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Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:40 am |
lilredhead....I have not received the eye serum yet....hope to this week. I will let you know the ingredient list on the package when I get it. Also, will tell you if it is at all irritating to the eye area. I think I have the most sensitive eyes on the planet so I'm an excellent test case.
I understand your confusion re the ingredients. I encountered that also but decided to just go ahead and purchase since I needed an eye cream/serum. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:45 am |
Just want to add that the little bit of info I have on "methylisothiazolinone" is that it should only be used in rinse-off products because it can be irritating if left on the skin. Got this info from the Paula Begoun website. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:25 am |
bushy wrote: |
One of the ingredients in the eye product is methylisothiazolinone and there are numerous opinions of this ingredient as to whether it should be used on the skin. Some have said it can contribute to nerve damage and most refer to it being an ingredient in household cleaning products to prevent bacteria. Does anyone know any positive info on this ingredient? |
YIKES! |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:54 am |
There is no info on the box, nor is there anything on the bottle itself. Since mine was also missing a leaflet inside the box - there is no info, except what is available on the website.
Lucy. |
_________________ Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:25 am |
Before I went to Lisa Bradbury in San Francisco I went up the street to Spa Sole that also carries the products. They carry the whole line but were out of alot, the phone kept ringing and we were constantly interrupted so it got to be a little frustrating.
She uses the 302 drops sometimes once to twice a week to sometimes once every two weeks. The A boost she uses only once a week at the most.
The cleanser she said to use every other night or even once to twice a week, that the products are very potent and it is best to use them less.
That is why I am thinking that this line can be used with other product lines as long as it doesn't contain acids.
She was very oily so she didn't use an additional moisturizer. But Lisa recommends a plain type over the drops. HTH |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:12 am |
Thanks for the info, Sigma. I'm not too happy about no ingredient list on the box or info leaflet inside either, but nothing I can do about that now.
How are you liking the product? Can you give us an early review?
I'm anxiously waiting the arrival of mine and the "Recovery Plus" which I also ordered. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:35 am |
lilredhead wrote: |
Question: Has anyone used the 302 drops or serum around the eye area? I see that they have an eye product but it does not contain the avocatin 302 that these products have. |
I have used both the serum and drops right on my eyelids since the start and never had any problems. The eye serum is relatively new but I've never had problems with creases around my eyes, so I just never had an interest in trying that. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:39 am |
sigma wrote: |
There is no info on the box, nor is there anything on the bottle itself. Since mine was also missing a leaflet inside the box - there is no info, except what is available on the website.
Lucy. |
Every box should have an insert with instructions and ingredients. I've never opened a box that didn't have it included. I would email or call the place where you got it and ask why you didn't get it. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:03 am |
I bugged Dr. H about the book again. He sent me email describing it alittle more. Thought you all would be interested to know. They have plans apparently on 2 direct-to-customer lines where you won't need to consult with an esthestician. Apparently, these are more gentle formulations. He also talks about those in this note. I asked him if I could post this info on the forum, and he said I could, so here it is:
Hi Nancy
...Actually my problem is attention. I am so deeply involved in the preparation of materials for our FDA new drug application that it has quite overwhelmed my time. There are thousands of pages of documents in preparation and this will go on for at least another year.
The book is an overview of skincare for the last few decades with an eye to incorporating realistic and practical approaches in esthetics for the future. It analyzes the reasons for many of the disconnects between skin biology and skincare practices, most of the conflicts having to do with the focus of medicine and medical practices and drug therapeutics being wrongly used to address aging – aging is not a pathology that needs to be targeted with drugs (the focus of skincare today with its therapeutic application modality – e.g. “Take three times per day before meals until container is empty”) so much as it is an epigenetic outcome that can be addressed by deconstructing poor functionality and renormalizing the cascade of synthesis and cell maintenance. Cancer, which might be abstractly regarded as a symptom of aging, is a key insight into this epigenetic domain. More and more it is clear that cancer can be controlled when we can teach the cell to do what it was supposed to do, rather than bombard it with growth limiting factors and immuno suppressants or simple cell destruction. So with aging skin. It makes little sense to exhaust tissues and cells with drugs (topical products) when those cells are already weak and poorly functioning due to errors. This repair theory of skincare is dominant today. The repair model induces damage to stimulate repair. In other words, as I am fond of saying, the beatings will stop when the skin looks better. This is where we are in skin esthetics today, with a few exceptions, and almost every current approach (especially the latest one, antioxidants) are chimeras, that will do more harm than good.
