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jen46
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Sat May 04, 2013 7:17 am      Reply with quote
I have read so many conflicting instructions on dermarolling. Can someone please help me get started?

I am 50 years old and doing this for collagen production and to reduce size of pores. I read somewhere online that 0.5 mm is all that was needed and a longer needle was not necessary. Opinions please.

Also...I ordered a roller from owndoc.com along with the A&D ointment. What products is everyone else using? I read vit A & C should be used. What is everyone using?

Thanks in advance.
Pinot
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Sat May 04, 2013 9:28 am      Reply with quote
Housework be damned, I'm gonna spend the day reading the Dermaroller threads! Laughing

I'm trying to find something that will help with above-the-lip wrinkles (non-smoker). That's what brought me to EDS in the first place.

Before I dive in to this massive thread, let me ask ... has anyone tried the Environ Cosmetic Focus CIT? It's the mini-version needling device that's supposed to work well around the mouth. I'm seriously thinking about ordering one and going all Norman Bates on those lip lines! Mad Mad Mad

I'm somewhat of a scaredy-cat and a total novice when it comes to skin care, so rolling/needling has been a last resort sort of thing for me. Well, fillers are my last last resort, but that idea is sounding better all the time.

Thanks for any input regarding lip lines or the Environ. I truly appreciate it! Off to read .... Very Happy

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Sat May 04, 2013 9:35 am      Reply with quote
Pinot wrote:
has anyone tried the Environ Cosmetic Focus CIT? It's the mini-version needling device that's supposed to work well around the mouth.


I think Bethany tried the CIT. Maybe PM her for her thoughts on it.

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ShastaGirl
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Sat May 04, 2013 2:36 pm      Reply with quote
Pinot wrote:
Housework be damned, I'm gonna spend the day reading the Dermaroller threads! Laughing

I'm trying to find something that will help with above-the-lip wrinkles (non-smoker). That's what brought me to EDS in the first place.

Before I dive in to this massive thread, let me ask ... has anyone tried the Environ Cosmetic Focus CIT? It's the mini-version needling device that's supposed to work well around the mouth. I'm seriously thinking about ordering one and going all Norman Bates on those lip lines! Mad Mad Mad

I'm somewhat of a scaredy-cat and a total novice when it comes to skin care, so rolling/needling has been a last resort sort of thing for me. Well, fillers are my last last resort, but that idea is sounding better all the time.

Thanks for any input regarding lip lines or the Environ. I truly appreciate it! Off to read .... Very Happy


I'll be interested to hear if you find anything that helps the lip lines. I have them too. Never smoked either.

I've tried so many things to no avail. I've done a series of 1.5mm dermastamp treatments. That helped a very, very slight amount.

I've done the Palovia laser on them (no results) and now doing the Reaura.

Did TCA @ 15%, several times. Didn't do much, and I didn't feel comfortable increasing the %.

AND I tried restylane filler. Filler helped, but only lasted about 3 weeks. I think I move my mouth a lot, so that dissipates the filler more quickly.

Dermastamp was the best option so far.
Rebecca1
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Sat May 04, 2013 2:59 pm      Reply with quote
ShastaGirl wrote:
Pinot wrote:
Housework be damned, I'm gonna spend the day reading the Dermaroller threads! Laughing

I'm trying to find something that will help with above-the-lip wrinkles (non-smoker). That's what brought me to EDS in the first place.

Before I dive in to this massive thread, let me ask ... has anyone tried the Environ Cosmetic Focus CIT? It's the mini-version needling device that's supposed to work well around the mouth. I'm seriously thinking about ordering one and going all Norman Bates on those lip lines! Mad Mad Mad

I'm somewhat of a scaredy-cat and a total novice when it comes to skin care, so rolling/needling has been a last resort sort of thing for me. Well, fillers are my last last resort, but that idea is sounding better all the time.

Thanks for any input regarding lip lines or the Environ. I truly appreciate it! Off to read .... Very Happy


I'll be interested to hear if you find anything that helps the lip lines. I have them too. Never smoked either.

