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brierrose
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:20 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
I am going to butt in with a comment regarding heat applied to the face. Having training as an esty (during cosmetology school) we applied hot towels during a facial exactly for the reason Keliu mentioned it aids in product penetration!
If doing extractions of blackheads or pimples also a benefit, but regardless many people have none to be extracted. Heat opens the pores and helps topicals penetrate the skin much better.


I think the concern has been more with the degreeof heat. I know I have read somewhere that heat after a certain degree is detrimental to skin but for the life of me I can't remember what that temp. was.

As for me I'm assured now from Steve's response it is a safe temperature. Also having seen pic's of Toby, Kassy & Keliu with the am't of time they've used the AALS certainly doesn't show any damage. On the contrary, they all have beautiful, youthful skin!

Thanks Toby for posting Steve's reply. I had to decide soon whether to exchange mine. I won't bother now since there is little difference in heat between the two.
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:27 pm      Reply with quote
brierrose,

Yes, I am not saying extreme heat is good! Also I should have mentioned that moist heat and dry heat are going to have very different effects on the skin. The final step in a facial is moisturizer and the "hot" towel application is always done with a wet towel. Smile

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Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:29 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:


IMO, those of you who are experiencing dryness and are in any way worried about the heat should just try using a good quality moisturiser and see how you go with that. (And by good quality, I don't mean expensive!)


I tried the AALS with a moisturizer tonight. I also made sure not to press the light into my skin (thanks for Steve's reply Toby) and just lightly let it touch. This definitely helped, and made a difference in the amount of heat I felt on my skin.
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Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:31 am      Reply with quote
Here is the link to the thread on the German Study discussing the use of green tea with LED treatments which Steve mentioned in his reply:

Study: LED Light And Green Tea Cream Smooth Facial Wrinkles
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35494&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

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Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:40 am      Reply with quote
This was Steve's reponse to the study
Quote:



This is a very interesting article. I will be looking into the green tea extract to see if I can get a sample to test. That said, here is what I have learned from being one of the oldest LED manufacturers in the business. Science is only as good as the devices they are testing. The error lies in putting out findings that are either positive or negative and not clarifying which device and it's specification that they used in a particular test.


For example: Science says you cannot use multiple wavelengths at the same time as they will corrupt each others purity and cancel each other out. They are correct.... but only to a degree. They are correct for other LED companies who have been unable to unravel this mystery. LightStim uses multiple wavelengths in all its devices and we have had 3 major companies try to reverse engineer our lights to uncover our secrets. None have been successful so far. The reason they are interested in our technology is our statistics. For example: we have sold about 10,000 Anti-Aging Lights in the last 9 months or so and we give a 90-day Money Back Guarantee. We have only had 2 Lights returned for "no results or unsatisfactory results". This is pretty much unheard of. Additionally, the degree of improvement they speak of in the article is "supposed" to be obtained in 1/10th the normal time when using just LEDs and no creams or serums. Yet the 8-week clinical trials we performed for the FDA had much more significant results than what they are speaking of. So I am really interested in the green tea extract as maybe we can get even better results.


As to the "high levels of reactive oxygen species as by products": I imagine they are referring to free radicals. Having no UV light, LEDs are very safe, so safe that the FDA is no longer requiring LED manufacturers to do safety testing as there just are no reports of injuries or side effects from using LEDs Light Therapy. That said, Blue light LEDs do create a free radical particle which specifically attacks the P. acnes bacteria which is the cause of acne. It kills that bacteria. The exact wavelength that we use in our Acne Light is 465nm Blue and that is the exact wavelength that has been being used for well over 20 years in hospitals for newborn babies with Jaundice. I'm sure you've seen yourself, or pictures or in movies where they have blue light panels over some newborns in the maturity ward of hospitals.


Additionally, about 3 years ago, studies started to show that the best way to attack Acne was using both Blue and Red LEDs as you get the healing power of Red at the same time. We took that a step further and our Acne Light has Blue, Red and Infrared LEDs. The Red and Infrared together are the classic combination that has been used medically for a variety of treatments for many years. The 2 together rejuvenate cells and heal.


For them to make a statement such as they did is irresponsible as ALL LIGHT is radiation. In science they don't even use the word "light" when speaking of illuminating something, they always say "irradiating" instead. But all radiation is not bad. The sun gives us radiation, and along with it comes vitamin D which we cannot live without. Unfortunately, the sun also gives us UV which has very caustic free radicals and causes cancer. UV is below 400nm. LED light therapy generally is between 405nm and 960nm's. Our lowest nm LED is our Blue which is 465nm.


I hope this helps you in your research and again, please feel free to send any other questions.


