DermaRoller
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free skin care · Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:37 am

HI, Bethany, It took me over a month to decide to get a dermaroller. I just didn't want to go through the pain. But, even though it hurts, it's tolerable, especially if you use a little numbing cream. I followed others' suggestion to start out EASY. Good move! You get accustomed to it. I've only rolled three times so I'm still new at it. What LED did you buy?

free skin care · Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:46 am

ScotsLass, thanks for the detailed explanation as to why rolling should only be done for 6 weeks. I have done my 6 rolls, and was going to continue, but now I understand WHY my skin needs a break. I also agree about only rolling once a week as when I got over zealous, my skin looked terrible, whereas it responded really well to once weeky use. My skin definitely looks so much better now, I am so pleased I took the plunge and bought the 1.5. By the way, has anyone who has had collagen fillers put in, used the larger roller? My friend wants to try it, but she has fillers put in every 6 months and is worried that this would break it down or dissolve it.

free skin care · Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:51 pm

I agree with Lililulu, thanks to ScotsLass for the great info. That's what tipped me into taking the plunge with the dermaroller, and I just bought two...the 1.5 and a .5. Skin and vanity are happy, wallet not so much. ha

free skin care · Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:10 pm

Mars wrote:

HI, Bethany, It took me over a month to decide to get a dermaroller. I just didn't want to go through the pain. But, even though it hurts, it's tolerable, especially if you use a little numbing cream. I followed others' suggestion to start out EASY. Good move! You get accustomed to it. I've only rolled three times so I'm still new at it. What LED did you buy?

Mars, I got the ProLight Platinum.

I think I am definitely getting a DermRoller, though I will probably chicken out and go with the shortest one at the very beginning. Or I can take my cat's insulin needles and just start poking myself all over. Smile

free skin care · Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:09 pm

I thought I would report on an interesting finding yesterday. I am rolling all over my arms including upper under side to deal with the "tuckshop lady waggle lol). I work out lots and have firm upper arms but there i a little crepiness near my armpit.
I have been doing in to this area for about 3 weeks. I last did it 10 days ago. Today I had a spray tan and OH MY in this area I can now see all the needle dots as they have colured darker. No where else did see it but it is really clear there is still tiny tiny breaks in the skin. So i thought I share with your roller derby girls! It looks like this ...............
...............
...............
For some reason I was thrilled by this as I took it as evidence that the skin is being changed or at least affected by rolling.
Thoughts?

free skin care · Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:04 pm

katebargold wrote:

I thought I would report on an interesting finding yesterday. I am rolling all over my arms including upper under side to deal with the "tuckshop lady waggle lol). I work out lots and have firm upper arms but there i a little crepiness near my armpit.
I have been doing in to this area for about 3 weeks. I last did it 10 days ago. Today I had a spray tan and OH MY in this area I can now see all the needle dots as they have colured darker. No where else did see it but it is really clear there is still tiny tiny breaks in the skin. So i thought I share with your roller derby girls! It looks like this ...............
...............
...............
For some reason I was thrilled by this as I took it as evidence that the skin is being changed or at least affected by rolling.
Thoughts?

Yes, I get the same on my chest when I put tan on there. Sometimes days after rolling my face...I will be doing my eyebrows using my mag mirror, and I will notice the roller track marks.

All good stuff, I reckon???

rebecca

free skin care · Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:58 pm

Does anyone get a slight "popping" when rolling?...like it is breaking through a sealed surface. I can't articulate this, but I do feel like the needles don't just slip into the skin, rather they "break" through. This is most apparent on my forehead. Also wanted to mention, I am going with the big guns after rolling, applying undiluted Tetrahexyldecyl Abscorbate then some Emu oil on top. This form of Vit C is supposed to have the best skin lightening properties of all the C's and is oil soluable, so Emu works well with it. I do have to say though, my face was a bit flushed all day today, after rolling then applying the Tetra C last night.

Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:02 pm

Hi all!

Well, I was up until midnight reading this thread and I've finally mustered up some courage to ask a few questions, if you knowledgeable ladies don't mind.

I'm really interested in this product to help with acne hyperpigmentation and some minor scarring. I've been using copper peptides with very good results, as well as a 40% lactic acid peel once a week, as well as all kinds of milder HAs. The chemicals have helped a lot, but they've also really dried and thinned my skin, which is what makes the dermaroller so appealing. I'm thinking of buying the 1mm one off eBay and giving it a try and maybe eventually incorporating the 1.5mm one. What do you ladies think?

