a few for pricing on the Vampire Facelift close to me and many (most) offered needling! Maybe it is where the demand is? Wink


Good to know! I guess I will expand my search beyond coastal carolinas!!!

Laughing

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Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:27 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu

I probably doesnt fit as best practice, but as far as I remember the book says you can were mineral make up the next day. Anyway 5 days is a hell of a long time with No makeup Id scare the neighbours Bad Grin

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DarkMoon
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Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:53 pm      Reply with quote
erg wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
erg wrote:
yea, 1 mm is max for me too.
Unless a professional was doing it... although, surprisingly no derms/spas around here offers it!!

Smile


That is strange in a way, I was checking a few for pricing on the Vampire Facelift close to me and many (most) offered needling! Maybe it is where the demand is? Wink


Good to know! I guess I will expand my search beyond coastal carolinas!!!

Laughing


LOL. I would guess next to California south Florida has about as many PS and derms as you could hope to find! Laughing

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Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:47 am      Reply with quote
I've been reading till my bloody eyes are crossed, and now I'm more confused than ever..Confused

If/when you roll for product penetration, do you apply the product then roll? Or roll, then apply the product?

See, I told ya'll I'm completely confused.. So confused in fact, I'm even in the wrong bloody thread.. Embarassed

Argh!
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Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:55 am      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:
I've been reading till my bloody eyes are crossed, and now I'm more confused than ever..Confused

If/when you roll for product penetration, do you apply the product then roll? Or roll, then apply the product?

See, I told ya'll I'm completely confused.. So confused in fact, I'm even in the wrong bloody thread.. Embarassed

Argh!


I've done both ways. For the first couple of times rolling, I would suggest putting them on afterwards to see how your skin reacts. Sometimes things that don't usually bother your skin can have a more dramatic impact with rolling. If it works well applying immediately after rolling, then you can apply first, then roll. You may need to clean your roller more afterwards to get the product goop off.

Personally, I like applying afterwards. Seems to be easier to roll on clean skin.
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Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:59 am      Reply with quote
Kassy

I think Shastagirl has it about right, Ive done both too , the only thing to remember though according to Setterfields book the channels are only open for about 10 to 15 mins, for the benefit of increased product penetration.

HTH

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Kassy_A
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Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:07 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks so much to both of you ♥ ♥ Very Happy

I'm reading a book (for the 2nd time) and want to concoct a DIY product to roll in.

What size roller would be best for frequent use do you think? .02?

I hope it's okay to ask here, I can't find the thread devoted to product penetration.
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Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:20 pm      Reply with quote
Kassy_A wrote:

What size roller would be best for frequent use do you think? .02?


A .2 or .3 can be used daily or every other day.

Used to be a .5 was recommended to be used twice a week. Now I see it's much less frequent. I can do a .5 once a week with no issues - I heal up by the next morning.

ETA: Here's the link on dermarolling for product penetration: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=36278&highlight=penetration
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Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:23 pm      Reply with quote
Hey kassy no probs,

According to (my bible) he says anything below .5mm can be used for product penetration, and can be done every day as a goal , I havnt done every day ,I use .25mm twice a week with the 1mm once a month.

He also says Cps can be used after, with Vit A,C E
serum, plus beta carotene.


He also likes photo modulation(LEDS) and using ultrasound/ionotophoresis Sorry my spelling is useless.

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Kassy_A
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Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:02 pm      Reply with quote
You guys are the best, thank you so much...♥ ♥ Very Happy
superdogg
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:55 am      Reply with quote
I haven't done rolling in like 2 years. I don't knwo how you guys deal with the pain. I used to use Emla but my body becomes immune to it, so just gave up.... Any new ways of avoiding the pain. For me, I stopped using 1.5 and moved up to 2mm cause thats when i saw results... but the pain
Stork
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:10 pm      Reply with quote
Hi there

What is the longest time to wait to apply moisturiser??

