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Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:41 am  |
After reading the article by Paula Begoun (which I know is biased but it does have some interesting facts and I didn't feel it was as negative as some of you thought it was) I wanted to ask whether Zinc Oxide and Titanium Oxide is really as occlusive as she says it is. Most MMU is comprised of those two and Mica thus if it really is occlusive - does using MMU really allow my skin to breathe better than regular makeup? I'm not talking about liquid foundation since I never liked using those, but what about powder foundation? I've never had problems with breakouts with my powder foundations and even if I take a nap in it during the day I wake up with the same skin as I do if I nap with MMU on. I know there are a lot more fillers and chemicals in a traditional foundation, but does those ingredients pose an occlusive barrier to prevent your skin from oxygen? If ZiO and TiO are occlusive it would explain why I get those tiny bumps on my face that I don't get with regular makeup and why those tiny bumps vary with MMU (diff amount of those ingredients in diff brands). Would love to hear more opinions on this issue and those who know more about these 2 ingredients than me.
TIA |
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Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:53 am |
| I am not a scientist nor am I a dermatologist. I am a 50 yr old woman who has been fascinated with skin care since age 12... using it, trying different ones, selling it, teaching it to customers. Here's what I know: after using MMU for almost a month now, my skin looks better than it has in years. Yesterday, my adorable but completely unobservant husband said "Your makeup looks good today." I hadn't put it on yet! Using MMU is the ONLY change I have made up till now. Are the ingredients occlusive? I have oily, cystic acne-prone skin. If my pores were being blocked, you'd see the results from across the room. When it comes to this subject, people tend to line up on opposite sides with no one in the middle. I know which side I'm on. |
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Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:55 am |
Would this also mean that sunscreen is occlusive?
I really have no idea. 
I wonder if ANY foundation actually allows the skin to breathe...I put so much gosh darn stuff on my face that I'm probably slowly suffocating to death. 
ETA: I used to follow Paula's suggestions to a T...while it didn't greatly improve my skin, I still keep bits of her information in mind when I shop. The best for me was getting away from bar cleansers...she mentioned that the typical ingredient used to keep bars in "bar form" is a pore-clogger and in my experience I think she is right on that. |
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32, Fair Skin, combo/break-out prone. Simple routine of REN No. 1 Purity Cleansing Balm and Argan oil as a moisturizer; Clarisonic when needed. That's it! |
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Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:16 am |
I'm not sure about occlusiveness, but I do know that physical sunscreens (z0 and ti02) are best for those with sensitive, reactive skin--so I would assume that those ingredients in a powder form would be harmless as well. Since you're prone to congestion, sormuimui, I'm not exactly sure if the above applies--but I do think that your initial hunch about those fillers/chemicals in the foundations and in other powders is correct--MMU has got to be better for you than those products.
--avalange |
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http://newnaturalbeauty.tumblr.com/ 37, light-toned olive skin, broken caps, normal skin. My staples: Osea cleansing milk, Algae Oil, Advanced Protection Cream, Eyes & Lips, Tata Harper, Julie Hewett makeup, Amazing Cosmetics Powder, & By Terry Light Expert, Burnout, and daily inversion therapy and green smoothies! |
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Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:46 am |
| I think MMU is less occlusive and "suffocating" than normal foundations, which are chock-full of weird chemicals and fillers. But if you're prone to congested skin, then I don't think I'd regularly go to bed wearing MMU. I think easily-congested skin benefits from being washed twice daily with a gentle cleanser and having all night to "breathe". I have gone to bed wearing my MMU, and did not have any problems, but I only do this very occasionally and I made sure I cleansed my face thoroughly in the morning. |
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Light, yellow undertones, dark hair & eyes, extremely combo., resistant skin prone to congestion, dryness AND breakouts! |
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Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:18 pm |
Wanted to clarify - what exactly do people mean when they say "normal foundation"? For me I only use powder foundation (MMU or regular) and I know liquid is definitely bad for your skin and masks it pretty badly. I've tried gel cream types as well and those turn out pretty nice as my skin actually feels a bit hydrated. Obviously I do not believe a lot of PB's claims but honestly a lot of what she said in the article did apply to me. I really wanted to use MMU because I believe it would be better for my skin and lets my skin breathe better, less ingredients less possible congestion and less acne but honestly I do NOT see a difference. Now I'd have to say I see a difference in using MMU concealer and regular concealer in terms of acne popping up in the area I try to conceal (even JI disappear makes me slightly more congested even though it's supposed to be good for acne) but with ONLY foundation, I haven't had that much luck with MMU. I get those tiny bumps with MMU which I have NEVER gotten in my life wearing regular powder foundation. My skin looks way more natural (less powdery and cakey) since with regular foundation I put on 1 layer of good coverage and do the rest with concealer. With MMU I have to layer and layer and then use more in problem areas which no matter how much I spritz or how thin a layer I apply I always look powdery and not that "natural". I get way more bumps with LauRess than Alima and no bumps with Lumiere. That is why I felt that ziO/TiO might be occlusive. I can't be sure but it's the only reason that would explain everything. Of course I'm ok with using products that have a lower percentage in them. I've also never used ss with zinc - I use Clarins and the only active ingredient is TiO.
