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DermaRoller

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EC413
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Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:44 pm      Reply with quote
Had good results with rolling with .75mm. Havent rolled in a while, but I just ordered a 2.00mm derma stamp for 2 scars. I think having a derma stamp is good because you can target areas that you really want to treat, instead of having to do your whole face. It's shipping from China, so I wont get it for weeks, but when I do I'll let you all know how the stamp works for me.

Anyone else ever use the stamp?
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Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:59 pm      Reply with quote
EC413 wrote:
Had good results with rolling with .75mm. Havent rolled in a while, but I just ordered a 2.00mm derma stamp for 2 scars. I think having a derma stamp is good because you can target areas that you really want to treat, instead of having to do your whole face. It's shipping from China, so I wont get it for weeks, but when I do I'll let you all know how the stamp works for me.

Anyone else ever use the stamp?


I posted a posts up about using a stamp.

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:36 am      Reply with quote
I was wondering if derma rolling puts holes in the skin, and Micro fractional lasers such as smartskin laser also does that with the laser, then would they pretty much give similar results? I would like to try derma rolling first if so, as its a lot cheaper!I need something for my under eye and cheek area, to tighten the skin a bit..
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Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:10 pm      Reply with quote
I finally got around to doing my first dermaroll with a 1.5mm. I was a little nervous because I built it up in head that it was going to be really painful. I did use EMLA cream (lots) and put cut up freezer bags over my face. I have to say it worked like a charm. I felt nothing and was able to roll really aggressively. I got LOTS of blood. I did take a couple of pictures I would be willing to post if someone wants to see them. This morning my face is a little pink but not really noticeable and there is no kind of pain when touched or putting products on.
I know everyone reacts differently and people have varing pain tolerances/skin etc. Your results may not be like mine. I am really happy I did the roll and won't be scared to do anymore in the future. Hopefully my skin will react positively to the rolls and build more collagen.

This was the routine I used

Wash face
Take shower
Clean face with alcohol pad
Put ELMA thickly on face
Put cut up freezer bags over sections of face. I used 4 pieces. 1 on forehead, 1 on each cheek and 1 over the chin nose area.
Leave on for 35 minutes
Take 1 section of plastic off at a time
Wipe ELMA off with tissue. Use another alcohol pad to clean area.
Roll. I started on the cheek and rolled in vertical lines from ear to outer corner of lips. Then went in horizontal and then X shape.
Wiped blood off with sterile wound pad soak with saline solution.
Start on the next section.
After I was finished I took a shower and washed my face with warm water.
Then put on Environ C-quence

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Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:18 pm      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
I finally got around to doing my first dermaroll with a 1.5mm. I was a little nervous because I built it up in head that it was going to be really painful. I did use EMLA cream (lots) and put cut up freezer bags over my face. I have to say it worked like a charm. I felt nothing and was able to roll really aggressively. I got LOTS of blood. I did take a couple of pictures I would be willing to post if someone wants to see them. This morning my face is a little pink but not really noticeable and there is no kind of pain when touched or putting products on.
I know everyone reacts differently and people have varing pain tolerances/skin etc. Your results may not be like mine. I am really happy I did the roll and won't be scared to do anymore in the future. Hopefully my skin will react positively to the rolls and build more collagen.

This was the routine I used

Wash face
Take shower
Clean face with alcohol pad
Put ELMA thickly on face
Put cut up freezer bags over sections of face. I used 4 pieces. 1 on forehead, 1 on each cheek and 1 over the chin nose area.
Leave on for 35 minutes
Take 1 section of plastic off at a time
Wipe ELMA off with tissue. Use another alcohol pad to clean area.
Roll. I started on the cheek and rolled in vertical lines from ear to outer corner of lips. Then went in horizontal and then X shape.
Wiped blood off with sterile wound pad soak with saline solution.
Start on the next section.
After I was finished I took a shower and washed my face with warm water.
Then put on Environ C-quence


Here are Cookie's very bloody pics:

Image

Image

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bethany
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Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:21 pm      Reply with quote
yassy wrote:
I was wondering if derma rolling puts holes in the skin, and Micro fractional lasers such as smartskin laser also does that with the laser, then would they pretty much give similar results? I would like to try derma rolling first if so, as its a lot cheaper!I need something for my under eye and cheek area, to tighten the skin a bit..


You are correct that they both create micro wounds in the skin.

