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Niacinamide - can I up the percentage?
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Molly
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:19 pm      Reply with quote
http://skininteractive.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=antioxidants&action=display&thread=1154042971

Nope, it just defaults to the 'antioxidant' forum. That's the right forum - scroll down to the bottom of page 1 and it's in the thread "map" started by "zoe".
Wild Cat
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:43 pm      Reply with quote
doesn't work still ><

p.s. ooooops...now i found it. Thanks Molly.

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Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:48 am      Reply with quote
skincarefreak wrote:
what changes have you seen in your skin since you've added the niacinimide?


I had a few dark spots from old acne on my neck and side of chin and forehead that I wanted to address. That is why I tried the niacinamide. They have for the most part now faded - pretty quickly. To be honest, I don't know if I can tickle apart what aspect of the cream is causing the good effect. But the niacinamide is the latest addition. Also, as I mentioned, I have added glucosamine to a trial cream. I am going to keep using now that I have heard of Molly's results as I wasn't really looking for those changes from the niacinamide but they would be very welcome.

BTW, it also causes my face to be flushed pink for about an hour or two after application. I am using 1 tsp in 4 oz cream (the suggested usage by SAS), but I have not yet calculated the percentage. Perhaps I am using too much. Or perhaps my skin is just sensitive at this time -I did a TCA peel a few weeks ago and I just had sculptra. And I don't know if it's really the cream causing the flush. I use a sublingual B-complex too. Might be the combination.
Molly
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:00 am      Reply with quote
Just like Patchouli, now I've got it at the proper percentage it's making my face a little red at first too - not sure I'm too pleased about that Sad BTW, I'm not exactly saying that the SAS measurement is out - I may have overcompensated on the side of caution when I was downsizing because I don't like irritation.
Pachouli
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:13 pm      Reply with quote
Molly, I didn't think you meant that. And who the heck knows how SAS came up with their recommendation. I think it might be too high for my face. I think in the end a person has to adjust what is best for them since we all have skins with unique chemistries. To me that is the beauty of DIY. Can I ask how you are using percent? That is, are you using %W/W, %W/V, or %V/V? With solutions, I am usually more comfortable thinking in concentrations (g solute/ ml soln) and would like to figure the percent.
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:07 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Molly,

So ... what is the percentage that you're using now?

Is the blush you're experiencing a "niacin flush"? I know that when I took niacin orally, it would cause a flush ... but I thought niacinamide was supposed to be "flush free"?

If not a niacin flush ... is it a result of it being a greater percentage?

This thread is very interesting, by the way. Very Happy

Mary

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Molly
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:30 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Mary

(Sshh, I'm hiding from Patchouli until I fathom all those equation looking things in the question above Embarassed)

I heard Niacin could cause redness, but I too thought Niacinamide didn't. I've used all the other ingredients before so it can't be them.

I more certain that the percentage I'm using now is hitting 5%.

Before, looking at the quantity I put in it this time, it must have been half of that or less.
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:49 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Molly

Quote:
(Sshh, I'm hiding from Patchouli until I fathom all those equation looking things in the question above )


Laughing I know what you mean. Laughing

Patchouli's ease with equations is really scaring me! Laughing [I personally am numerically challenged ... thank heavens for calculators! Laughing ]

I just might have to get in on this experiment. Smile

Oh ... and ... do you love your pocket scale yet? Very Happy I just adore mine ... and if I can figure out the logistics, I'm even planning on using it to weigh the puppies that we're expecting any minute now! Smile

Mary

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Pachouli
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:19 pm      Reply with quote
Molly wrote:
(Sshh, I'm hiding from Patchouli until I fathom all those equation looking things in the question above Embarassed)

Laughing HeeHeeeee. There are different ways to calculate percentage and concentration:
% of weight of solute in total weight of the solution
% of weight of solute in total volume of solution
% of volume of solute in total volume of solution.
Just tell me how you calculate your percent and I will know which equation thingy applies.

Molly wrote:
I heard Niacin could cause redness, but I too thought Niacinamide didn't. I've used all the other ingredients before so it can't be them.

They both act as vasodilators. Niacinamide is converted to niacin by the body. I noticed my flush does not come on immediately, and gets progressively pinker.
amnis
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:37 pm      Reply with quote
Pachouli wrote:
Molly, I didn't think you meant that. And who the heck knows how SAS came up with their recommendation. I think it might be too high for my face. I think in the end a person has to adjust what is best for them since we all have skins with unique chemistries. To me that is the beauty of DIY. Can I ask how you are using percent? That is, are you using %W/W, %W/V, or %V/V? With solutions, I am usually more comfortable thinking in concentrations (g solute/ ml soln) and would like to figure the percent.


I might be able to answer your concentration conversion question (if I'm understanding you correctly...)

1tsp of niacinamide in 4oz of cream yields an approximate 4.2% concentration (0.1667oz niacinamide per 4oz base or, i.e., 0.042oz niacinamide per 1oz base). In SAS's recommended dose, it works out to be 0.625g per 1tsp (there are 8 tsp in their 5g jar of niacinamide based on their note that there is enough niacinamide in their 5g jar for 32oz of cream). Therefore in a 4oz base it will yield 0.156g/oz which gives you your concentration in terms of grams.

Is this what you were trying to figure out?

