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Tiaraleeann
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Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:44 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you!

Would the penetration of my normal creams still be more than usual with using them the next day?
ellaelise
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Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:15 pm      Reply with quote
ShastaGirl, thank you so much for your replies and birthday wishes Smile

I'm not sure about a numbing cream yet- I probably will. Do you know where they're the least expensive?

I know that afterwars you're supposed to put Vit C, a Vit A/Retininoid or a Peptide serum on afterward, correct? Or am I mistaken? Would I be okay just using my Retin-A cream?

Can you recommend the best Vitamin C and Peptide products (even if I'm not supposed to use Peptides, this is a question I had anyway) to use afterward? I'm nervous about making my own Vitamin C serum since my skin seems to react to "natural" products for some reason??


Now I am going to sound stupid, but what do I apply beforehand? I thought I was just supposed to clean/tone/then numb if I have to? I promise I have read the forums! LOL!
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Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:17 pm      Reply with quote
ellaelise wrote:
ShastaGirl, thank you so much for your replies and birthday wishes Smile

I'm not sure about a numbing cream yet- I probably will. Do you know where they're the least expensive?

I know that afterwars you're supposed to put Vit C, a Vit A/Retininoid or a Peptide serum on afterward, correct? Or am I mistaken? Would I be okay just using my Retin-A cream?

Can you recommend the best Vitamin C and Peptide products (even if I'm not supposed to use Peptides, this is a question I had anyway) to use afterward? I'm nervous about making my own Vitamin C serum since my skin seems to react to "natural" products for some reason??


Now I am going to sound stupid, but what do I apply beforehand? I thought I was just supposed to clean/tone/then numb if I have to? I promise I have read the forums! LOL!


You might have already seen this, but the owndoc website has some good pre- and post-roll instructions. http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

I think the idea behind pre treating your skin with A and C is to get rid of some of the dead skin cells so the roller can penetrate better.

I'm not sure on the peptide serum. There might be some that are ok, I know the argireline is a peptide and I had a bad experience when applying that. Copper peptides may be ok. Maybe others can chime in regarding other peptides.

I've heard of a few people applying Retin A after rolling and having significant redness and flaking from it. You should start with something gentler and see how you react. This has had good feedback http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?infadolan-pid177.html (I'm not affiliated with owndoc, but find they are a good source of info and products).
ellaelise
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Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:42 pm      Reply with quote
I did, but I have to admit it was confusing for me.. there, they say to use the Retin-A BEFORE treatment... in the forums, she says to use it AFTER. But I think I have it figured out, and since I use Retin-A Micro anyway, I'm good Smile


ONE more question and I promise I'm done! You said owndoc's Vit C serum mixture is a little greasy/tacky... I have skin that is very reactive. Can you recommend another Vit C product for my oily/reactive skin? Either pre-made or one I have to mix myself. Thank you.

Actually crap! One more! Do you all use owndoc's Infadolan like owndoc recommends (she recs putting that on IMMEDIATELY after and then Retin-A a few days after and Vit C on the days you're not using Retin-A), or do you skip it/exchange it for another product? Thank you!

I just really don't want to break out. My skin is clear right now, but is QUICK to react to things it doesn't like, especially greasy, tacky, products that don't absorb- that's my new biggest concern.
ellaelise
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Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:43 pm      Reply with quote
Also ShastaGirl, thank you so much for your patience and helpfulness Smile. I'm a n00b to these sorts of DIY treatments so I want to make sure I make my skin BETTER, not worse.
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Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:01 am      Reply with quote
ellaelise, how did you make out? Let us know what you ended up buying and how it is working!

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ShastaGirl
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Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:23 am      Reply with quote
ellaelise wrote:
I did, but I have to admit it was confusing for me.. there, they say to use the Retin-A BEFORE treatment... in the forums, she says to use it AFTER. But I think I have it figured out, and since I use Retin-A Micro anyway, I'm good Smile


ONE more question and I promise I'm done! You said owndoc's Vit C serum mixture is a little greasy/tacky... I have skin that is very reactive. Can you recommend another Vit C product for my oily/reactive skin? Either pre-made or one I have to mix myself. Thank you.

Actually crap! One more! Do you all use owndoc's Infadolan like owndoc recommends (she recs putting that on IMMEDIATELY after and then Retin-A a few days after and Vit C on the days you're not using Retin-A), or do you skip it/exchange it for another product? Thank you!

