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brierrose
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Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:20 pm      Reply with quote
Luminosity wrote:
p.s. I am also concerned about the high heat of the QVC Lightstim... It gets darn right HOT. I have to wonder, even if the skin is well moisturized, how that heat, applied directly to the skin, will affect it over time. That thought bothers me a lot, actually...


I have had the same concerns regarding the heat generated from the Lightstim, if it's detrimental to the skin over time.
I think I'll contact Steve next week and see about exchanging it for the older model unless he can assure me it's okay.
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Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:34 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I need to start applying something before the AALS. I have also gotten extremely dried out from it, but I use it on a bare face.


I know that the Baby Q people used to advise applying Hyaluronic Acid pre-treatment - I think it used to be sold with the device but now they have their own dedicated serum. My approach is to apply all my serums, then a moisturising cream then do my LED treatment.

As for the heat drying out the skin with long term use - not sure what to think about this. Other devices I use, such as the STOP and HF also generate heat. In the case of the STOP the heat is supposed to encourage the growth of collagen - but, of course, it works on a different principle to LED. Still, I don't see why heat should be detrimental. When you think about it, you're only heating each section of skin for three minutes out of a total of 24 hours in a day. However, if you find the heat uncomfortable then that's a different matter. I wish I had one of these new models to try, I'd love to see how much hotter it is. The other issue is that I live in an extremely humid climate so that's probably a factor in why my skin never gets dry.

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Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:11 pm      Reply with quote
brierrose wrote:
Luminosity wrote:
p.s. I am also concerned about the high heat of the QVC Lightstim... It gets darn right HOT. I have to wonder, even if the skin is well moisturized, how that heat, applied directly to the skin, will affect it over time. That thought bothers me a lot, actually...


I have had the same concerns regarding the heat generated from the Lightstim, if it's detrimental to the skin over time.
I think I'll contact Steve next week and see about exchanging it for the older model unless he can assure me it's okay.


I hope hope you report back what Steve says... I am very interested in his response (and if he will do an exchange, which I hadn't even thought was possible).

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Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:31 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks Keliu for sharing your thoughts on this.
Hmmm...didn't realize heat could actually encourage collagen growth.
Lately I've just been using the Lightstim 2 min. per area because at 3 min. per area the heat was becoming somewhat uncomfortable and my skin felt a bit sore afterwards. I was going to try slowly working up to 3 min. Now I'm not sure whether I'm just sensitive to the LED lights or if it's the heat.
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Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:40 pm      Reply with quote
Luminosity wrote:
brierrose wrote:
Luminosity wrote:
p.s. I am also concerned about the high heat of the QVC Lightstim... It gets darn right HOT. I have to wonder, even if the skin is well moisturized, how that heat, applied directly to the skin, will affect it over time. That thought bothers me a lot, actually...


I have had the same concerns regarding the heat generated from the Lightstim, if it's detrimental to the skin over time.
I think I'll contact Steve next week and see about exchanging it for the older model unless he can assure me it's okay.



Luminosity, I'll definitely report back after talking with Steve. Probably Monday.

I hope hope you report back what Steve says... I am very interested in his response (and if he will do an exchange, which I hadn't even thought was possible).
Keliu
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Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:40 pm      Reply with quote
brierrose wrote:
Thanks Keliu for sharing your thoughts on this.
Hmmm...didn't realize heat could actually encourage collagen growth.
Lately I've just been using the Lightstim 2 min. per area because at 3 min. per area the heat was becoming somewhat uncomfortable and my skin felt a bit sore afterwards. I was going to try slowly working up to 3 min. Now I'm not sure whether I'm just sensitive to the LED lights or if it's the heat.


It's the heat generated by the STOP device that damages the tissue and causes it to re-generate (or something like that!) - but I'm not saying that that is how the LED works. The LED works in a different manner - so I doubt whether heat is a factor - the heat would not be penetrating down to the dermis, only the LEDs would be.

It does sound as though your skin is overly sensitive to the heat. Have you tried using a good traditional type moisturiser? Or what about Aloe Vera Gel? - I can just picture Kassy rolling her eyes at that suggestion! But nothing ventured, nothing gained!

