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RussianSunshine
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Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:23 pm      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
http://www.needlingguide.com/online-course

Watch this site ^^ for Setterfield's online needling course! He said its coming out this week!


Will it be free? Cool Or as bloody expensive as the book?

I think, he makes microneedling sound more complex than it is. At the end of the day, that's all you need: a roller and a HA serum. And according to Dr Fernandes, all you really need is a roller and his "magic" ACE oil!

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Lorraineg57
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Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:25 am      Reply with quote
I have 11's and forehead lines, also lip lines. I'd like to order one specifically for those areas to use maybe 1X a week along with one that can be used daily all over (firming?)? I do NOT want down time, I don't have any. Smile I don't care if I have to use more often to see results.

Also where to buy? (preferably US)

Thanks!
fawnie
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Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:41 am      Reply with quote
Lorraine I urge you to read all you can about needling. It most definitely is NOT just grab a roller and slap on something afterward. Its a scientific method and requires correct treatment to see optimum results. Otherwise you risk inflammation which makes skin worse not better.

I have completely eradicated my crowfeet lines after about 3 months of 0.5mm once a month and 0.3mm 5 times a week. Lip lines require exercises + needles.

Here is another place its being discussed:
http://skincare.boards.net/thread/49/dermarolling-skin-needling-pcit

and here is another link to info:

http://www.beautymagonline.com/sample-pages/1185-needling-09-1

Good luck!

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Lorraineg57
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Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:56 am      Reply with quote
I've done some research online and will check the links you provided. I tried researching here but the amount of info is overwhelming.

Thanks!
Needl
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Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:56 pm      Reply with quote
Lorraine: If you get deep into wrinkles with a single needle, the long term results are AMAZING, but you will look frightening for a couple of days: the wrinkles are emphasised by the needling, and you will look about 150! I plan it in my diary, ensuring that I can do it one evening and have the next day completely off.

Makeup must be left off for at least one day (read the Owndoc instruction pdf, then you won't be overwhelmed by this entire forum). Surely you can take one day off once in a while? Treat it like a spa holiday. It only needs to be once in a while - your body will do the rest. On the second day (after 2 nights and one day) my understanding is that makeup is ok. Double check that.

I don't think just fluffing away with a .25mm roller or stamp will get into those deeper lines. You're trying to build up the deep 'cracks' with more collagen, to even out the total appearance. Think of it this way: a Dr treating your wrinkles with fillers isn't going to fill your entire face up - the point is to specifically fill the wrinkles.

Have a look at some of the sites of cosmetic tattooists who do CIT. I know Sarah Vaughter disapproves of tattoo needles, but at least these tattoo sites show a. how these tattooists get deep into specific wrinkles and acne scars b. how scary and ugly the clients look for a few days and c how good the long-term results can be when those wrinkles/scars fill out.

My technique is: deep single needles and narrow stamping on the deep lines, whenever I see one forming. Looks horrible and HURTS. 1.5mm-2mm. This has taken me from a year ago getting those 'bitter' upper lip lines and 'monkey mouth' lines that are so depressing in older women, to a nice, younger upper lip again. Monkey mouth lines and Bunny lines at top of nose and forehead lines GONE. I'm still working on my parenthesis lines, which had been deepening for over 30 years. They are definitely filling out. Back of wrists really need more deep single needle work.

I do use general rolling and stamping for general thickening of skin, eg back of hands,cheeks, throat. 1.5mm. Rolling is more painful than stamping for me. It doesn't look so bad - more like an overall rash, but I don't think it will bring up the deeper lines, and you still can't use makeup for that first day of healing. This definitely gives me thicker skin, eg the back of my hands have gone from veiney and 'old' looking to about 10 years younger.

This is a commitment for the rest of my life, if I want to limit the aging of my skin, and that commitment needs a day off socialising/working every 6-8 weeks. Worth it in my opinion.

BTW, in winter, when I wear trousers, I did my lower legs (very sun damaged and very thin skin), and they took a frightening 10 days to heal! So my face and hands are actually healing very quickly compared to that.

One more thing: Deb Crowley of Flexeffect has a new method of skin stretching, which she seems to state is just as good as needling and would give you no down time. You could look into that?