I just really don't want to break out. My skin is clear right now, but is QUICK to react to things it doesn't like, especially greasy, tacky, products that don't absorb- that's my new biggest concern.


Just saw your questions...

The Infadolan is supposed to be greasy. I have never used it. I make a mix of my own post roll serum with oils my skin likes, retinyl acetate and Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (an oil based form of vit c).

For vit C serum, most people like Skinceuticals brand, but it's expensive! Cosmetic Skin Solutions supposedly has a similar formula, but I've not tried it. I make my own which is a variation of Kassy's C serum with jojoba. All of these have been extensively reviewed on EDS - you can search for them, if you've not already found something.

Let us know how what you've decided to use.
Bridge81
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Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:38 pm      Reply with quote
Wow! 198 pages! I can't possibly read all of that before bed! I'll chance my arm and ask my questions to you lovely people anyway! ( I read 4 pages, then realised it was from 2007!)
- Has anyone used dermaroller while on isotetrionoin 20 mg a day? I know I shouldn't - but I have such horrible scars I am using it and it is scary as I still have some active nodular cysts.
- I am using a 1.5 ml one - but I don't bleed, I worry that as I'm on isotetrinoin, it will be a disaster if I destroy the surface of my skin too much.
_ People have said my face looks younger? Is this dermarolling (once a week for one month) or could it be the low dose isotetrinoin? (6 months at 20 mg a day)
I was put on a low dose as the 40mg made my cysts flare up like tennis balls again. Sad I couldn't be treated for 9 months (pregnancy) and so the scars are monumental. I also now have a huge gape in my cheek (atrophy) from cortisone injections for the cysts during pregnancy. It is MASSIVE i've been desperately derma rolling it but it won't fill in. Sad I never had problem skin before until I fell prgnant then all hell broke lose. The derms said they have never seen a cystic nodular systematic DISEASE like it and took photos galore. I had to suffer it for 9 months and now, 6 months down the line I am still desperately trying to look normal. Scars are horrific and the atrophy hole is horrendous. I could show you before and after pics if you like. It is trully astonishing.

Thanks for any help in advance.
I've tried marigolds, t tree, cider vinegar, emu oil, vitamin e oil, vit d3, dandellion, argon oils, lemon juice, bio oil, and loads more. Ugghhr. It is so depressing.
xxx
ellaelise
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Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:46 pm      Reply with quote
Hi guys, this is what I decided to get both a 1.0 and a 1.5mm for my face until I decide which one I like better. I know that sounds like overkill but I went with the way less expensive options for now, plus I was reassured by a few members that they would work just as well. I think for now I'm going to use the 1.0mm, but if I decide in time I need more, I have it.

I also got a 2.0mm roller (for my stretch marks) and a small 2.0mm stamp (for the few pitted acne scars and my stretch marks). I actually wanted to get the single needles for my stretch marks and acne scars but owndoc was out of stock and I couldn't find any other options after Googling.

I went ahead and got the Infodolan cream since it was only $9, I already have lots of Retin-A, and as for the numbing cream, I'm going to ask my doctor for a prescription numbing cream first, I'm 99% sure he will Rx. Mainly I decided to do it this way because while owndoc's cream was only $9/tube, you had to buy 3 at a time, and the reviews for the numbing creams on Amazon worried me anyway, they were very... not good.



My problem: I'm still trying to deciding on a Vitamin C serum. I'm thinking about the Skinceuticals since I saved so much on the actual rollers, but I don't know whether to go with a 10%, 15%, or 20%. What do you guys think, if anyone sees this? As I said before, my skin isn't traditionally sensitive as much as quick to react with whiteheads and clogged pores if it doesn't like something. It seems like most of the DIY kits are 20%, so should I go with that? Or be on the safe (and slightly cheaper) side and go with the 15%?

If anyone has tried the Skinceuticals Vit C serums as well as some of the others out there, are the Skinceuticals really worth it? I just want to make sure.

Also, before I found out about dermaroliing, I was using Stri-Vectin (I was desperate) on my stretch marks. I know Stri-Vectin contains peptides, so should I go ahead and try to work this into my stretch mark skin care routine too? Maybe instead of the Vit. C serum on the stretch marks, alternating with the Retin-A?

I just happened to read the thread on dry bushing before I discovered dermarolling as well, so thankfully I've been doing that.