Perhaps they are occlusive but only pose a problem for me if they're the MAIN ingredients that make up the product. I certainly have no problems with these if they're lower down on the ingredient list (regular powder foundation, Lumiere, etc). And could it be that because there are so much more fillers/chemicals in traditional foundation that there's less ZiO/TiO in it so I don't have the bumpy problem? Oh and I'm talking about those bumps that disappear after I wash my face, not actual milia that won't go away.
This is so confusing to me. |
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Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:47 pm |
If ZiO and TiO are occlusive it would explain why I get those tiny bumps on my face that I don't get with regular makeup and why those tiny bumps vary with MMU (diff amount of those ingredients in diff brands).
that is also what I confuse |
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 5:35 am |
hhhmmmm....
sormuimui,
do you ever go without makeup at all? I know you are young and your skin looks gorgeous to me... Maybe try not wearing any at all for a bit and see if your bumps clear up... Maybe your skin just doesn't like any makeup on it.
Strange about the Lumiere, too, not breaking you out. I know that some people have the same kind of reaction to bismuth, others to mica, which is also an ingredient in most every MMU. Maybe it is also the particles that tend to aggravate your pores.
If I were you (which I'm not), I'd opt for a good TM, like the MD Skincare one (many shades, nourishing, good sun protection), or Becca. It seems that this kind of product might deliver what you need: a good moisturizer that gently evens out your skin tone and isn't occlusive, but offers sun protection. There are compromises there to be sure--the SS isn't always the highest and the coverage is not always the best, but it might be the best option...
I think the "powdery" look is awful no matter how you slice it. I was always under the impression that the ladies using MMU weren't getting heavy powdery finishes with it... Was I wrong? I know Scallawaggirl doesn't...
--avalange
p.s. I really do not think that zinc and ti02 are that comedogenic, otherwise MMU and physical SSs would not appeal so widely to their primary customer base.
ETA: What I meant to say above is that it is clear, either way, that you are having a REACTION to something in these formulations, not necessarily meaning that they are occlusive. If you put something on your face, bumps appear, and they disappear after you wash it off, that means your skin is reacting to it. All allergies get worse with time, so I'd recommend stop using those things that produce this reaction... |
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http://newnaturalbeauty.tumblr.com/ 37, light-toned olive skin, broken caps, normal skin. My staples: Osea cleansing milk, Algae Oil, Advanced Protection Cream, Eyes & Lips, Tata Harper, Julie Hewett makeup, Amazing Cosmetics Powder, & By Terry Light Expert, Burnout, and daily inversion therapy and green smoothies! |
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:35 am |
I've worn MMU for many years - and have tried a lot of different brands. What has proven to be true for me is this - any MMU that has a high % of titanium dioxide will clog my pores, cause flakiness, and generally make my skin look like crap. And yeah, those are the ones that offer the heaviest coverage. One of the worse offenders for my skin was Cory.