And so on, it is a lot of digging and sorting. I will link you to Bernard Ackerman’s new book on the myth of sunscreens when it is published in June. He and his partner Joffe are research dermatologists and Columbia Univ. profs who are systematically taking apart the myth of melanoma and sunlight as well as most of the skin cancer hysteria regarding sunlight. This is another front in the war against The Fog of skincare misinformation.
As for consumers: in the next three weeks, Calmskin will go online for direct sales (Calmskin.com) and will be used to help with the appearance of rosacea.
A second line, Metabolique, will go up online for direct sales (Metabolique.com) and in a few Manhattan stores, in about three months, and contain many of the 302 products available to the docs and the estheticians but in a more consumer friendly form and be focused on anti-aging. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:59 am |
Boski, thanks for contacting him and sharing the reply!
My thoughts at this point are that his theories definitely seem to make sense. I am going to focus on using up my current stuff, test out my new LED, and then hopefully integrate 302 after I read more feedback over time.
In the meantime, I am immediately implementing some of Dr. Huber's recommendations like rotating actives, and cutting back on acid use frequency (though the most I use is an 8% Lactic/2% Salicylic combo and Retin A a couple of times a week). |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:44 pm |
The eye serum felt nice on the skin, but it did not sink in. Aside for that I had not seen any immediate effect or improvement, nor did I expect one.
The good point was that it did not irritate my eyes, and they are very sensitive and frequently react to skin care.
That is all I can say after one use.
I am not very concerned with a missing leaflet, I am sure someone was curious and just looked it over and forgot to put back. I would love to have it to get the list of ingredients and instructions.
I am more concerned that I got 2 pimples after using Drops just once, and I can not recall that happening ever - may be a clogged pore or two, but 2 pimples by the end of the day?
Makes me very hesitant to try it again.
I am currently trying to recover from the electrolysis treatment I had 2.5 weeks ago - so have bumps and scabs, and a total mess.
The area where I got these pimples was perfectly clear in the morning - there were no electrolysis done there.
Lucy. |
_________________ Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:58 pm |
Guess what...I caved.
I ordered the C Boost (acid compatible) and the Recovery Plus (compatible with acids that are not greater than 10%).
I was going to get Vit C anyway, so I figured I would go the non-acid route since there may indeed be some merit to avoiding inflammation.
I am just going to make sure that I keep my Retin A rotation away from the Recovery Plus, just in case.
I'll let you know how it goes! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:00 pm |
Boski, do you happen to know Dr. Huber's view on LEDs? Does he consider them to be inflammatory?
Thanks!! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:43 pm |
I remember way back when the line first came out I called and talked extensively to the nutritionist Sharlene who was very informative. She suggested that I take wheat grass supplements and also eat red beets and red cabbage because it is very good for your skin. I took the wheat grass but it made my stomach nauseous, which she said it might because it does detox your system. But I do try to eat the beets and red cabbage. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:23 am |
boski wrote: |
Hi Nancy
This is where we are in skin esthetics today, with a few exceptions, and almost every current approach (especially the latest one, antioxidants) are chimeras, that will do more harm than good.
And so on, it is a lot of digging and sorting. I will link you to Bernard Ackerman’s new book on the myth of sunscreens when it is published in June. He and his partner Joffe are research dermatologists and Columbia Univ. profs who are systematically taking apart the myth of melanoma and sunlight as well as most of the skin cancer hysteria regarding sunlight. This is another front in the war against The Fog of skincare misinformation.
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These comments do not give me any confidence in Dr Huber at all. I find the comments a bit alarming. |
_________________ Skin: Over 60, ex combination now sensitive, Cellcosmet |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:16 am |
I have heard before, I cant recall where, that it is our poor nutritional status and hormonal imbalances that are causing the rise in skin cancer.
Our skin is no longer able to cope with the elements, quite simply. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:01 am |
Sigma...thank you for sharing your excperience with the eye serum. I too have extremely sensitive eyes so I am delighted to hear that you did not experience any irritation. As for the two pimples you got after the drops all I can say from my own experiences is that sometimes new prducts can cause break outs. Of course I can't say that this is the cause of yours but it could be a possibility.
Boski....thank you very much for sharing Dr. H.'s email with us. I was very interested in what he had to say especially when I have the same views but in a less scientific manner. I always found sunscreens to be highly questionable but of course I would never publicly say such a thing because it goes against the current way of thinking. I'm also very excited about the fact that soon consumers can buy some of the products online without consultation. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:13 am |
I started on the 302 rosacea range just over a month ago. I like the simplicity and my skin feels lovely. I use a little organic avocado oil for additional moisture in the morning and emu at night.
I'm hoping to add some of the anti-aging elements the next time I can get my buns over to see my esthetician. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:16 am |
Bethany, Can't wait to hear how it goes with C Boost....