Best wishes, Steve Marchese, Lightstim
On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:45 AM

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Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:06 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I have been a little worried about the heat from the AALS. Here are 2 things a friend sent me regarding this issue. What do you think?

http://www.dailyglow.com/blogs/the-skin-doctor/heat-a-new-cause-of-premature-aging

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1600-0781.2003.00054.x/full#f1


Toby wrote:

I shot an email to Steve at Lightstim about some of the concerns and this is his response.

Quote:
Regarding the IR and warmth links: The warmth issue is hardly worth addressing as this is nothing more than Dr. Jessica Wu's PR agency looking to get her name in print one more time. The article contains only generalities meant to elicit fear and not a single, researchable fact. The only problem with heat and the skin that we are aware of is if the skin is being heated by something containing UV, like the sun.

Steve


More information about the condition mentioned by Dr. Wu, with complete references (36 MedLine studies):

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1087535-overview

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Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:41 am      Reply with quote
I found the new handle Lightstim device to be way too hot for my reactive skin (I had a red ring on my face, which dissipated within an hour), and promptly returned it to QVC. The old style handle works beautifully for me and generates very pleasant and comforting heat.

HTH

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Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:48 am      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
More information about the condition mentioned by Dr. Wu, with complete references (36 MedLine studies):

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1087535-overview


So, should we stay away from this range of temp?

......The exposure, which need not be of long duration, results in cutaneous hyperthermia in the range of 43-47°C......
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Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:59 am      Reply with quote
The article Lacy posted mentions sources of heat and IR lights are on that list!

Did you read the following?


Epidermis

Histologically, erythema ab igne is similar to actinic keratoses, with the epidermis showing squamous atypia.[13 ]Early erythema ab igne shows atrophy of the malpighian layer and increased epidermal and upper dermal melanin with dermal vasodilatation.[12 ]Advanced cases show epidermal vacuolation, focal hyperkeratosis, and dyskeratosis.[12 ]Epidermal dysplasia within abnormal elastic tissue may also be seen.[12 ]In early erythema ab igne lesions, epidermal atrophy with loss of the rete ridges is seen. Some patients show focal or confluent hyperkeratosis, dyskeratosis, keratinocyte atypia, and, occasionally, melanocyte atypia.[30 ]Hyperpigmentation, with focal degenerative changes of basal keratinocytes, is seen.[30 ]Similar alterations can be observed in chronic actinic skin damage.[30 ]

Dermis

Melanin incontinence occurs with melanophages present in the upper dermis.[30 ]Collagen degeneration and a relative increase in dermal elastic tissue are seen. In contrast to solar elastosis, this is not basophilic on hematoxylin and eosin–stained specimens.[30 ]Telangiectasis within the papillary dermis and occasional hemosiderin may be seen more commonly on the legs in patients with erythema ab igne.[30 ]An apparent functional activation of melanocytes with numerical increase of dendritic processes is also observed.[30 ]Abundant melanophages and occasional elastic fiber alterations as seen, similar to actinic elastosis. No alterations consistent with preneoplastic skin conditions are observed.[30 ]

Increased elastosis with fragmented collagen fibers are seen.[12 ]Minimal basophilia and homogenization of elastic fibers, which are prominent in solar elastosis, are seen in erythema ab igne.[12 ]Both melanophages and hemosiderin are seen in the dermis.[12 ]Varying degrees of dermal lymphohistiocytic infiltration are present.[12 ]Extravasation of red blood cells in inconsistent.[12 ]Accumulation of dermal elastic tissue can be seen, which is an early sign of both UV radiation- and heat-induced skin damage.[13 ]

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Keliu
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Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:44 pm      Reply with quote
Hot water bottles and electric blankets were also on the list! Don't let's get alarmist.

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Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:12 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Hot water bottles and electric blankets were also on the list! Don't let's get alarmist.


No I didn't intend to, but I can't imagine uncomfortable temperatures being good for the skin. Our pain response is there to tell us when something is causing damage. I was thinking more of those having issues with the new model especially.

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Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:46 am      Reply with quote
Hi...quick update here. I've been using the LightStim Serum the past few weeks but not impressed with it.

I'll go back to the Green Tea serum or may even try Red Tea since there's some buzz about it being more powerful. I found something from Goldfaden called "Pure Power" and has the following ingredients: Distilled Water, Hyaluronic Acid, Red Tea Extract, Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglyverin. Seems safe enough and curious to give it a try.
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:37 am      Reply with quote
Well, after reading thru all the pages of this thread, I'm finally bitten by the AALS bug. I'd like to try it out for myself, but was hoping there might be someone out there who'd like to sell their stim (especially if they are upgrading to the new one). I'm in the south FL area for an exchange or maybe we can make other arrangements -- please PM me for more info.

