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Jan Marini Question - Please Help I'm Confused!
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Rachael
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Sun May 06, 2007 9:32 am      Reply with quote
I'm thinking of adding a BHA / AHA product into my routine. Am I right in thinking a BHA / AHA product would help with breakouts, black and white heads and general lumps and bumps? Is it basically a liquid exfoliant? Would the Bioclear line by Jan Marini be suitable? Any product in particular? Sorry about all the questions Embarassed all advice greatly received. TIA.
ParisTroika
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Sun May 06, 2007 9:50 am      Reply with quote
While I've not used the JM Bioclear line, I can post some information on BHA/AHA. This is from Tangal's amazing post on pH of products, application and wait times, but she gave a great run down of BHAs and AHAs. Both are liquid exfoliants but work in very different ways. AHA works on the skin's surface, while BHA can penetrate into the pore.

From http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18360


Quote:
AHAs (Glycolic, Lactic, malic, citric, and tartaric are the most common) are basically ineffective over 4.0 pH, to exfoliate the skin the skin, the pH must be below 4 pH. Product percentage must be over 5%. (5% to 8% with a pH of 3- 4 is the minimum level for a daily use AHA, this will not treat scars or rebuild collagen) It should be second or third on the ingredient list to be at least 5%. It can moisturize the skin at any pH, and any level.

Glycolic and Lactic are the most researched, and penetrate the skin the easiest.

BHAs (salicylic acid) are also basically ineffective over 4.0 pH; to exfoliate the skin, and unclog pores, the pH must be below 4 pH. Product percentage must be over 1%. (1% to 2% with a pH of 3- 4 is the minimum level for a daily use BHA (skin with very clogged pores may need higher 5% and lower pH)

BHA though penetrating deeper is actually milder then AHA, because it is also has anti-inflammatory effects. It can be toward the middle or end of an ingredient list, because amounts needed are less.


There is A LOT more in this thread if you want to peek at it. I personally use a liquid, almost toner like BHA/AHA combo (well, technically I'm only using BHA right now, as I wanted to go up in %, but will return to my BHA/AHA combo after I finish up this bottle).

I get mine from www.ifeelprettyproducts.com

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32, Fair Skin, combo/break-out prone. Simple routine of REN No. 1 Purity Cleansing Balm and Argan oil as a moisturizer; Clarisonic when needed. That's it!
waffle
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Sun May 06, 2007 11:03 am      Reply with quote
you should defnitely check out the thread on the bioclear in the products review board -- it is great stuff.
what the bioclear cream has that some of the other BHA/AHA combos do not is azelaic acid, which is an antiinflammatory and reduces redness.

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Rachael
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Sun May 06, 2007 11:06 am      Reply with quote
Brilliant, thankk you both! Paristroika, just to be clear - does the pH relate to the product or the skin? If it's the skin how do you know what the pH of your skin is? Apologies if this is a stupid question Embarassed .
ParisTroika
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Sun May 06, 2007 11:21 am      Reply with quote
It relates to the pH of the product. pH directly affects layering of certain products. That thread link I posted is loaded with info. I bookmarked it because I reference it a lot!
You can always PM Tangal too...she's an amazing resource for stuff like this!

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Sun May 06, 2007 11:28 am      Reply with quote
I was previously using ISC Active Serum which is an AHA/BHA combo but recently switched to JM Bioclear and I couldn't be happier! I did purge in the first 2 weeks but I have not had a blemish since. This says a lot because I usually get 1 to 2 cysts around my TOTM. My skin is clearer, brighter, smoother and more even looking. I use Bioclear in conjunction with the Bioglycolic cleanser and Transformation Cream.
ParisTroika
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Sun May 06, 2007 12:49 pm      Reply with quote
dollbird...with daily use, how long will your JM Bioclear last do you think?

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32, Fair Skin, combo/break-out prone. Simple routine of REN No. 1 Purity Cleansing Balm and Argan oil as a moisturizer; Clarisonic when needed. That's it!
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Sun May 06, 2007 1:07 pm      Reply with quote
ParisTroika wrote:
dollbird...with daily use, how long will your JM Bioclear last do you think?


not dollbird, but I have the cream (not heavy, actually) and I would say 4-6 months for once a day, 3 months 2x per day. It's pretty pricey, but it does work. plus if you order from EDS you can get a good size jar of the glycolic night cream as your free gift and it's cleared up some minor acne on my chest.

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Rachael
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Sun May 06, 2007 1:14 pm      Reply with quote
Dollbird, how do you find the cleanser? Is it very strong? How do you incorporate the JM into your routine?
ParisTroika - thanks again for that link, I think I'll bookmark it too!
ParisTroika
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Sun May 06, 2007 1:19 pm      Reply with quote
I love that thread Rachael!!! Tangal was fabulous to do such a detailed thread Smile

waffle...I'm combo (oily in the summer)...do you think someone with my type of skin would be okay with the cream?

waffle wrote:
ParisTroika wrote:
dollbird...with daily use, how long will your JM Bioclear last do you think?


not dollbird, but I have the cream (not heavy, actually) and I would say 4-6 months for once a day, 3 months 2x per day. It's pretty pricey, but it does work. plus if you order from EDS you can get a good size jar of the glycolic night cream as your free gift and it's cleared up some minor acne on my chest.

