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Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:01 pm  |
Hi everyone:
My question may seem like an obvious one, but I am really quite perplexed by some of the things I experienced while trying different moisturizers. I'm not very knowledgeable about the different types of moisturizers (humecants, occlusives, emollients and...I think there's one more) but I wonder if climate dictates which moisturizer works best. I live in a very dry climate and I find that the oils that everyone seems to love just doesn't work well for me. I tried using jojoba oil as a body moisturizer because I heard such great things about it, but I find it moisturizes for an hour or so and then I notice my skin becomes quite dry and parched. I believe jojoba oil would be classified as an emollient? Correct me if I'm wrong. My face is sensitive, dehydrated and oily and blemish-prone. I wonder what would be the most appropriate and effective moisturizer given that I live in very dry climate that has bitter-cold winters and average summers (I'm in Calgary Canada by the way). Would moisturizers that attract water (such as glycerin) be effective or should I try occlusive moisturizers that provide a protective barrier to the skin? or a combination of all? Sigh...I would really love to hear everyone's opinion. |
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Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:19 pm |
| LL, I used to live up in COld Lake and Edmonton! You are right. Moisturizer use could be based on season change or whatever is happening to your skin at the moment and whether its dry, oily or combination. Skin care is not static. Generally, in the hot dry days of summer, sunblock always and in the evening something very light. In the dead of winter especially in Alberta, use sunblock during the day and something a bit richer at night. Hope this helps somewhat. |
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Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:22 pm |
Good question LL.
Lately I've also become aware that some of the natural oils don't seem to stop TEWL (trans epidermal water loss) very effectively so I'm planning on adding some other skin barrier elements to my natural oils; Ceramide 3; Ceramide 6 II; Ceramide 1; Phytosphingosine; Cholesterol. Plus, as a result of a recent discussion about HA I'm trying glycerin instead as a humectant. It seems HA's water absorbancy is unnaturally high, whereas glycerin's water binding ratio is about the same as the skin's natural functioning. I came across CeraVe online, which is extremely cheap but has a good level of ceramides in it - you might like to give it a shot - a lot of DIYers are using it as a base for their actives. If I was in the US I would.
Look out for TheresaL; she has very similar skin and climate to you and I know she's been looking into skin barrier stuff too.
I don't see her around lately, you might like to PM her if she doesn't show up.
HTH Molly  |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:10 am |
| LL, I'm not a DIYer or kitchen chemist, but I can tell you a resounding YES regarding climate and skin care. I moved from central Ontario to south Texas almost 3 yrs ago when I married and NOTHING I brought with me worked in my new climate. I went from the same temp extremes that you live with to a place which is always hot and humid for 10 months of the year. For the other two months, it's like late fall. As an occasional treat, sometimes it's hot and dry. |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:07 am |
Hi
I wasn't suggesting you make your own. I show those ingredients as things to look for in a good moisturiser. The CeraVe is a moisturiser on it's own with a good level of ceramides. I just came across it by way of DIYers.
I forgot about the question in your title; yes, a phenominal difference; I've lived in the dryest city on earth (Beijing) and one of the most humid (Guangzhou) and your skin's needs are totally different. |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 am |
Thanks for everyone's response.
Molly: I recently purchased the HA serum from EDS and now I'm a little concerned about it's effect on my skin. I'm really happy that you spoke about TEWL because I was concerned about water loss from botanical oils, but didn't know its specfic name. You seem very educated about the different types of moisturizers. From experience, it seems like my skin definitely needs something to "hold" the water in because I find that when I use shea butter or botanical oils, my skin becomes parched within an hour or two. I looked up the CerRave lotion that you mentioned but I live in Canada and it doesn't sell to Canada. I wonder if you could recommend another lotion with similar effects/ingredients?
Cheers and how can I get a hold of TeresaL? |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 am |
Thanks for everyone's response.
Molly: I recently purchased the HA serum from EDS and now I'm a little concerned about it's effect on my skin. I'm really happy that you spoke about TEWL because I was concerned about water loss from botanical oils, but didn't know its specfic name. You seem very educated about the different types of moisturizers. From experience, it seems like my skin definitely needs something to "hold" the water in because I find that when I use shea butter or botanical oils, my skin becomes parched within an hour or two. I looked up the CerRave lotion that you mentioned but I live in Canada and it doesn't sell to Canada. I wonder if you could recommend another lotion with similar effects/ingredients?