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Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:45 pm      Reply with quote
Cookie D,
thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Greatly appreciated. I hope to attempt this sometime this spring.

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Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:07 pm      Reply with quote
OMG! these are bloody photos! now you deserve to see good results CookieD!
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Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:35 pm      Reply with quote
daler wrote:
OMG! these are bloody photos! now you deserve to see good results CookieD!


It's pretty funny because it hurt me just to look at Bethany's pictures but I was so happy I got so much blood when I rolled. The things we do for vanity. Laughing I didn't realize the pictures would come out so large but I have no idea what I'm doing with a camera.

Thanks erg. I hope you get good results if you end up doing it. I did do a couple of test spots with the EMLA the night before to check for how long and to what degree the numbness would be. (I didn't roll those spots just tested the cream) I do think overall I have very tough resilient skin and a fairly high tolerance for pain. I can highly recommend the ELMA cream if you want to go that route. I know some people roll without it and I might try that at a later date but for my first time, just from a mental aspect I didn't want to feel anything. I bought the cream off of Amazon. It came from Europe. I can look for the link to the buyer if you want me to.

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Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:42 pm      Reply with quote
Cookie, if you have the link that would be great.

I will definitely use a numbing agent.
Right now, I am waiting for my skin to adjust to my vitamin A serum (Osmosis). I can only use 3X per week without major irritation. So, I think once my skin is a bit "tougher" I am going to give this a try. I do the penetration rolls with GHK CPs now about 2X per week.

How often do you plan on doing a 1.5 roll?

thanks again!

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CookieD
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Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:47 pm      Reply with quote
Something I wanted to add. When I did my roll I don't think I got good penetration under my eye area even though I got blood and I used a 3 line roller. (I have no redness and it doesn't look like I even touched that area) I am going to order a Dermastamp and use that plus the a 3 line roller and see if this helps. Since this is my number 1 problem area.

I also am only going to use the roller 1 time and throw it away afterwards. With the amount of blood I am getting I am worried about sanitizing it. I do use the smaller rollers again and again but I am just being overly cautious. With the rollers being so cheap (relatively speaking) and only using one every 6 weeks I just budget it like I was buying a serum or cream for $30 that would last me 6 weeks. That way I don't feel as bad throwing away what looks like a perfectly fine gadget. I not saying anybody else should do this. Just telling you what I plan on doing.

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summer2004
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Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:22 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Cookie,

Good bleeding!

One question: did you use ReAura before the rolling?

I did not bleed when I rolled with 1mm roller.

Keliu said that one reason contributing to bleeding might be ReAura.
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Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:04 pm      Reply with quote
summer2004 wrote:
Hi Cookie,

Good bleeding!

One question: did you use ReAura before the rolling?

I did not bleed when I rolled with 1mm roller.

Keliu said that one reason contributing to bleeding might be ReAura.


Hi summer, My last treatment on my face with the ReAura was Nov. 17 so it was exactly 6 weeks ago. It was my second treatment series on my face. I am still doing other area on my body at this time with the ReAura but not my face.

I did use the 1.5 mm roller size. I don't know if that would cause more bleeding or not. I also keep my skin very well exfoliated because of my acne. I have read that some Doctors do a microdermabrasion treatment before rolling. I think that probably helps the needles penetrate as does a hot shower before hand. But the thing I think that helped the best was the numbing cream because I couldn't feel anything. I don't think I would have had the courage to roll my face for as long and as hard as I did with out it.

Also how many minutes are people rolling for? I know I rolled for over 30 minutes and probably closer to 45. I went back over areas I had cleaned and rerolled because my skin was still numb and I not sure how many times I am going to roll in the future and want to make sure I got as many holes in my skin as I could.

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Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:06 pm      Reply with quote
summer2004 wrote:
Hi Cookie,

Good bleeding!

One question: did you use ReAura before the rolling?

I did not bleed when I rolled with 1mm roller.

Keliu said that one reason contributing to bleeding might be ReAura.


Hi summer, My last treatment on my face with the ReAura was Nov. 17 so it was exactly 6 weeks ago. It was my second treatment series on my face. I am still doing other area on my body at this time with the ReAura but not my face.

I did use the 1.5 mm roller size. I don't know if that would cause more bleeding or not. I also keep my skin very well exfoliated because of my acne. I have read that some Doctors do a microdermabrasion treatment before rolling. I think that probably helps the needles penetrate as does a hot shower before hand. But the thing I think that helped the best was the numbing cream because I couldn't feel anything. I don't think I would have had the courage to roll my face for as long and as hard as I did with out it.

