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Vit C Effectiveness on Damaged Skin
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bushy
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Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:34 pm      Reply with quote
I recently read an article on a dermatologist website which stated that the use of a Vit C and E Ferulic product only added to the effectiveness of sunscreen and could take up to 4 months to be effective on undamaged skin. On already damaged and aged skin, it would only help if used with other therapies, and if used alone on damaged/aged skin, the results would be unremarkable.
It went on to say that Vit C products could accelerate skin aging if used beyond the use by date. And that C products should be used up within 4 months of opening and should not be recanted as this can destroy the Vit C.
It would seem to me that Vit C products are most beneficial for younger skins but won't turn back time on older skins.

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Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:07 am      Reply with quote
This is purely anecdotal evidence, but I have found vitamin c serum to be very effective. I started using a stable L-ascorbic acid serum about three years ago. It was the first "active" skin care product I used, and the only one for more than a year. I was hoping for some improvement in my hyperpigmentation and, though it took over a year of consistent use, I had a drastic reduction in the dark patches on my cheeks and my upper lip. An unexpected side benefit was that blotchy redness was also reduced and my general skin tone was noticeably improved. One of my colleagues, on returning from a year's sabbatical, teased me about the "work" I had done while he was away--of course, it was just the C serum!

So, while I agree that vitamin C serum, if improperly formulated or used, can oxidize and probably do more harm than good, a properly concocted and used C serum can indeed make a real difference to mature skin. (For reference, I was over 50 when I first started on C serum.) My experience may perhaps be unusual, but it is not unique I know.
peppy
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Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:06 am      Reply with quote
I have been going to a beauty therapist every 6 weeks since March for an Emergin C facial (lasts 1.5hours each time, it's great and my skin always feels and looks really refreshed afterwards). These products are vitamin C based. i have also been using some of the products at home and have also got the philosophy microdelivery peel that i use every 2 weeks. I have to admit that my pigmentation has decreased considerably (it could also be that winter has been and gone and I have not had as much exposure to the sun as I generally do over the warmer months). In the recent months there have been more and more products that are vitamin C based emerging on the market as being beneficial for aging skin - I doubt any company would endorse a product if it actually causes worsening of aging!
bushy
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Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:20 am      Reply with quote
I think you may have both misunderstood the info I referred to. It basically stated that Vit C will prevent skin damage if used before the damage has happened, takes 4 months to show improvement and is most pronounced after 12 months. In contrast, Vit C had minimal effect on skin that was already damaged but would give added benefit when used with a good sunscreen and good anti aging products. If Vit C is used after its use by date then it can actually do more harm to the skin - only when used after its use by date. Even if you have the best formulated and packaged Vit C, the info stated it could do more harm to the skin if used when out of date. Very few of the top line Vit Cs are in airless containers so as soon as the cap is taken off there will be some loss of effectiveness and 4 months was the limit.
I have always had differing thoughts on the use of Vit C and have read as many user posts as possible but I don't ever recall anyone saying it was effective for the real aging concerns - lines, wrinkles, sagging etc. Many have stated their skin tone improved and I have no doubts on this one. But for the mature members, it seems it is helpful to use with other good products but isn't the answer to anti aging.

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Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:45 am      Reply with quote
bushy can you provide a link to the article that you read? TIA
peppy
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Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:08 am      Reply with quote
yes, bushy - where did you get the article from? You might want to look at the Emergic C multi-vitamin + retinol serum which boasts air-tight active ingredient encapsulation.
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Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:09 pm      Reply with quote
This is good information because I've always thought vitamin C could help improve damaged skin to a certain degree.
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Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:16 pm      Reply with quote
Quote:
I think you may have both misunderstood the info I referred to. It basically stated that Vit C will prevent skin damage if used before the damage has happened

That would mean that it would be a good anti-aging tool
Quote:
takes 4 months to show improvement and is most pronounced after 12 months.

If it is preventative, what "improvements" are we supposed to be looking out for?
Quote:
In contrast, Vit C had minimal effect on skin that was already damaged but would give added benefit when used with a good sunscreen and good anti aging products.

Okay, I kind of believe this--it doesn't turn back time. But it seems as if then the argument is that it is good for anti-aging, which is why I don't understand why you say:
Quote:
But for the mature members, it seems it is helpful to use with other good products but isn't the answer to anti aging.


Bushy, please clarify! Thanks! Smile

--avalange

p.s. In my own experience, vit c sera just irritated my skin and caused tons more spider veins on my face--a lot of acids do this, so now I only used acids 1-2 x per week.