Tx!

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Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:11 pm      Reply with quote
Many thanks Toby for the posts about Steve's answers!
Jasminerosey, sad at your skin not taking to the 'light', but sooooo glad about your success with massage Very Happy !!

I own the former AALS, not the new one, and I love the gentle heat it provides. I'm now introducing the use of a moisturizer before hand, and liking it... I've actually used the AALS for quite a while- months, noticed more firmness, but the dryness of the skin I could never seem to get over.
As for heat matters, well I tried out the medical degree Indiba gadget at the dermatologist about eight years ago, it works with heating the tissue, and loved the results... the dermatologist that used it moved to another city and I did find some aesthetic centres that used it, but it wasn't the same strength...- the medical one actually had me say 'stop, it is too hot', yet the other was just a pleasant warmth with little results in comparison, nothing to do with the medical grade. The point is that the Indiba works because of elevating the temperature in the inner tissue, thus promoting collagen.
I'm currently checking out to see if I can get a radio frequency treatment which seems to work on the same principle, there also seem to be medical and aesthetic strengths here though.

On the other hand about heat, I love my hot showers, and I love finishing off with cooold water from my shoulders downwards for firmness... and I doubt I'll give up on a weekly facial sauna or hot towels in the evening after cleansing to relax the skin when I'm feeling specially uptight.
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:16 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry, I always seem to have to edit my repeated post, rewrite and resend, curious as when I resend the post changed it doesn't appear twice again!
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:25 pm      Reply with quote
An update on my progress here. I tried using a cream before the Lightstim but I didn't like it compared to just the serum ( my issue wasn't one of dryness anyways but heat sensitivity ) So I made a point of just barely touching my skin with the Stim and didn't keep it stationary for too long but moved it around a little. I must have been holding it too firm. This seems to be working because I'm not experiencing any discomfort now. Using it this way it's a more soothing warmth instead of it heating up too much for me. I also think the Juice Beauty serum I used sometimes was making my skin more reactive. The headaches I had at the beginning was resolved by using the goggles.
Anyways, I'm a happy camper now and hopefully this will be helpful to someone along the way.
I'll give my review after using a bit longer.
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Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:42 pm      Reply with quote
CherrySilver wrote:
Well, after reading thru all the pages of this thread, I'm finally bitten by the AALS bug. I'd like to try it out for myself, but was hoping there might be someone out there who'd like to sell their stim (especially if they are upgrading to the new one). I'm in the south FL area for an exchange or maybe we can make other arrangements -- please PM me for more info.

Tx!

Cherry Silver I hope you can find a used one but I have two and if my house caught on fire and you would see me running out of my house with all my furbabies and both lightstims!!!Hubby can get out himself Laughing Point is I couldn't part with mine!

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Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:00 pm      Reply with quote
ATester wrote:
Many thanks Toby for the posts about Steve's answers!
Jasminerosey, sad at your skin not taking to the 'light', but sooooo glad about your success with massage Very Happy !!

I own the former AALS, not the new one, and I love the gentle heat it provides. I'm now introducing the use of a moisturizer before hand, and liking it... I've actually used the AALS for quite a while- months, noticed more firmness, but the dryness of the skin I could never seem to get over.
As for heat matters, well I tried out the medical degree Indiba gadget at the dermatologist about eight years ago, it works with heating the tissue, and loved the results... the dermatologist that used it moved to another city and I did find some aesthetic centres that used it, but it wasn't the same strength...- the medical one actually had me say 'stop, it is too hot', yet the other was just a pleasant warmth with little results in comparison, nothing to do with the medical grade. The point is that the Indiba works because of elevating the temperature in the inner tissue, thus promoting collagen.
I'm currently checking out to see if I can get a radio frequency treatment which seems to work on the same principle, there also seem to be medical and aesthetic strengths here though.

On the other hand about heat, I love my hot showers, and I love finishing off with cooold water from my shoulders downwards for firmness... and I doubt I'll give up on a weekly facial sauna or hot towels in the evening after cleansing to relax the skin when I'm feeling specially uptight.


The Indiba sounds lovely. Smile
I know there are concerns about the heat of the AALS. I don't have a problem with mine but I was thinking today how much the heat of the sun feels so good sometimes and how some people bake in the heat. Cool Of course with snow in Pennsylvania that sounds mighty good right now.

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Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:29 pm      Reply with quote
I have both the original and the QVC model and had posted that the QVC device ran much much hotter than the original. I had stopped using it during the holidays and resumed it again and noticed that it's not getting as hot as it did originally.


