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Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:35 pm  |
| I'm using renova 0.05% at night. Should I use copper peptides or vit c serum in the am, and would I need a moisturiser over or under the cp/c serum? TIA!!! |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:46 pm |
dear sienna,
it depends on how old you are. I think if you are over 50, cps can make a real difference, as they are a "remodeling" agent. But I wouldn't try them unless your skin is very damaged already. In other words, copper peptides are not an "anti-aging" product. I found out the hard way: upon using very conservatively the weakest formulation for several months, the texture of my skin and its natural elasticity were significantly and adversely affected. My skin is now covered with very large pores and bumps all over, 9 months later, despite several peels and retin-a and also months of good old benign neglect. I keep hoping that my skin will go back to "normal," but it has not really yet (I have my good and bad days).
When I had the person who sold me the cps ask Dr. Pickart (the founder and formulator) about my condition (I provided pics), he asked, upon seeing my photos, why in the world I would be using cps, since my skin still looked young. So, I'm gathering from this experience that cps are NOT meant for skin that is still, however you want to call it, "young." Or, shall we say, relatively undamaged. I'm 32.
I also think that vitamin c can be very acidic and detrimental to the skin barrier as well. Just be careful and don't use too many acidic products on the skin at once--you will cause damage.
In my opinion, a great nourishing product line as a base (like Osea), plus an anti-aging-specific product (such as NIA 24 or Remergent) will work best to preserve what you have, along with the Renova.
--avalange |
_________________
http://newnaturalbeauty.tumblr.com/ 37, light-toned olive skin, broken caps, normal skin. My staples: Osea cleansing milk, Algae Oil, Advanced Protection Cream, Eyes & Lips, Tata Harper, Julie Hewett makeup, Amazing Cosmetics Powder, & By Terry Light Expert, Burnout, and daily inversion therapy and green smoothies! |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:59 pm |
| Where do you get NIA 24? |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:41 pm |
I have been using Vitamin C for around 20 years. Last year I introduced Copper Peptides. A high potency C has done wonders to preserve nice skin for my mature age. CP's have worked well on my neck and declotee this past year. If I could only pick one active it would have to be Vitamin C. IMO every woman should use a Vitamin C on a daily basis.
Moisturizer should be used after Vitamin C or CP serums.
Vit C AM/Renova PM  |
_________________
As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:58 pm |
| avalange wrote: |
dear sienna,
it depends on how old you are. I think if you are over 50, cps can make a real difference, as they are a "remodeling" agent. But I wouldn't try them unless your skin is very damaged already. In other words, copper peptides are not an "anti-aging" product. I found out the hard way: upon using very conservatively the weakest formulation for several months, the texture of my skin and its natural elasticity were significantly and adversely affected. My skin is now covered with very large pores and bumps all over, 9 months later, despite several peels and retin-a and also months of good old benign neglect. I keep hoping that my skin will go back to "normal," but it has not really yet (I have my good and bad days).
When I had the person who sold me the cps ask Dr. Pickart (the founder and formulator) about my condition (I provided pics), he asked, upon seeing my photos, why in the world I would be using cps, since my skin still looked young. So, I'm gathering from this experience that cps are NOT meant for skin that is still, however you want to call it, "young." Or, shall we say, relatively undamaged. I'm 32.
I also think that vitamin c can be very acidic and detrimental to the skin barrier as well. Just be careful and don't use too many acidic products on the skin at once--you will cause damage.
In my opinion, a great nourishing product line as a base (like Osea), plus an anti-aging-specific product (such as NIA 24 or Remergent) will work best to preserve what you have, along with the Renova.