Cheers and how can I get a hold of TeresaL? |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:23 am |
| I use different moisturizers in the summer and in the colder months. I'd like to suggest the Dove line of moisturizers for the cold season-- the sensitive essentials line is good, and zi've also used the Deep Moisture Day lotion with an spf. In the summer I use a lighter moisturizer geared more towards oilier skin types, like the Murad Pomegranate one. |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:53 am |
Different moisturizer needed for different climates
of course!
I use lotion in spring and summer, cream in autumn and winter. |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:01 pm |
Hi LL
To be honest I don't know that much and as I've only started to look for things with these other factors so I can't recommend anything from experience.
I was looking at Olay's Regenerist today and thinking it had all the right things, but I've never liked any Olay products previously on the grounds of ickiness so I can't recommend it.
Are you looking for your body or your face? Theresa, like Violetanne, said some Dove products were looking good. I think she must have meant for the body because I don't see any good ones for the face.
I don't know if you saw this thread about HA causing dryness so if you didn't
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=21688&start=0
I'll PM Theresa and see if she'll drop by. |
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Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:48 pm |
Hi LL! Our skin types DO sound very much alike. In fact I would use the exact same terms that you did to describe my skin type. I suppose we are different in that I live in the desert and am usually dealing with HOT and dry while you climate is a little cooler but where I live it does get a little cool in the winter too.
I have only used plain oils or mostly oil based moisturizers by themselves on a few occasions and this just does not work for me. By the time I moisturize my face it has already lost a lot of water and needs more water not just oil which is why I think that using just emolients is not a good idea for me. For quite a while now I have been following the double moisturizing meathod. Step one is a light serum like hydrator applied 15 minutes or so after my actives (RetinA or Vitamin C when I used it) then step two is a heavier moisturizer with some emolients in it. I have even started misting with LRP thermal water before applying my step one moisturizer since the wait time after actives allows so much moisture to escape from my skin. I think the key is hydrate the skin with a mist and step one hydrator and then to seal that in with the second moisturizer. I do use a lighter second step moisturizer during the day and then add a sunscreeen on top of it but sometimes I will use the heavier mositurizer for daytime-it really depends on how my skin feels.
I am not really a fan of HA since I have found that this is drying for me even if I apply another moisturizer over it. I am a big fan of mosturizers that contain glycerin. This seems to work very well with my skin type. In fact my step one and step two moisturizers both contain glycerin. I don't know why this works better for me than HA but it really does and I even look for glycerin in my body moisturizers. Most of my moisturizers also contain niacinamide which is supposed to be good for barrier repair and for acne. IMO glycerin and niacinamide are ingredients worth looking for in your products.
Molly is right that I am looking into the barrier repair ingredients but I honestly don't know too much about ceramides,etc. The Dove Sensitive Essentials that violetanne mentioned contains some of these ceramides and glycerin and is one that I would like to try. Here is an link to the Dove moisturizer on drugstore.com that has the complete ingredients listed . http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=87209&catid=10209&brand=7809&trx=PLST-0-BRAND&trxp1=10209&trxp2=87209&trxp3=1&trxp4=0&btrx=BUY-PLST-0-BRAND&cmbProdBrandFilter=7809 I also am looking into some of the Olay roducts as I believe they all have niacinamide but I haven't done too much research into those yet. Right now most of my moisturizers are Kanebo Cellular Performance and Kose Sekkisei but I am not sure if those are available in Canada. They also contain squalane which may or may not be a concern for you. Some members say that this causes breakout but I really haven't noticed a difference.
I guess if anything I would highly recommend trying double moisturizing as I don't think that one product can do it all when it comes to dry climates. |
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:02 am |
Thanks TeresaL for your feedback.
I too, find glycerin works well because I take a few drops and mix it with my regular body lotion. I'm a little worried about mixing it with my face lotion because it seems sooooo thick and I'm worried it will clog my pores.
I patch tested the Dove Sensitive Lotion a while back and my nose (the area I tested) broke out a few white heads so I stopped using it. I thought my skin would do well with it but I guess not. I may try it again just in case the whiteheads were a coincidence.
I can purchase the Kanebo moisturizers that you mentioned through various Asian online retailers but I have heard that those products contain quite a bit of fragrance? Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you have the ingredients list for the Kanebo moisturizers?
