Copper Peptide CAN be used with topical Vitamin C!!!!
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free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:51 am

Hi everyone! I emailed Skinbiology with a question about MAP (a topical Vitamin C derivative) and was surprised at the NEW information I received. This is what I was told:

"Of course with regular vitamin C topical products we are no longer advising clients to be too concerned with the two (vit. C + copper) interacting with one another. In practical application, it is not posing as much of a problem as we had thought. This could very well be due to the fact that vitamin C is a large molecule that is very difficult to penetrate the skin topically. There might not even be enough of the compound getting into the skin to pose a problem with the copper-peptides."

Thought I would pass the information along.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:43 am

Hold the fort! My world just went topsy-turvy!Is this true for all C's (cuz you mentioned MAP). Thanks for the info, this certainly changes things.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:52 am

Hi Marina! Yes, it applies to all topical Vitamin C products -

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:38 am

So what this Skinbio reply is actually saying is that Vitamin C won't penetrate the skin (due to molecular size)...and that is NOT correct. Vitamin C certainly does penetrate the skin, and PubMed or medline contains studies to indicate such.

The better answer would have addressed whether the vitamin C derivatives, which include MAP and Tetra., react with copper peptides as strongly as L-ascorbic acid does. No such information was given, which is curious. I've always taken the Skinbio info with a grain of salt, and after reading this, will continue to do so!

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:52 am

I'm sure that Vitamin C penetrates the skin. I was just reporting what I was told since there has been so much discussion about using Copper Peptide with a topical Vitamin C. MANY, MANY people use Vitamin C with Copper Peptide products and report excellent results. It's just nice to know that there doesn't need to be a 12 hour wait time to use them and that they can be used together.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:01 am

Hi Nanci! This is good news. Personally, my take (old habits are hard to break) was I don't have to put a 12-hour timer on to ring between applications of C's & CP's. But, you're saying at the same time? As for Dr. P., he normally errs too much on the side of caution so for him to come out and say this...

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:09 am

Well my information came from Cassia - his right hand "woman". Apparently he's been researching it more and has changed his opinion. It won't be the first time Laughing

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:15 am

Hmmm, this IS interesting news! I'm planning to introduce CP's to my regimen and was wondering where it would all fit in. I use Vit. C in the am and 1% retinol in the PM. I planned to alternate between retinol and CP's at night so I could incorporate this. Do these new findings mean I can use CP in the morning AND evening?

TIA!

Athena

P.S. I also plan to start using NIA24, containing 5% niaciamide but don't know where it should go into my routine, suggestions anyone? I'm fairly blemish free, early 40's, combo rather than oil but still looking to minimize pores, resolve old acne scars and a few pits and of course deal with fine lines.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:19 am

Thank you so much Nanci getting this information for us. Smile

Loving my C's and Copper Peptides this certainly makes things less complicated.

Must say I am a little puzzled why Skin Biology would say Vit. C does not penetrate well. I have always thought the opposite of C's. Confused

I've been using a C serum or cream since CellexC first hit the market approximately 25 years ago (don't quote me). Vitamin C is the one topical I can say without hesitation has had the best anti-aging benefits to my skin.

Thanks again Nanci.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:27 am

athena123 wrote:

Hmmm, this IS interesting news! I'm planning to introduce CP's to my regimen and was wondering where it would all fit in. I use Vit. C in the am and 1% retinol in the PM. I planned to alternate between retinol and CP's at night so I could incorporate this. Do these new findings mean I can use CP in the morning AND evening?

TIA!

Athena

P.S. I also plan to start using NIA24, containing 5% niaciamide but don't know where it should go into my routine, suggestions anyone? I'm fairly blemish free, early 40's, combo rather than oil but still looking to minimize pores, resolve old acne scars and a few pits and of course deal with fine lines.

