Got my AlphaDerma CE—now how do you use this stuff?
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Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:13 pm

*Smooches* to Ian and Mabsy! My AlphaDerma CE arrived in the mail today, so I popped open a Mike's hard lemon and read the insert. Okay, like duh. I must admit I've never used a product like this before and it's a bit over my head. So here are my questions:

In what order do you apply the AlphaDerma? Here's a list of stuff I put on my face -

glycolic toner
brightening/whitening whatever (Kanebo lotion)
Vitamin C serum
moisturizer
sunscreen

I would guess the AlphaDerma should be applied after the toner and before the whitening lotion? I'll bet Ian would say we can all throw our Vitamin C serums in the back of a drawer--well, should we while using the AlphaDerma, I mean, would using both be redundant? Can the word redundant be used while attempting to address skin care products??

Seriously, I'm not into overkill. If "layering" skin care products is beneficial, then I'm all for it. If it's a recipe for skin overload and a possible reaction, then nuh uh. For instance, my Vit. C serum contains growth factor TGF-beta-1. How will this ingredient jibe with those in AlphaDerma? How well does an AHA, say, one that is contained in a facial toner, work with the ingredients in AlphaDerma? Will the use of AlphaDerma over time lighten sun/hormonal discoloration, and if so, should the application of a whitening lotion be put on hold or used simultaneously? What do I do with the sample of Serum De La Mer I received at a department store this past week--can I use it with AlphaDerma? I think these are legitimate questions. It's possible we might have to eliminate some of the products we're using while exploring the wonders of AlphaDerma, but which products?

Further on in the insert under "Directions For Use" it says to cleanse and dry area of treatment, dispense a few drops onto fingertips, and massage gently into desired area. Hmm, it seems to me that for a full facial application, a few drops might work only for someone who has a head the size of a baseball. I've never had any luck trying to get a few drops of anything to travel the length and breadth of my entire face. What I usually do when faced with this dilemma is lightly mist my face with water, then dispense and spread the few precious drops of whatever. A slightly moist face will help the product to glide and cover a greater surface area. But if I have to cleanse and "dry" the area of treatment first, I'm doomed. And yeah, I want to use the stuff on my whole face and down my neck--who wouldn't? So what to do?

My last question (gasp) will reveal just how little I know about the efficacy of high-end Botox substitutes (perhaps this is a question for Ian): Is "significant reduction in the depth and size of wrinkles and fine lines" only temporary, that is, evident only while the product is being used daily as part of a skin care regimen? More to the point, what happens if your skin becomes luminous, but then you run out of the product and can't afford to buy any more for a few months--how quickly do we turn back into mice, lizards, and pumpkins? This is a roundabout way of asking if AlphaDerma CE can actually reverse some of the ravages of skin aging/damage in a biologically sustainable way (within reason, of course), or whether its enhancement of the dermis is strictly cosmetological and transitory. Nah, I'm not asking for the moon--just one glass slipper I can take out once in a while to lovingly gaze at.

Thanks for any help ya'll can offer.

crinklecut \/\/\/\/\/\ you know, the french fry

free skin care · Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:19 am

Hi, I got mine today. Yippeee. I am still going to use my vit c I think, but I will halt on the relax-a-line for now because I don't suppose using 2 products with argireline in will be any more beneficial. Although I do like to hedge my bets. HMMM big dilemma. I to wonder if everything will droop and wrinkle up again if stop using products. Although I am never going to stop using product with argireline in it even if I can't afford to eat for a week. I haven't answered your question though you need Mabsy or Caspers mum or someone clever for that. Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:10 pm

Crinkle.... that was a handful of questions!!! Laughing

My opinion on using Argireline products is that only one at a time should be used for a couple of reasons. First, if you isolate a product, that's really the only way to know what that product is actually doing. If you're using two at a time, you really don't know which one is working. Confused

Also, from everything I have read, using more than the 10% solution really doesn't give you extra benefit... no matter what the people say who have 15 or 20%. The opinions on that I have read have been from scientists and cosmetic surgeons and I kinda trust that info better than someone who is selling a higher dosed Argireline product.

Also, the clinical trials on Argireline used a 10% solution. That produced 17% reduction in fine lines and wrinkles in 15 days; 27% reduction in 30 days; 39% improvement in smoothness; 42% improvement in dryness; and 45% improvement in skin tone. My opinion is go with the solution the clinical trials used. They must have used that percentage for a reason.