--avalange |
Hi, I got really worried when I read this post since I have been using CP's for several months and I am not 50 yet and I also have enlarged pores. After much search it seems that CP's have wound healing and anti-aging properties however over use of CP's and in some rare cases over sensitivity to CP's under normal usage can lead to adverse side effects such as degredation in elasticity. Now I do not know what to do and I am scared that I have damaged my skin. Some of you ladies who are under 50 please chime in and give your input! Thanks! |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:40 pm |
Starlight,
Sorry to cause you anxiety! I have heard that cps "bring damage to the surface," and that you then have to "slough it off" with retin-a and other exfoliants. That is apparently why cps must be used with lots of acids and retinoids. My hunch is the following: if you don't have damaged looking skin, why "bring it all up to the surface," especially if you cannot ever be sure that the damage being brought up (and that process by which damage is being brought up is only an interpretation of what is happening to your skin) will go away, or that you are taking the appropriate measures to rid the outer layers of the dermis of the damage, etc. For instance, my skin is too sensitive to use such harsh exfoliants, so how could I ever get rid of that surface damage? I do not want to look older beyond my years, especially since I look much younger than my years.
SO, my theory actually goes something like this: If you already have lots of visible damage, why not give it a try. If your damage is still invisible to the naked eye, why not wait. Hope that all makes sense.
--avalange
p.s. I ordered some samples from NIA and plan to use the skin strengthening complex to try to reverse some of the damage. And I'm on a long-term retin-a plan to turn over the skin cells and hopefully rid myself of the issues cps created.
p.p.s After extensive research on the internet, i think it is pretty clear that cps cause enlarged pores in many users. Enlarged pores are a sign of lost elasticity and thus, they make one look older.
| Starlight wrote: |
| avalange wrote: |
dear sienna,
it depends on how old you are. I think if you are over 50, cps can make a real difference, as they are a "remodeling" agent. But I wouldn't try them unless your skin is very damaged already. In other words, copper peptides are not an "anti-aging" product. I found out the hard way: upon using very conservatively the weakest formulation for several months, the texture of my skin and its natural elasticity were significantly and adversely affected. My skin is now covered with very large pores and bumps all over, 9 months later, despite several peels and retin-a and also months of good old benign neglect. I keep hoping that my skin will go back to "normal," but it has not really yet (I have my good and bad days).
When I had the person who sold me the cps ask Dr. Pickart (the founder and formulator) about my condition (I provided pics), he asked, upon seeing my photos, why in the world I would be using cps, since my skin still looked young. So, I'm gathering from this experience that cps are NOT meant for skin that is still, however you want to call it, "young." Or, shall we say, relatively undamaged. I'm 32.
I also think that vitamin c can be very acidic and detrimental to the skin barrier as well. Just be careful and don't use too many acidic products on the skin at once--you will cause damage.
In my opinion, a great nourishing product line as a base (like Osea), plus an anti-aging-specific product (such as NIA 24 or Remergent) will work best to preserve what you have, along with the Renova.
--avalange |
Hi, I got really worried when I read this post since I have been using CP's for several months and I am not 50 yet and I also have enlarged pores. After much search it seems that CP's have wound healing and anti-aging properties however over use of CP's and in some rare cases over sensitivity to CP's under normal usage can lead to adverse side effects such as degredation in elasticity. Now I do not know what to do and I am scared that I have damaged my skin. Some of you ladies who are under 50 please chime in and give your input! Thanks! |
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_________________
http://newnaturalbeauty.tumblr.com/ 37, light-toned olive skin, broken caps, normal skin. My staples: Osea cleansing milk, Algae Oil, Advanced Protection Cream, Eyes & Lips, Tata Harper, Julie Hewett makeup, Amazing Cosmetics Powder, & By Terry Light Expert, Burnout, and daily inversion therapy and green smoothies! |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:08 am |
poor you, avalange! hope your skin will get better soon!