I'll be sure to update and let you guys know how it's going. Sorry for the book-sized post!
CookieD
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Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:31 am      Reply with quote
I am trying to find the study below by Dr. Phillippe Simonin published in Baran's Cosmetic Dermatology in 1994. Does anyone have a link? It sounds very interesting and is a very big study of 600 people. Thanks.




“Skin Needling has been performed for many years, using a variety of instruments, to soften depressed scars and deep lines. Dr Philippe Simonin, a Swissfrench Dermatologist, published his results in Baran’s Cosmetic Dermatology 1994, but his ground breaking technique, which he named Electroridopuncture (ERP), remained largely unknown to the wider medical community. In his study of 600 patients, he examined results for 2 patient groups—one with Skin Ageing and the other with old Scars. He performed 10 treatments on all patients.

In the patient group with Skin Ageing, 40% showed significant improvement, 22% moderate improvement and 13% some improvement—as measured by comparative skin imprints. In the patient group with old scars, 60% improved with 5-6 treatments. Best results were obtained for old fibrous and depressed scars.

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ValentinaM
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Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:35 am      Reply with quote
I am a newbie to this topic and while reading a few days ago I came across some posts about technique. It had to do with whether to approach scars/pores side on, at an angle or front on. I will keep digging but can anybody shed any light on this aspect?

Thanks
havana8
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:49 am      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
I am trying to find the study below by Dr. Phillippe Simonin published in Baran's Cosmetic Dermatology in 1994. Does anyone have a link? It sounds very interesting and is a very big study of 600 people. Thanks.




“Skin Needling has been performed for many years, using a variety of instruments, to soften depressed scars and deep lines. Dr Philippe Simonin, a Swissfrench Dermatologist, published his results in Baran’s Cosmetic Dermatology 1994, but his ground breaking technique, which he named Electroridopuncture (ERP), remained largely unknown to the wider medical community. In his study of 600 patients, he examined results for 2 patient groups—one with Skin Ageing and the other with old Scars. He performed 10 treatments on all patients.

In the patient group with Skin Ageing, 40% showed significant improvement, 22% moderate improvement and 13% some improvement—as measured by comparative skin imprints. In the patient group with old scars, 60% improved with 5-6 treatments. Best results were obtained for old fibrous and depressed scars.


Hi CookieD, Although in French (which I don't speak Smile ), I think this might be it:

Stimulation électrique cutanée. Procédé Simonin.
http://www.philippe-simonin.com/en/philosophie/encyclopedie%20_medicale.pdf
CookieD
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:24 am      Reply with quote
havana8 wrote:
CookieD wrote:
I am trying to find the study below by Dr. Phillippe Simonin published in Baran's Cosmetic Dermatology in 1994. Does anyone have a link? It sounds very interesting and is a very big study of 600 people. Thanks.




“Skin Needling has been performed for many years, using a variety of instruments, to soften depressed scars and deep lines. Dr Philippe Simonin, a Swissfrench Dermatologist, published his results in Baran’s Cosmetic Dermatology 1994, but his ground breaking technique, which he named Electroridopuncture (ERP), remained largely unknown to the wider medical community. In his study of 600 patients, he examined results for 2 patient groups—one with Skin Ageing and the other with old Scars. He performed 10 treatments on all patients.

In the patient group with Skin Ageing, 40% showed significant improvement, 22% moderate improvement and 13% some improvement—as measured by comparative skin imprints. In the patient group with old scars, 60% improved with 5-6 treatments. Best results were obtained for old fibrous and depressed scars.


Hi CookieD, Although in French (which I don't speak Smile ), I think this might be it:

Stimulation électrique cutanée. Procédé Simonin.
http://www.philippe-simonin.com/en/philosophie/encyclopedie%20_medicale.pdf


Thanks Havana, I tried google translate but it said it was too big of a file. I will look for a different website later today. I will say the before and after pictures look good.

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havana8
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:29 am      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
havana8 wrote:
CookieD wrote:
I am trying to find the study below by Dr. Phillippe Simonin published in Baran's Cosmetic Dermatology in 1994. Does anyone have a link? It sounds very interesting and is a very big study of 600 people. Thanks.




“Skin Needling has been performed for many years, using a variety of instruments, to soften depressed scars and deep lines. Dr Philippe Simonin, a Swissfrench Dermatologist, published his results in Baran’s Cosmetic Dermatology 1994, but his ground breaking technique, which he named Electroridopuncture (ERP), remained largely unknown to the wider medical community. In his study of 600 patients, he examined results for 2 patient groups—one with Skin Ageing and the other with old Scars. He performed 10 treatments on all patients.

