 |
 |
| Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:38 am  |
Boski, it is clear from your photos that your active acne subsided quite nicely, but have your depressed acne scars diminished or gone away, too? (I'm not referring to the red marks but the actual depressions in the skin, like chicken pox scars)
I'm interested in 302 because I too thik overexfoliation is a dire mistake. I don't think all acids are bad, however, but I think allowing irritation to the skin is extremely harmful. For example, if tretinoin can be used at such a low dose as to avoid irritation, I think it's fine and studies have found it to be far more effectove than the form of vitamin A found in the 302 A-Boost drops.
I think the shining star active in this line is the original 302 Drops product. I'm a huge fan of topically applied avocado oil, and certainly avocatin is similarly derived (see patent info available online). Avocatin is absolutely more wearable, and far less messy, than is unrefined, coldpressed avocado oil. But there is no doubt in my mind that there is something very regenerative to the dermis in avocado.
I think the philosphy of being gentle to ones skin, allowing it to heal and sustain itself without slathering on a topical every moment is sound, excellent advice. I think certain products in the 302 Akincare line cold be replaced with others in different brandlines, as long as the ingredients are similarly gentle and non-acidic...such as the facial cleansers. The 302 Skincare philosphy is very interesting.
Thanks for mentioning this skincare philosophy!  |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:17 pm |
havana, thank you very much for your post, it was most helpful..
I'm very confused on a couple of points, and hope someone using the line can enlighten me..
From what I've read on the 302 site, acids and exfoliation is a no-no. So what makes their C-Boost non acid? And since vitamin A in all forms causes exfolliation, what makes their A-Boost different..
I'm sure I'm totally missing something obvious, and will feel the fool in short order.. 
Thanks for you help! |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:41 pm |
What a change !! your before and afters !!
Your photos are fantastic !!
Thanks again for the details and excellent product review.
And congratulations on being so faithful to one treatment.
I think sometimes I dont give products a fair chance before I jump onto the next "rave".
You look so beautiful ! |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:36 pm |
MB Girl, Yes it definitely did fill in my acne scars. That's what really sold me on this line. Because no other topical had ever done that for me. I did get visible filling in but at about 6 months, I seemed to plateau. So at these times I would take 2-3 week breaks without 302 and use something else nonacid or just use plain cleanser of some sort. I think Epicuren was one line I alternated with in the beginning, maybe Karin Herzog. I can't remember exactly. Now I alternate with Osmosis. When I got back on the 302 regimen, my skin would improve even more. I still had shallow scars though, but more than 80% improvement. Then, I read about the dermaroller a few months back and started incorporating that with the 302 drops and super serum. Also used my ultrasound spatula to push the 302 further. Both these procedures seemed to really help fill in scars even more. I also LED 3-4 times a week. I really feel these gadgets do make a difference. I still have very tiny scars, but they are almost not visible unless in a certain light and angle. The true test is the dept store mirror (with the awful fluorescent lights) and car window reflections. I can truly tell how much smoother my skin is from those two things.
Kassy, I can honestly say I have not used any acids or acid form of A or C since starting. The forms that are used in 302 are non-acid forms, less irritating to the skin than ascorbic or Retin-A. I used 302 exclusively for a long time before adding other lines to alternate with (because your skin can get used to even 302).
So I think you need to quit everything else when first starting to avoid any potential problems and determine how you react to 302, if at all. It may not work as well for you as it does for me. Everybody's biochemistry is different. Everybody's skin history is different. If you've had extensive invasive procedures (from CO2 or Thermage, for example) that has caused extensive damage to your dermis, you may not see the results, or may need to add additional procedures like ultrasound, LED, or dermarolling.
So I gently recommend to you if you don't want to give up your current products, to not use 302 now. Or, at the very least email or call the 302 folks and ask what they think. Maybe there are products you can still use, I just don't know. They are so knowleageable and approachable. You may even get to talk to Dr Huber himself. They want you to succeed, so just ask. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:40 pm |
| Kassy, there are non-acid versions of vitamin A and vitamin C. For example, vitamin C in acid form is l-ascorbic, but the MAP and tetra analogs are non-acidic. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:50 pm |
| Boski, what brand of ultrasound do you have/use and where did you get it? Also, what type of LED? My interest in 302 is because I too have some depression-type acne scars, albeit very shallow ones, that I would like to diminish. Whatever else you can tell me about your experience with successfully treating your scarring would be most appreciated. What scar treatments did you try prior to using 302? Thanks! |
|
|
havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:52 pm |
| MBGirl wrote: |
| Kassy, there are non-acid versions of vitamin A and vitamin C. For example, vitamin C in acid form is l-ascorbic, but the MAP and tetra analogs are non-acidic. |
Here are the ingredient listings for 302's C-boost and A-boost for comparison's sake...
C-boost
Ingredients: Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, tetrahexyldecylascorbate, tangerine oil, camphor, lavender oil and mint extract
A-boost
Ingredients: Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, retinyl palmitate, retinol, camphor tangerine and mint extracts |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:18 pm |
MB Girl:
The ultrasound unit I have is this HS3003D:
http://www.skinspatula.com/skinspatula.html
I think the single head HS3003 is just as good for what you're trying to do.
