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free skin care · Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:35 am

[quote="iaimei]
I thought the spf 50 is a physical one, or not?[/quote]

No, unfortunately it's not. Apparantly the FDA doesn't recognize purely physical ingredients and in order to get the testing/certification needed too market a sunscreen, chemicals must be included in the formulation.

Link to ingredients, I wasn't able to paste from PSFskincare website.
https://www.psfskincare.com/images/spf50_ing.gif

free skin care · Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:34 pm

athena123 wrote:

No, unfortunately it's not. Apparantly the FDA doesn't recognize purely physical ingredients and in order to get the testing/certification needed too market a sunscreen, chemicals must be included in the formulation.

Link to ingredients, I wasn't able to paste from PSFskincare website.
https://www.psfskincare.com/images/spf50_ing.gif

I am a bit confused now, do you mean strictly speaking, that a phycial sunscreen should be the ones that contain either titanium dioxide or zinc oxide or both but nothing else? And these ones are hard to comeby because FDA won't approve it?

free skin care · Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:42 pm

Today i have tried sample of PSF SPF50 , it too greasy on my oily skin Crying or Very sad

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:25 am

iamei, they're not necessarily hard to come by, but only ones with physical blockers and NO chemical blockers are called physical. There are several options, on EDS and elsewhere - check out some of the UVA/UVB threads and you'll get a zillion suggestions! The one I'm most looking forward to trying is the Organic Pharmacy SPF 18 one that another user recently brought to my attention, and I also tried MyChelle recently and loved it. Hope this helps!

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:42 am

iaimei wrote:

athena123 wrote:

No, unfortunately it's not. Apparantly the FDA doesn't recognize purely physical ingredients and in order to get the testing/certification needed too market a sunscreen, chemicals must be included in the formulation.

Link to ingredients, I wasn't able to paste from PSFskincare website.
https://www.psfskincare.com/images/spf50_ing.gif

I am a bit confused now, do you mean strictly speaking, that a phycial sunscreen should be the ones that contain either titanium dioxide or zinc oxide or both but nothing else? And these ones are hard to comeby because FDA won't approve it?

iamei, this is an quote from Darren when I pm'ed him about physical sunblock...

"The FDA is very particular about what sunscreen formulas they will approve. At the time when we started working on this sunscreen, they did not recognize a purely pysical susncreen if it does not contain chemical susncreen ingredients as well. A company can manufacture & sell a purely physical sunblock, but it cannot bear an SPF number or be advertised as a sunscreen or sunblock. Whether or not their criteria has changed in the past few months, I do not know " - end quote.

Our FDA can be pretty strange, can't they? They'll approve a dangerous drug with nasty side effects but they won't approve of physical sunblocks that have really stood the test of time! Laughing

There are a lot of purely physical sunblocks out there that have a lot of great ingredients I'd love to try, but as soon as I see most of them contain shea butter and cocoa butter, I have to leave off using those on my face. Sigh, I wish suncare companies would realize that SOME people have oily skin and come up with a formula that only contains jojoba, or grapeseed non-pore-clogging oils...

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:18 am

Athena, I know I've tried at least a few less greasy physical formulas, I can try and keep an eye out and let you know if I recall which ones!

As for that quote, it seems a bit weird, and new - this must be a recent regulation in light of all the PPD discussion, right? Because in the past, purely physical blocks like Clinique Super City Block SPF 25 were always labeled as such.

Sigh, stupid FDA... that's the LAST resource I'll trust as to what's safe and what isn't!

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:17 pm

Can I use it? I'm sensitive skin.

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:03 pm

Depends - some people are sensitive to chemical sunscreens (like me). But I'm happy to send you my sample if you like so you can try it, just PM me if you want.

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:23 pm

ginnielizz wrote:

Athena, I know I've tried at least a few less greasy physical formulas, I can try and keep an eye out and let you know if I recall which ones!

As for that quote, it seems a bit weird, and new - this must be a recent regulation in light of all the PPD discussion, right? Because in the past, purely physical blocks like Clinique Super City Block SPF 25 were always labeled as such.

Sigh, stupid FDA... that's the LAST resource I'll trust as to what's safe and what isn't!

Thanks ginnielizz and athena for addressing my question.

But according to your definition, even Clinique Super City Block cannot be classified as pure physical block since its active ingredients listed on the back of the package contain octinoxate (7.5%) and octisalate (2%) - these are chemical filters right? in addition to zinc oxide (8.8%), titanium dioxide (6.6%).

Could you please let me know what are choices of pure physical sunblock then? I know one brand - "UV naturals" contains nothing but Zinc as the active ingredient. But its not that easily accessible.

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:39 pm

Hm, they never used to have those ingredients, that's new! But I know they reformulated a couple years ago - I haven't used it since I was in high school.

The physical one I use now is Juice Beauty, but I'm looking for a better one since it only has titanium dioxide and I want zinc oxide too to protect from UVA damage a bit better. I LOVED Mychelle's one I just tried - goes on clear and smooth and smells like vanilla - and all of Dr. Hauschka's and Lavera's are physical and gentle, though they tend to leave a whitish cast so I don't use them. I think DDF Organic Sun Protection SPF 30 is all physical, but it has ingredients I'm sensitive to so I avoid it. And Devita's is all transparent zinc, but hard to find. Burt's Bees has a new chemical-free one, and Alba Botanica and Jason Naturals definitely make a couple options. I can't think of any more off the top of my head, but hopefully this will get you started! PM me if you want more and I'll try to keep a mental list - normally I have one anyway, I'm just sleepy and out of it. Also feel free to check my website in my signature, there may be a couple others that I've forgotten! Smile

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:53 pm

In an ideal world, I'd like to find a sunscreen that uses Zinc only. It is gentle enough to use on babies, then should be good enough for me Razz

After read a couple articles on Titanium dioxide , I am having a bit reservations. The gist of what I read is, titanium dioxide could be toxic to skin, especially when and if the particles are made small enough for skin to absorb. Titanium dioxide may aslo proven to cause skin DNA damage , although the reserch is not conclusive yet.

