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Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:13 am |
No disrespect to anyone who has lost a loved one in any of the recent shootings is intended by this post. This is just a small example of how things have dramatically changed in the last 30 years.
Do you ever long for the "good old days"? And they call it progress, where we've come to today. I wonder.....
SCHOOL 1976 vs 2006
Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1976 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2006 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.
Scenario: Mark and Johnny get into a fistfight after school.
1976 - Crowd gathers. Johnny wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.
2006 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Mark started it.
Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1976 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2006 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.
Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1976 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2006 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused hersel f and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair
with psychologist.
Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1976 - Mark shares his aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2006 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.
1976 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2006 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and
Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curri culum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.
Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1976 - Ants die.
2006 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.
Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1976 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2006 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.
What happened to all of us?
Okay - some of these scenarios are kinda extreme, but I can certainly see the majority of the scenarios happening now. Some of these scenarios are also specific to the U.S....I don't see as much of this stuff here in Canada. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:42 pm |
i got this in my email a while back also. i agree that some scenarios are a bit extreme, but it reflects what our society has turned into when we are taking human rights and political correctness to the extreme without looking at the big picture. |
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Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:12 am |
I totally agree. Since the Virginia Tech massacre we have a politician who wants to restrict gun purchases so that people who have been treated with mental illnesses are unable to purchase a firearm. I have this questions to pose: How many people in the USA are treated for depression at some point in time? Should all people who have been treated for a mental illness be pidgeon holed and have their rights restricted? |
_________________ 53 and starting to show it |
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Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:41 pm |
I am a graduate of Virginia Tech. I got my Bachelor of Science degree in Chemistry after attending that fine school from 1976 to 1981. Now get this, I had a 22 caliber rifle in my dorm room from 1979 to 1981. My friends and I liked to go out target shooting in the beautiful Blue Ridge mountains on the weekends. We didn't mass murder dozens of people! Your post is so true. Times have changed and for the worse! Nobody takes account for their own actions anymore. There is always some liberal willing to fight for their cause because of some childhood problem they may or may not have had. It is ridiculous and sad. By the way, one of my VT friends who would go shooting with me not only designed and created the Mars Rover now successfully mapping the Mars surface, but also tested it down in Antarctica. We knew the difference between right and wrong back then, and knew we would face consequences from parents, friends and the authorities if we did wrong. Now, there are no consequences.
Guns don't kill, people kill. If he hadn't have had two handguns, that guy would have used a hunting knife. If he had no knife he would have used and aluminum baseball bat. It's not the weapon, it's the person. Period!
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue May 01, 2007 8:29 am |
John C. Hill wrote: |
Guns don't kill, people kill. If he hadn't have had two handguns, that guy would have used a hunting knife. If he had no knife he would have used and aluminum baseball bat. It's not the weapon, it's the person. Period!
John |
OK, my two cents. Guns don't kill, but if the guy had a knife or a bat instead, I doubt there would have been the same carnage -- nowhere close. The students wouldn't have felt the need to cower behind doors and under desks; several of them would have jumped the guy when he got close enough to attack someone. End result: maybe one or two casualties instead of thirty-four.
I do agree however that knee-jerk overreactions do not solve any more problems than laissez-faire underreactions. I believe that what is needed is thoughtful study into effective vs. symbolic intervention and consideration of the balance between individual rights, public safety, and common sense. |
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Tue May 01, 2007 8:40 am |
LilLoco, imagine if you will that Virginia Tech didn't outlaw guns on campus (the psychotic criminal Cho, obviously didn't care about that rule) and some of the students had conceal weapons permits and had a gun on campus much like I did from 1979 to 81. You say he would have killed less people with a knife or a bat. I say, he may not have killed more than 1 if another law abiding, good citizen student or instructor had been carrying a self-defense gun. Cho obviously knew that the campus was full of sitting ducks. Nobody had a gun but him and the slow reacting security force. So, he was able to kill 32 that easily.
THAT is what is wrong with gun control as a concept. Criminals will ALWAYS obtain guns. They could care less about the law! Only unarmed law abiding civilians will be hurt by any new and severe gun control laws. There is a very scary saying about this: "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".
Washington DC has one of the worst murder rates (by guns) in the entire nation and they have very strict gun control laws.
I say again, it's not the gun that kills, it is the person. period.
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue May 01, 2007 9:07 am |
Here is another scenario: Cho wasn't able to obtain guns. He obtains the makings for a bomb - from what I understand this is incredibly easy. It will always be something. It always has been something. Let's look way back in history. This sort of thing is far from new. The reason we know so much about it is because of the media. jmo. |
_________________ 53 and starting to show it |
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Tue May 01, 2007 10:21 am |
Good point salli! Davidson Hall, which is the chemistry building (where I spent most of my days) is just 3 buildings south of Norris Hall. He could have easily gotten in there and done some great damage by obtained a lot of chemicals and creating a bomb, or simply throwing acid or toxic solvent throughout the classrooms and setting them on fire.
But, it takes a disturbed and deranged criminal mind to come up with an idea like that. All he needs is a way to carry it out.
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue May 01, 2007 10:26 am |
John, from what little I have heard about bomb making he didn't even need to break into the chem lab to get the ingredients. |
_________________ 53 and starting to show it |
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Tue May 01, 2007 10:47 am |
You are absolutely right. I worked on solid rocket fuel for Morton Thiokol for the first 9 years after I graduated. I could go down to Home Depot, and then a feed and grain store and create a bomb similar to Oklahoma City with ease. But, I have no desire to do so, and that is the main item I'm preaching here.
I really loved Virginia Tech, and I had a lot of friends and relatives go there before me, with me, and since. My heart is heavy with the loss. But, we are a tough group! Go Hokies! We will get better from all of this.
I'm planning on volunteering to do some teaching and career consuling down there as soon as I can get it arranged. It's the least that I can do, but I will do something.
john |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator for "Never Over The Hill Cosmetics" |
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Tue May 01, 2007 11:06 am |
I'm hoping that our lawmakers will realize that we cannot legislate morality and continue to take away the rights of our country's law abiding citizens because of these types of things.
I think your volunteering at V Tech is absolutely wonderful. It will take a long time to heal, but in time it will happen. |
_________________ 53 and starting to show it |
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Tue May 01, 2007 12:30 pm |
John,
You miss my point. I was not advocating more gun control laws nor would I advocate more people carrying guns. My point is that neither would be an easy fix to solve the problem.
It might have been true that if a student who happened to be in the area and happened to have his/her gun with them might have been able to stop the "bad" guy sooner -- I seriously doubt it would have been before he killed his first victim. (It also might have been true that if bigger obstacles existed to his purchasing the gun, this tragedy may not have happened). We'll never know.
My point was to disagree with those that wax nostalgic, thinking that the "old" ways were always better. Some things have changed for the better and some have not. It is unfortunate that we have come to this, but I have no problem with a "zero tolerance" policy for weapons in grade schools and high schools. Weapons don't belong there. I do have a problem with classifying nail clippers as a weapon, and having a child disciplined because of a nonsensical implementation of a reasonable rule.
Could a scenario be dreamed up where a child did damage to another with a non-traditional weapon? Of course. We can always dream up scenarios to prove a point -- for either side of an issue. My main hope is that after tragedies such as at Virginia Tech, we ask IF there are changes we can make to reduce the chance of it happening again, while keeping individual rights, public safety, and common sense in mind.
Whew! Sorry to go on so long, but I guess the Lounge is the place to do it. |
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