I've found as long as TD is not one of the first two ingredients, I'm okay. I also have to avoid bismuth oxychloride & cornstarch. Fortunately, that still leaves me with a lot of choices. My favorites for coverage, consistency, color, & staying power are Aromaleigh (the Voile) and GeoGraphx. |
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Handcrafted skincare products designed to make you feel pretty! http://www.ifeelprettyproducts.com |
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:51 pm |
avalange: my bumps are pretty clear at the moment, I figured out they were caused my dryness of skin and I don't get much anymore with the help of JM Bioclear and Osea APC. I need makeup due to my pigmentation, TM just won't give me any coverage. Honestly if I could just go with TM or loose powder that'd be ideal but I just need coverage at this point unfortunately  The bumps I get with MMU are a different story though, they just go away after I wash my face. I think Lumiere works for me because it has a lot of other ingredients (not just TiO, ZiO and Mica) + the squalane makes me more moisturizing which probably helps too. That's also an issue though, to me Lumiere probably isn't all that pure in general in terms of MMU. And Lumiere isn't even HG for me because it has a tendency to turn cakey by the end of the day (less so if I use silk dust as a finishing powder) so I'm still on the look for good makeup. I've spent a lot of money sampling MMU, that's why I'm about to give up. The powdery look probably depends on each person and how their skin reacts to MMU. But honestly I'm under the impression most ladies here don't really need all that coverage so they just layer on 1-2 sheer layers of MMU, spritz and go. Obviously if I only use that little I won't look powdery, but then I won't get much coverage either.
I know whaat you mean by reaction but I don't have this problem with many other products with the same ingredients. I've been using a physical ss with no problems at all. I don't think they're that comodogenic either but they MIGHT be if they're high on the ingredient list. Physical SS usually only have about 30% or less of it being ZiO or TiO so they don't make up most of the ingredients. Also all my powder foundations have TiO in it for SPF protection as well and they work for me. If I am allergic - would I not be allergic to all those products? That is what confuses me. Not to mention Lumiere has both those ingredients as well.
kim: Thanks it helps to know that someone else experiences the same thing. I always thought it might be the zO but now you got me thinking about the TiO. I'm going to try Mercier's MMU later on so I guess I'll find out which ingredient it is. |
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Sun Apr 08, 2007 3:55 pm |
Can anyone tell me where I can find this article mentioned at the beginning of the thread, please? Thanks.  |
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24, fair skin with larger pores, occasional acne and experiencing the first signs of aging--aagh eye crinkles! |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:09 am |
| I do find MMU is less suffocating, but it doesn't help much though. |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:19 am |
| sormuimui wrote: |
| Wanted to clarify - what exactly do people mean when they say "normal foundation"? |
By "normal", I just mean most liquid/cream foundations on the market and powder foundations that do not have solely mineral ingredients. |
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Light, yellow undertones, dark hair & eyes, extremely combo., resistant skin prone to congestion, dryness AND breakouts! |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:31 am |
I have recently realized that MMU does not work for my skin at all. I have used it exclusively for almost a year now, during that year my skin has been at its worst. I never even occured to me that MMU (b/c its touted as being "good" for you skin) could have been the offender.
Those little bumps are what finally tipped me off, Ive always been prone to breakouts and blackheads but my skin was never really that bad, I quit using MMU about a week ago and honestly my skin is looking better by the day. The bumps are finally going away!
I think that just like any other skincare product or MU, what works for some will be a disaster for others. I for one will never ever go back to MMU, IM quite thrilled with my
Laura Mercier Tinted Moisturizer. It wasnt till I tried this that I realized how bad MMU made my skin....Im glad that it works for others though.
So I guess I would have to say no, for me I dont feel that MMU let my skin breathe, in fact it was quite a nightmare with my skin type. |
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27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:38 am |
Not all MMUs are made equal. Sometimes you have to try a lot of different ones, paying attention to the main ingredients, before you find one that really works well for your skin. I have tried many, many MMUs, yet there are only 2-3 that I use on a regular basis. The others clog my pores & make my skin flaky.
Like with any other product - it's all about finding which one works best with your skin. |
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Handcrafted skincare products designed to make you feel pretty! http://www.ifeelprettyproducts.com |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:45 am |
| kim@ifeelpretty wrote: |
Not all MMUs are made equal. Sometimes you have to try a lot of different ones, paying attention to the main ingredients, before you find one that really works well for your skin. I have tried many, many MMUs, yet there are only 2-3 that I use on a regular basis. The others clog my pores & make my skin flaky.
Like with any other product - it's all about finding which one works best with your skin. |
Ive tried MANY as well, NONE worked for my skin. Im very happy with what Im using now, Im not willing to waste anymore money/time or sacrifice my skin further.
Sometimes products just dont work for everyone no matter how much they are suppose to. |
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27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:49 am |
| Quote: |
Ive tried MANY as well, NONE worked for my skin. Im very happy with what Im using now, Im not willing to waste anymore money/time or sacrifice my skin further.
