::REVIEW:: 302 Skincare Part 1: Intro to a Non-Acid Regimen
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free skin care · Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:07 pm

Dahli wrote:

sister sweets Thank you sooo much! I too tried emailing the 302 people but no response since Sunday. Hopefully this site has nothing against us Canucks! Laughing

Dahli,
I don't think it has anything to do with your nationality because I couldn't get through either. I got this error msg:

Unable to deliver to <info@302skincare.com> because the user is over their quota.

Their mailbox is full I guess. I sent a note to Dr. Huber to see if something is wrong. As an alternative, you can try asking the estheticians that use and sell 302 in their salons and have websites with contact information. They should all be trained in the product line as well.

free skin care · Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:57 am

I know exactly what you're describing about your actress friend. I can absolutely tell when someone has had peels (TCA, etc.) !

The skin looks smooth and tight, but in the same way that scar tissue looks smooth, tight and somewhat lacking in pigment. It looks like well-healed injury.

Essentially, you ARE burning your skin layers off when you do a peel, albeit it is a controlled burn. The result is smoother, tighter skin, just like a whitish burn mark might be on your arm, but the well-healed burn skin is a tad shiny, and not exactly like healthy, unburned skin might appear. I think it looks terrible, and also very obvious.

I'm wondering if perhaps what Dr. Huber is saying is that these acids---not just peels but also penetrating acid treatments like tretinoin---cause a controlled burn in the deeper layers of skin, subsequently weakening the skin at its deep foundation by thinning it and making it brittle. That would account for the benefits of retin-A, i.e. the smoother skin, the increased collagen (due to the inflammatory response) but it also explains the paler, waxy look to the skin that many retin-a users report.

I think Dr. Huber's philosophy is very sound. I just ordered his products. I was never a big fan of acid exfoliation anyway, but I have been considering using tretinoin again, despite my sensitive skin's repeated red/peeling reaction to even low-dose retin-A.

I think I'll forego the tretinoin and instead use only non-acid products. No more peptides or growth hormones for me, either, as I understand that they also cause inflammation within the skin.

This non-acid approach makes sense to me. I think infrequent, gentle manual exfoliation is acceptable in Dr. Huber's program, and I suspect his exfoliating products are actually manual exfoliators (e.g. vitamin C crystals as as opposed to l-ascorbic solution, perhaps). I'll look into that point, though.

Thank you very much for your posts about the 302 skincare line, Boski! Any idea whn Dr. Huber's book will be available? Is the entire book his work, or is he just writing a chapter or so?

free skin care · Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:52 am

MBGirl wrote:

This non-acid approach makes sense to me. I think infrequent, gentle manual exfoliation is acceptable in Dr. Huber's program, and I suspect his exfoliating products are actually manual exfoliators (e.g. vitamin C crystals as as opposed to l-ascorbic solution, perhaps). I'll look into that point, though.

Thank you very much for your posts about the 302 skincare line, Boski! Any idea whn Dr. Huber's book will be available? Is the entire book his work, or is he just writing a chapter or so?

MBGirl,

You're right about gentle exfoliation being okay, especially if you use manual means with a microfiber cloth, clarisonic, or ultrasound spatula. Your skin is continually renewing itself, but as you age the turnover rate slows down. To help get rid of the dead, dull stuff on the top, use these methods instead of acids and peels. I use clarisonic maybe 2 times a week at the most. I look at my skin and if it looks dull that morning, I use it. If not, I don't bother.

Alas, Dr Huber is a busy man. He trains, he writes, he does R&D. As you could probably tell, he writes everything on the website. Some of the things he says are quite interestingly phrased, but you do take notice. He a very funny guy in reality. He is writing this entire book too. It's a guide for estheticians and he said it would be available off his website. He is also doing research and development for some other pharmaceutical applications right now, so he said not to hold your breath for the book.