On the Vitamin C products and the Vit. C in AlphaDermaCE, I have a question that hasn't been answered. The brochure says it has Vitamin C, but I can't find it on the ingredient list.. unless it's the citric acid and that's pretty far down the list. It may be there called something I don't recognize, but I'd really like to get the answer to that question. Eh?

I am already using a 10% Argireline serum that I LOVE

but I'm going to suspend using it just for a while and give the AlphadermCE a test... and that's a BIG sacrifice for me! But, I just don't see how I can know how it's working without isolating it.

I will cleanse and tone with my regular products, apply the AlphaDermCE in certain areas (not all over) and apply my moisturizer or night cream. When I use a sunscreen, it will go after the serum and instead of a daily moisturizer.

The reason I don't believe you need an Argireline product all over the face is that it is intended to work on the areas of the face that wrinkle from excessive release of catecholamines from facial expressions. That is generally, the brow, browbone above and below, crows feet, upper lip and slightly to the sides of the mouth. I apply it about 1/2 way out on the cheek at the sides of the mouth, because I've seen some wrinkles forming there, like in the dimple area... and you want to be sure you use it in the nasiolabial(sp?) folds (nose to corner of mouth). I have a crease between my lower lip and chin so I apply it there too.

The wrinkles at the base of my neck aren't from facial expression, but I'd sure like to get rid of them as much as possible, so I apply it there and just kinda smooth it up the neck.

After that, your moisturizer (if you wear one) goes all over the face. Some people who use the Argireline product I've used don't feel they need a moisturizer after. That usually depends on just how dry your skin is and on how you like it to feel. I think it's kindof a personal preference. I use a moisturizer and nightcream, but I use minute amounts of them compared to what I used to use.

I don't think that answered all your questions, but it should give a good general idea of how to use it and I know Mabsy will be able to give us some great advice, as she always does! Wink

JUDY

free skin care · Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:38 am

Hey, Judy,

From my understanding, the vitamin C ester in it is Ascorbyl Palmitate, citric acid in it acts as a kind of "preservative" Wink

.

free skin care · Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:08 pm

You're right. I did a search on ascorbyl palmitate and it's very interesting. It is one of the derivitaves of vitamin C that are really showing promise to help boost collagen.

As most of us know, the problem with using actual Vitamin C in a skincare product is that it's very unstable and if it oxidizes, it can actually harm the skin by creating free radicals instead of suppressing them. Sad

Ascorbyl palmitate is more stable than Vitamin C and less irritating, which is a good thing. Very Happy

it will oxidize, but not as readily as Vitamin C. The article did say that it was important that the cream containing ascorbyl palmitate (or Vit. C) be white so that you can see if it begins to oxidize. It would turn a yellowish brown color. I guess that's why this cream isn't packaged in a brown bottle. Because it has ascorbyl palmitate that won't oxidize as readily.

A downside to ascorbyl palmitate is that it has not been found to boost collagen as efficiently as Vitamin C.

JUDY

Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:07 am

Thanks for the info on the vit C ester bbiz and Judy. I was wondering that after Judy brought it up. I'm still wondering about the UVA/UVB protection as well.

Crinklecut - glad your bottle arrived safely but I am the WORST person to answer your questions. I was born a beauty junkie. This means that, by my very nature, I use as many things as I can at the same time Embarassed

However, I have been good the last week or so and I have been limiting myself. I still do make sure I use a vit C serum every day or every other day at least. I usually do this when I take a shower in the afternoon after getting home from work. That means that I wash my face at night (the vit C would have absorbed by then) and I then use the Alhaderma CE and some Valmont Bio Cellular over the top for some added moisture. I do use a toner (Dr Hauschka) before I use the Alphaderma CE (and also their prep gel).

Judy, interestingly the 4oz Alphaderma comes in a brown bottle (reminiscent of MD Perricone packaging). Perhaps this is because they expect the 4oz to (obviously) last a lot longer therefore they try to protect it from oxidation? Just thinking out loud here... The product is whitish though so it will be interesting to observe the color of it as time goes by.