Sometimes products just dont work for everyone no matter how much they are suppose to. |
I wasn't implying that you hadn't tried many - nor was I implying that you should go back to MMU. I wasn't even really directing my statement to you (which is why I didn't quote you). I was simply making a statment so that others could see that just trying one or two brands of MMU, and not having success, doesn't necessarily mean that they can't use MMU. Some people may not be aware that there is a vast difference in MMUs. |
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Handcrafted skincare products designed to make you feel pretty! http://www.ifeelprettyproducts.com |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:55 am |
| kim@ifeelpretty wrote: |
| Quote: |
Ive tried MANY as well, NONE worked for my skin. Im very happy with what Im using now, Im not willing to waste anymore money/time or sacrifice my skin further.
Sometimes products just dont work for everyone no matter how much they are suppose to. |
I wasn't implying that you hadn't tried many - nor was I implying that you should go back to MMU. I wasn't even really directing my statement to you (which is why I didn't quote you). I was simply making a statment so that others could see that just trying one or two brands of MMU, and not having success, doesn't necessarily mean that they can't use MMU. Some people may not be aware that there is a vast difference in MMUs. |
Weeeelllll, I want trying to be rude towards you either! I was simply saying (for anyone who reads this) that I have tried a lot of different brands with no sucess. I wanted people to understand its ok to stop wasting money on samples if MMU simply isnt working for you---that they may never find a brand that does.
Thats all!  |
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27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:05 pm |
After nearly three full years of going back and forth and spending tons and tons of money on MMU, I was about ready to give up as well b/c I had the case of the bumpies as well. First, with Jane Iredale and I attributed that to the bismuth b/c not only did I have bumpies but man did my face get itchy in the heat and such. So, then it became a quest to find the HG MMU, and I'd settle for a while, then my skin would get dehydrated, or flakey, or bumpy, so I'd move on. In between, I'd switch back to liquid and just feel so "goopy" with it on. I also liked the coverage of MMU better as I have a couple of melasma splotches that are much easier covered with MMU. Then, as my final last ditch effort, I tried Lumiere. So you think it'd be a happy ending right? Nope. I'm still not convinced that my skin is right for mmu either, so I'm trying Vonstella's experiment....I'm just gonna try going MMU-free for the week and see if my face looks any better. I'm in my forties now and I know my skin is going through some hormonal changes, but I'm just not sure if the MMU is a contributing factor. I do all the right things like exfoliating, moisturising, etc., etc...but, yet here I am....
I did go to my Sephora today to try a sample of LM's MMU. I am almost certain I'd react from the bismuth, but I have to get it out of my system! I actually wanted to try her foundation. Unforunately, I didn't love the tinted moisturiser. I had ordered it before Christmas and ended up sending it back, but that's b/c I think I need a little more. There's a silk foundation she has that I was wanted to try. Anyway, my Sephora doesn't carry it either so that became a moot point.
I did buy Cover Girl's Advanced Radiance TM, and you know....it ain't half bad, but it covers NOTHING - just kind of even outs your skin, but very blendable. I did put a little bit of MMU powder over my melasma patches, but no where else. I also used a MAC blush today and will continue to do so with my experiment.
I'll keep you all posted on my little experiment. In all honesty, I hope it's not the MMU and just my skin being hormonal. I can deal with that. What I can't deal with is the realization that maybe I was wasting my time for all these years....nooooo!!!!! to cruel to even think about 
Wow, I sure did ramble!
xoMaria |
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Maria, early 50's, post meno, normal to dry skin, more dry in winter, some sun damage... |
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:33 am |
vonstella, sormuimui and Mariav- so sorry to hear MMU hasn't worked for you. I am starting to to wonder about this myself. I noticed getting more bumps on my cheeks... sort of like white heads working their way up to the surface of my skin (not sure it that's what they really are) and am wondering if the Alima or UGG are the culprit. I didn't seem to have as much trouble with True Cosmetics but I really don't like their ingredients in their pressed powder foundation (so I am not sure I would go back to it). It is confusing especially b/c I started also using ZB moisture enrich at night (I wonder if it's clogging my pores even though it's not supposed to?). Man, do I wish I were lucky enough to go without wearing any makeup at all! 
vs- I noticed that you use Clarins Lotus oil. Have you ever tried Clarins Souffle de Teint? I used to wear that a few year back when I was a Clarins devotee. It was really good at evening out my skin but the coverage wasn't what I would have liked so I had to use more concealer. I wish I could find the blasted ingredients online b/c I am so curious now (at the time I used it I wasn't as concerned about ingredients as I am now). Another TM that came to mind was Juice Beauty's TM. Have you tried that? I tried a sample a year back and it wasn't too bad but offers very little coverage.