I've tried so many things to no avail. I've done a series of 1.5mm dermastamp treatments. That helped a very, very slight amount.

I've done the Palovia laser on them (no results) and now doing the Reaura.

Did TCA @ 15%, several times. Didn't do much, and I didn't feel comfortable increasing the %.

AND I tried restylane filler. Filler helped, but only lasted about 3 weeks. I think I move my mouth a lot, so that dissipates the filler more quickly.

Dermastamp was the best option so far.



2 rounds of TRIA appears to have finally worked on mine. Though I have a little filler (Juvederm) along the upper lip border which also made huge difference.

cheers
Mishey
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Sat May 04, 2013 6:25 pm      Reply with quote
That's great Bec! I'm on my last week of my first 8 week round on my ReAura and I really hope to get improvement like that!

Shastagirl and Pinot I also have a small amount of Juvey in my upper lip border and that eliminated the couple of lines I had there. Peels and even the ablative urbium laser couldn't do the job.
summer2004
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Mon May 06, 2013 6:26 am      Reply with quote
CPHgirl wrote:
......I've been seeing some improvement on my hyperpigmentation/melasma from dermarolling......Overall the brown dirty looking color have faded to a lighter shade of brown and some white "islands" of normal color are slowly expanding......


I also noticed that my skin tone was much more even than before; the "dirty looking color" on my upper cheeks was the souvenir of years of suntanning without applying any sunblock.
IngiiJay
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Mon May 20, 2013 10:41 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone. I've been rolling for a while with Owndocs 1.5mm roller. I follow the directions as set out on owndoc, but have noticed that I often get track marks/groooves on my forehead that seem to last forever... I'm not even sure if some of them go away until the next roll. I roll about every 4-6 weeks. Does anyone else have this problem?

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JaeBlue
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Wed May 29, 2013 11:48 pm      Reply with quote
I derma-rolled every 7 weeks for over a year. I stopped about 10 months ago. I will start again soon and do it every 3-4 months.

I used Owndoc's advice, didn't roll like crazy. I definitely suggest using a numbing cream, makes a huge difference. I rolled and had pinpoint bleeding but nothing too drastic. I used a homemade vitamin C serum afterwards. My skin would look OK within 2 days, but it was dry and tight.

Now almost two years since I started the results have been dramatic. In my mid-50's my skin has never looked this good. I had some left over small acne scars, they are nearly gone. My skin is firm and the texture is wonderful.

I couldn't be happier with results but you have to be very patient. If you do it every 6 weeks it may take 1.5 years to start to see the results. But it is so worth it. It took decades to cause the damage, 1 year is worth the wait to see the improvements!
catski
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Thu May 30, 2013 3:49 am      Reply with quote
Thats fantastic input jaeblue, congratulations and thanks for sharing!
mountaingirl
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Thu May 30, 2013 4:26 am      Reply with quote
Tiaraleeann wrote:
This is so overwhelming for me Exclamation

I'm trying to build a skin care regimen around rolling. I know to use the vitamin a-c serums after rolling, but for the ladies that roll for product penetration everyday, how do you do it? Wait a few hours after rolling then apply your normal creams? I want to use creams after the vitamin serum post rolling, but I'm not sure how all this works and I hear less is more so I'm stumped.

I've gotten myself so flustered I don't even k ow where to start on the anti aging creams. Confused

If someone with knowledge with rolling and anti aging creams could pm me I would greatly appreciate it so I'm not cluttering the dermarolling thread with other questions, because I'm so terribly confused, I have a lot of questions.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!


I would not layer the products, so after you apply your serum after the roll, leave it alone.
On a night when you aren't rolling, apply your other skin care cream.

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Vehicle is a 1952 scratch and dent model....olive-ish, dry skin, long curly gray hair. Staples: Tazorac, 2mm Dermaroller, Anti Aging Light Stim, Devita Sunscreens, homemade C serums, some positive affirmations and whatever else it takes! Kicking and screaming the whole way...
mountaingirl
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Thu May 30, 2013 4:28 am      Reply with quote
gretchen wrote:
I am about to buy a dermaroller and am wondering if anyone can advise on how to combine it with something like the PMD. I have some pore issues from using copper peptides Confused and am looking at using a 1.5 roller (I read this was the needle length that would be effective) once a month or every 6 weeks. I will probably be using the PMD once a week at least until summer starts. Thanks. Very Happy

Also, should I buy a .5 roller? Or would that be too much?