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Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:43 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu~ I've been using the Collagen Peptide serum from Lightstim or Juice Beauty soothing serum. I'll try a moisturizer over the serum and see how that goes. I'm sure it is sensitivity to the heat but whether I would adjust, I don't know. At 2 min. I'm okay but I would like to be able to use 3 min. per area. That's why I thought the original AALS might be better if it doesn't heat up as much.
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Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:52 pm      Reply with quote
I have both the new and old model of the Lightstim and I don't find the new any warmer.I have never had any problem with drier skin from use and I used to use it without anything serum and could use it on areas way over 3 min. and have no problem....I must be from Mars Laughing

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Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:14 pm      Reply with quote
Gee Toby I wish I had your skin! If there isn't any difference in heat between the two than there's no reason to exchange mine.
Do you think I'll still get results only using 2 min. per area? I am seeing some but so far at two and a half months mostly temporary.
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Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:58 pm      Reply with quote
brierrose wrote:
Gee Toby I wish I had your skin! If there isn't any difference in heat between the two than there's no reason to exchange mine.
Do you think I'll still get results only using 2 min. per area? I am seeing some but so far at two and a half months mostly temporary.

I was told that the thicker skin takes more punch to get a change so there are some positives to reacting quickly to things.

As far as the light, Kassy noticed her new light was warmer so you could have a warmer light. I would call Steve at Lightstim and discuss the matter. You need to be comfortable with your light treatments and I think a call to him or email could give you some direction.

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Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:59 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu, Rileygirl, Luminosity, thanks for your replies about the dryness... I just use the light on bare perfectly clean skin, or in any case I experimented with the green tea for a time... I seem to have got into my big head that applying anything that may get into the way of the light penetrating the skin layers is out of the question!... So, I'll start applying serum or moisturizer, or both before the treatment... I do apply 'after' the treatment but doesn't seem to help the dryness I get.

Marie-Andrée, so good you found a way of getting rid of the stain, interesting about the base and the acid. And which is the 30% glycolic acid you apply once a month?

brierrose, as Keliu has mentioned there are treatments to encourage collagen with heat, like the radio frequency treatments, but I also don't think they work the same way as the led causing heat on the skin. I you google radio frequency face for example there are many pages with info about the treatment for a 'face lift' with heat, it sounds more like how the STOP device works to me, heating the inner dermis.
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:03 am      Reply with quote
Just editing because my message appears twice.
Hugs to everybody! Wink
Keliu
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:21 am      Reply with quote
ATester wrote:
Keliu, Rileygirl, Luminosity, thanks for your replies about the dryness... I just use the light on bare perfectly clean skin, or in any case I experimented with the green tea for a time... I seem to have got into my big head that applying anything that may get into the way of the light penetrating the skin layers is out of the question!...


This is from the Lightstim website on the Frequently Asked Questions page:

Quote:
Can I use skin care products in conjunction with my LightStim?Yes, in fact your results will happen faster and be more dramatic if used with a high quality anti-aging or moisturizing skin care product.

http://www.lightstim.com/faq.html

ATester wrote:
brierrose, as Keliu has mentioned there are treatments to encourage collagen with heat, like the radio frequency treatments, but I also don't think they work the same way as the led causing heat on the skin. I you google radio frequency face for example there are many pages with info about the treatment for a 'face lift' with heat, it sounds more like how the STOP device works to me, heating the inner dermis.


You are correct, RF and LEDs work in a different way. But still, this would make me believe that heat is not necessarilly bad for the skin. On the other hand, it's pointless doing a treatment if it's uncomfortable. I think applying a moisturiser will help. Traditionally, you are supposed to warm skincreams and oils in the palms of your hands before you apply them. This is because warmth aids penetration. That is why moisturisers are best applied directly after washing the face, whilst the skin is still damp and warm. So, therefore, I think that the Lightstim would help with product penetration - but I'm just surmising.

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:35 am      Reply with quote
ATester wrote:
Keliu, Rileygirl, Luminosity, thanks for your replies about the dryness... I just use the light on bare perfectly clean skin, or in any case I experimented with the green tea for a time... I seem to have got into my big head that applying anything that may get into the way of the light penetrating the skin layers is out of the question!... So, I'll start applying serum or moisturizer, or both before the treatment... I do apply 'after' the treatment but doesn't seem to help the dryness I get.



