DIY vitamin C oil?
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free skin care · Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:22 pm

bethany wrote:

It looks like the Calmskin is going to be $42.95...much more affordable than the Lightening Drops!

Now that is a product I would *consider* buying, and because I can never leave well enough alone, would doctor it up a bit.. Think

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:04 am

bethany wrote:

Strength-wise, the 302 C Boost ($38/1oz) is 8% and 302 Lightening ($80/1oz) is 16%.

Calmskin C Boost is 12.5% (no price yet) and is also made by 302 (and contains avocatin too).

I will probably drop down to the Calmskin product after I use up my Lightening Drops.

It was useful to get to know the different percentages in the 302 Skincare vit C products. The Calmskin C Boost sounds interesting. In my experience, it's the l-ascorbic acid that has given my face a healthy skin colour (and some blackheads, too, unfortunately). Have you noticed a more even skin tone and a glowing complexion from using the 302 line?

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:19 am

I may be late in this conversation, but I wanted to mention that the oil soluble Vitamin C mentioned by Dr. Perricone is Vitamin C Ester.

(He makes a special point that it's NOT Ester-C, which is which is something different.)

One of his other biggies is Alpha Lipoic Acid.

Google Vitamin C Ester and you'll find a whole slew of premade creams with those ingredients and the ingredients themselves. I take them as supplements.

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:39 am

Septembergirl wrote:

. Have you noticed a more even skin tone and a glowing complexion from using the 302 line?

Sept, I have some pigmentation issues so I didn't expect to see anything happen too quickly. And 302 is not a quick line - typically 3 months for results.

But I will say that 302 made my skin look and feel very nice for the month that I used it my itself...until I started rolling, and then everything kind of went downhill. Embarassed

But I am now reverting back to just 302 and I think things will calm down again.

Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:39 am

Septembergirl wrote:

rowmare - are you going to follow the recipe that Kassy_A provided in the beginning of this thread? What kind of anhydreous base are you going to use?

The amounts of actives I'm going to use are about half what Kassy provided because I haven't used any vitamin C at all yet. I'll work up to the higher amounts over time.

Also, like Kassy said, ferulic acids sounds like a great additive to the super cream.
Laughing

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:56 pm

I've only just found out that there was such a thing as oil soluble Vitamin C. I'm a huge fan of oils, I slap'em all on my skin - so my question is: why can't you just add the Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to another type of oil such as avocado, pomegranate, rosehip, almond etc. etc.? If you could simple add some oil soluble Vit C to some pomegranate, add some Vit E and maybe some Ferulic Acid, wouldn't that be a good serum?

Also, if oil soluble Vit C is so stable, why are most of the cosmaceutical companies manufacturing unstable Vit C serums? - it doesn't make sense.

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:32 pm

Keliu,

I am sure it has something to do with recent advances in Vit C, or that ascorbic acid has a higher profit margin!

Here are some articles on C:

boski wrote:

Here is a very interesting link about the benefits of tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate over ascorbic C with before/afters. This is not a 302 site.

http://lotioncrafter.com/pdf/BVOSC.Dossier.pdf

boski wrote:

Here is another article about the benefits of Vitamin C. As you read this, you will understand why alot of C serums on the market do not work or irritate. The stability of the formula makes a big difference to its effectiveness. There is much scientific research backing up the collagen synthesis and pigment reducing qualities of C.

http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/vitc.html

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:47 pm

Keliu wrote:

I've only just found out that there was such a thing as oil soluble Vitamin C. I'm a huge fan of oils, I slap'em all on my skin - so my question is: why can't you just add the Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to another type of oil such as avocado, pomegranate, rosehip, almond etc. etc.? If you could simple add some oil soluble Vit C to some pomegranate, add some Vit E and maybe some Ferulic Acid, wouldn't that be a good serum?

Also, if oil soluble Vit C is so stable, why are most of the cosmaceutical companies manufacturing unstable Vit C serums? - it doesn't make sense.

Agreed.