What is PMD?

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Vehicle is a 1952 scratch and dent model....olive-ish, dry skin, long curly gray hair. Staples: Tazorac, 2mm Dermaroller, Anti Aging Light Stim, Devita Sunscreens, homemade C serums, some positive affirmations and whatever else it takes! Kicking and screaming the whole way...
CookieD
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Thu May 30, 2013 4:09 pm      Reply with quote
mountaingirl wrote:

What is PMD?


Personal microderm

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/personal-microderm-system-p_13623.htm

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Barefootgirl
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Thu May 30, 2013 7:53 pm      Reply with quote
More info from Dr. Setterfield. Of particular interest (to me) was the info on needle length (again) and specific topical ingredient information:

http://www.beautymagonline.com/sample-pages/1185-needling-09-1

BFG
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Thu May 30, 2013 8:17 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
More info from Dr. Setterfield. Of particular interest (to me) was the info on needle length (again) and specific topical ingredient information:

http://www.beautymagonline.com/sample-pages/1185-needling-09-1

BFG


Thanks BFG. One thing I have a question about would be this statement.

"Prolonging the inflammatory phase (day 1-5) will result in more growth factors. Photomodulation and lymph drainage are valuable from day 2-14"

By Photomodulation I would assume he is talking about LED lights that are suppose to decrease inflammation. If that is true and he wants to prolong the inflammatory phase (day 1-5). Why would he want you to use LED lights starting on day 2?

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catski
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Fri May 31, 2013 3:10 am      Reply with quote
Sometimes I wonder if these people are shooting in the dark, and its us who are actually experimenting in the field, finding out what actually works, for each of us individually, and sharing the reality of it.

Ime, the information and protocols provided by sara vaughter are extremely effective.

All the input that says you need to bleed a lot to get results, is clearly untrue. I think it is put forward as a deterrent to home usage of derma rollers.. like " this is way too gory for you to ever do properly alone." I have had really strong, good results, without bleeding. It really depends on individual skin.

There are just so many variables, all protocols have to be subject to extreme tweaking.
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Fri May 31, 2013 9:28 am      Reply with quote
It's always going to be difficult to get a consensus on anything like this, since each person in the business is biased based on their own particular angle, even godfather Fernandes (and I say this tongue in cheek because the man has always been gracious with his time for me and my questions).

I don't know what Setterfield means by that statement. I am planning to attend his lecture in a couple weeks, so I could add that to the list of questions I am drafting.

BFG
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Fri May 31, 2013 9:35 am      Reply with quote
My needling routine is evolving. I discover something new each time I needle.

Latest is the application of cold gel mask (one piece, face shape) after I am done....it really kills the intense discomfort I feel...after a few minutes, I take it, apply the vitamins and go to sleep.

Now, I roll the large sections - cheeks, tops of hands, neck and upper forehead. Then I use the pen around my eyes, nose and lips - in the tight spaces and in any wrinkle crevices. Using both I can really do a good job.

For the life of me, it is a real challenge to get the numbing cream to take effect on my hands and above my lip - those two areas are nearly impervious.

I might have to research gloves over my hands or something.

I did a deep roll & poke last night - wow woke up this morning with my whole face swollen up. Lots of inflammation for sure....yikes.

Lots of vitamin oil..

To the poster (forget which one) who mentioned not getting good results on the upper lip - be sure to use Fernandes recommended protocols for topicals before and after....maybe you are already doing that?

BFG
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Fri May 31, 2013 9:41 am      Reply with quote
It was this statement that really grabbed my attention...if we are trying to make sure our efforts are all effective, seems like we need to key in on this list...I don't know whether these "ingredients" are all topicals or some orally supplemented?