and thank you for warning! I`m 30 and will not try cps after all these awful stories!  |
_________________
31, combo - oily, breakout-prone, fair complexion, sensitive and prone to rosacea |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:31 am |
| What is Renova? Where can I find it? Can it be used as a night cream? I am looking for one...thanks |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:40 am |
| avalange: I am going to lay off the CP's and start using the retin A. What does NIA stands for? Thanks! |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:01 am |
| Starlight wrote: |
| avalange: I am going to lay off the CP's and start using the retin A. What does NIA stands for? Thanks! |
Well I am so happy for this post...I am fairly new here and am new to skin care..I have been using Tozorac (similar to retin-a) and acids for yrs but now that I have turned 40 I am on the anti-aging quest..trying to keep my skin looking as good as I possibly can. I am STILL very confused on what approach to take. But the funny (or not so funny) thing is that I found a bottle of Neova Cp's that I bought yrs ago and decided to start using it in the p.m. I noticed that I have developed wrinkling in my cheek area (when I smile) that I never saw before..I had no idea what was going on..well I think it may be the uglies!!!! I actually have pretty good skin..I have some hyper pigmentation and my eyes are starting to wrinkle but the rest of my face is pretty good..So from what I read here I really should wait on the pc's ..right???
I am going to stop using the cp's and see if my cheeks get back to normal..
Lou |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:15 am |
| I just ordered SkinBiology CP Serum to start using after my Obagi regimen. I was going to work it into my routine somehow....now what? |
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Kim 58, living in Ohio |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:12 am |
| avalange wrote: |
dear sienna,
When I had the person who sold me the cps ask Dr. Pickart (the founder and formulator) about my condition (I provided pics), he asked, upon seeing my photos, why in the world I would be using cps, since my skin still looked young. So, I'm gathering from this experience that cps are NOT meant for skin that is still, however you want to call it, "young." Or, shall we say, relatively undamaged. I'm 32.
--avalange |
what about the other purported uses of cp's other than aging, like acne scarring? So is it only appropriate for those with acne scars and aged skin?
I used copper peptide for some time for acne scars, and while I didn't have an adverse effects, I didn't really notice any improvement in scars either (though it did unclog all my nose blackheads, and it was nice to use in conjunction with tarzorac as it eased any sort of irritation). I must admit though, I didn't use it for very long, maybe 2 months.
I was thinking about trying it again in one of his different formulations, though I'm now worried about this premature aging factor. |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:12 am |
| avalange wrote: |
dear sienna,
it depends on how old you are. I think if you are over 50, cps can make a real difference, as they are a "remodeling" agent. But I wouldn't try them unless your skin is very damaged already. In other words, copper peptides are not an "anti-aging" product. I found out the hard way: upon using very conservatively the weakest formulation for several months, the texture of my skin and its natural elasticity were significantly and adversely affected. My skin is now covered with very large pores and bumps all over, 9 months later, despite several peels and retin-a and also months of good old benign neglect. I keep hoping that my skin will go back to "normal," but it has not really yet (I have my good and bad days).
When I had the person who sold me the cps ask Dr. Pickart (the founder and formulator) about my condition (I provided pics), he asked, upon seeing my photos, why in the world I would be using cps, since my skin still looked young. So, I'm gathering from this experience that cps are NOT meant for skin that is still, however you want to call it, "young." Or, shall we say, relatively undamaged. I'm 32.
I also think that vitamin c can be very acidic and detrimental to the skin barrier as well. Just be careful and don't use too many acidic products on the skin at once--you will cause damage.
In my opinion, a great nourishing product line as a base (like Osea), plus an anti-aging-specific product (such as NIA 24 or Remergent) will work best to preserve what you have, along with the Renova.
--avalange |
Thank you so much for your helpful reply! I'm 38 and I want to try to 'stop' the clock on my skin as it's not wrinkled, and I have very little sun damage. Just a couple of fine lines that I want to stop right now before they get worse. My skin texture is fine/delicate and I'm extremely fair toned. Copper Peptides are all the buzz on skin care boards, so it's hard to find a factual answer! THANK YOU! |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:14 am |
| Winnie wrote: |
I have been using Vitamin C for around 20 years. Last year I introduced Copper Peptides. A high potency C has done wonders to preserve nice skin for my mature age. CP's have worked well on my neck and declotee this past year. If I could only pick one active it would have to be Vitamin C. IMO every woman should use a Vitamin C on a daily basis.
Moisturizer should be used after Vitamin C or CP serums.