In the patient group with Skin Ageing, 40% showed significant improvement, 22% moderate improvement and 13% some improvement—as measured by comparative skin imprints. In the patient group with old scars, 60% improved with 5-6 treatments. Best results were obtained for old fibrous and depressed scars.


Hi CookieD, Although in French (which I don't speak Smile ), I think this might be it:

Stimulation électrique cutanée. Procédé Simonin.
http://www.philippe-simonin.com/en/philosophie/encyclopedie%20_medicale.pdf


Thanks Havana, I tried google translate but it said it was too big of a file. I will look for a different website later today. I will say the before and after pictures look good.


I think it is because the pdf content is actually scans of the pages versus editable text.

Very impressive before and afters. Here are a few more links with photos:

http://www.philippe-simonin.com/en/philosophie/simonin_revue_presse.pdf

http://chicagopermanentcosmetics.com/skin.shtml

ps I wonder if we should move this discussion to its own thread as it seems to be more than just dermarolling? not sure though.
summer2004
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:14 am      Reply with quote
Great info, Thank you Havana!
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Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:01 pm      Reply with quote
Yes there is certainly alot of info and lots of threads on EDS about derma rolling etc. Its all a bit overwhelming for us novices ....well me Smile Confused

Just wanted to ask is that is everyone still using the star pattern for rolling??.

Ive read its now recommended horizontally and vertically only.

I want to start rolling but would like to use the correct method. I presume its a back and forth motion and that you are not lifting the roller up each time you go in one direction ?
TYIA
ellaelise
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Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:41 am      Reply with quote
Well a few of my items came in the mail today. I don't know what I was expecting Rolling Eyes but these things are no joke! I'm definitely going to use a numbing cream, lol! I have to wait anyway until my Vit C serum comes. But I'm excited to start!
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Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:23 pm      Reply with quote
I am about to buy a dermaroller and am wondering if anyone can advise on how to combine it with something like the PMD. I have some pore issues from using copper peptides Confused and am looking at using a 1.5 roller (I read this was the needle length that would be effective) once a month or every 6 weeks. I will probably be using the PMD once a week at least until summer starts. Thanks. Very Happy

Also, should I buy a .5 roller? Or would that be too much?
Tiaraleeann
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Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:47 pm      Reply with quote
This is so overwhelming for me Exclamation

I'm trying to build a skin care regimen around rolling. I know to use the vitamin a-c serums after rolling, but for the ladies that roll for product penetration everyday, how do you do it? Wait a few hours after rolling then apply your normal creams? I want to use creams after the vitamin serum post rolling, but I'm not sure how all this works and I hear less is more so I'm stumped.

I've gotten myself so flustered I don't even k ow where to start on the anti aging creams. Confused

If someone with knowledge with rolling and anti aging creams could pm me I would greatly appreciate it so I'm not cluttering the dermarolling thread with other questions, because I'm so terribly confused, I have a lot of questions.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!
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Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:35 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone,

Its been a few months since I've posted as I haven't Dermastamped since January because of my busy schedule. So anyway, I hadn't dermastamped for some time and this Sunday I began Dermastamping again. However, I was very, very vigorous this time and something remarkable has happened!

When I dermastamped on sunday, I stamped a small part of my cheek area for just over half an hour with the 1.5mm dermastamp. I really pressed it to make sure the needles were penetrating deeply. I stamped around 1000 times on each cheek. The next day my cheeks were very sore and looked heavily bruised. When I touched my cheeks it felt like a scab. I noticed flaking on Tuesday evening and I thought this was normal as flaking has occurred before but by Wednesday I noticed the entire section of my face where I dermastamped was flaking!

Its now late Thursday/ Friday and my skin looks dark brown/ red. Relatively thick skin has been falling off in some areas but to my surprise the skin underneath look incredible! If you go back to pg 197 on this thread, you can witness how bad my skin looked before my first dermastamp session and the gradual improvements of my successive sessions. But my recent demanding dermstamp session has made an extraordinary difference. I will be posting pictures of my peeled skin (which could induce vomiting haha) and face by the end of next week.