Ditto the thanks! I also had it stuck in my mind to use nothing beforehand. I think I will go ahead and start using the Estee Lauder product at night before the lightstim and see how that goes!
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:50 am      Reply with quote
I have been a little worried about the heat from the AALS. Here are 2 things a friend sent me regarding this issue. What do you think?

http://www.dailyglow.com/blogs/the-skin-doctor/heat-a-new-cause-of-premature-aging

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0781.2003.00054.x/full#f1
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:09 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I have been a little worried about the heat from the AALS. Here are 2 things a friend sent me regarding this issue. What do you think?

http://www.dailyglow.com/blogs/the-skin-doctor/heat-a-new-cause-of-premature-aging

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0781.2003.00054.x/full#f1


I worry it too; apart from AALS, I also steam my face 10 mins a day.
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:31 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I have been a little worried about the heat from the AALS. Here are 2 things a friend sent me regarding this issue. What do you think?

http://www.dailyglow.com/blogs/the-skin-doctor/heat-a-new-cause-of-premature-aging

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0781.2003.00054.x/full#f1


Hi Rileygirl,

I checked out the link to the daily glow. I noticed that the Skin Doctor hasn't taken the time to answer the questions people posted on the website. I question the skin doctor's expertise on this subject. She can't answer the questions because she doesn't know the answer. Thus that's why they were ignored in the first place. Thanks for the posting the links.

I'll continue to use my AALS with not fear of damaging my skin... Smile

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:35 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I have been a little worried about the heat from the AALS. Here are 2 things a friend sent me regarding this issue. What do you think?

http://www.dailyglow.com/blogs/the-skin-doctor/heat-a-new-cause-of-premature-aging

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0781.2003.00054.x/full#f1


Rileygirl, that first article scares me! This does not bode well for the hott(er?) Lightstim. I think that article needs to reach the manufacturer... If I can figure out how to get a hold of him, his response will be crucial to whether I go forward with my QVC unit...

Granted, it is just 3 minutes per section, but cumulatively, this is a lot of heat each week directly in contact with the skin.

(thanks for passing on this info!)

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:29 pm      Reply with quote
i eventually had to return this device (for the second time!) since i did sustain more skin damage even though i was holding it away from my skin and constantly moving it all around my face and neck...

i really so wanted it to work for me since i did notice an even greater 'smoothing' effect when i used it in conjunction w/ my Ageless Secret Gold product...but the downside of the device was too much to warrant the added smoothness..which i can approximate with certain intense massage techniques (especially the one you have posted in a dif thread ATester)...anyway i still believe it is a fabulous product if on has the right skin type..

i am now wondering as i reading the last few entries..if i had used a moisturizer rather than only a serum..it would have worked out for me..but at the time i was thinking that a moisturizer would be too occlusive...if i still had the device i would experiment w/it this way..(but won't be re-ordering it again at this point just for this experiment)

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:24 pm      Reply with quote
I don't believe for a moment that sitting in front of a fire or heater is going to damage the skin. It has also been said that hot showers are not good for the skin - but I'm guilty of having a hot shower every day to wash my hair - have never noticed any adverse effects.

However, I agree that the question on the effects of IR waves is more worrying. LED technology has been around for such a short amount of time that no-one really knows what the long term effects are going to be. However, in the 4-5 years that I've been doing LED treatments, I've definitely not noticed anything detrimental - and I'm at an age when my skin should be collapsing.

I would be very interested in Steve's response to the report though.

To those of you who are worried about the length of time you are exposing your skin to the light - last week I fell asleep during a treatment, the light was on my face for over an hour - but I did not wake up burnt or fried and didn't experience any adverse effects.

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:33 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu....I am embarassed to tell you how many times I have fallen asleep with two Lightstims on my face!! Embarassed

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:03 pm      Reply with quote
I shot an email to Steve at Lightstim about some of the concerns and this is his response.
Quote:
Hi Forum Members,


First off, I'd like to thank all of you for your support over the years!


As to the warmth of the new LightStim for Wrinkles: We use a very sophisticated device for measuring the temperature of our Lights and of the skin after different treatment times. The new LightStim for Wrinkles has the exact same LED's and all electronic parts as the AALS. The only difference is the shape of the plastic handle. It was designed to be more ergonomic for using on oneself, as opposed to the shape of the AALS which was designed more for a professional to use on their clients.