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32, Fair Skin, combo/break-out prone. Simple routine of REN No. 1 Purity Cleansing Balm and Argan oil as a moisturizer; Clarisonic when needed. That's it!
dollbird
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Sun May 06, 2007 1:40 pm      Reply with quote
ParisTroika wrote:
dollbird...with daily use, how long will your JM Bioclear last do you think?


Because it spreads so easily, I use one pea-sized drop for my entire face. I see myself running out of the Bioclear lotion in 8 months to a year.
ParisTroika
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Sun May 06, 2007 1:43 pm      Reply with quote
One more question (I don't mean to hijack the thread!)

Would JM Bioclear replace my current BHA? I currently use a 5%...I'm assuming if I implemented this into my routine I'd use it in place of my liquid BHA...correct?

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32, Fair Skin, combo/break-out prone. Simple routine of REN No. 1 Purity Cleansing Balm and Argan oil as a moisturizer; Clarisonic when needed. That's it!
dollbird
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Sun May 06, 2007 1:50 pm      Reply with quote
Rachael wrote:
Dollbird, how do you find the cleanser? Is it very strong? How do you incorporate the JM into your routine?
ParisTroika - thanks again for that link, I think I'll bookmark it too!


Rachael, I find the Bioglycolic cleanser and the Bioclear lotion strong. I thought my skin would be accustomed to AHA/BHA products since I've been using ISC Active for almost a year, but boy did JM sting my thick rhino skin the first week. The cleanser does sting but if it gets unbearable just rinse it off. I love the cleanser because I don't like waiting after cleansing to apply the Bioclear, and with an acidic cleanser, I don't have to wait and it increases the lotion's efficacy. I only use JM at night because twice a day would dry out my oily skin (my oily skin has actually become normal since using this). I prefer the Bioclear lotion to IS Active because I think Bioclear is much, much better at keeping me clear in general (although IS Active is slightly better for spot treatment), and I don't wake up in the morning with greasy skin like I do with IS Active (maybe it's the higher alcohol content and the menthol in the IS Active that makes my skin oilier). In the PM, my routine goes like this: Cleanse with JM bioglycolic cleanser, follow with JM Bioclear lotion, wait for it to sink in and then apply JM Transformation Cream. In the AM I just cleanse with Cetaphil and apply sunscreen before makeup. Such a simple routine for clear bright skin.
dollbird
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Sun May 06, 2007 1:53 pm      Reply with quote
ParisTroika wrote:
One more question (I don't mean to hijack the thread!)

Would JM Bioclear replace my current BHA? I currently use a 5%...I'm assuming if I implemented this into my routine I'd use it in place of my liquid BHA...correct?


I would think so. JM Bioclear percentages are 12% Glycolic Acid, 2% Salicylic Acid, 2% Azelaic Acid. This formulation has worked much better for me than separate AHA and BHA products.
sormuimui
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Sun May 06, 2007 3:38 pm      Reply with quote
PT: For me the lotion will last about 4-6 months. But I put a thick layer because I don't even get a tingle but I know it works as this really does give me significant noticeable effects in keeping my pores clean and relatively acne-free (or cyst-free). ISC Active in all honesty now has not done much for me regardless of having used it for 10 months or so. I've used the lotion for a month or more and almost gone through 1/4 of it already. I love it and will never be without it. My skin is pretty dry actually even though it's acne prone and I'm super prone to flakies but this does NOT enhance them or dry my skin out in anyway. Actually during my wait time before my HA my skin feels very soft, softer than before I applied it so I know it's not drying my skin out at all. But I must say if the IFP is working for you I wouldn't see a need for change with the JM because it does have less BHA so I can't say how it compares to the IFP but I do know it's way more expensive. Especially since BHA is what mainly keeps your pores clean.

Oh and for those wondering about the pH I read somewhere (but can't find it anymore for the life of me) that this has a pH of 3.2 or so, I found it during my JM research prior to buying the product. But of course testing it with pH strips would probably be more accurate. HTH
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Sun May 06, 2007 4:00 pm      Reply with quote
I have used Kim's bha/aha's, which did help decrease my acne,but Jan Marini's bioclear cream, along with her bioglycolic cleanser completely cleared my skin in a week. The bioclear lotion/cream has bha(salicylic), aha (glycolic),& azeleic (to help with hyperpigmentation). I'd try both lines to see which works better on your skin. Kim's products are ALOT more affordable, so if they work for you they'd definitely be more economical. Per Kim's advice I started out slowly w/her products. Ie. BHA 2% --> BHA 5% --> 2%BHA/4%AHA --> 5%BHA/10%AHA. Kim is very helpful & informative & answered all of my emails promptly.