I wish you success with 302. Keep us all informed.

free skin care · Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:35 pm

FYI, I heard from Dr. Huber concerning the email problems. Here's his response:

Hi Nancy,

The website host and email host are undergoing a change for the next few days, so it will be hit and miss, probably clear up by Monday, latest. Thanks. We are too far into our beakers most of the time. Alas. R

free skin care · Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:00 pm

I am certainly intrigued by these products. I'm hoping that a bunch of you order the products and try them out so I can stave off my curiosity awhile longer.

free skin care · Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:07 pm

I really like the philosophy and goals of this line. I am thinking - based on what I've been reading is... it's best claim to fame is for those with acne?. I think the basic advice is very sound for all.

If I hadn't just started (and love) Karin Herzog I would be going with this even though my issues are more anti-aging than acne. I am going to be using a MMU with SPF - saw one recommended on the 302 site and emailed about it. And will be cutting back on clarisonic usage to twice a week VS once a day.

I await more reviews from those who use 302. Sis

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:31 am

NO, actually, it isn't best known for treating acne...it is best known for treating acne scars, which are the depressions in skin like chicken pox scars. Those scars are due to damaged skin layers, as are wrinkles.

Wrinkles, ssgging, loss of volume are all due to damaged deep layers of skin (dermis). The 302 line rebuilds tissue (collage, elastin) from the foundation up (as opposed to treating skin issues from the top layer down, as is the case with most skin care lines). So, if anti-aging is your concern, 302 is extremely appropriate.

The difference is that 302 sees many topicals as irritants (peptides, acids, growth hormones) that cause the skin to *look* better by creating irritation which in turn causes an inflammatory response (plumping) which gives the illusion of improved skin (lesser wrinkles, tighter skin, plumper skin, etc).

The problem is that over time, this irritation/inflammatory response cycle damages the deep layers of the skin, causing it to be brittle and thinner. That is why your skin starts looking bad again after you stop using an effective topical.

The ingredients in 302, namely avocado-derived avocatin, rebuild the damaged deep tissues without irritation and the subsequent inflammatory response. Given that avocado itself has been shown to have collagen regenerative/induction properties, I think there is strong merit to the 302 skincare line.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:15 am

maybe EDS would add this to their lineup if enough of us begged hard enough Laughing

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:18 am

I agree, this would be a wonderful line for EDS to carry!!!

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:08 am

Yes, please. Pray

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:09 pm

Let's suggest that EDS stock this line, on the thread for that purpose.

Sounds like excellent skincare. I will definitely give it a go after I have finished my NIA24. Thanks Boski, for a great sharing.

I'm wondering about the face and body bar as a nice facial soap for my son who is starting to get spots and blackheads - he's coming up to age 14 and I suspect his skin situation isnt going to improve on it's own for a good few years..

Do you think it would be suitable, Boski?

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:38 pm

Yes, my son is close to that age - just starting with tiny break outs on the nose and I was wondering the same thing. Might be a good way to go.

Let us know Boski what you think. Thanks.

Sis

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:08 pm

bethany wrote:

And I am going to ask the question that others *may* be thinking...what would happen *if* I started phasing in some of their products while I used up the tons of stuff I already have stockpiled?

Ex: C Boost

A non acid Vitamin C to reduce inflammation and to build up dermal protein. Clinically tested. Outstanding when combined with other 302 products. Recommended dose schedule: 2 to 3 times per week. A powerful non-irritating C product. Use with 302 Face & Body Bar or a 302 Cleanser to combat tough inflammation and irritation cases. Compatible with acids. Any skin type.

Or 302 Drops

The flagship product. Patented avocado extracts. Combats "gristle" buildup, softens skin. Rapidly builds epidermal protein, builds dermal protein. Clinically tested. Multiple uses. Oustanding for aged, thin depleted skin. Outstanding for acne scar removal, smoothing. Any skin type.

