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Niacinamide - can I up the percentage?
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Molly
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:14 am      Reply with quote
I've been using niacinamide at 5% and like the results, but I'm wondering if I can use a higher percentage.

The online studies all suggest 4 or 5%, but then it says over on Smartskincare that it can be tolerated at quite high levels. It doesn't specify how high.

Then I was looking at Olay's Regenerist and the niacinamide seems to be way up on the ingredients listings; 2nd or 3rd so I'm wondering if they use a higher percentage.

Anyone know anything?
nomoreneckpain
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:35 am      Reply with quote
Molly, what product are you using with this, if you don't mind me asking. I've been thinking about adding this in, but am unsure how? Thanks.
Molly
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:58 am      Reply with quote
It's a very rough and ready brew because I don't have any emulsifiers nor preservatives.

I chuck the niacinamide and some MAP in distilled water, shake it, add a tiny sprinkle of HA powder and shake again. Voila! I use it first and slap on bio oils mixed with liquid OBGs quickly after to stop it evaporating and punch it in - hopefully.

Any water based serum should do I would have thought.
nomoreneckpain
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:58 am      Reply with quote
Thanks, Molly.
hpjrt
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:05 am      Reply with quote
Hi Molly,

I've just begun using topical glucosamine and niacinamide ... and while I like it, I haven't used it long enough to know if it's actually doing what I want it to do. Laughing

What are you hoping for from a higher concentration of niacinamide?

Thanks

Mary

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Molly
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:40 am      Reply with quote
Hi Mary
I'm hoping for more of the same. I think it might be a more subtle active for some, but as I've given up all the major players in my routine: acids, retinaldehyde and L-ascorbic for 2 months now and I did a half face test of the niacinamide for 3 weeks or so I could see a distinct improvement to the skin's surface texture; it was smoother than the other side, had more of a sheen to it (those were the main results), along with a little bit of wrinkle relief (eye corners) plus a touch of lightening.
Wild Cat
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:04 pm      Reply with quote
hpjrt wrote:
Hi Molly,

I've just begun using topical glucosamine and niacinamide ... and while I like it, I haven't used it long enough to know if it's actually doing what I want it to do. Laughing

What are you hoping for from a higher concentration of niacinamide?

Thanks

Mary


Hello Mary,
Do you use regular pure glucosamine?
Thanks,
Wild Cat

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Arielle
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:08 pm      Reply with quote
Molly,

If your skin is at all sensitive or just normally so, I wouldn't recommend going much higher than 5%. Niacinamide can be quite irritating at higher concentrations.

hth

Ari

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Molly
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Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:57 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Arielle
It's funny because I don't read that anywhere.

I do read that Niacin can cause flushing and sensitivity especially for rosacea sufferers, but I read Niacinamide is well tolerated and good for the same condition.

Would you have a link for me?

Thanks
Molly
amnis
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:50 pm      Reply with quote
Arielle wrote:
Niacinamide can be quite irritating at higher concentrations.


I'm curious about this too.

Molly, have you considered making a small tester batch of an increased % (what would you like to go up to?) and patch test a place on your body (like your arm) and if all goes well, patch test your face or neck? If you haven't found any literature on using a higher % than I would be hesitant to go up too much.

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Molly
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:39 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Amnis
Great minds think alike - I started doing that yesterday. Smile

I do suspect it might be OK because mainstream brands are usually so cautious about using high percentages of actives because they'll irritate their customers and get a bad reputation. So far it doesn't feel harmful but early days to see anything beneficial. I'll keep you posted.
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Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:54 pm      Reply with quote
Hi again Molly,

Are you looking at this for skin lightening?

If so ... a great link was posted on the SkinInteractives board about how these products actually help lighten the skin.

http://www.cosmeticsbusiness.com/story.asp?sectioncode=7&storycode=620

According to the SI member, these products work to inhibit melanin production ... so you won't see any difference until your skin cells slough off and are replaced by lighter skin cells.

This is why you can use them all over your face without experiencing uneven pigmentation.

So ... it might take a while before you'd notice whether or not the increased niacinamide was helpful or otherwise. Smile

Just thought I'd add this ... in case ... Laughing

At least I now know not to expect "instant" results from my glucosamine/niacinamide mixture! Laughing

Mary

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skincarefreak
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Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:34 pm      Reply with quote
Molly wrote:
It's a very rough and ready brew because I don't have any emulsifiers nor preservatives.

I chuck the niacinamide and some MAP in distilled water, shake it, add a tiny sprinkle of HA powder and shake again. Voila! I use it first and slap on bio oils mixed with liquid OBGs quickly after to stop it evaporating and punch it in - hopefully.

Any water based serum should do I would have thought.


Hi Molly,

I have 2 questions: where did you purchase the niacininamide and what exactly is MAP? thanks
Molly
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Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:50 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Mary - thanks for the link. Actually it was the promotion of ceramide production that interested me in the Niacinamide and I believe I'm really getting that. The slight lightening, certainly not as much as L-Ascorbic was an added bonus.

Sure Skincarefreak I got mine from www.bulkactives.com - they have a limited range of stuff, but it's the best value out there. MAP (Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate) is a commonly used C ester.

(I'm also adding a tiny drop of glycerin to the water brew which helps with penetration and stops evaporation a bit I think)
skincarefreak
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Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:25 am      Reply with quote
Molly wrote:
Hi Mary - thanks for the link. Actually it was the promotion of ceramide production that interested me in the Niacinamide and I believe I'm really getting that. The slight lightening, certainly not as much as L-Ascorbic was an added bonus.