I'm 21, and I don't have so much of an issue with wrinkles, though my skin is becoming kind of crepey because of all the drying things I've been doing to it, and I'm starting to get some fine lines (hopefully b/c it's dried out--according to my genetic makeup, I should still look young! *sigh*). I still have some minor acne, though it's clearing up (I've been dealing with it for about six years and just had the WORST break out of my life a few months ago-after I had FINALLY got my skin mostly clear- while getting off medication and my skin has been trying to recover ever since; it's more or less clear at this point, though there's some minor acne left b/c of a hormonal issue that's being dealt with). Should I just stick with peels and CPs, or give this a shot? I really don't want to do anything that will end up damaging my skin (obviously), but the scarring/hyperpigmentation has really taken a toll on my self-esteem, so any I'm looking for any kind of help.

Wow, okay, I'm sorry if I rambled there, but I'm nervous about trying this product (and posting ^_^). Basically, just promise me it'll work, lol! Laughing

free skin care · Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:31 pm

Hi gurlpunkrck and welcome. Skin rolling with the longer length needles will definitely help your acne scars but I would advise against rolling if you still have active acne. I would suggest that you purchase your roller from the Nova Skin Clinic website as I think they are the best quality. http://www.dermarollers.com/
But before proceeding, I would email them with all your concerns and ask them what length roller they recommend and a course of treatment. Also, have you thought about trying Retin-A? Many people on this forum have had success treating their acne with this and it's also a great compliment to skin rolling. Good luck!

Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:35 pm

I actually have tried Retin-A (micro, that is), but I react badly to it, unfortunately. Sad

That's a good point, though, about the acne. I think I'll hold off until my face is 100% cleared up to try this out. I keep reading so many good things about the Dermaroller, and it seems so exciting! Definitely a good post-acne treatment. One more thing to save up for, I guess. Rolling Eyes

Thanks for the advice!!!

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:32 am

Hi, Mountaingirl, My skin makes a popping noise, too, especially on my forhead and near my hairline. It sounds strange when it's happening. I have a scar on my shoulder I roll fairly vigorously. When I'm working on that, I hear a sound like I'm cutting through gristle. Oh, that sounds disgusting, doesn't it? But, I actually like hearing it because it makes me think it's breaking up that scar tissue.

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:35 am

I hear the popping sound too. I also hear it when I get botox sometimes. It's a very weird feeling.

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:59 am

Yikes!! I hear it to and it grosses me out. I think it's a good thing, though because at least you know you're getting full penetration! Wink

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:09 pm

Glad to hear I am not popping alone!

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:23 am

OzGal wrote:

I've just started reading the EDS Forums and send a great big thankyou out to you all. I've learnt so much in so little time. I have brought an L&R Dermaroler kit and have ordered NuFace.I can't get the DVD to work so I don't know how to use it and the written instructions aren't very helpful.

When they say roll over skin 10 times. Does that mean 10 times for say the whole forehead area or just a strip of skin in the area.

Welcome, OzGal, and congrat's on the acquisition of your first derma roller!

I thought I would chime in and describe how I roll my face when I perform one of my weekly treatments with the 1.5 mm size, as some additional info can never hurt (no pun intended - LOL!). Keep in mind that the same method can be used with any size roller, so this is also appropriate for your L&R model.

After I have sufficiently numbed my skin with an analgesic cream (used only when I roll with the 1.5 mm), I always start my weekly treatments at my forehead and work my way down. I also roll my entire face in parallel strips, regardless of the direction I am rolling. I generally begin at the top left side of my forehead next to my hairline and roll left to right with moderate pressure 10 times before I move to the next strip of skin on my forehead (immediately below, or parallel, to the area I just rolled). I continue to roll left to right, moving strip by strip, until I reach the top of my eyebrows at which point I change directions. Note: I use the 20 mm roller head width as my gauge for strip size and try to keep my rolling strips close together.

Once I've finished rolling left to right, I switch directions and begin to roll my forehead skin up and down 10 times per strip (I generally start near my left temple/hairline area). I move all the way across my forehead, again rolling strip by strip 10 times each, until I reach my right temple. I then finish my forehead roll by adding some diagonal rolls across the forehead area and do this in both directions (meaning I begin rolling diagonally from the upper left corner of my hairline down towards the lower right outside brow area 10 times, then switch corners and do the same for the other side).