Just wanted to suggest those products if you are looking for alternatives. |
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early-mid 30s || oily-combination, sensitive & acne-prone skin || mild breakouts (Aczone helps a lot) || occasional eczema rashes || fine lines around eyes || very dark under eye cirlces- concealer a must || very fair neutral-warm complexion, blue eyes, blonde hair |
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:46 am |
| Can the "bumpies" be a result of extensive buffing? I get those nasty bumps too; and skin seems really congested sometimes. I am wondering whether buffing MMU "into the pores" can contribute to this....? |
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I'm tired of all this nonsense about beauty being only skin deep. That's deep enough! What do you want; an adorable pancreas?  |
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:49 am |
| Velvettt wrote: |
| I am not a scientist nor am I a dermatologist. I am a 50 yr old woman who has been fascinated with skin care since age 12... using it, trying different ones, selling it, teaching it to customers. Here's what I know: after using MMU for almost a month now, my skin looks better than it has in years. Yesterday, my adorable but completely unobservant husband said "Your makeup looks good today." I hadn't put it on yet! Using MMU is the ONLY change I have made up till now. Are the ingredients occlusive? I have oily, cystic acne-prone skin. If my pores were being blocked, you'd see the results from across the room. When it comes to this subject, people tend to line up on opposite sides with no one in the middle. I know which side I'm on. |
Velvettt;
may I ask which MMU brand you are using? Just my curiosity...  |
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I'm tired of all this nonsense about beauty being only skin deep. That's deep enough! What do you want; an adorable pancreas? |
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:45 am |
Right now I'm giving the LM MMU a test run. No problems so far (and it is the nicest MMU I've ever tried), but, frankly, I'm not holding my breath.
My feelings about MMU are pretty much in line with Vonstella's. I've never been able to find a MMU that does not cause me blocked pores and acne and, until trying the LM, had decided to stop wasting money trying them out. I've lost count how many I've sampled -- there have been TOO MANY!
Just my experience. |
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Age 41; Oily; Acne prone; Resilient; Currently loving Tazorac, Kate Somerville ExfoliKate and Deep Tissue Repair; Bobbi Brown Hydrating Eye Cream |
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:25 am |
| amnis wrote: |
vs- I noticed that you use Clarins Lotus oil. Have you ever tried Clarins Souffle de Teint? I used to wear that a few year back when I was a Clarins devotee. It was really good at evening out my skin but the coverage wasn't what I would have liked so I had to use more concealer. I wish I could find the blasted ingredients online b/c I am so curious now (at the time I used it I wasn't as concerned about ingredients as I am now). Another TM that came to mind was Juice Beauty's TM. Have you tried that? I tried a sample a year back and it wasn't too bad but offers very little coverage.
Just wanted to suggest those products if you are looking for alternatives. |
Amnis--
I havent tried any other Clarins products. I hear really mixed things about them, however, I do believe they have good products. Honestly, Im so in love with my LM TM I dont want to try anyother brands as of now, I mean my skin looks fantastic! Thanks for your rec's though, I might look into them if the LM stops working for me. |
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27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:34 am |
| Heléne wrote: |
| Can the "bumpies" be a result of extensive buffing? I get those nasty bumps too; and skin seems really congested sometimes. I am wondering whether buffing MMU "into the pores" can contribute to this....? |
I not sure if its buffing or the pores getting clogged after exfoliation...perhaps they are more "open" and prone to debris settling in. I never so much buffed as I did fluffed it on then gently blended...so I dont know. Maybe you are on to something.
I do know that since I have stopped using MMU and added the AHA 12% souffle into my routine that all those bumps have surfaced--with some pretty nasty contents I might add. I only have about 4 left on my face as opposed to the 20+ I had at any given time while using MMU. To top it off my skin is also no longer congested with blackheads and the rough texture it was taking on is completely diminished.
Yea for AHA's!  |
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27~Texas~Oily~ fair~ breakout prone~ easily congested~Cysts caused by emotional stress~ Using Ayurvedic skin care and philosophy~ Dry brushing body and face~ On strict less is more routine~ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars~ Oscar Wilde |
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