I would think the skin would heal up better if microchannels close first, and THEN applying the moisturiser?? Wouldn't skin have a harder time closing if there was moisturiser in the holes?

Not that worried about product penetration mine is more for slight acne scarring.
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Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:14 am      Reply with quote
Stork: The channels close within one hour to a few hours, depending which source you read, due to the inflammation and blood/ lymph escaping as you roll. However the skin is more sensitive/ irritated and the barrier is damaged for some time after that so IMO you are best only applying products from which each ingredient can/ should be absorbed. I wouldn't personally use a regular moisturiser. Even for acne scarring you want your post-roll actives to penetrate because these help control the healing process and normalise collagen deposition. Also what you apply right after the roll helps prevent water loss and infection, both of which are important for good healing.

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sherrybboyce
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Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:35 pm      Reply with quote
Hi I just had my first dermapen treatment as I'm finding the derma roller treatments i have been doing at home have not been helping my stretch marks.The derma pen is great the treatment is fast painless and the healing time is so much quicker.Im looking into getting a derma pen to use myself they are expensive but you can get cheaper ones from china.
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Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:30 pm      Reply with quote
sherrybboyce wrote:
Hi I just had my first dermapen treatment as I'm finding the derma roller treatments i have been doing at home have not been helping my stretch marks.The derma pen is great the treatment is fast painless and the healing time is so much quicker.Im looking into getting a derma pen to use myself they are expensive but you can get cheaper ones from china.


Hi Sherrybboyce-can you tell me just what you like about the Derma pen vs dermaroller. Also do the needles on the Derma pen "drag" on your skin as they come out of the the skin? Did you use any kind of numbing cream when you used the Derma pen or the dermaroller? Thanks

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sherrybboyce
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Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:45 pm      Reply with quote
Hi I got mine done at a skin clinic in sydney.The derma pen is very fast and I didn't feel a thing.The lady used numbing cream.I got my thighs bottom done for stretch marks large area took 30minutes.Was very red but all the redness was gone by the next day.The healing time is a lot faster.The derma pen is adjustable in needle depth so u can change it for different areas.There were no track marks or tearing of the skin like u can some times get with derma roller.
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Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:07 pm      Reply with quote
I'm interested in purchasing a Dermapen - but Owndoc gave a disappointing review of the Chinese version:

http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/derma-pen-review/

Sherry - if you come across one or purchase one that you like - please let us know.

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Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:46 pm      Reply with quote
sherrybboyce wrote:
Hi I got mine done at a skin clinic in sydney.The derma pen is very fast and I didn't feel a thing.The lady used numbing cream.I got my thighs bottom done for stretch marks large area took 30minutes.Was very red but all the redness was gone by the next day.The healing time is a lot faster.The derma pen is adjustable in needle depth so u can change it for different areas.There were no track marks or tearing of the skin like u can some times get with derma roller.


Thanks Sherrybboyce for your review. I am interested also like Keliu if you end up ordering a Derma pen please let us know where you get it and how you like it. Thanks.

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Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:48 am      Reply with quote
Firefox7275 wrote:
Stork: The channels close within one hour to a few hours, depending which source you read, due to the inflammation and blood/ lymph escaping as you roll. However the skin is more sensitive/ irritated and the barrier is damaged for some time after that so IMO you are best only applying products from which each ingredient can/ should be absorbed. I wouldn't personally use a regular moisturiser. Even for acne scarring you want your post-roll actives to penetrate because these help control the healing process and normalise collagen deposition. Also what you apply right after the roll helps prevent water loss and infection, both of which are important for good healing.


Thank you Firefox7275!!

Do you agree with the premise that it's best to wait for the microchannels to close before applying moisturisers???

I plan on using terproline, but hesitant to apply right after dermarolling, as the topicals are MUCH more penetrative, concerned about it getting into bloodstream. Esp with the ingredients in most topical products.