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Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:27 pm      Reply with quote
I have been using Avon Vit C. It smells funny and they dye it yellow, which I believe is a way to disguise the changes in colour when the C goes off. However, I look a bit better in the morning.
I am wondering if others can say which companies they find have the freshest, most stable Vit C?
I once noticed on ebayuk, they were selling sets of small bottles of C, saying that using them in small batches was the best way to keep them fresh;ergo effective.
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Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:40 pm      Reply with quote
Here are the links to the info so you can make up your own mind.

http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Skinceuticals/Serums/C-E-Ferulic/Prior-Aging.html

http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Skinceuticals/Serums/C-E-Ferulic.html

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higig
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:52 am      Reply with quote
Thank you very much for your information.
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:16 pm      Reply with quote
Bushy, I went to the Melbourne dermatology website and clicked on lots of links relating to vitamin C (in particular skinceuticals). There is a study in particular that was discussed (transcript available) from ABC Health and the researcher/scientist was quoted as saying that topical vitamin C DID show promise in reducing fine lines, wrinkles etc.. and is showing real promise in anti-aging therapy, some if those women were putting vitamin C on one side of their face and something else on the other and the vitamin c side was showing very promising results. Just googling antiaging treatments it would appear that there is a large amount of research being invested in vitamin C treatments as well as AHA's, glycolics etc... As you stated though, the challenge is to maintain stability of the compound after exposure to air.
bushy
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:53 am      Reply with quote
Peppy, I think the problem that most of us have with Vit C is freshness. I would think that studies done would be with a freshly made product and very few products would have a manufacture date and only a few have a use by date. Even then there usually isn't any info supplied as to how to store the product or how soon it has to be used once opened. The one thing I have never understood is why so many manufacturers put their Vit C in a bottle that has to be opened to use.

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peppy
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:34 am      Reply with quote
Let's hope someone finds a way of stabilizing it so that there is a much longer shelf-life to make it more economical for the consumer. Capsule form that you twist to release and one-off use only maybe?
bushy
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:04 am      Reply with quote
peppy wrote:
Let's hope someone finds a way of stabilizing it so that there is a much longer shelf-life to make it more economical for the consumer. Capsule form that you twist to release and one-off use only maybe?


One of the new lines that I am trying at the moment has Vit C in a capsule form that you use straight or mixed with another product. I haven't tried it but this is possibly very close to actually getting a fresh dose each day or each time you use it.

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peppy
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:34 am      Reply with quote
Sounds promising. What is is called and where do you get it from?
bushy
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:42 am      Reply with quote
peppy wrote:
Sounds promising. What is is called and where do you get it from?


It is called Essence. See:

http://shop.karinherzog-jmilan.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=209

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yogi
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:32 am      Reply with quote
The Essence looks interesting, Bushy. Please keep us updated.
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Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:13 am      Reply with quote
I think there are quite a few companies out there that have Vitamin C in a powder or capsule form for cocktailing with serums/moisturizers... i.e. Aloette C-Accelerator, Philosophy Hope and a Prayer Vitamin C Powder, Cell-Rx Nano-C Powder, Dr. Sebagh's Pure Vitamin C Powder, etc.

Have you seen the packaging of Clinique's Derma White C-10 Anti-Aging Clarity Formula (could the name be any longer? Wink )? I saw it this weekend. Super expensive, IMHO, considering they say it should last 6 weeks (6 X one week vials), but the delivery system seems a bit above the norm in terms of keeping air out....
    “The powder is kept in a separate chamber in the cap, and the liquid is stored beneath it in the bottle,” explains Ted Owen, Clinique’s vice president of packaging. “When you press a button on top of the cap, it acts as a plunger that presses down and breaks the chamber’s seal, releasing vitamin C into the liquid.” Customers must then shake the vial to mix the two parts. The chambered cap is then replaced with another applicator cap.

    This advanced design was actually a stock package of supplier Virospack. The vial’s glass is frosted. The DuoMix cap containing the powder chamber is made from low-density polyethylene. It has an aluminum outer shell and a polypropylene press button. The applicator cap is made from low-density and ultra-low-density polyethylene that is flexible enough for customers to squeeze in order to dispense product.

    When developing the package, Virospack meticulously studied the force it would take for customers to comfortably push the cap’s button in order to break the seal. The company also needed a seal material that could be easily broken. At the same time, both the seal and the press button had to be resistant enough to pass vacuum testing. The seal also had to be impermeable to keep air from oxidizing the powder.

http://www.cpcpkg.com/magazine/07_05_cliniques_derma_white.php
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