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Pachouli
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:01 pm      Reply with quote
amnis wrote:
Pachouli wrote:
Molly, I didn't think you meant that. And who the heck knows how SAS came up with their recommendation. I think it might be too high for my face. I think in the end a person has to adjust what is best for them since we all have skins with unique chemistries. To me that is the beauty of DIY. Can I ask how you are using percent? That is, are you using %W/W, %W/V, or %V/V? With solutions, I am usually more comfortable thinking in concentrations (g solute/ ml soln) and would like to figure the percent.


I might be able to answer your concentration conversion question (if I'm understanding you correctly...)

1tsp of niacinamide in 4oz of cream yields an approximate 4.2% concentration (0.1667oz niacinamide per 4oz base or, i.e., 0.042oz niacinamide per 1oz base). In SAS's recommended dose, it works out to be 0.625g per 1tsp (there are 8 tsp in their 5g jar of niacinamide based on their note that there is enough niacinamide in their 5g jar for 32oz of cream). Therefore in a 4oz base it will yield 0.156g/oz which gives you your concentration in terms of grams.

Is this what you were trying to figure out?


No. I actually didn't have a question on conversions or how to calculate percent by mass. That was what I was already comfortable doing. My question was how Molly was calculating her percentage in solution.
Molly
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:16 pm      Reply with quote
Pachouli wrote:

% of weight of solute in total weight of the solution

OK, I'll come out of the closet and say I'm doing it as above.

I suppose the flushing might be a sign it's working then - maybe I'll switch to night use.
Molly
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Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:30 am      Reply with quote
Hi there fellow Niacinamide conspirateurs!

How's it going for you Mary, Patchouli and others?

I think it's just about a week since I got the proper percentage in my concoction and I really think I'm getting results. I'm half hoping from what I've seen already that this is going to replace Ystheal for me (which I've given up for the time being, but well you know....).

I do believe I'm getting thicker skin including the corneal layer, but in an attractive way not some old crusty dead stuff Laughing This would be just about right for me. I'm thinking it'll protect me better in the sun this summer. I felt very thin skinned and sensitive last year.

(I put a few more drops of oil in and a dash of SKB and the flush seemed to go down to an active tingle)
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Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:29 am      Reply with quote
Molly can I ask you, do you think it appropriate to use Niacinamide at the same time as using cp's?

I saw at SAS I think it was, that someone had great lightening success with Niacinamide with Glutathione, and I have been looking at NIA24 and am very wanting to try it.

I am using super cp serum at night, and it's really doing wonders for my skin. Every few nights I use eluage. My skin is looking good, but I'd like some extra lightening and smoothing.

Do you think a niacinamide mix would fit into this routine?
Molly
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Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:41 pm      Reply with quote
It's hard to say Catski. Would depend on your skin I suppose.

Based on the receptor theory it seems fine and good and it doesn't feel like a harsh treatment so why not?

Whether you'll notice it in amongst the rest I'm not sure.

I'm with you on the Nia24; don't those skin sections look amazing. I'm thinking of adding Retinyl Palmitate based on their ingredients listing. I still think some kind of Vit A is really important for anti-aging but I'd been wondering just what kind and how much I could add without thinning my SB - I read over on skininteractive that they use 0.5%.

I wonder what the difference between pro-niacin, niacin and niacinamide is though?

I think I'll get some if I go away this summer. My DIY stuff is a little volatile and needs to be fresh.
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Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:54 am      Reply with quote
Just peeking in here to see if any of you have updates on your use of niacinamide? Smile I ordered some from GOW along with green tea extract and the veggie base cream w/ azulene (i'm hopping to get a better handle on my peely sensative skin since starting retin-a micro).

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Pachouli
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Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:28 pm      Reply with quote
Suk Han,

Here is the recipe for my multi-purpose cream.

Add following to 3 oz canvas cream:
2 g (1/2 tsp) Niacinamide – add first, mix well
5 g (1 tsp) of N-acetyl glucosamine – mix in *
Coconut endosperm + SKB (skin nutrition complex) = dissolve 1 tube coconut endosperm in 2 tbsp of SKB - gently add this mixture to canvas cream **
1 EGF kit – gently fold in last

*This makes approx a 4% glucosamine/2% niacinamide mixture as used in this study: http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/521680/#imagetop
**My cream also incorporates nutrition (CE+SKB) and signaling (EGF), but you can leave these out, just use 4 oz of base instead.
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Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:40 pm      Reply with quote
Pachouli:

Thank you for your recipe. Is SKB = sea kelp?

Thank you!
Suk Han
Pachouli
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Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:58 pm      Reply with quote
Yes. It is Sea Kelp Bioferment.

Also, since it makes such a large batch, I scoop some out and keep in a 1/2 oz jar in the bathroom. The rest I store in my butter compartment in the refrigerator.
Suk Han
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Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:15 pm      Reply with quote
Did your dark spots get lighter? How long have you been using this cream. How do you like it?

Thanks,
Suk Han
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Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:43 pm      Reply with quote
I have been using it since March or so. I had hyperpigmentation on my neck and chin from old acne. That faded quite nicely. It also helped with sun freckles on my chest. I have some marks on my arm now - healed scratches from an overzealous puppy - that I am working on. I seem to hyperpigment very easily from just about anything: bug bites, scratches, acne, the pill, the sun.
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