Here's the description of the bioclear:
"Bioclear is a revolutionary cream that targets multifaceted acne problems uniquely experienced by adults. This versatile product also has remarkable anti-aging and skin resurfacing properties that benefit any skin type.

Our proprietary research has resulted in a formula that produces exceptional benefits for adult acne, acne scarring, inflammation, discoloration, enlarged follicle openings, textural changes and the appearance of wrinkling and textural changes due to cumulative sun exposure."

The bioglycolic products are very drying to the skin though, so I'm now trying to find a moisturizer that won't break me out, but that will provide the needed moisture. I'm currently using Naturderm's products, but I need something more moisturizing.
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Sun May 06, 2007 4:06 pm      Reply with quote
paristroika, the cream is really not very heavy although it does make my skin annoyingly shiny. I still have to use moisturizer with it. I got the cream because I heard the pump bottle for the lotion is crap and breaks easily (cream comes in a jar) and my skin is a bit on the dry side of combo. I think in summer I'll be able to just wear the cream with my sunscreen (also JM).

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marina
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Sun May 06, 2007 4:59 pm      Reply with quote
I had no trouble with the pump bottle back when I used it..I actually got down to the last drop!
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Sun May 06, 2007 6:56 pm      Reply with quote
I'm actually liking JM bioclear the more I use it. It wasn't "love at first sight" but it seems to give better results the longer I use it.

JM rocks! Very Happy
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Sun May 06, 2007 7:08 pm      Reply with quote
marina wrote:
I had no trouble with the pump bottle back when I used it..I actually got down to the last drop!


I wonder if they've fixed it -- on the ther thread a bunch of people were saying that they would break constantly, and that although JM would replace them, it was a pain. but JM said they were working on it, so maybe they've worked it out by now? I hope so, I'd like to try the lotion at some point.

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ParisTroika
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Sun May 06, 2007 7:25 pm      Reply with quote
So this code ends tomorrow but at skinstore.com this is 40 bucks (the cream or the lotion)...plus if you enter 20MOM you get 20% off. You can get it for 32 and you get free shipping. (I'm not sure about Canadian orders and in CA they charge you sales tax).

I can't believe I forgot about this code!!!

ETA: Don't forget this code ends tomorrow! And orders to Canada are 6 bucks for shipping...and they DON'T use UPS!!!

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dollbird
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Sun May 06, 2007 8:22 pm      Reply with quote
waffle wrote:
marina wrote:
I had no trouble with the pump bottle back when I used it..I actually got down to the last drop!


I wonder if they've fixed it -- on the ther thread a bunch of people were saying that they would break constantly, and that although JM would replace them, it was a pain. but JM said they were working on it, so maybe they've worked it out by now? I hope so, I'd like to try the lotion at some point.


I have no problems with my pump bottle after almost a month of use.
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Mon May 07, 2007 5:09 am      Reply with quote
ParisTroika wrote:
One more question (I don't mean to hijack the thread!)

Would JM Bioclear replace my current BHA? I currently use a 5%...I'm assuming if I implemented this into my routine I'd use it in place of my liquid BHA...correct?


Paris -- Yes, the Bioclear would replace the liquid BHA. I've used ISC Active, JM Bioclear (which I'm getting ready to reorder now) and IFP's AHA/BHA liquids.

I like each of the products very much, but I've gotta give it up to the Bioclear. Looking at the ingredient list, talking about pH, etc....I'm not sure WHY that particular product seems to do so well for me, but it does.

I just finished my 2 ounce bottle of ISC Active. I find that my best results with the Active is using it in conjunction with the ISC Firming, but that can be expensive now that my ebay vendor no longer sells ISC. So I'm going back to the Bioclear.

I'll continue to use IFP's BHA/AHA for my back, which really helps keep the breakouts at bay.

BTW, I like using the Bioclear lotion in conjunction with the Transformation Serum (for light moisture). I've never used the Bioclear Cream. I've used the Bioglycolic cleanser (for oily skin) and like it well enough, but it can definitely dry out you skin if you're not careful. Right now I'm using a sample of the Age Transformation Eye Cream and it's nice too (I'm starting to deal with the fact that NO eye cream is going to give me what I really want).

Also -- THANKS for the discount code!

Marla

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Rachael
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Mon May 07, 2007 9:22 am      Reply with quote
Is there another JM cleanser that's also suitable for breakout prone skin, but a little gentler than the glycolic cleanser?
marla
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Mon May 07, 2007 9:30 am      Reply with quote
Rachael -- they have the Bioclean non-glycolic cleanser.
I've never tried it, though.

I have used the CleanZyme Papaya Cleanser and like it.

ETA -- you may want to email/call EDS for a cleanser recommendation!

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