Sure Skincarefreak I got mine from www.bulkactives.com - they have a limited range of stuff, but it's the best value out there. MAP (Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate) is a commonly used C ester.

(I'm also adding a tiny drop of glycerin to the water brew which helps with penetration and stops evaporation a bit I think)


Thanks Molly!
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Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:58 am      Reply with quote
I just ordered some with the beta glucan. Thanks again!
Pachouli
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Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:33 am      Reply with quote
I've been off the forum for a bit (studying) and missed this thread, but since I too have suddenly taken a keen interest in niacinamide*, I thought I'd share how I've been using it:

Added to 3 oz SAS canvas cream
Dissolve 1 tube coconut endosperm in 1 oz of
SKB (skin nutrition complex) - add first, mix in
1 tsp niacinamide - add second, gently fold in
1 EGF kit – add last, gently fold in

I really like the ultralight consistency of this cream and I seem to have seen results pretty quickly. (But of course how much is placebo effect or wishful thinking?) I feel I am covering 3 important bases: nourishing, brightening, and signaling. I've been alternating with CPs, or even layering. I also took out about an ounce and added glucosamine to try out a new active. I bought the SKB from the herbarie.

*Either great minds think alike or weak minds are easily manipulated by product advertising. I prefer the former to the latter.
skincarefreak
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Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:00 pm      Reply with quote
Pachouli wrote:
I've been off the forum for a bit (studying) and missed this thread, but since I too have suddenly taken a keen interest in niacinamide*, I thought I'd share how I've been using it:

Added to 3 oz SAS canvas cream
Dissolve 1 tube coconut endosperm in 1 oz of
SKB (skin nutrition complex) - add first, mix in
1 tsp niacinamide - add second, gently fold in
1 EGF kit – add last, gently fold in

I really like the ultralight consistency of this cream and I seem to have seen results pretty quickly. (But of course how much is placebo effect or wishful thinking?) I feel I am covering 3 important bases: nourishing, brightening, and signaling. I've been alternating with CPs, or even layering. I also took out about an ounce and added glucosamine to try out a new active. I bought the SKB from the herbarie.

*Either great minds think alike or weak minds are easily manipulated by product advertising. I prefer the former to the latter.


what changes have you seen in your skin since you've added the niacinimide?
Molly
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Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:50 pm      Reply with quote
skincarefreak wrote:
what changes have you seen in your skin since you've added the niacinimide?

I know you're asking Patchouli and maybe you read my results already, but I thought I'd add to this thread as it seems to have generated some interested.

I can't have imagined my results because I did a half face test with the Niacinamide. It was 3 weeks or longer and I only started to see results once I used it daily (sometimes twice daily). It was mostly the surface texture of the skin that seemed improved - it had something of a natural sheen and smoothness to it, which has been lacking in the last couple of years. Secondary to this was it seemed better moisturised and there was some brightening but not on a par with exfoliation or L-Ascorbic. (both of which I've given up lately as an experiment).

If you're doing lots of other intense things to your skin I think you might be hard pressed to notice the difference - it's subtle, but worthwhile for me as I'm focusing more on a healthy skin barrier rather than build, build, build that collagen.
Molly
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:24 am      Reply with quote
forgot......and refined pores.
Wild Cat
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:35 am      Reply with quote
Molly,
I have a silly question (I am a math retard) Mad
How did you figure out 5% to add into your mix?
What else are in your mix?
Thanks first,
Wild Cat

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skincarefreak
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:15 am      Reply with quote
Molly wrote:
skincarefreak wrote:
what changes have you seen in your skin since you've added the niacinimide?

I know you're asking Patchouli and maybe you read my results already, but I thought I'd add to this thread as it seems to have generated some interested.

I can't have imagined my results because I did a half face test with the Niacinamide. It was 3 weeks or longer and I only started to see results once I used it daily (sometimes twice daily). It was mostly the surface texture of the skin that seemed improved - it had something of a natural sheen and smoothness to it, which has been lacking in the last couple of years. Secondary to this was it seemed better moisturised and there was some brightening but not on a par with exfoliation or L-Ascorbic. (both of which I've given up lately as an experiment).

If you're doing lots of other intense things to your skin I think you might be hard pressed to notice the difference - it's subtle, but worthwhile for me as I'm focusing more on a healthy skin barrier rather than build, build, build that collagen.


Oh...ok. Thank you Molly!
Molly
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:41 pm      Reply with quote
Wild Cat wrote:
Molly,
I have a silly question (I am a math retard) Mad
How did you figure out 5% to add into your mix?
What else are in your mix?
Thanks first,
Wild Cat

It's timely you should ask about the percentage Smile I'm a DIY newbie and until yesterday had to rely on teaspoon measurements. I got the quantity from SAS for 4 oz and then worked it down to my small sizes, but then I started weighing it all with my pocket scale and that measurement isn't nearly enough for 5% so I've been seriously under-using all along.

Let's see what happens now I'm using the proper percentage.

I think this is the post (Liz on skininteractive) I found most helpful working out percentages
http://skininteractive.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=antioxidants&action=display&thread=1154042971&page=1

What else am I using. I'm really experimenting at the moment so it changes from day to day, but I finally made my first proper oil/water/actives, all in one moisturiser yesterday and it currently contains: Emu, pomegranate seed oil, borage oil, water, liquid OBGs, Vit E, Vitamin Pro B5, MAP, Tetra, HA, glycerin, Polysorbate 85 - YIKES Confused

it's worked out luverly for me Very Happy
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:52 pm      Reply with quote
Molly,
the link you provided didn't lead to a specific thread on percentage.

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Molly
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:14 pm      Reply with quote
Tried again, for some reason it just won't link to the page - let me work it out.
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