The goal is to always roll strip-by-strip and in three different directions before you move to a new area. By following the star formation of rolling (*) and doing it systematically with the strip-by-strip method, you will ensure you are rolling every area thoroughly and not the same patch over and over again. Also remember to *lift* the roller whenever you start to roll a new strip of skin or when you change directions. If you don't lift the roller each time you start to roll a new strip, or change directions, you can run the risk of creating small tears in your skin as the roller needles must be placed and not dragged from one area to the next.

OzGal wrote:

How hard do you roll. Is it hard enough to push the needles into the skin or just firm enough to show a pink glow.

I use moderate pressure, not too soft, and not too hard, yet the needles are definitely puncturing the skin and dermis. When you first begin rolling you will intuitively use a pressure that you are comfortable with. Once your skin desensitizes a bit and you feel more at ease with the feeling, you will definitely press more firmly, which is perfectly fine. The immediate result that I have after a moderate roll is a deep red glow and my skin tends to look as if it has been somewhat sunburned (but is not 'bloody' in any way and isn't bruising or in need of any damage control - LOL - like this -

). With my current regime, any redness I have subsides overnight and I awake to a clear and glowy complexion.

OzGal wrote:

After rolling can you use a cloth face mask?

Absolutely! If you chill your cloth face mask in the fridge before you need to use it, it will provide an extra soothing sensation after you've used your roller.

Hope to hear how you made out after your first roll, OzGal, and what you're impressions of the L&R roller is (btw, what size do you buy?).

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:36 am

sherryf13500 wrote:

To summarize the last few days. It is recommended to use the 1.5 rollers once a week for 6 weeks. I only have the 1.5. I was using this for the 1st week. 3 times. I had red skin after for a day. (like a sunburn). I have pealed.

You say to use this once a week. When I use the 1.5. I don't push the needles all the way in. I do prick my skin. Is this correct?

I use CP after now. I was using it before and after, however someone said not to use it before. Just after. I want to do this correctly. So anyone with experience and results can you expand on the new information that has been posted in the past few days. Thanks.

Should I buy a smaller roller for the week?

Hi Sherry - You will intuitively use a pressure that you are comfortable with when you first begin to roll with the 1.5 mm size, so there is no need to worry about doing it incorrectly. Of course the purpose of using this particular size is because it can penetrate the dermis in order to break down old collagen strands and stimulate the wound-healing cascade. This is the only way your body will send out specific messages that it needs to produce new collagen and elastin fiberblasts. So the more pressure you can apply in order to reach the dermis properly, without hurting yourself, that is, the better your results will be down the road. If I could make a suggestion it would be to classify your recent rolls as testers only. As soon as you are rolling 'moderately' (and you'll know the difference between a soft and moderate and hard roll), you can begin to follow the 6 weekly treatment protocol and then take the required break. After which, I would highly recommend you buy a smaller roller to use for product penetration and so on, as this will ensure that you do not accidentally interfere with the collagen production process that was set into motion by using the 1.5 mm size as it was intended.

As for using CP's; the advice to not use them before you roll is correct. Even using them after a roll requires some caution as you cannot apply them on skin that contains any kind of 'oozing'. So if your skin is clear and ooze-free after a session it is okay to apply your CP. But do not do this immediately; I would suggest you wait at least an hour after you've rolled before you apply your CP and consider diluting it with some water until you know for certain how your skin will tolerate it after a rolling session with moderate pressure. So please test an area of your skin first once you begin to roll with more pressure, as the CP will penetrate FAR more deeply than it does with your current rolling technique.

Results for the majority of us who are using the 1.5 mm size are still forth-coming. It's simply too early to see anything dramatic as the skin rejuvenation process takes a good 90 days+ before you'll have a proper idea of how well you've done with your roller. Results also continue to develop from that point forward, so it may be a good 6 months down the road before you know for certain how well your skin responded to your weekly sessions, etc. I have seen pictures of a person who underwent a medical roll (in a clinic) and wasn't too happy at the 3 month mark with her results. Unfortunately she had to leave the country for a period and couldn't undergo another medical roll for many more months. By the time she returned back home a good 6 months had passed and the results she was seeking HAD developed during that time WITHOUT the need for a another treatment cycle. In her case, her body required a good 6 to 9 months to produce the amount of collagen and elastin necessary to rejuvenate her skin fully. And the results were truly amazing!!! This just goes to show that additional rolling with the larger rollers does not necessarily equate better results!