Hi Athena, you absolutely CAN use CP twice daily. Since you're new to it though, you should start out by using it only once a day for a couple of weeks, then twice daily. At night, you would use your Retinol fist, then wait about 15 minutes and apply your CP. Who knows, this may change too!! Laughing

Not sure which NIA24 product you're going to be using. Personally, I prefer CP on my skin first but maybe others will reply.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:30 am

Winnie wrote:

Thank you so much Nanci getting this information for us. Smile

Loving my C's and Copper Peptides this certainly makes things less complicated.

Must say I am a little puzzled why Skin Biology would say Vit. C does not penetrate well. I always thought just the opposite of C's. Confused

I've been using a C serum or cream since CellexC first hit the market approximately 25 years ago (don't quote me). Vitamin C is the one topical I can say without hesitation has had the best anti-aging benefits to my skin.

Thanks again Nanci.

Thanks Winnie! I wouldn't pay too much attention to what Cassia said about Vit. C not penetrating well. If it didn't, it wouldn't be as popular as it is. I know SO MANY people who absolutely love it - especially when combined with Copper Peptide.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:48 am

Good news Nanci, thanks for sharing! I'm quite surprised that this comes in such large quantities, how long is a 1 oz. bottle supposed to last? I'm trying to decide whether I should go ahead and spring for the 4 oz. bottle or go through a 1 oz. bottle then upgrade to a higher strength...

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:59 am

A 1 oz. bottle lasts about 1.5 - 2 months. It's a great way to try it. If you love it, then I would get the 4 oz. size (it saves you $$) and I REALLY believe that you should go through a 4 oz. bottle before moving up to Super CP Serum.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:22 am

MBGirl wrote:

So what this Skinbio reply is actually saying is that Vitamin C won't penetrate the skin (due to molecular size)...and that is NOT correct. Vitamin C certainly does penetrate the skin, and PubMed or medline contains studies to indicate such.

i actually don't think this is what she was saying at all. It *is* actually difficult for Vit C to penetrate the skin, not that it doesn't. It's well known that a stronger vit C compound tends to be more effective than a weaker compound because it penetrates the skin better. That's not new knowledge.

What she might be trying to say is that there is a possibility that not enough vitamin C is absorbed into the skin to interfere with copper peptides, *not* that vit C isn't absorbed at all. that is, that there needs to be a certain amt of vitamin C to interact with copper peptides and the skin usually doesn't absorb topically the amt that is needed to interfere.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:11 pm

NCN wrote:

Hi everyone! I emailed Skinbiology with a question about MAP (a topical Vitamin C derivative) and was surprised at the NEW information I received. This is what I was told:

"Of course with regular vitamin C topical products we are no longer advising clients to be too concerned with the two (vit. C + copper) interacting with one another. In practical application, it is not posing as much of a problem as we had thought. This could very well be due to the fact that vitamin C is a large molecule that is very difficult to penetrate the skin topically. There might not even be enough of the compound getting into the skin to pose a problem with the copper-peptides."

Thought I would pass the information along.

What do they mean by "regular vitamin C"???? Perhaps that just means the derivatives of vit C that are added to many creams today, and don't depend on a low PH.

As for L-Ascorbic Acid, at a PH of 3.5 or lower, it most definitely is absorbed by the skin. (Serums are designed with this in mind). The reason it is not recommended to layer it with Copper Peptides, is that the low PH necessary for the C to be absorbed, neutralizes the CP.

Here is a terrific link that explains it all much better than I could ever hope to.. Lots of anti-aging info written by a Doc.

http://www.dermadoctor.com/pages/newsletter201.asp

Kassy

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:21 pm

P.S.

Vitamin C serum every a.m.

Copper Peptides every p.m.

Lets you have your cake, and eat it too!

Kassy

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:50 pm

Sorry, but Dr. Pickart does not endorse the use of CP's and topical Vitamin C together. Here is my exchange with Cassia....