"Collagen synthesis requires: Retinyl Palmitate, Retinyl Acetate, Retinol or Tretinoin), Vitamin C (e.g. Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, L-Ascorbic Acid), key amino acids (proline & glycine), bioflavonoids, growth factors, selenium, silicon allied with magnesium and calcium, copper peptides, zinc and iron (co-factors), hormones and essential fatty acids (for cell function and membranes). Stem cell products and platelet rich therapy hold enormous promise.[/i]

Stem cell products hold promise? wasn't that Doctor J's product?

BFG
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Fri May 31, 2013 1:49 pm      Reply with quote
I don't think there will ever be a consensus either. I think as we do more rolls over extended periods of time you find out what works for you.

I think one thing for me personally that tends not to get mentioned is the time it takes to do a roll. For me to get results I need to poke LOTS of holes in my face. I could never get the amount of holes in my face in a 5 min. period. I do think the My-m gives better results for me then the dermaroller because it forces you to make a lot of holes in your skin. The My-m treatments tend to go a little slower because I use a stamping motion most of the time but the amount of pricks in the skin is much more then I would get from a roller in the same time period.

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Fri May 31, 2013 2:05 pm      Reply with quote
Here's more detail on what's worked so well for me!

I apply a numbing cream and wait until my skin is very numb. I started without one, but found I could be more effective with one. It takes me at least 15-20 minutes to roll, I use a 1.5 roller. I clean my skin with alcohol first. I do many, multiply passes over my entire face and neck. Then I use the stamp for more wrinkled or problem areas. It bleeds a little, pinprick spots all over my face. Not much blood, but some, no big deal. BUT even with numbing cream this is not a painless procedure. Without numbing cream - it REALLY hurts!

I also single needle any larger pores that were actually acne scars. My skin is very pink when done. As soon as I'm done I apply vitamin C serum. Then apply the Sarah Vaughner's (owndoc.com) vitamin A and D ointment. That's it. The only time I was swollen was when I stamped my eyelids (carefully!) My eyelids though show the least amount of improvement, probably wouldn't do it again.

Truthfully, my skin doesn't look good for about a week. It's very dry and rough as it heals.

It takes a few weeks for my skin to really recover. It's not terrible, and I may be the only one who notices.

But it's so worth it in the long run. My results are wonderful! Very happy I've done this and plan to continue!
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Fri May 31, 2013 2:27 pm      Reply with quote
It takes me 3-4 hours to do a deep roll....seriously.

I only roll one section/time - so while I am needling or rolling one section, I have another under wrap with cream, waiting.

and of course, I always wash my face with antibacterial soap before and after....
then I put on the cooling mask...it really is an all evening event. I am glad I am only doing this about 5-6 week intervals.

I think eventually I will have this all down pat and will put together an e-guide LOL...it's fun for me in a weird way. Bad Grin

Oh and I keep magazines by my side to read while one section is numbing. The cheeks and hands go fast with the roller, but with the pen, I go very slowly over and over the areas.
It's quite a job. I can't imagine how much I would have to pay somebody to do this for me at a medspa.

BFG
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Fri May 31, 2013 2:28 pm      Reply with quote
Actually, I paid $300 in December for someone to lightly needle my face with the actual Dermapen - so this would probably cost at least $1K.

BFG
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Fri May 31, 2013 3:21 pm      Reply with quote
I need to do something about the skin at the base of my neck. I want to roll it, and I'm aprehensive about post roll hyper pigmentation.. when I rolled my decolletage years ago it brought to the surface a crazy amount of pigmentation which currently Reaura is getting rid of. I dont know wether to risk rolling my neck..but it needs an intervention.
Have any of you ladies that read a lot about rolling come across anything about damage surfacing post roll, or have any experience yourselves with this?
I didnt have this issue when I rolled my hands or face or stretchmarks.
Do you think neck skin is different than facial skin? Thinner? I certainly have spent way too many years in the face not taking any notice of my neck.. Wink
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Fri May 31, 2013 3:55 pm      Reply with quote
If I add in the amount of time waiting for the numbing to happen, all in all it takes me just over an hour or so . . .
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