Vit C AM/Renova PM |
Winnie thank you. Do you know if Vit C serum irritates fine/normal/sensitive skin, and which brand would you recommend I start with? |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:17 am |
| JesseGirl wrote: |
| What is Renova? Where can I find it? Can it be used as a night cream? I am looking for one...thanks |
Renova is Retin-A in a cream form, and when I use it, it doesn't cause as much irritation or peeling as Retin-A. I use the Galderma 0.05% generic brand. It should only be used in the PM (light sensitive) and you must use a sunscreen during the day. I use Renova without a night cream, but afaik you can use a night cream over the renova about 45 minutes after applying it. I think emu oil might work well. I haven't tried emu oil yet, but I have heard good things about it. (Except that it can smell pungent.) |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:26 am |
| Sienna wrote: |
| Winnie wrote: |
I have been using Vitamin C for around 20 years. Last year I introduced Copper Peptides. A high potency C has done wonders to preserve nice skin for my mature age. CP's have worked well on my neck and declotee this past year. If I could only pick one active it would have to be Vitamin C. IMO every woman should use a Vitamin C on a daily basis.
Moisturizer should be used after Vitamin C or CP serums.
Vit C AM/Renova PM |
Winnie thank you. Do you know if Vit C serum irritates fine/normal/sensitive skin, and which brand would you recommend I start with? |
I suggest you start with a low percent of Vitamin C Serum. Three come to mind for a more sensitive skin: Vivier 10%, Cellular Skin RX or Janson Beckett C&C. If you shop at EDS you could ask them if they had any samples of C for sensitive skin in your next order.
Irritation usually occurs if you start off with too high a percentage. You should be fine with the mentioned brands. |
_________________
As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:26 pm |
| Winnie wrote: |
| Sienna wrote: |
| Winnie wrote: |
I have been using Vitamin C for around 20 years. Last year I introduced Copper Peptides. A high potency C has done wonders to preserve nice skin for my mature age. CP's have worked well on my neck and declotee this past year. If I could only pick one active it would have to be Vitamin C. IMO every woman should use a Vitamin C on a daily basis.
Moisturizer should be used after Vitamin C or CP serums.
Vit C AM/Renova PM |
Winnie thank you. Do you know if Vit C serum irritates fine/normal/sensitive skin, and which brand would you recommend I start with? |
I suggest you start with a low percent of Vitamin C Serum. Three come to mind for a more sensitive skin: Vivier 10%, Cellular Skin RX or Janson Beckett C&C. If you shop at EDS you could ask them if they had any samples of C for sensitive skin in your next order.
Irritation usually occurs if you start off with too high a percentage. You should be fine with the mentioned brands. |
Winnie, thank you for the info on Vit C serum. Does a moisturiser have to be used over it and would emu oil work? |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:28 pm |
| avalange wrote: |
dear sienna,
it depends on how old you are. I think if you are over 50, cps can make a real difference, as they are a "remodeling" agent. But I wouldn't try them unless your skin is very damaged already. In other words, copper peptides are not an "anti-aging" product. I found out the hard way: upon using very conservatively the weakest formulation for several months, the texture of my skin and its natural elasticity were significantly and adversely affected. My skin is now covered with very large pores and bumps all over, 9 months later, despite several peels and retin-a and also months of good old benign neglect. I keep hoping that my skin will go back to "normal," but it has not really yet (I have my good and bad days).
When I had the person who sold me the cps ask Dr. Pickart (the founder and formulator) about my condition (I provided pics), he asked, upon seeing my photos, why in the world I would be using cps, since my skin still looked young. So, I'm gathering from this experience that cps are NOT meant for skin that is still, however you want to call it, "young." Or, shall we say, relatively undamaged. I'm 32.
I also think that vitamin c can be very acidic and detrimental to the skin barrier as well. Just be careful and don't use too many acidic products on the skin at once--you will cause damage.