I paid $750 for my unit a year ago, that's a discounted price because I was a forum member of this spabizboard.com at the time.
I have both DPL and Quasar SP. I like the DPL for convenience, the Quasar seems more powerful though.
You really don't want me to list everything I that I have tried in 30 years, it would take up too much space. But I'll try to list the main things.
TCA peels, at the doctors and home ones
collagen fillers
juvederm fillers
glycolic peels
lactic acid
mama lotion
epidermx
cooltouch laser
BHA
fruit enzymes (pumpkin,papaya)
Karin Herzog
Epicuren
TCA Cross (bad mistake, caused more scarring)
needling (another bad mistake which caused more scarring)
Peel-away 2000, I forget the exact name. It was like a Jessner peel
microdermabrasion, diamond and the crystal-based kinds
many other skin care lines I've probably forgotten about.
It's been an expensive journey  |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:21 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
| MBGirl wrote: |
| Kassy, there are non-acid versions of vitamin A and vitamin C. For example, vitamin C in acid form is l-ascorbic, but the MAP and tetra analogs are non-acidic. |
Here are the ingredient listings for 302's C-boost and A-boost for comparison's sake...
C-boost
Ingredients: Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, tetrahexyldecylascorbate, tangerine oil, camphor, lavender oil and mint extract
A-boost
Ingredients: Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, retinyl palmitate, retinol, camphor tangerine and mint extracts |
Hmmm. What is the purpose of the camphor and the essential oils? I'm questioning the whys of the citrus?
ETA: The spf contains Tangerine oil as well. Can someone with good ingredient knowledge explain the purpose of this? |
_________________
Recent Karin Herzog convert. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:31 pm |
Boski - I was particularly interested in the eye treatment. It claims to build up and thicken thin skin in the eye area.
I would like to know your results if you have been using it.
TIA.  |
_________________
Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:53 pm |
| I think the citrus oil and mint may act to promote deeper penetration of the actives, although both can be irritants and photosensitizers, so they are an interesting inclusion for a line so opposed to topical irritants. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:53 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I'm very confused on a couple of points, and hope someone using the line can enlighten me..
From what I've read on the 302 site, acids and exfoliation is a no-no. So what makes their C-Boost non acid? And since vitamin A in all forms causes exfolliation, what makes their A-Boost different..
I'm sure I'm totally missing something obvious, and will feel the fool in short order..
Thanks for you help! |
Kassy, I did notice that they do actually mention USING acids occasionally on the 302 site. Here is a link to:
302 Exfoliator Plus / Vitamin C pigmentation reduction facial (with salicylic acid)
This exfoliating Vitamin C facial is high-value procedure to reduce pigmentation blotches and even skin tone. A series of four treatments spaced two weeks apart will give best results.
http://302skincare.com/pro_proced_vitc_face.html |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:55 pm |
| Boski, did you ever try tretinoin to help fill in your acne scars? Just wondering if tretinoin may have helped, as it is a proven collagen inductor. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:57 pm |
And I am going to ask the question that others *may* be thinking...what would happen *if* I started phasing in some of their products while I used up the tons of stuff I already have stockpiled?
Ex: C Boost
A non acid Vitamin C to reduce inflammation and to build up dermal protein. Clinically tested. Outstanding when combined with other 302 products. Recommended dose schedule: 2 to 3 times per week. A powerful non-irritating C product. Use with 302 Face & Body Bar or a 302 Cleanser to combat tough inflammation and irritation cases. Compatible with acids. Any skin type.
Or 302 Drops
The flagship product. Patented avocado extracts. Combats "gristle" buildup, softens skin. Rapidly builds epidermal protein, builds dermal protein. Clinically tested. Multiple uses. Oustanding for aged, thin depleted skin. Outstanding for acne scar removal, smoothing. Any skin type.
I am just wondering how to take advantage of some of the offerings, without trashing the tons of acid stuff I just bought.  |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:08 pm |
bethany:
Don't you wish you have 10 faces to use up all the skin care products you have now and try 302 ASAP?? That's what I hope now. I told myself early this year that I'm not going to buy anyting new unless I used up 90% of what I have. |
_________________
53, DermaQuest, NCN Products, PMD, Dermarolling |
|
havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:16 pm |
| MBGirl wrote: |
| I think the citrus oil and mint may act to promote deeper penetration of the actives, although both can be irritants and photosensitizers, so they are an interesting inclusion for a line so opposed to topical irritants. |
MB, or anyone else, what about the camphor included in some of the products, i.e. the sunscreen etc.? Seems another interesting inclusion.