I am just wondering how to take advantage of some of the offerings, without trashing the tons of acid stuff I just bought. Confused

This question didn't get addressed in the thread, so I decided to ask it somewhere else. I wrote to 302skincareproducts.com and asked the following:

Quote:

Hi there,

I have been reading about 302 Skincare, and it sounds like an excellent line.

However, I have some other stuff I am trying to finish up before I move exclusively to 302, and wanted to inquire as to whether or not I could start the 302 Drops and the C Boost in the interim.

I am current using Retin A 2x week, and Skin Biology copper peptides 2x a week.

Thanks!

Their reply:

Quote:

HI, 302 WOULD LIKE YOU TO USE 302 AND NOT MIX THE PRODUCTS FOR BEST RESULTS. YOU WILL NOT SEE WHAT WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO SEE MIXING. 302 IN MY OPINION CANNOT BE BEAT BY ANY PRODUCT OUT THERE . THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST. 302 SKIN CARE

Uh...thanks for that.

I have read the website extensively, previous posts on other forums, etc. My takeaway is the philosophy of this company is different..no acids, which is a great concept. (Yet they also promote a facial with salicylic acid on their site?)

And just like almost every company out there, they would love for you to use only their products...you supposedly get better results, potentially have increased product loyalty, and they get more of your money over a longer time period (nothing new in this approach).

They are also limiting their online sales to ensure greater control over the "no other products" message and entire line adoption (there may be other reasons, but I grew up in product marketing, and this is most likely a major factor).

But just as I suspected, I don't see anything that says I could damage my skin by carefully combining select products like the ones I listed above.

So, being the occasional risk taker that I am, I may try out the drops right along with my other products and lactic acids (on alternate days of course).

Or I may not. I just wish we could get some additional insight regarding mixing.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:19 pm

After the above email exchange, I replied to them and asked the following:

Quote:

Thanks for the response.

So let me ask you one more question...will I DAMAGE my skin in some way if I mix products?

Their reply:

Quote:

THAT I DO NOT KNOW, BUT I DO KNOW IT WILL INTERFERE WITH THE RESULTS WE ARE AFTER WITH 302. 302 SKIN CARE

The individual who answered who of my questions (I deleted her name in her replies) describes herself as:

Quote:

Having been in the Skin Care Industry for 23 years as a licensed Esthetecian, I feel I know what works and what doesn't. The absolute find of my career has been 302 Skin Care.

After searching all these years for something just a little bit better, in my professional opinion, 302 is fantastic! It not only promises great results as all skin products do, 302 really delivers. If you are looking for the absolute best in skin care, 302 is definitely the way to go.

OK, she DOESN'T KNOW why you can't mix the products, yet 302 allows her to sell the products? Highly unlikely...I think the marketing approach is most likely the reason mixing is not recommended.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:34 pm

catski wrote:

I'm wondering about the face and body bar as a nice facial soap for my son who is starting to get spots and blackheads - he's coming up to age 14 and I suspect his skin situation isnt going to improve on it's own for a good few years.

Do you think it would be suitable, Boski?

I think the face/body bar would be a good start if he isn't using BP or acids at the moment. If it isn't enough, then consult with the 302 people and see what they suggest. I'd hate to tell you buy other things and not have them work for him. So I'm going to have to defer to the experts.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:39 pm

bethany wrote:

After the above email exchange, I replied to them and asked the following:

Quote:

Thanks for the response.

So let me ask you one more question...will I DAMAGE my skin in some way if I mix products?

Their reply:

Quote:

THAT I DO NOT KNOW, BUT I DO KNOW IT WILL INTERFERE WITH THE RESULTS WE ARE AFTER WITH 302. 302 SKIN CARE

The individual who answered who of my questions (I deleted her name in her replies) describes herself as:

Quote:

Having been in the Skin Care Industry for 23 years as a licensed Esthetecian, I feel I know what works and what doesn't. The absolute find of my career has been 302 Skin Care.

After searching all these years for something just a little bit better, in my professional opinion, 302 is fantastic! It not only promises great results as all skin products do, 302 really delivers. If you are looking for the absolute best in skin care, 302 is definitely the way to go.