HTH's Smile

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:58 am

Mars wrote:

Hi, Everyone, I'm taking in all the valuable information. I would LOVE to roll more than once a week but, since I have the 1.5, I'm going to try very hard to refrain myself. Angel

How goes the battle of refraining, Mars! Wink

Somehow I sense there might be a lot of "should I or shouldn't I" going on right now with your derma roller - LOL!

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:10 am

Scotlass, I appreciate the detailed description of how you roll and I had a question. You recommended a cool face mask/cloth afterwards but I thought it was important to put your skin active product on while the needle holes were still open (which is less than 20 mins I believe.) Because of this, I've been rolling half my face then applying my C serum or other active, so I don't miss that "window," then I do the other half. What are your thoughts on applying topicals after rolling with the 1.5mm?

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:19 am

catski wrote:

How long does a roller last? How do we know if we need a new roller?

I think this really depends on the brand you own and where you are using your roller (i.e., face alone or face and body). The skin on your body is much thicker than the skin on your face, neck (and to a degree decolletage). So the needles do wear down somewhat faster when you're rolling all over, versus the face alone.

For those who have the stainless-steel medical grade rollers, I read that you should be able to use these models for a good 6 months (with proper care) before they need to be replaced. This means you should get around 180 rolling sessions, plus or minus, out of these rollers.

If you feel you need to push harder with your roller and/or notice additional blood spots on your face after a roll (and you've used your roller multiple times), I would consider a new one. There is no hard and fast rule about gauging the dullness of the needles, so it sounds as if it all boils down to quality and the number of proposed roles set forth by the manufacturer.

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:46 am

mountaingirl wrote:

Scotlass, I appreciate the detailed description of how you roll and I had a question. You recommended a cool face mask/cloth afterwards but I thought it was important to put your skin active product on while the needle holes were still open (which is less than 20 mins I believe.) Because of this, I've been rolling half my face then applying my C serum or other active, so I don't miss that "window," then I do the other half.

What are your thoughts on applying topicals after rolling with the 1.5mm?

Hi Mountaingirl - I was just confirming for OzGal that she could use a cotton face mask after a rolling session, if she wanted to. She didn't say whether or not the cotton face mask contained vitamins or actives, etc., but either way, the answer would still be 'yes' to her specific question. Some people do not like to use any products after they roll for at least an hour or longer because they feel more comfortable applying their actives after the holes have completely closed (this is a missed opportunity, IMO, but hey, everyone has their own comfort levels about how they'd like to use their derma rollers Smile

).

In terms of making sure that you have an adequate window of opportunity to apply your actives before the holes close; have you considered applying your active BEFORE you perform an intensive roll with your 1.5 mm instead of afterwards? I've been mulling over this issue for weeks now and done some more research and have concluded that if you truly want to make sure you are obtaining the most out of the actives/topicals you've been using afterwards, then this reversal of application is the way to go! As the roller is set in motion once it makes contact with your skin, the needles will *gather* your actives from your skin as you are rolling each strip of skin. The *loaded* roller then re-deposits the active directly into the layer of skin you are trying to reach. So, if you want to reach the dermis for optimal results, then apply the vitamin or protein or growth factor or peptide, etc., first and use the 1.5 mm to deliver it for total penetration. On the other hand, if you want to deliver a product to the upper or middle layers of the skin, and not the dermis, then apply your topical and use the 0.5 mm or 1.0 mm rollers to push it to the desired location.

Now this is not to say that there is anything wrong with the way you are doing things at the moment, since applying products immediately after a roll is a good plan, too! However, I have since discovered that even though the skin contains *holes* within the first half + hour of rolling and that they will increase the permeability of the skins surface, we are still relying on the actual molecules in the topical to deliver themselves once we apply the product after a session. Sure, we know some of the topical is transfusing after we've rolled because there are occasions when we can feel the topical penetrating more than we did before. But what if you obtained benefits that were 1000% greater instead of 90% by ensuring that the topical you're using is fully delivered into the skin layer that will benefit from it the most, instead of hoping that it reaches it's desired destination!?! This is what has me intrigued in a HUGE way and why I am completely re-vamping the way I use topicals when I roll now. Initially, I thought it would make sense to prep the skin with a smaller roller first, then apply my topical so that it has time to soak into the new channels I just created, then perform a full rolling session with the 1.5 mm to push and deliver everything further. Now I realise that I may not need the extra step of prepping my skin with the smaller roller and can apply my topical directly to clean skin first and then roll away!