Quote:

Hello Cassia,

Thank-you for the spreadsheet that contains pH levels of all the CP products – this information is very good to know. As soon as you have a moment, can you please confirm that it is now safe to apply a topical Vitamin C Serum at the same time of day as a Copper Peptide serum. Based on my telephone conversation with you and then Dr. Pickart, I believe this is correct and that I can use one after the other without worrying that the CP will negate the effects of the Vitamin C. I just want to double check that I am 100% right about this before I start to use my GHK in the morning after my Vitamin C Serum.

Warm regards,
Lorraine

Quote:

Dear Lorraine:

Yes, clients have used vitamin C along with GHK-Copper. Dr. Pickart says he does not recommend it, but clients have said that they've had good results using both. Of course it should be noted that vitamin C is a large molecule that is very difficult to even penetrate the skin when applied topically (it is best absorbed by taking it as an oral supplement).

Best Wishes,
Cassia M.
SKIN BIOLOGY

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:09 pm

Oh, I don't think anyone said he was endorsing it or recommending it. Only that "we are no longer advising clients to be too concerned with the two (vit. C + copper) interacting with one another".

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:14 pm

NCN wrote:

Well my information came from Cassia - his right hand "woman". Apparently he's been researching it more and has changed his opinion. It won't be the first time Laughing

xxxxxxxx (edited)Dr. Pickart has not been researching the combination of CP's and topical Vitamin C products because I asked him directly if he was during a phone conversation. If you re-read Cassia's comments, what she actually said was this:

"we are no longer advising clients to be too concerned with the two (vit. C + copper) interacting with one another. In practical application, it is not posing as much of a problem as we had thought."

There is no reference in Cassia's comments that Dr. Pickart is researching this combination to substantiate this claim. The lack of concern she is referring to has stemmed from customers who use the two products together and have reported to Skinbio that they have not found that one negates the effects of the other. They volunteered this information on their own. The testing that Dr. Pickart has performed in the past is also in a laboratory, not on human test subjects. What he has observed in a Petri dish indicates that there is a negative effect when CP's interact with topical Vitamin C. What actually happens on your skin is a different matter and one that we'll never really know for certain UNLESS he actually performs a study with people.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:58 pm

well i for one, thank you nancy for your help with this, being that you sell Dr pikarts cp serum and i am sure you talk with him and his staff , i know you are great at what you do . not sure why some of the gals here are taking such a negative tone with you on this. but thank you hon, and will talk with ya later
hugs
georgette

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:14 pm

Long story short, is that; Vitamin C, when applied [u]layered with copper peptides, [u]neutralises the copper peptides.

That being said, the solution to incorporating both actives into your daily regime, is to use vit C in the a.m. (when it does the most good), and copper peptides in the p.m. (Leaving several hours between applications affords you to get benefit from both.)

For those who argue that they get "excellent" results by using them both together, are wasting their "copper peptide" money...The fact of the matter is, they are reaping the benefits of Vitamin C (L-ascorbic Acid) only. If they use C in the a.m. and CP in the p.m., they will benefit from both.

Kassy

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:28 pm

What exactly do copper peptides do?? Which product line is recommended? I am interested in anything anti-inflammatory and anti-aging...

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:35 pm

aathena - the Nia 24 skin strengthening cream would go over your other products you are using.

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:13 pm

hopeful wrote:

well i for one, thank you nancy for your help with this, being that you sell Dr pikarts cp serum and i am sure you talk with him and his staff , i know you are great at what you do . not sure why some of the gals here are taking such a negative tone with you on this. but thank you hon, and will talk with ya later
hugs
georgette

I agree with you on this, Hopeful. Surely this topic can be discussed without the patronizing comments/attitude.... Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:26 pm

brenpatsa wrote:

hopeful wrote:

well i for one, thank you nancy for your help with this, being that you sell Dr pikarts cp serum and i am sure you talk with him and his staff , i know you are great at what you do . not sure why some of the gals here are taking such a negative tone with you on this. but thank you hon, and will talk with ya later
hugs
georgette

I agree with you on this, Hopeful. Surely this topic can be discussed without the patronizing comments/attitude.... Rolling Eyes

thanks hon Wink

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