OK, she DOESN'T KNOW why you can't mix the products, yet 302 allows her to sell the products? Highly unlikely...I think the marketing approach is most likely the reason mixing is not recommended.

I was considering the eye drops but after looking at the ingredient list I find myself more confused. More of those essential oils and rice peptides. I thought peptides were a no no according to 302 due to the plumping and subsequent sagging. Does anyone know if rice peptides are somehow different from the other peptides? Ingredients and directions copied below.

302 Skincare Eye Firming Serum

Rebuilds thin, crepe paper skin

• immediate plumping and smoothing
• restores elasticity
• organic-based, natural formula

Active ingredients: avocatin 302, rice peptides, fibronectin, urea

Designed for daily use to build up weak, thin eye area tissue. Patented Avocatin 302 is combined with high concentrations of short chain peptides, fibronectins and urea. Not formulated for other face or body areas.

Ingredients: Extracts from certified organic plants: german chamomile, rosemary, lemon balm, lavender and green tea; rice peptides, fibronectin, glycerine, mixed silicones, prepolymer 2, cellulose polymer, urea, vanilla extract, methylisothiazolinone, mint extract

Instructions: Begin with a single application every other day, mornings or evenings, after cleansing. Daily application okay after one week. Dispense from pump to fingertips or, better, onto a cotton swab and apply lightly around eye area. Product will migrate across skin - it is unnecessary and unadvisable to apply close to eyes. Allow to dry with minimal rub-in.

Precautions: Topical use only. Apply to test area and wait 24 hours. If irritation develops, discontinue. Apply away from eyes; product will migrate to desired areas.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:56 pm

I would suspect that copper peptides and rice peptides are different. It doesn't sound like the 302 company is good at giving out explanations on things. Rolling Eyes

I have been considering the eye serum also. And I've also thought of the cleansing bar - buy it for my son and sneak a few tries myself!

I think I'll just go with the KH eye stuff for now. I think if 302 is okay to combine with other lines they should at least let it be known (they don't have to like it but...) - one would think it would only increase their business. Hey we'd all be trying that non-acid C product and how about those drops!!!!

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:57 pm

bethany wrote:

After the above email exchange, I replied to them and asked the following:

Quote:

Thanks for the response.

So let me ask you one more question...will I DAMAGE my skin in some way if I mix products?

Their reply:

Quote:

THAT I DO NOT KNOW, BUT I DO KNOW IT WILL INTERFERE WITH THE RESULTS WE ARE AFTER WITH 302. 302 SKIN CARE

The individual who answered who of my questions (I deleted her name in her replies) describes herself as:

Quote:

Having been in the Skin Care Industry for 23 years as a licensed Esthetecian, I feel I know what works and what doesn't. The absolute find of my career has been 302 Skin Care.

After searching all these years for something just a little bit better, in my professional opinion, 302 is fantastic! It not only promises great results as all skin products do, 302 really delivers. If you are looking for the absolute best in skin care, 302 is definitely the way to go.

OK, she DOESN'T KNOW why you can't mix the products, yet 302 allows her to sell the products? Highly unlikely...I think the marketing approach is most likely the reason mixing is not recommended.

Bethany, I understand your skepticism, and I'm sorry for the response this esthetician gave you. It's not very helpful. Maybe you can ask the company directly. All I can tell you is my experience with the line and you have to decide if it's something you want to try or not, and how you want to use it.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:01 pm

sister sweets wrote:

I would suspect that copper peptides and rice peptides are different. It doesn't sound like the 302 company is good at giving out explanations on things. Rolling Eyes

I have been considering the eye serum also. And I've also thought of the cleansing bar - buy it for my son and sneak a few tries myself!

I think I'll just go with the KH eye stuff for now. I think if 302 is okay to combine with other lines they should at least let it be known (they don't have to like it but...) - one would think it would only increase their business. Hey we'd all be trying that non-acid C product and how about those drops!!!!