Has anyone experienced this before? Its like I've just had a skin peel. I cant find this anywhere over the internet!
Seasaidh
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Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:14 am      Reply with quote
Hi, just finished reading all 190 pages of this thread after reading all of product penetration thread...wow. I am going to start rolling after I do tca this month. I am going to wait 6 weeks for a big roll but 3 weeks to start .2 for products...does this sound ok? Thank you all for all the great posts..I have learned so much!
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Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:18 pm      Reply with quote
Seasaidh wrote:
Hi, just finished reading all 190 pages of this thread after reading all of product penetration thread...wow. I am going to start rolling after I do tca this month. I am going to wait 6 weeks for a big roll but 3 weeks to start .2 for products...does this sound ok? Thank you all for all the great posts..I have learned so much!



Hi Seasaidh, your timetable sounds good. You should try to add Vit A and C into your routine if you aren't already. It helps with results. Good job getting through the whole dermaroll thread. I know it took me forever to read it but there is a lot of good information in it. Good luck and welcome to EDS. wave

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Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:52 pm      Reply with quote
Hi IK237. I am not using derma stamp, but the derma pen. The first time I had some flaking, but was pretty well recovered in three days. My next session I went over all the areas where I particularly wanted collagen induction, or where I felt I needed tightening a lot more aggressively than the rest of my face. I started peeling two days later, and the peeling just kept getting deeper; some areas turned a purple colour. It is day five now and except for a couple of darker areas it is all healed, and the skin does look improved - tighter pores plus some milia I had around the eyes have completely disappeared. Quite impressive.

I was a little alarmed by this strong reaction and thought I had overdone it. Because of the socially limiting appearance produced by such a treatment I probably will not be so aggressive again; but hopefully will get the same results with lighter needling over more sessions.
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Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:20 am      Reply with quote
......"If you don't bleed, you won't get the results and that is the part that most people aren't willing to do!" pointed out Dr Fernandes.....

http://www.asiaone.com/Health/Health%2BMatters/Story/A1Story20111204-314268.html

I 100% agree with what Dr. Fernandes says.

Since last Nov, I have been using 1 mm dermaroller every 4 weeks; total 6 rolling treatment.

I followed the rolling techniques and rolling movement suggested by owndoc in the first three treatment; my skin did not turn much red afterwards, though!

Although I did not use any numbing cream, I made sure that the roller went them to the skin deeply. Without any topical anesthetic, of course, I did sneeze and my eyes were watering.

In the 4th treatment (Feb), I used dermapen together with roller well for spot treatment (2.0 mm).

For the fifth one (Mar), I forgot to purchase the needle for the dermapen, so I used the roller solely. This time, I rolled quite aggressively; instead of some pinprick blood spots, I did bleed.

2-3 weeks after the rolling, I found my skin was more refined & had a glow.

Last week, 6 weeks after the fifth rolling, I used the roller and the pen together.

The better result of the last rolling encouraged me to roll more aggressively. I rolled 15 minutes on each cheek and was bleeding more than the last rolling.

Of course, my cheeks was severely bruised and looked like that I had a very bad sun burn; the burning sensation lasted for 18 hours or so.

Unlike previous ones, my face was still red after 48 hours but it was fading on the 3rd day.

Also, I had not had any peeling or flakes on my cheeks in the past; only had some along the mouth and jowl area.

This time, I did have peeling - after the 48 hours.

However, I did find the size of my pores on my cheeks and area around the nose was MUCH more refined and smaller.

The most amazing one was that the pores along the laugh lines were so huge that they formed thick lines. Now, the line is fading a lot!

I am very happy with the result and will roll as hard and aggressive as I did last week.
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Sat May 04, 2013 1:32 am      Reply with quote
To add to the recent rush of success stories, I've been seeing some improvement on my hyperpigmentation/melasma from dermarolling.

I've been rolling for a year, once every 1-2 months or so, very aggressively with a 1.5 roller and have also been single needling small areas as an experiment.

Overall the brown dirty looking color have faded to a lighter shade of brown and some white "islands" of normal color are slowly expanding. It's a slow process, but I'm optimistic.
The results have just recently started to show and I'm hoping they are cumulative and that improvement will speed up from now on (Hoping, not knowing, min you Cool ).

I'll post more definitive results with pics by the end of summer, after my three weeks of planned vacation in Greece, as that will really be the ultimate test. Last year I went to Italy and returned looking like I had mud stuck to my forehead due to the sun, I hope for at better look this year Razz .

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Mid 30's, very fair skin. Using vit A and vit C. Experimenting with dermarolling, Ageless if You Dare and Safetox. Main focus on prevention, have gotten hormonal breakouts under control, would like to fix 11's, hyperpigmentation, stretch marks and acne scars on the chest.
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