But personally, I've had such amazing results with needling that I'm prepared to take the pain and downtime to get the certain results.
Needl
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Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:13 pm      Reply with quote
lagomorph: by 'Monkey mouth' in my diatribe above Wink I did mean nasolabial lines. I think you need to analyse what is causing yours. If you have sagging cheeks, causing constant folding between cheeks and mouth area then needling can at most help counter the constant folding. But if your cheeks are good and high (still young or through exercises, as in my case), and the NL lines are caused by smiling, not constant sagging pressure, then yes, I have found that needling helps A LOT against them. Smile
Lorraineg57
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Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:09 pm      Reply with quote
I was looking around the owndoc site and I didn't think the single needles were that long? I have a high tolerance for pain but I don't know, it sounds worse than I thought it would be. Confused

I was thinking single needle for the 11's and such and a 1 or 1.5 for all over? If you don't mind my asking where you purchase? I'm in the US if there's anything in the states.

I'll look up the skin stretching too.

Thanks for all the info.
Needl
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Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:15 pm      Reply with quote
The Owndoc single needles are 1.8 long - should be long enough. The diameter of .25mm might be what you were thinking of?

If you're scared to do this yourself, why not go to a professional? I certainly have to force myself do it every couple of months, and sometimes I pike out. But the sight of lines re-forming or crepeyness appearing motivate me Wink
Lorraineg57
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Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:08 am      Reply with quote
What size would you suggest for all over that can be done more frequently without down time?

Happy Easter! (if you celebrate ) Wink
fawnie
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Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:08 pm      Reply with quote
Lorraine, Dr Setterfield recs 0.5mm all over once every 28 days and then daily with 0.3mm all over starting on Day 5 after the 0.5mm roll (or as soon as tolerated w/o causing inflammation).

Here is another good source for rolling info, if you're not already overloaded!Very Happy

http://www.dermalintegrity.com/

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Needl
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Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:13 pm      Reply with quote
I'm not convinced that .5mm will do the job though - ie stimulate collagen production. It will do the job for product penetration, sure. Read up Sarah Vaughter (Owndoc) on needle length.
stovetop
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:31 am      Reply with quote
fawnie: Do you use Dr. Setterfield's products post roll? If not, what do you recommend? Thanks
Michi30
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:17 am      Reply with quote
I do not mean to be repetitive, as I'm sure this has been covered but I cannot seem to find a good, definitive answer. How do you sanitize your dermaroller before and after use? Someone posted an experience of getting an infection after using just hydrogen peroxide and I want to take all precautions before starting. My understanding is that true sterilization is impossible at home, so what is the next best thing? Rubbing alcohol? Iodine? Using an anti-bacterial ointment after rolling?
Pandax12
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:02 am      Reply with quote
Dermarolling is no exact science at this point. Dr.Fernandez believes one thing, Sarah Vaughter (owndoc) believes something else. While Dr.Setterfiend has his own ideas.If Setterfield's ideas were the only way to achieve results, how would you explain all the people with tremendous results using Fernandez protocol? I myself was using a 2.0mm roller for my face (1.5mm for neck) but have gone back to a 1.0mm roller for both. Best of both worlds perhaps? Who knows.Being a guy and seeing as though mens skin is supposed to be around 25% thicker than woman's, I would personally want to use a roller with needles longer than 0.5mm
Pandax12
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:06 am      Reply with quote
Michi30 wrote:
I do not mean to be repetitive, as I'm sure this has been covered but I cannot seem to find a good, definitive answer. How do you sanitize your dermaroller before and after use? Someone posted an experience of getting an infection after using just hydrogen peroxide and I want to take all precautions before starting. My understanding is that true sterilization is impossible at home, so what is the next best thing? Rubbing alcohol? Iodine? Using an anti-bacterial ointment after rolling?


Michi, For almost 3 years now, I've been cleaning my roller with a toothbrush with a dab of dishwashing liquid. Then I soak it in a tiny container with rubbing alcohol (highest %) for maybe 30 minutes at least. Then let air dry and store back in container. Never had any issues.
bob44
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:37 am      Reply with quote
Hey Guys,

I find this quite interesting but at the same time very overwhelming. Is there a beginners guide to dermarolling that can get me started?