I might still try that non-acid C. Either way, I really look forward to Septembergirl's opinion on the eye stuff. We've really put some pressure on that woman. Sad

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:28 pm

I got the eye serum as well - it just arrived yesterday. I used it in the morning for the 1st time - nice, but that is all I can say from the 1st application - no immediate result, but I did not expect any.

Lucy.

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:13 pm

boski wrote:

Bethany, I understand your skepticism, and I'm sorry for the response this esthetician gave you. It's not very helpful. Maybe you can ask the company directly. All I can tell you is my experience with the line and you have to decide if it's something you want to try or not, and how you want to use it.

Boski, I think I will just wait for the book...that should answer the majority of my questions, and allow me to use up what I have at the moment.

That way I will be fully informed AND ready to make a full commitment to the line if I decide to go in that direction.

Now if you could just prod Dr. H on wrapping up that book, it would be greatly appreciated! Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:30 pm

bethany wrote:

boski wrote:

Bethany, I understand your skepticism, and I'm sorry for the response this esthetician gave you. It's not very helpful. Maybe you can ask the company directly. All I can tell you is my experience with the line and you have to decide if it's something you want to try or not, and how you want to use it.

Boski, I think I will just wait for the book...that should answer the majority of my questions, and allow me to use up what I have at the moment.

That way I will be fully informed AND ready to make a full commitment to the line if I decide to go in that direction.

Now if you could just prod Dr. H on wrapping up that book, it would be greatly appreciated! Very Happy

Bethany, I admire your restraint!! That really is the best way to go. Finish what you have, and then decide if you really need 302 or not.

So, I've been asking him for the last 2 years, "when is your book coming out?" It's always the same answer -- He's working on it. He's just got too much stuff on his plate. One of the other reasons that I've stayed with the line so long, in addition to the fact that it works for me, is the dedication and passion this man has for what he does. I have corresponded enough with him over the years to know he is genuinely concerned about helping people get results, not just making money. I have asked him many, many questions about the products and how I can improve my results, and he has always answered me via email or telephone and given me some really helpful advice, without pressuring me to buy more stuff.

BTW, He did say he was editing the manuscript the last time. So cross your fingers, it might be out before the end of the year Wink

.

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:59 am

boski wrote:

catski wrote:

I'm wondering about the face and body bar as a nice facial soap for my son who is starting to get spots and blackheads - he's coming up to age 14 and I suspect his skin situation isnt going to improve on it's own for a good few years.

Do you think it would be suitable, Boski?

I think the face/body bar would be a good start if he isn't using BP or acids at the moment. If it isn't enough, then consult with the 302 people and see what they suggest. I'd hate to tell you buy other things and not have them work for him. So I'm going to have to defer to the experts.

Thanks Boski, you're right, I'll contact them to check what they say. he isnt using anything right now other than seabuckthorn soap.

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:43 am

Hmmm. I'm a medical writer and I write about cosmetic procedures (injectable fillers, usually) as well as drugs. Boski, tell the good doctor that you know an award-winning medical writer who will help him edit his book in exchange for products and consultation!

free skin care · Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:38 am

I also bought the eye serum and am waiting it's arrival. I was looking for a new eye cream anyways and I have to say that I am intrigued and interested in the 302 skincare line. One applicatlion of the serum will not reveal anything. I think it's longterm usage that would reveal results and help us to see whether or not these products are effective. But, it's promising to read that the first application of the eye serum was "nice" since there have been many eye creams I have not used since the first application.

Perhaps we are jumping the gun buy thinking that it is just a marketing ploy when the website says their products should not be used with any others. We haven't yet got a definitive answer as to why they should be used on their own but it doesn't mean that their isn't a very plausable answer. I don't know one way or another what to believe about this but I have purchased a couple of their products and I will just see for myself what the results will be. I have spent so much money on expensive skin care lines and I find the 302 products quite reasonable in price.

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