Also how many minutes are people rolling for? I know I rolled for over 30 minutes and probably closer to 45. I went back over areas I had cleaned and rerolled because my skin was still numb and I not sure how many times I am going to roll in the future and want to make sure I got as many holes in my skin as I could.

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Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:54 pm      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:


Also how many minutes are people rolling for? I know I rolled for over 30 minutes and probably closer to 45. I went back over areas I had cleaned and rerolled because my skin was still numb and I not sure how many times I am going to roll in the future and want to make sure I got as many holes in my skin as I could.


The correct protocol is to roll in a small star pattern, five times in each direction - horizontal, verical and oblique.

Did you use Emla as your numbing cream?

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Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:41 am      Reply with quote
If you rolled like Keliu suggested and what most people do, it should not take nearly 30-45 minutes.Seems like overkill to me. Takes me 5 minutes tops.
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Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:31 am      Reply with quote
I did use ELMA cream and did roll in a star pattern kind of. I did the shape but did it more like I would when I use the ReAura laser. In other words I started on my cheek and did horizontal lines from my ear to my outer lip. Then did vertical lines over that whole area and then and X shape over that whole area. So I ended up with a star pattern but it was one big star per area not a lot of little star on the same area. If this make sense.

My opinion is that if you are going to get put under anesthesia like Dr. F did with his patients he is going to roll on your face for a lot longer then 5 min. Now he was using longer needles so that has something to do with it also. I think that getting bloody might have a lot to do with the kind of results or lack of results people are getting. If I'm going to do it I'm really going to do it.

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Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:41 pm      Reply with quote
Pandax12 wrote:
If you rolled like Keliu suggested and what most people do, it should not take nearly 30-45 minutes.Seems like overkill to me. Takes me 5 minutes tops.


A cosmetic roll might only take five minutes. If you are going to do a proper medical roll, it will take longer than that. Also, like CookieD said, if you go through all this trouble you want to do it thoroughly.
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Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:27 am      Reply with quote
packratmack wrote:
Pandax12 wrote:
If you rolled like Keliu suggested and what most people do, it should not take nearly 30-45 minutes.Seems like overkill to me. Takes me 5 minutes tops.


A cosmetic roll might only take five minutes. If you are going to do a proper medical roll, it will take longer than that. Also, like CookieD said, if you go through all this trouble you want to do it thoroughly.


Takes me about 45 mins for a medical roll, including my face, neck, chest, and hands.

I just checked the dermarolling book and a penetration roll should be 5-10 mins. I did not see an amount of time mentioned for a professional roll.

FYI that Dr. S said that prior treatments with lasers, IPL, Thermage, etc. lessen the capillary network, and bleeding will be LESS. However, needling will help restore the capillary network over time.

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Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am      Reply with quote
packratmack wrote:
Pandax12 wrote:
If you rolled like Keliu suggested and what most people do, it should not take nearly 30-45 minutes.Seems like overkill to me. Takes me 5 minutes tops.


A cosmetic roll might only take five minutes. If you are going to do a proper medical roll, it will take longer than that. Also, like CookieD said, if you go through all this trouble you want to do it thoroughly.


I was referring to the face only in my comment. Whether done for product penetration or collagen induction, takes me the same time. Your rolling the same star pattern during each so not a big deal in time difference.
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Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:01 am      Reply with quote
Pandax12 wrote:
packratmack wrote:
Pandax12 wrote:
If you rolled like Keliu suggested and what most people do, it should not take nearly 30-45 minutes.Seems like overkill to me. Takes me 5 minutes tops.


A cosmetic roll might only take five minutes. If you are going to do a proper medical roll, it will take longer than that. Also, like CookieD said, if you go through all this trouble you want to do it thoroughly.


I was referring to the face only in my comment. Whether done for product penetration or collagen induction, takes me the same time. Your rolling the same star pattern during each so not a big deal in time difference.


Hi Pandax, Welcome to EDS. Can I ask how many medical rolls you have done, over what period of time and what kind of results that you've gotten?
Thanks.

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Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:54 am      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
Pandax12 wrote:
packratmack wrote:
Pandax12 wrote:
If you rolled like Keliu suggested and what most people do, it should not take nearly 30-45 minutes.Seems like overkill to me. Takes me 5 minutes tops.