Many thanks in advance!
Pandax12
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:56 am      Reply with quote
http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

This is a very popular guide many here use. Although I think she recommends rolling too often with needles 1.0mm and longer. I would not roll with a 1.0mm or longer needle any more than once every 4 weeks. She does mention on her forum that waiting that long or even longer between 1.0mm+ rolls is likely a good thing.
Pandax12
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:46 pm      Reply with quote
Odd that Dr. Setterfiels's website say's here to roll with a 0.5mm once a week. I thought he recommended once every 28 days? Also $149.00???? lordy...I'll stick to my cheap ebay rollers for a fraction of that cost. Never had any issues with them. I did read that his needles are thinner than standard needles.

http://www.dermalintegrity.com/store/p4/MTS_Dermaroller_.05_mm.html
fawnie
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:45 pm      Reply with quote
Pandax12 wrote:
Odd that Dr. Setterfiels's website say's here to roll with a 0.5mm once a week. I thought he recommended once every 28 days? Also $149.00???? lordy...I'll stick to my cheap ebay rollers for a fraction of that cost. Never had any issues with them. I did read that his needles are thinner than standard needles.

http://www.dermalintegrity.com/store/p4/MTS_Dermaroller_.05_mm.html


No Panda, the weekly 0.5mm roll is old information. Now he says to roll once every 28 days with 0.5mm and longer for PCIT. And then to work up to every day with 0.2mm or 0.3mm for product penetration.

Yes, the MTS roller needles are 0.07mm diameter and most others are 0.25mm diameter.

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lagomorph
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:08 pm      Reply with quote
Needl, thank you for posting all that. I really like using the single needles too. With the rollers I just find it's much harder to control what I'm doing. They make me a bit paranoid and I prefer the precision of the single needles. The dermastamp is next on my list to order.

I needled my nasolabial lines and some lines on my forehead. Will let you guys know how that comes out. I think I could get some improvement in the nasolabial because at this point they are just lines, not folds, but fillers are inevitable at some point.
lagomorph
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Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:46 pm      Reply with quote
Oh, and as far as the comparison between the ebay roller and the one from owndoc, I do think the owndoc one is a tiny bit higher quality but there wasn't a huge difference. I think I'm more of a needle/stamp user anyway.

I was reading about using efudex with microneedling so I might try that as an experiment. I've used efudex on and off in different areas since that one study came out.
Needl
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:42 pm      Reply with quote
Lagomorgh "fillers are inevitable"? Well, I'm desperately hoping not, because I keep 'lifting' and 'pulling back' my cheeks with exercises. Do you do any?
Needl
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:53 pm      Reply with quote
Interesting "permanant makeup" site here, with comments on skin needling: http://permanentmakeuptrainingandtips.com/what-is-skin-needling/

What struck me is this: " We do not work on any tissue outside the boundaries of the wrinkles or scar tissue, as this will make the wrinkle appear even deeper."

This is my point about working deep in the wrinkles and scars: just rolling over the whole area could stimulate the surrounding skin more, giving no overall improvement. Maybe that is why some young people trying to roll acne scars away are dissatisfied: their young skin is very responsive to rolling, so the surrounding tissue is well stimulated, but the scar itself still looks deep.

This is why I think rolling and stamping is great for overall skin thickening, but perhaps not ideal for specfically raising wrinkles and scars.
lagomorph
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Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:12 pm      Reply with quote
Needl wrote:
Lagomorgh "fillers are inevitable"? Well, I'm desperately hoping not, because I keep 'lifting' and 'pulling back' my cheeks with exercises. Do you do any?


No, honestly I've never really looked into facial exercises. Probably because I had horrble TMJ for awhile and the idea of doing any facial exercise was not appealing at all. Smile My masseter muscle on my right side was visibly larger than my left from clenching. Thankfully that's all gone now.

Hmm, I got the 2.0 dermastamp off ebay and it doesn't seem to go deep enough to draw blood? I'm pressing hard and only getting one or too tiny drops. With the roller or the single needles I don't have this problem. I'm kind of afraid to press too hard.
Needl
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Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:34 pm      Reply with quote
That is a bit puzzling. Could you write and ask the seller about that?
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