We lowered the plastic lip around the LEDs on the LightStim for Wrinkles just a hair. We did this for 2 reasons: 1) so that less light "leaked" out the sides. This became important as LightStim is now "The" retail LED light (airing on shopping channels and launching in retail stores all over the world) and will now be used by much less educated consumers (than those of you on the forum and the professionals we have sold to for the last 9+ years). Being less educated, they will not necessarily know that LED CANNOT hurt your vision or your eyes in any way. So the extra lip helps keep the light from their eyes. 2) With the exception of a very small percentage of people who have very sensitive skin, our surveys of existing customers continually show they love the warmth of the light and find themselves pushing it harder against the skin to make it warmer. This also has the benefit of increasing local blood circulation, which is the bodies natural mechanism of healing the body and also creates "cell migration", which exposes more cells to the energy of the LED's.


That said, the LightStim for Wrinkles will only heat the skin to one degree higher than the AALS in a 3-5 minute application. And that is ONLY if you press it into the skin. If you follow the instructions, which say to hold it GENTLY touching the skin (gently meaning: just barely touching, or touching but not pressing into the skin), then there will be ZERO increase in skin temperature. So the LightStim for Wrinkles gives you a choice of being able to have a warmer application if you press it into the skin, or the same temperature if you just gentle touch the skin.


To date, of the approximately 22,000 sales of the new lights, we have only had 3 people complain that the temperature bothered them and this was solved with 2 of them by simply using it as instructed, "gently touching the skin". As always, we are always willing to do whatever it takes to make our customers happy. SO, ANY OF YOU WHO HAVE PURCHASED THE LIGHTSTIM FOR WRINKLES AND FEEL THEY WOULD BE HAPPIER WITH THE AALS, PLEASE CALL LIGHTSTIM AND WE WILL GLADLY TRADE YOU HANDLES......... the only caveat being that if you bought the LightStim for Wrinkles from QVC, you obviously would no longer be in possession of it if you want to return it for a refund.


Regarding the IR and warmth links: The warmth issue is hardly worth addressing as this is nothing more than Dr. Jessica Wu's PR agency looking to get her name in print one more time. The article contains only generalities meant to elicit fear and not a single, researchable fact. The only problem with heat and the skin that we are aware of is if the skin is being heated by something containing UV, like the sun.


Additionally, as measured by our equipment in numerous cases, if the LightStim for Wrinkles is held TIGHTLY against the skin for 10+ minutes (not the recommended 3 minutes), the temperature of the skin will only rise to 102 degrees. This is a very minimal temperature and is even 2 degrees less than the MINIMUM temperature that the FDA requires to treat pain. The FDA has set safety standards of heating the skin to a temperature of 104 to 108 degrees in order to treat the human body for pain (as does our Therapy Light which is FDA cleared for pain and at this time can only be purchased by calling LightStim directly).


With regard to the IR issue. Please, will one of you forum members find the very lengthy post I did about the study done in Germany with IR and green tea cream and post it so this forum member can read it. But the short answer to this is: Almost all if the clinical studies on this subject have been financed by a vested interest. Additionally, I cannot find a single study on this subject which has been done using: 1) 830-860nm LEDs, which are the wavelengths typically used by most manufacturers when addressing anti-aging, and 2) a similar application time and power as used by most manufacturers when addressing anti-aging, and 3) a hand-held FDA cleared for consumer use device, and 4) most of which did not end up promoting some skincare cream or product......


As a matter of fact, the most publicized study I have seen used a huge, massively powered, extremely dangerous machine and protocol and promoted green tea cream as a solution.

I hope I have been of some help and I wish all of you smooth, wrinkle free, youthful, radiant skin!!


Steve






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Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:44 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you for posting Steve's reply, Toby. I still love my QVC model and use it daily. I feel bad for the ladies who are experiencing some problems with it.
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:01 pm      Reply with quote
Yes, thanks for posting Steve's reply. I think everyone should rest assured that both the old and new devices are functioning in the same way.

IMO, those of you who are experiencing dryness and are in any way worried about the heat should just try using a good quality moisturiser and see how you go with that. (And by good quality, I don't mean expensive!)

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:40 pm      Reply with quote
I am going to butt in with a comment regarding heat applied to the face. Having training as an esty (during cosmetology school) we applied hot towels during a facial exactly for the reason Keliu mentioned it aids in product penetration!
If doing extractions of blackheads or pimples also a benefit, but regardless many people have none to be extracted. Heat opens the pores and helps topicals penetrate the skin much better.

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