I think that's a good thing, but I wonder why it changed. I didn't travel with it or move the LS, curious why the heat output changed.
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Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:16 pm      Reply with quote
fmvalentina wrote:
I have both the original and the QVC model and had posted that the QVC device ran much much hotter than the original. I had stopped using it during the holidays and resumed it again and noticed that it's not getting as hot as it did originally.


I think that's a good thing, but I wonder why it changed. I didn't travel with it or move the LS, curious why the heat output changed.


Sorry, but I can't see this happening at all. I think the question of the heat is totally subjective.

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Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:32 pm      Reply with quote
Check QVC at 10:00 tonight EST....Steve is on with the Lightstim!!!! Dancing

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Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:45 pm      Reply with quote
WOW thanks Toby and for those without cable like yours truly, you can watch online - but I'm too new and won't allow me to post links Sad

You should call in Toby!!!
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Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:50 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
fmvalentina wrote:
I have both the original and the QVC model and had posted that the QVC device ran much much hotter than the original. I had stopped using it during the holidays and resumed it again and noticed that it's not getting as hot as it did originally.


I think that's a good thing, but I wonder why it changed. I didn't travel with it or move the LS, curious why the heat output changed.


Sorry, but I can't see this happening at all. I think the question of the heat is totally subjective.



Yes, I'm delusional. Give me a break! Heat can be measured and felt it's not subjective like someone's opinon.
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Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:18 pm      Reply with quote
fmvalentina wrote:
Keliu wrote:
fmvalentina wrote:
I have both the original and the QVC model and had posted that the QVC device ran much much hotter than the original. I had stopped using it during the holidays and resumed it again and noticed that it's not getting as hot as it did originally.


I think that's a good thing, but I wonder why it changed. I didn't travel with it or move the LS, curious why the heat output changed.


Sorry, but I can't see this happening at all. I think the question of the heat is totally subjective.


Yes, I'm delusional. Give me a break! Heat can be measured and felt it's not subjective like someone's opinon.


Yes, heat can be measured if you have the correct equipment. So if you believe that the heat of your device has changed you should send it back to Lightstim and have it checked out. No device should have a fluctuating output.

As for the subjectivity on the question of heat output of the new device. Steve from Lightstim has assured everyone that both devices are exactly the same technically, so therefore, they are giving out the same amount of heat.

ETA: By the way, your opinion is subjective because it hasn't been verified by fact.

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Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:36 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
fmvalentina wrote:
Keliu wrote:
fmvalentina wrote:
I have both the original and the QVC model and had posted that the QVC device ran much much hotter than the original. I had stopped using it during the holidays and resumed it again and noticed that it's not getting as hot as it did originally.


I think that's a good thing, but I wonder why it changed. I didn't travel with it or move the LS, curious why the heat output changed.


Sorry, but I can't see this happening at all. I think the question of the heat is totally subjective.


Yes, I'm delusional. Give me a break! Heat can be measured and felt it's not subjective like someone's opinon.


Yes, heat can be measured if you have the correct equipment. So if you believe that the heat of your device has changed you should send it back to Lightstim and have it checked out. No device should have a fluctuating output.

As for the subjectivity on the question of heat output of the new device. Steve from Lightstim has assured everyone that both devices are exactly the same technically, so therefore, they are giving out the same amount of heat.


This newer response from you is more reasonable than telling me it's not happening when I'm the one using the device AND I have an original device to compare it to. When I realized it was happening when I first received it, I started both devices at the same time and it was very apparent that the new one was substantilly hotter than the original. Yes, it might have a fluctuating output and perhaps there's something wrong with my unit, that's why I said I wondered why it changed.

With all due respect to Steve, several people who own both devices have posted that the newer one runs hotter. I would imagine Steve has not tested every device himself so I would say to the best of Steve's knowledge they should both run the same and surely intended them to give out the same amount of heat, but it's hard to ignore something was happening when a few people stated they all noticed the same thing. Saying they ARE giving out the same amount of heat because Steve said they are, or should be, doesn't negate the fact that for several of us who posted there was a noticeable difference.


As for your ETA comment... its fact that I can feel the difference in the heat on my skin when I apply the device to my face or just warmed both units up and left them without using and anyone could feel the heat difference just by touching it. Why not believe what I'm saying instead fighting me about semantics. If you can't believe what I'm saying (and the others who have made the same remarks) then kindly ignore my posts about the subject instead of telling me it's not happening because I didn't measure it with some scientific device and because Steve said it shouldn't be happening when I'm the one with the device in hand. I get it, you want to be right. It's not going to happen because you weren't here with both devices in hand.
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