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:59 pm

I've been eyeing Badger's sunblock SPF30. Ingredients:

SPF 30: Active Ingredient: 20.5% Micronized Zinc Oxide Other Ingredients: Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Natural Beeswax, Jojoba Oil, Organic Cocoa Butter, Wild African Shea Butter, Organic CO2 Extract of Seabuckthorn Berry, and Essential Oils of Lavender, Moroccan Blue Tansy, Ylang Ylang, Lime, and Orange.

Everything sounds so lovely but the shea butter and coconut oils would be horrible for my face. If they made it WITHOUT these oils it would be perfect for oily skinned girls!

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:03 pm

ginnielizz wrote:

Hm, they never used to have those ingredients, that's new! But I know they reformulated a couple years ago - I haven't used it since I was in high school.

The physical one I use now is Juice Beauty, but I'm looking for a better one since it only has titanium dioxide and I want zinc oxide too to protect from UVA damage a bit better. I LOVED Mychelle's one I just tried - goes on clear and smooth and smells like vanilla - and all of Dr. Hauschka's and Lavera's are physical and gentle, though they tend to leave a whitish cast so I don't use them. I think DDF Organic Sun Protection SPF 30 is all physical, but it has ingredients I'm sensitive to so I avoid it. And Devita's is all transparent zinc, but hard to find. Burt's Bees has a new chemical-free one, and Alba Botanica and Jason Naturals definitely make a couple options. I can't think of any more off the top of my head, but hopefully this will get you started! PM me if you want more and I'll try to keep a mental list - normally I have one anyway, I'm just sleepy and out of it. Also feel free to check my website in my signature, there may be a couple others that I've forgotten! Smile

I currently use Juice Beauty or at least before I started testing PSF - I've tried Alba, Jason, DDF and they all leave my face either too heavy, oily and Jason's left a white cast that did NOT go away, even after I applied MMU over it.

I hear Ocean Potion is coming out with a physical sunblock only, but it sounds like that'll be better for the rest of me. I've also heard of a product called Mexitan, that uses Titanium and Zinc only but again, additional ingredients like coconut oil are just too rich for me. It's gotten to the point that I'm actually considering trying to make my own, but the only way to really test the SPF is in a lab...

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:34 pm

Athena, have you ever considered trying Devita's sun protecting moisturizer? There was a thread on it if you search for Devita, and here's the website:

http://www.devita.net/products/ProductView.mgi2?mgiToken=1PLA8NB4FF2CNP3F&ID=DMSPF

The formula is MUCH lighter than most physical blocks (all clear zinc and no titanium), and I was actually concerned that it sweated right off my face. But it's light and they say it's good for acne-prone skin - it can be hard to track down, but I've been meaning to make a pilgrimage to a somewhat out-of-the-way natural store to get myself some, so PM me if you want me to decant you a bit or grab you a jar. Smile

I think it was a tad pricy so no worries if you'd like to try it out first.

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:01 pm

ginnielizz wrote:

Athena, have you ever considered trying Devita's sun protecting moisturizer? There was a thread on it if you search for Devita, and here's the website:

http://www.devita.net/products/ProductView.mgi2?mgiToken=1PLA8NB4FF2CNP3F&ID=DMSPF

The formula is MUCH lighter than most physical blocks (all clear zinc and no titanium), and I was actually concerned that it sweated right off my face. But it's light and they say it's good for acne-prone skin - it can be hard to track down, but I've been meaning to make a pilgrimage to a somewhat out-of-the-way natural store to get myself some, so PM me if you want me to decant you a bit or grab you a jar. Smile

I think it was a tad pricy so no worries if you'd like to try it out first.

Tracked down the ingredients for this line, they look pretty nice thanks ginnie! Ingredients: ACTIVE INGREDIENT: MICRONIZED ZINC OXIDE: 14% (TRANSPARENT) INACTIVE INGREDIENTS: Purified Water, Aloe Vera Gel, Capric/Caprylic Triglycerides (derived from coconut oil), Stearic Acid, Vegetable Glycerin,Rhatany Extract(natural sunscreen) Hyaluronic Acid, Glyceryl Stearate (from vegetable oil), Soy Lecithin, Vitamin E Acetate, Allantoin, Comfrey Root Extract, Grapeseed Extract.

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:03 pm

Just found this interesting link. Seems like a class action lawsuit was filed in 2006 claiming that some manufacturers are being sued for creating a false sense of security.

http://www.sunprotectioncenter.com/Articles.asp?ID=129

This could be what Darren meant when he said that the FDA doesn't recognize minerals as a sunblock and its insistenace that the term "sunscreen" be used instead.

free skin care · Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:29 pm

Yeah, I think it was Avalange who mentioned something about this in another sunscreen thread - but this is the first concrete reference I've seen, neat! I'm not surprised, honestly - everything I've read or researched about most sunscreens leads me to believe they're not nearly as effective as they claim. Hopefully we'll find a way to make do as best we can!

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