302 SPF 30
Active Ingredients: micronized zinc oxide 20%, titanium dioxide 0.75%
Ingredients: Extracts from certified organic plants: german chamomile, rosemary, lemon balm, lavender and green tea; glycerine, organic jojoba oil, phyto-lipids of avocado, mixed silicones, cellulose polymer, polyglucose derived surfactant, camphor and tangerine oil, methylisothiazolinone
302 Drops
Ingredients: Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, avocatin 302 (avogen™), lavender oil, camphor, tangerine and mint extracts
Any thoughts? |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:27 pm |
| MACrisis wrote: |
bethany:
Don't you wish you have 10 faces to use up all the skin care products you have now and try 302 ASAP?? That's what I hope now. I told myself early this year that I'm not going to buy anyting new unless I used up 90% of what I have. |
LOL...you are SOOO right!! And then I tend to buy TONS of what I like if I find it on sale, and inevitably get sucked into somethign else and change my darn mind! (a habit I am working on changing,  ) |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:47 pm |
MB Girl,
Forgot to answer you, I've used Renova and Retin-A in the distant past. Either clogged my pores or too irritating. Didn't seem to do much for scarring while I was on it. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:55 pm |
| boski wrote: |
MB Girl,
Forgot to answer you, I've used Renova and Retin-A in the distant past. Either clogged my pores or too irritating. Didn't seem to do much for scarring while I was on it. |
I find retin-a also gave my face a fakey, waxy sheen that I didn't like at all. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:58 pm |
Tis crystal clear now, thank you all!
bethany, you were reading my mind about the question yet unasked!... |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:04 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
And I am going to ask the question that others *may* be thinking...what would happen *if* I started phasing in some of their products while I used up the tons of stuff I already have stockpiled?
Ex: C Boost
A non acid Vitamin C to reduce inflammation and to build up dermal protein. Clinically tested. Outstanding when combined with other 302 products. Recommended dose schedule: 2 to 3 times per week. A powerful non-irritating C product. Use with 302 Face & Body Bar or a 302 Cleanser to combat tough inflammation and irritation cases. Compatible with acids. Any skin type.
Or 302 Drops
The flagship product. Patented avocado extracts. Combats "gristle" buildup, softens skin. Rapidly builds epidermal protein, builds dermal protein. Clinically tested. Multiple uses. Oustanding for aged, thin depleted skin. Outstanding for acne scar removal, smoothing. Any skin type.
I am just wondering how to take advantage of some of the offerings, without trashing the tons of acid stuff I just bought. |
Bethany (and Kassy), I will tell you my way of thinking on this subject. I too have a large stockpile of products that has grown bigger by the month, especially since I joined EDS. I am not throwing these products away because I am starting 302 of course; I am just putting them aside. If 302 works for me then I can later incorporate the products that are compatible with the 302 philosophy. If 302 doesn't work for me then all my other products will still be there including the acids should I decide I want to use them after all (highly unlikely but not impossible). Right now I feel all my acid products have been doing me more harm than good so using them up just so I can justify the fact that I spent so much money on them is only hurting me. The money is gone whether I use the products or not ("sunk cost" to use an old economics term that has stuck with me). I hope that makes sense.
I do understand the concerns about some Vitamin C products having a limited shelf-life; I didn't have any of the more unstable ones so if you do then that may be more of a factor for you than it was for me. |
_________________
32 years old, combination skin, working on lots of age-related changes (fine lines, dull skin, hyperpigmentation) since I hit the big 3-0. Loving the 302 line. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:22 pm |
| mamawalnut wrote: |
Right now I feel all my acid products have been doing me more harm than good so using them up just so I can justify the fact that I spent so much money on them is only hurting me. The money is gone whether I use the products or not ("sunk cost" to use an old economics term that has stuck with me). I hope that makes sense.
|
Mama, there is always ebay to recoup some of those sunk costs! I have already identified stuff I have never opened that contains HA that I am going to unload there, granted at a fraction of what I originally paid, sigh.
And if you feel that the acid products are doing more harm than good, then it sounds like it is time for you to try something different. I just got started on the copper peptides (and associated acids), so I am going to do at least 6 months there (down from my original designated year, lol) and reassess where my hyperpigmentation is at that point.
And that way I can also watch the results everyone else has on 302, and hopefully read his book when it comes out too. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:59 pm |
| I tried the 302 protein drops way back when they first came out. I really didn't stick with it long enough because the soap and cleanser really dried me out. There is a salon in San Francisco that raves about the line. The only thing that concerns me is the amount of irritants in the products. I know for me the menthol, camphor,peppermint oil, clary sage would have my skin on fire. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:07 pm |
It sounds like you have a good plan Bethany (and more self-restraint than I do as well ). Honestly, I've just gotten fed up with how my skin looks and am ready to try a new approach after a couple years of using strong acids regularly. I would have periods of my skin looking better but they would always be followed by periods of my skin looking worse than when I started. I did like Osmosis but there were a lot of actives in each product (and I used three products twice a day) so I'm wondering if I was still doing too much to my skin. I really have looked better the last few days using just the 302 cleansers than I have in a long time. I am thinking less is more, at least for me, so even if 302 doesn't turn out to be my HG I'm going to try and stick with simple, gentle skin care products.
I will be keeping an eye on this thread right along with you. Good luck with the copper peptides! |
_________________
32 years old, combination skin, working on lots of age-related changes (fine lines, dull skin, hyperpigmentation) since I hit the big 3-0. Loving the 302 line. |
|
|
|
| Thu Apr 25, 2024 1:40 am |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
 |
|
|