Thanks for your help and comments
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Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:06 am      Reply with quote
Stork wrote:
Firefox7275 wrote:
Stork: The channels close within one hour to a few hours, depending which source you read, due to the inflammation and blood/ lymph escaping as you roll. However the skin is more sensitive/ irritated and the barrier is damaged for some time after that so IMO you are best only applying products from which each ingredient can/ should be absorbed. I wouldn't personally use a regular moisturiser. Even for acne scarring you want your post-roll actives to penetrate because these help control the healing process and normalise collagen deposition. Also what you apply right after the roll helps prevent water loss and infection, both of which are important for good healing.


Thank you Firefox7275!!

Do you agree with the premise that it's best to wait for the microchannels to close before applying moisturisers???

I plan on using terproline, but hesitant to apply right after dermarolling, as the topicals are MUCH more penetrative, concerned about it getting into bloodstream. Esp with the ingredients in most topical products.

Thanks for your help and comments


No I don't agree: the premise is too general because moisturisers are a massive category. IMO consider ALL the ingredients in the moisturiser you are thinking of using, not just the actives. Many of the actives/ ingredients in products I use are edible and non-irritant, so I don't have to worry about where they end up in my body.

Is this the right Terproline product?
"AQUA (WATER), PPG-15 STEARYL ETHER, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, STEARETH-2, DIMETHICONE, GLYCERIN, STEARETH-21, CETEARYL ALCOHOL, STEARIC ACID, CETEARYL ETHYLHEXANOATE, MADECASSOSIDE, ACETYL GLUCOSAMINE, PEG-4 PROLINE LINOLENATE, HYDROLYZED FIBRONECTIN, SORBITOL, SACCHARIDE ISOMERATE, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, CERAMIDE 6 II, SODIUM HYALURONATE, PEG-4 PROLINE LINOLEATE, ASIATICOSIDE, GLYCINE SOJA PROTEIN (GLYCINE SOJA (SOYBEAN) PROTEIN), CERAMIDE 3, CHOLESTEROL, PHYTOSPHINGOSINE, CERAMIDE 1, CETEARYL GLUCOSIDE, BENZYL PCA, DISODIUM EDTA, SODIUM LAUROYL LACTYLATE, CARBOMER, SODIUM HYDROXIDE, PHENOXYETHANOL, XANTHAN GUM, BHT, PARFUM (FRAGRANCE)"
http://www.skinmed.co.uk/scarring/professional.php

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Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:54 am      Reply with quote
Yes, those are the ingredients that you posted. What is your opinion on it?


Sorry I just need to clarify. Do you see any harm or benefit, in waiting for the microchannels to close, (so waiting several hours) and then applying my topical???

Thank you so much for helpful advice, Firefox!
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Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:05 am      Reply with quote
Stork wrote:
Yes, those are the ingredients that you posted. What is your opinion on it?

Sorry I just need to clarify. Do you see any harm or benefit, in waiting for the microchannels to close, (so waiting several hours) and then applying my topical???

Thank you so much for helpful advice, Firefox!


As I stated earlier "Even for acne scarring you want your post-roll actives to penetrate because these help control the healing process and normalise collagen deposition. Also what you apply right after the roll helps prevent water loss and infection, both of which are important for good healing."
Several hours delay would mean the inflammatory process is in full swing.

TBH I'm not convinced the Terproline Professional would do much more for scarring than hydrate and plump the skin. I like the ingredients in red because they may help strengthen the skin barrier, many of the others I wouldn't want near my skin when it is irritated or permeable. Ingredients wise it reminds me of CeraVe but the $175 price tag is eye watering! If I was going to spend that, I'd take a punt on AnteAGE or first generation copper peptides.