Mabsy

free skin care · Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:00 am

not yet received mine, maybe it's waiting for me at home.... Smile

But I've already decided that I would cleanse as I do normally and only apply the Alphaderma CE, that way I can see if it has an effect and not anything else I'm trying.

free skin care · Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:11 am

when I get mine I'm planning on laying off the relaxaline and trying it on half my face only cos I'm in the middle of a trial for what I think is a new virgin vie face serum, so I should be able to give a good account of how it works. When I do use it, I'll apply over my c serum Smile

free skin care · Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:22 am

Doing a 1/2 face test is the best way to really see what a product is doing. It's so difficult to see what's happening when you use a product on both sides because you don't have anything to compare to.

You've just given me a great idea guapagirl! Maybe I could use the Esthers Secret argireline product I've been using on one side and use the AlphaDermaCE on the other side! Think

JUDY

Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:53 am

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'm still trying to get the hang of this thing. It's definitely a step up from VicsVapo Rub on the lips and Preparation H under the eyes, lol! Does anyone find that rubbing the AlphaDerma into creases and laugh lines makes your foundation and powder "settle" into the creases as the day wears on? Maybe it's the olive and soybean oils in the formulation. Today I'll lay off applying a moisturizer and see what happens. I'm hoping the AlphaDerma doesn't act like a makeup magnet, as I do not care for my lines to look like crevasses by the end of the day, hello Swiss Alps. Sheesh.

crinklecut ~~~

free skin care · Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:54 am

crinklecut wrote:

Does anyone find that rubbing the AlphaDerma into creases and laugh lines makes your foundation and powder "settle" into the creases as the day wears on? Maybe it's the olive and soybean oils in the formulation.
crinklecut ~~~

Hmmm, Crinkle I'm really glad you brought that up. I haven't noticed so much because I work from home and most days, I don't wear makeup. This is a real no-no with me, so I'm going to pay attention to that and see. Will report back on what I'm experiencing.

As I've said before, I've been using Jane Iredale pressed powder only, no foundation and that seems to give me the least "caking" into lines. But, if you're using the same makeup that you always have and you're seeing more "caking" that's a good sign that it is either the AlphaDerm or perhaps you don't need moisturizer with the AlphaDerm.

Has anyone experienced their face stinging slightly after applying the AlphaDerm? That has happened to me. I know I've heard some of you talk about that with some Vit. C products. Wonder if that's common with the Vit. C derivative (forgot the name) that's used in this product?

JUDY

free skin care · Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:52 am

JudyMarshall wrote:

Doing a 1/2 face test is the best way to really see what a product is doing. It's so difficult to see what's happening when you use a product on both sides because you don't have anything to compare to.
JUDY

you don't know how long some of us spend staring in the mirror examining every pore and wrinkle! Shock

free skin care · Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:59 am

JudyMarshall wrote:

crinklecut wrote:

Does anyone find that rubbing the AlphaDerma into creases and laugh lines makes your foundation and powder "settle" into the creases as the day wears on? Maybe it's the olive and soybean oils in the formulation.
crinklecut ~~~

Hmmm, Crinkle I'm really glad you brought that up. I haven't noticed so much because I work from home and most days, I don't wear makeup. This is a real no-no with me, so I'm going to pay attention to that and see. Will report back on what I'm experiencing.

Has anyone experienced their face stinging slightly after applying the AlphaDerm? That has happened to me. I know I've heard some of you talk about that with some Vit. C products. Wonder if that's common with the Vit. C derivative (forgot the name) that's used in this product?

JUDY

My bottle was waiting for me when I got home yesterday so of course I had to rip it open, read and apply! So I am just applying the Alphaderma CE and nothing else.

1st, I was about to post saying that on first application it does feel very smooth.
Secondly it doesn't got bitty when applying make-up (lancome, mac stick) so that's a plus, nothing worse than putting on something good for your face and feeling like you've just rubbed it all off.
Have found no caking.

Reading the ingredients I can see why someone mentioned the perricone product which I've tried, that had glycolic and did produce a mild tingle.

Judy, not had any tingling with the Alphaderma.

Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:48 am

I haven't noticed any "powder settling" or cakiness going on either but I have been going for the "dewy" effect lately so I've been skipping the powder step.

Judy - no stinging or any other sensations when I apply it.