This process certainly streamlines your routine as you can apply your topical to the section you want to roll first, then go at it (

), then move to the next area and repeat.

Okay, I think that extra cup of coffee to wake me up this morning has made me more than a wee bit excitable! LOL!!!

Once you've finished rolling your actives into your skin and waited for the holes to close (or not!), you can then add a chilled soothing cloth face mask to calm and refresh your skin. Gosh, that sounds so good I think I'll try that after my next roll! I'm all about creating as close to a spa-like experience as possible with my beloved derma rollers!

Mountaingirl - If you do decide to try and roll your topicals into your skin, please let us know what your impressions were!

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:15 am

scotlas,
In your response to me, you said it is best to wait an hour to put on the cp. Is cp not an active?

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:52 am

sherryf13500 wrote:

scotlas,
In your response to me, you said it is best to wait an hour to put on the cp. Is cp not an active?

Yes, it is an active.....one that can cause SIGNIFICANT damage to your skin if it isn't used properly. For instance, it can and WILL cause scar collagen to develop instead of healthy new collagen if it comes into contact with a 'wound' (meaning injured skin) that is bloody or oozing. Have you used CP's for long? Because these products do have risks associated with them on their own, and the risk-factor is compounded by combining them with the use of a derma roller.

I have had several conversations directly with Skinbiology (the makers of the CP's you are using) regarding the use of their products WITH derma rollers. They do not advise you roll their products directly into your skin or even apply any of them immediately after a session. I am passing along the very information that they gave to me - go slowly, go cautiously, and do not take any chances with a full strength CP until you have diluted it with water and tested it out for any reactions. They advise you wait upwards of one hour after a rolling session to ensure that the skin isn't oozing or weeping in any way, as this is the very situation that will trigger damaged tissue to develop in place of healthy collagen. And you will not realize or be able to stop the development of scar tissue from forming until it is too late.

HTH's...

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:14 am

Okay, so I should not roll and put CP on my skin. what is the best to use? Vit c?

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:21 am

mountaingirl wrote:

Does anyone get a slight "popping" when rolling?...like it is breaking through a sealed surface. I can't articulate this, but I do feel like the needles don't just slip into the skin, rather they "break" through. This is most apparent on my forehead. Also wanted to mention, I am going with the big guns after rolling, applying undiluted Tetrahexyldecyl Abscorbate then some Emu oil on top. This form of Vit C is supposed to have the best skin lightening properties of all the C's and is oil soluable, so Emu works well with it. I do have to say though, my face was a bit flushed all day today, after rolling then applying the Tetra C last night.

Mountaingirl - What concentration of Tetrahexyldecyl Abscorbate are you using and where did you purchase it? TIA!

Oh, BTW, the popping sounds you are hearing are from scar tissue strands breaking down beneath the surface of your skin. Apparently the popping sound is a good thing and is quite common and nothing to be alarmed by. Smile

free skin care · Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:36 am

lillilulu wrote:

ScotsLass, thanks for the detailed explanation as to why rolling should only be done for 6 weeks. I have done my 6 rolls, and was going to continue, but now I understand WHY my skin needs a break. I also agree about only rolling once a week as when I got over zealous, my skin looked terrible, whereas it responded really well to once weeky use. My skin definitely looks so much better now, I am so pleased I took the plunge and bought the 1.5. By the way, has anyone who has had collagen fillers put in, used the larger roller? My friend wants to try it, but she has fillers put in every 6 months and is worried that this would break it down or dissolve it.

You're very welcome, lillilulu, glad some of the info was helpful! And I am so happy to hear that you are pleased with the initial results from your roller. Smile

More results should develop over time, which I find quite exciting as this gives you something else to look forward to!

I will have to look into the filler issue further because I have no idea where the filler actually resides in the skin, and if the rollers will damage it at all (and I may want to try fillers at some point, so this is an excellent question!). I believe that AnnieR has Resty or Botox injected (can't remember which one Confused

), and she hasn't had any problems using her derma roller over the injected sites.

What type of filler is your friend using?

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