Sis |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:18 am |
nakeidknits wrote: |
I started on the 302 rosacea range just over a month ago. I like the simplicity and my skin feels lovely. I use a little organic avocado oil for additional moisture in the morning and emu at night.
I'm hoping to add some of the anti-aging elements the next time I can get my buns over to see my esthetician. |
nakedidknits,
have you seen improvement in your Rosacea? |
_________________ Recent Karin Herzog convert. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:26 am |
bushy wrote: |
boski wrote: |
Hi Nancy
This is where we are in skin esthetics today, with a few exceptions, and almost every current approach (especially the latest one, antioxidants) are chimeras, that will do more harm than good.
And so on, it is a lot of digging and sorting. I will link you to Bernard Ackerman’s new book on the myth of sunscreens when it is published in June. He and his partner Joffe are research dermatologists and Columbia Univ. profs who are systematically taking apart the myth of melanoma and sunlight as well as most of the skin cancer hysteria regarding sunlight. This is another front in the war against The Fog of skincare misinformation.
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These comments do not give me any confidence in Dr Huber at all. I find the comments a bit alarming. |
While eyebrow raising I searched at Amazon and Dr. Ackerman has written many books on skin and it's disorders, several dealing with melanoma. I'm interested enough to see what he has to say. |
_________________ Recent Karin Herzog convert. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:00 am |
Apparently I have incipient rosacea, sensitive, acne-prone skin, a few broken caps, not full-blown rosacea. I think I'm seeing a more even skin tone and have had very few breakouts--a zit or two here are there that I'm attributing to OCM to remove sunscreen. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:20 am |
bethany wrote: |
Boski, do you happen to know Dr. Huber's view on LEDs? Does he consider them to be inflammatory?
Thanks!! |
No quite the opposite. He highly endorses the use of LED in conjunction with 302. That's where I first heard of LED, from conversations with him 3 years ago. I believe he did some clinical studies to try to pinpoint what the best ranges were in the light spectrum to use for skin rejuvenation. I don't know what he found out, would be interesting to hear what he found out. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:36 am |
cookie wrote: |
I remember way back when the line first came out I called and talked extensively to the nutritionist Sharlene who was very informative. She suggested that I take wheat grass supplements and also eat red beets and red cabbage because it is very good for your skin. I took the wheat grass but it made my stomach nauseous, which she said it might because it does detox your system. But I do try to eat the beets and red cabbage. |
Also consider MSM, vitamin C, and fish oil. All are helpful in maintaining skin health. I take a bunch of other supplements too, to boost my immune system. When you eat better (more veggies, less sugar and refined carbs) that reflects in your skin. There is also a mind connection. Reduce some of the stress in your life, do things you enjoy, think positive, and get enough sleep! It's hard in times like this, but try and you will feel much better about yourself and it does show in your face. Ever notice how people under duress seem to age twice as fast. It's the stress. Also, remember one of the key things too is circulation. Increase your circulation through regular exercise, massage of your face, cupping, brushing, hot towels, etc, and this can increase your success rate too. Blood brings oxygen to your skin, much like the philosophy behind KH's line. |
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:36 am |
boski wrote: |
bethany wrote: |
Boski, do you happen to know Dr. Huber's view on LEDs? Does he consider them to be inflammatory?
Thanks!! |
No quite the opposite. He highly endorses the use of LED in conjunction with 302. That's where I first heard of LED, from conversations with him 3 years ago. I believe he did some clinical studies to try to pinpoint what the best ranges were in the light spectrum to use for skin rejuvenation. I don't know what he found out, would be interesting to hear what he found out. |
Your question made me remember this one testimonial on the AdvanThera website (they make Quasar LED units). It was from an esthetician in Colorado. I read it a long time ago and it pretty much convinced me I needed the Quasar SP.
I just wanted you to hear about some of my success stories. A client of mine who is receiving facials with the Quasar, has had 2/3 rds reduction in the depth of the whisper lines on the upper lip which were unusually deep and coarse. We achieved these results within 5 treatments and the lines continue to improve. Needless to say, she is thrilled and has sent me a couple of new clients.
Another client of mine is 53 and has had chronic acne for most of her life. She has tried Accutane twice and every prescription available according to her history. I have been doing Quasar treatments and microcurrent facials on her with a home care regimen of the 302 products. She called a day after the 1st session and "demanded" to know what I was doing to her face. It scared me a little because she was so aggressive with her question and I thought I was in trouble. She actually was thrilled with the texture and clarity of her skin and said it had never looked so good and could not believe it.
Regards,
Phyllis Baker in Colorado |
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