A cosmetic roll might only take five minutes. If you are going to do a proper medical roll, it will take longer than that. Also, like CookieD said, if you go through all this trouble you want to do it thoroughly.


I was referring to the face only in my comment. Whether done for product penetration or collagen induction, takes me the same time. Your rolling the same star pattern during each so not a big deal in time difference.


Hi Pandax, Welcome to EDS. Can I ask how many medical rolls you have done, over what period of time and what kind of results that you've gotten?
Thanks.


Hi CookieD and thanks for the welcome. I've done 17 medical rolls since Aug. 2011
I try to wait at least 4 weeks between rolls although for the last few months I'm waiting 5-6 weeks. I also have used a single needle for some acne scars. I'm a 46 YO guy who's skin was in fantastic shape before I ever rolled so the only change I really see is the scar improvements. I just trust it's helping with the collagen etc. I'm gonna try a 2.0mm roller on my face next time since my skin is said to be thicker than a females..or not...lol
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Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:09 am      Reply with quote
The following info. was taken from a PDF on Barefacedtruthdotcom...scroll down to the bottom of the Derma rolling topic and you'll see it in the comment section from the doctor (first link)

Some thoughts on 1 mm needling
Patients do get better results on a
longer preparation with vitamins A
and C. We had some very interesting
news that may explain why patients
do better with Environ®product use.
Research being done at Hanover
University in Germany has shown that
simple application of Environ®creams
caused an up-regulation of growth
factors in the skin in a similar pattern
to needling. I like to keep patients
on Environ®for at least one to three
months before doing the needling.
The 1 mm needling is easy to do in
your consulting rooms. All you need
to use is a 4% to 6% tetracaine
anaesthetic mixture.
We find that we can needle an area
for about five minutes, so we do
small blocks of tissue. By about 40
minutes we have done the whole
face. Because one cannot get the
density of holes in one treatment
under local anaesthetic, we get the
patients to come back every week
or two for a total of six treatments.
Another exciting bit of information
is that research shows that there is
no evidence of the formation of scar
tissue. You can needle skin as many
times as it takes to get the desired result.
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Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:15 am      Reply with quote
Here he is doing the face in 40 minutes. And he has the patient come back once every week or two for 6 weeks. This goes against what we have been told is true as far as waiting times for longer needles. From what I've read in another article from him, I believe he is doing this to mimic 1 session of a 3mm roll. 6 sessions equaling (1) 3mm roll. I would never do this but just found it interesting.As many know, rolling is not an exact science yet.

I would love to see how much rolling is going on for 40 minutes. Shock
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Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:02 am      Reply with quote
Pandax12 wrote:
Here he is doing the face in 40 minutes. And he has the patient come back once every week or two for 6 weeks. This goes against what we have been told is true as far as waiting times for longer needles. From what I've read in another article from him, I believe he is doing this to mimic 1 session of a 3mm roll. 6 sessions equaling (1) 3mm roll. I would never do this but just found it interesting.As many know, rolling is not an exact science yet.

I would love to see how much rolling is going on for 40 minutes. Shock


Hi Pandax, thanks for answering my question. Below is comment about 6 treatments being equal or more then 1 treatment with the 3 mm. There is also the link to the PDF you were talking about.
In the PDF it also talks about Dr. F writing a paper and preparing histology slides specifically on the 1 mm needing. Has anyone seen this or have a link?

Also I still have questions about the rolling schedule. I wonder if anyone knows if Dr. F still believes if it is ok to do so many rolls so close together and then let your skin rest for 3 months. I think the idea about the amount of holes maybe correct but what about the ongoing inflammation. The 3 mm will cause a lot more inflammation at initially but I wouldn't think it could cause as much total inflammation as doing 6 rolls over a condensed period of time.

I know there was a PDF somewhere about ongoing inflammation. Does someone have a link to that that they can share? Thanks.


Dr. Fernandes is preparing histology slides specifically on 1 mm needling. Three
plastic surgeons (including Des) are writing a paper for a prestigious plastic surgery journal on this technique.

Des believes that with topical anesthesia alone one does not get the concentration of needle holes that we can get with needling done under full local anesthesia. However, each repeated treatment adds to the treatment before, and by the sixth treat- ment one has definitely gotten at least as many — and probably more — holes than after one heavy 3 mm needling We believe this will lead to better results.


http://www.dermaconcepts.com/documents/0000/0103/Articles_-_Environ_-_Micro_Needling.pdf

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