"AQUA (WATER), PPG-15 STEARYL ETHER, PROPYLENE GLYCOL, STEARETH-2, DIMETHICONE, GLYCERIN, STEARETH-21, CETEARYL ALCOHOL, STEARIC ACID, CETEARYL ETHYLHEXANOATE, MADECASSOSIDE, ACETYL GLUCOSAMINE, PEG-4 PROLINE LINOLENATE, HYDROLYZED FIBRONECTIN, SORBITOL, SACCHARIDE ISOMERATE, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, CERAMIDE 6 II, SODIUM HYALURONATE, PEG-4 PROLINE LINOLEATE, ASIATICOSIDE, GLYCINE SOJA PROTEIN (GLYCINE SOJA (SOYBEAN) PROTEIN), CERAMIDE 3, CHOLESTEROL, PHYTOSPHINGOSINE, CERAMIDE 1, CETEARYL GLUCOSIDE, BENZYL PCA, DISODIUM EDTA, SODIUM LAUROYL LACTYLATE, CARBOMER, SODIUM HYDROXIDE, PHENOXYETHANOL, XANTHAN GUM, BHT, PARFUM (FRAGRANCE)"

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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim.
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Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:52 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone- I tried to do a search of the forum and for this question but couldn't find it:
how soon after a light pressure 1.5 mm roll could I resume facial exercises?

Thank you!

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Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:40 am      Reply with quote
Hi There Firefox

Sorry i have been offline past couple of days, with internet problems.

Inflammation is a necessary part of the healing/ collagen rebuilding process?

I recently got a scratch on my forehead, that broke the skin. Superficial scratch. I applied aloe vera gel from the plant, after about ten mins of the scratch occurring. it immediately soothed the cut, and stoppped the stinging, hence i assume, it stopped the inflammation process. Now I have a superficial scab on it. I think scab is a good part of the healing process. '

I have noticed with breakouts, when they have scabbed over (from me picking at them, I know bad! Sad they have always healed without a scar. Which stumps me, because I have heard from the 'experts' that a scab should be discouraged, to avoid scarring.

This has not been my experience

Could you pls comment on this???

I am still waiting on my prods from own doc, and will definitely report back once I have used it.

thank you so very much for your care and helpful advice, firefox

Have a great day,

Stork
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Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:07 am      Reply with quote
Neither situation is an all or nothing. No active or prescription medication entirely eliminates inflammation, there is a reduction only. A certain amount of acute (short term) inflammation is part of the natural healing cascade. Excessive inflammation or chronic (long term) inflammation is damaging to any tissue. I believe certain actives can basically leapfrog some of the inflammation, triggering collagen deposition by, say, increasing the activity of fibroblasts. Dermarolling harnesses the natural healing process, actives manipulates that process.

Using aloe vera as an example, just a few of the studies available
Influence of Aloe vera on collagen characteristics in healing dermal wounds in rats (1998)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9562243
Therapeutic effects of Aloe vera on cutaneous microcirculation and wound healing in second degree burn model in rats (2000)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10808702
Aloe Vera: A Short Review (2008)
Includes mechanism of actions for various properties and is full text.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763764/
Acemannan stimulates gingival fibroblast proliferation; expressions of keratinocyte growth factor-1, vascular endothelial growth factor, and type I collagen; and wound healing (2009)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19372635
Aloe vera: Nature's soothing healer to periodontal disease (2011)
Full text http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3200013/?tool=pubmed

Scabbing is higher risk for, not a guarantee of, scarring. This is related to how deep the wound needs to be to heal and how long the wound takes to close. But everyone is different, some of us scar more easily than others. Scabbing is not a desirable part of the healing process, that idea has long been outmoded. Scabs are there to protect against infection and water loss, the healing occurs in the soggy wet mess beneath. Research shows if you occlude the wound with certain types of dressing or ointment so keeping the wound wet it heals faster. Such an artificial scab sits above the natural surface of the skin, allowing the epidermis the opportunity to heal. A natural scab is partially above and partially below the surface of the skin meaning the wound will heal dermis up and close over at quite a late stage. That's a simplified explanation but hopefully it is good enough.

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