In my opinion, a great nourishing product line as a base (like Osea), plus an anti-aging-specific product (such as NIA 24 or Remergent) will work best to preserve what you have, along with the Renova.
--avalange |
Avalange, I just looked up the NIA24 and it says it's for sun damaged sin. I don't have sun damaged skin, would it still work for me? |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:27 pm |
| I use Platinium Skincare's glycolic toner 10%, followed by Copper Serum and Emu oil. I am forty one and my skin texture has improved greatly. No more cystic acne! I also use an exfoliating cleanser on a daily basis and a TCA peel once / month. |
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:22 am |
| Vitamin C helps to promote Collagen |
_________________
sensitive oily/combination, green eyes, brown hair, fair skin |
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:00 am |
| belledivine67 wrote: |
| I use Platinium Skincare's glycolic toner 10%, followed by Copper Serum and Emu oil. I am forty one and my skin texture has improved greatly. No more cystic acne! I also use an exfoliating cleanser on a daily basis and a TCA peel once / month. |
May I ask what tca peel you use. I would like to add a peel to my routine.
Thanks Lou |
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:28 pm |
I just started CPs about 3 wks ago and really like what is going on for me. Of course - I'm 49 and getting slightly saggy in the jowls. No sun damage -per say.
Winnie (or anyone else) - can Vit C be used on OILY skin? I tried the CE Feurlic and it caused me to break out. (Must've been the E in it).
What would you recommend? And, what can it do for me?
Loss of elasticity is my main concern. I do have some vertical lip lines as well. But - my skin looks pretty good otherwise due to my oily skin and use of Tazorac for years and years. |
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:10 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
I just started CPs about 3 wks ago and really like what is going on for me. Of course - I'm 49 and getting slightly saggy in the jowls. No sun damage -per say.
Winnie (or anyone else) - can Vit C be used on OILY skin? I tried the CE Feurlic and it caused me to break out. (Must've been the E in it).
What would you recommend? And, what can it do for me?
Loss of elasticity is my main concern. I do have some vertical lip lines as well. But - my skin looks pretty good otherwise due to my oily skin and use of Tazorac for years and years. |
Vitamin C will diffinately help with loss of elasticity! If you skin is oily I think Cellex C would be great for you. C can be used on all skin types. Many people with skin on the dryer side find C can dehydrate and they must apply a moisturizer over it.
I don't want to overwhelm you but it is also good to take Vit. C internally. Skin Biology site recommends this when using CP's. Daily I take 1000 mgs. Vit. C and 1000 mgs. MSM. Several members take a higher does but find what I take fine. |
_________________
As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something |
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Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:15 pm |
| Sienna wrote: |
| Winnie wrote: |
| Sienna wrote: |
| Winnie wrote: |
I have been using Vitamin C for around 20 years. Last year I introduced Copper Peptides. A high potency C has done wonders to preserve nice skin for my mature age. CP's have worked well on my neck and declotee this past year. If I could only pick one active it would have to be Vitamin C. IMO every woman should use a Vitamin C on a daily basis.
Moisturizer should be used after Vitamin C or CP serums.
Vit C AM/Renova PM |
Winnie thank you. Do you know if Vit C serum irritates fine/normal/sensitive skin, and which brand would you recommend I start with? |
I suggest you start with a low percent of Vitamin C Serum. Three come to mind for a more sensitive skin: Vivier 10%, Cellular Skin RX or Janson Beckett C&C. If you shop at EDS you could ask them if they had any samples of C for sensitive skin in your next order.
Irritation usually occurs if you start off with too high a percentage. You should be fine with the mentioned brands. |
Winnie, thank you for the info on Vit C serum. Does a moisturiser have to be used over it and would emu oil work? |
Sienna,
If you usually wear a moisturizer then you should apply one after Vit. C. Many say that you should wait around 20 minutes after applying C to moisturize. Unfortunately, I rarely have the time to do this. I try to wait approximately 5 minutes and apply a moisturizer of choice. Emu oil is a fine moisturizer. Actually it helps push actives in. HTH's |
_________________
As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something |
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