Mabsy

free skin care · Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:16 am

Eve wrote:

JudyMarshall wrote:

Doing a 1/2 face test is the best way to really see what a product is doing. It's so difficult to see what's happening when you use a product on both sides because you don't have anything to compare to.
JUDY

you don't know how long some of us spend staring in the mirror examining every pore and wrinkle! Shock

Oh, but I do know! I put in plenty of mirror time myself. Rolling Eyes

It's just that with the masque I've been using, you have the ability to see a difference immediately and it shows dramatically with a 1/2 face application. When you do the whole face, the effect is still there, but it's much more difficult to see because there is no comparison unless you take pictures... and most of us aren't going to take the time to do that.
JUDY

free skin care · Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:35 pm

yippeeeeeeee I got mine tonight, I'm on my way upstairs in a minute to cleanse and tone then apply mine! Earliest night I've had in ages!!!

free skin care · Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:06 pm

I've been using the Alphaderma all week and I've noticed some improvement on my "11" between my eyebrows. I tried the relaxaline and had zero results. I don't know if the results are temporary or get better with time. We'll see ... thank you so much Masby and Ian!

free skin care · Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:56 am

JudyMarshall wrote:

[quote="Eve]
you don't know how long some of us spend staring in the mirror examining every pore and wrinkle! Shock

Oh, but I do know! I put in plenty of mirror time myself. Rolling Eyes

It's just that with the masque I've been using, you have the ability to see a difference immediately and it shows dramatically with a 1/2 face application. When you do the whole face, the effect is still there, but it's much more difficult to see because there is no comparison unless you take pictures... and most of us aren't going to take the time to do that.
JUDY[/quote]

I know, only joking with you Wink

I often guinea pig my mother this way and don't tell her what I'm using.

free skin care · Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:51 am

got mine yesterday...deposited in a jiffy bag Mad

the lid had come off and it was every where so I have nothing to really try. I scraped some off the pump tube and it felt nice and moisturising, but if it's been exposed to the air for 10 days anything good has probably been oxidised. I am very glad I didn't pay $80 for it! Sad

free skin care · Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:27 am

oh no guapagirl! How annoying! Mine came in a jiffy bag too and was fine.

Maybe Ian will send you another one if he is reading Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:25 pm

[quote="Eve]

I know, only joking with you Wink

I often guinea pig my mother this way and don't tell her what I'm using.[/quote]

Well I guess we can all see that I haven't mastered this editing quote material yet. Laughing

You too??? My poor Mom is 82 and I have her taking every nutritional product I come across that I think could help her rheumatoid arthritis. But, we have definitely helped her be more confortable over the years. When I got the facelift masque, she asked me to do a demo on her! Shock

I did and you have to lie very still for 25 min. I think she got bored with it because she asked me more than once, "Is it time?" When the 25 min. was finally up, she said, "I've been about to die to go to the bathroom!" I wish she had said that was what she was feeling. Surprised

You're supposed to lie still so gravity can help the lift, but you certainly can get up (carefully) for emergencies! I felt so bad. Sad

We haven't done the facelift on her again. I think she decided at 82 there's no reason to mess with it. Laughing

JUDY

free skin care · Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:47 pm

The reason they were sent out like that was because they went parcel post. We paid for all the shipping. When we ship large size it is packed in a secure box. I was trying to do eveyone a favor and get it to them quickly at no cost. I will be happy to send you another one again no charge and shipping free. I apologize for your inconvenience.
Thank you
Ian S.

littlebo wrote:

oh no guapagirl! How annoying! Mine came in a jiffy bag too and was fine.

Maybe Ian will send you another one if he is reading Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:18 am

Ian, got your PM and have emailed you....God, you really are a sweetie! Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:04 am

JudyM, My mums not as old but she certainly gets trialed Laughing

FAO Ian,

How would you like the reviews posted? Just anything we notice or something more specific? So I can be making notes as I go along.

Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:52 am

Eve, just post the reviews as you normally would please (whichever way that may be and whatever they may be). We should probably start a new "review" thread for it though.

Guapagirl- great to hear you're getting a replacement. I think this is why Ian usually ships via UPS, so things like that don't happen.

I'm waiting on my mum to start using this (I test on her too Smile

) but she's going o/s for a few weeks and won't start on it till she comes back. My curiosity is killing me though, I want to see if this works for her - she's got some deep lines between her brows.

Mabsy

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