Cheers |
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:40 am |
LL I have never found glycerin to be pore clogging but I know that some have. It is generally not listed as being comedogenic and I don't think that a small amount (like a few drops) would be a problem. The Kose Sekkesei Cream that I use has glycerin listed as the second ingredient and does not cause clogged pores for me. But each of us is different so you might react differently!
The Kanebo moisturizers DO contain fragrance but it is IMO not very strong. I usually cannot tolerate fragrance but most of the Kanebo products do not irritate my skin. I do have ingredient lists for alot of the Kanebo products including the moisturizers. If there is a particular one that you are interested in then let me know and I can type the ingredient list for you when I get a chance. I saw your thread on mineral oil so if that is a concern of yours not all the Kanebo moisturizers would be a good choice since alot of them do contain mineral oil.
If you try the Dove moisturizer again can you update and let me know if it causes whiteheads? Thanks. |
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:21 pm |
I've been wondering about using the skin's own barrier ingredients as the occlusive-slash-emollient ingredients in a moisturizer, too. CeraVe, Atopalm, Osmotics w/ their Creme Extreme and SkinMedica w/ their Ceratopic (which I believe licenses Osmotics tech) push this approach.
Ceramides are the largest constituent of the intercellular matrix, but some people say it's the ratio of the mix that's important. So then you need cholesterol and fatty acids, etc. too. I don't know if all these moisturizers do this. I think Atopalm advertises it does.
Also, just b/c it's the skin's barrier method, does this mean it's the best? Perhaps if you're own barrier function were impaired. But if you're skin was fine and you just lived in a dry climate, maybe just applying an inert oil would be better? Also, if you got the ratio wrong, would the skin then try to compensate by synthesizing more of some lipid whose levels you've thrown out of kilter? |
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:36 pm |
I'm with you on those thoughts RMB.
Unfortunately everyone's personal moisturising factor is going to be different and over or under doing it with some elements may well cause the skin to compensate, which is why I'm going to try DIYing it in varying small batches until I get my unique mix. Quite an interesting project
I think 'aging' does mean your skin barrier is probably less effective or even impaired though, especially if you use strong actives, whereas if I was a young thing I probably wouldn't tamper with my SB. In fact I didn't used to and hated moisturisers until I was 30 odd. |
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Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:48 pm |
TeresaL: I visited the Kanebo International website and went to the products section but did not see any moisturizers. I also went to Sasa to see if they had any Kanebo moisturizers and they don't. If you could give me the ingredients for the moisturizer that you are currently using, perhaps I can see if I would be interested in giving it a try? Thanks again for all your help!
RMB: Thanks for noting a few moisturizers that I have never heard of. After starting this thread, I believe that my skin definitely needs a good combination of emollients and occlusives because pure oils just didn't work for my skin. I'll definitely check those brands out. Are you currently using any of them and if so, what are your thoughts?
Molly: I totally agree with your assertion that everyone's skin is different. A lot of products that other people seem to do well with do not work well with me. I know my face has become so much more sensitive over the years and bad reactions seem to take forever to heal! This is why I'm so reluctant to try new products even though my current skincare products are not satisfying me. After 10 years of using the same cleanser, I tried MAC's Cleanse Off Oil because I could not find a single negative comment about it. Well...my skin definitely didn't like it.
Anyways, thanks again for everyone's feedback and I'll let you know if I find something that works for my sensitive, dehydrated and oily skin that lives in a dry climate. |
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:49 am |
| LL wrote: |
TeresaL: I visited the Kanebo International website and went to the products section but did not see any moisturizers. I also went to Sasa to see if they had any Kanebo moisturizers and they don't. If you could give me the ingredients for the moisturizer that you are currently using, perhaps I can see if I would be interested in giving it a try? Thanks again for all your help!......
Anyways, thanks again for everyone's feedback and I'll let you know if I find something that works for my sensitive, dehydrated and oily skin that lives in a dry climate. |
LL I suppose I should have mentioned that most of the Kanebo moisturizers are called "emulsions"!! I use the Cellular Performance Emulsion I & II and the Silk Moisture Polish Essence. I have others but haven't tried them yet. I also use the Kanebo Impress Emulsion II but have never seen the ingredients since it is only sold in Asia. I will post the ingredients for the CP Emulsions when I get a chance (hopefully this week).
I hope you find something that works! |
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:01 am |
| Hi LL, I don't use those moisturizers. IMHO, here's what I think you need more than anything else: A moisturizer that contains water. Please no more oil-only products. |
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