The possibility of adding Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to a carrier oil was exactly what I had in mind when I started this thread. I hope somebody know if that's possible. It would be great to be able to give pure oils a little "ooomph" in one easy step.

I have said before that I am not convinced that the oil-soluble vit C necessarily is better than l-ascorbic acid. There are different views on this subject. I have always heard that l-ascorbic acid is the best version for anti-aging purposes, as long as it hasn't oxidized. As you told, the vast majority of manufacturers make use of l-ascorbic acid. However, there are convincing studies that a combo of water- and oil-soluble vit C might be the very best solution.

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:54 pm

It's definitely possible to but it yourself and just add it to a carrier oil. You can buy it at bulk actives or lotion crafter.

http://www.bulkactives.com/ascorbyltetraisopalmitate.htm

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Tetrahexyldecyl-Ascorbate-pr-16382.html

Septembergirl wrote:

Keliu wrote:

I've only just found out that there was such a thing as oil soluble Vitamin C. I'm a huge fan of oils, I slap'em all on my skin - so my question is: why can't you just add the Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to another type of oil such as avocado, pomegranate, rosehip, almond etc. etc.? If you could simple add some oil soluble Vit C to some pomegranate, add some Vit E and maybe some Ferulic Acid, wouldn't that be a good serum?

Also, if oil soluble Vit C is so stable, why are most of the cosmaceutical companies manufacturing unstable Vit C serums? - it doesn't make sense.

Agreed.

The possibility of adding Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to a carrier oil was exactly what I had in mind when I started this thread. I hope somebody know if that's possible. It would be great to be able to give pure oils a little "ooomph" in one easy step.

I have said before that I am not convinced that the oil-soluble vit C necessarily is better than l-ascorbic acid. There are different views on this subject. I have always heard that l-ascorbic acid is the best version for anti-aging purposes, as long as it hasn't oxidized. As you told, the vast majority of manufacturers make use of l-ascorbic acid. However, there are convincing studies that a combo of water- and oil-soluble vit C might be the very best solution.

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:03 pm

Septembergirl wrote:

However, there are convincing studies that a combo of water- and oil-soluble vit C might be the very best solution.

I saw that one study that Kassy shared...are there any others?

On the Bulk Actives link that Nimue shared they suggested the following:

Quote:

INCI Name: Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate Chem. Name: Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate

Suggested percentage: .5% to 7%
Solubility: excellent solubility in carrier oils, mineral oils, ethanol, silicone. Insoluble in water, propylene glycol, glycerin.

This oil soluble product can easily be added to a base cream or lotion.
It can also be emulsified with Gelmaker PLUS and a 1% HA mixture to create a very light 'serum'.
Combine with L-ascorbic acid in a silicone base for an Anhydrous Vitamin C combo.

http://www.bulkactives.com/ascorbyltetraisopalmitate.htm

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:09 pm

Nimue, thanks for that Lotion Crafter link!

I have never done the DIY thing, but I have been unable to find a lip balm I like and now I know where to buy some applicators (provided that I dare mix one up, lol).

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:22 pm

I've just emailed Lotioncrafter asking if I can add the oil soluble Vit C to Pomegranate oil - and the simple answer came back "Yes". So this is what I'm going to do. Maybe the manufacturers prefer to sell the other kind of Vit C because many people don't like to apply oil to their skin.

I'm going to order the Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate and add it to a fav oil and also add a few drops of Vit E.

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:24 pm

bethany wrote:

Nimue, thanks for that Lotion Crafter link!

I have never done the DIY thing, but I have been unable to find a lip balm I like and now I know where to buy some applicators (provided that I dare mix one up, lol).

Bethany, once you've taken a walk down the DIY road, you'll never go back - it's fun and it's so much cheaper - you can purchase everything you'll ever need from the DIY websites recommended here on EDS - go for it! Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:01 pm

Keliu wrote:

bethany wrote:

Nimue, thanks for that Lotion Crafter link!

I have never done the DIY thing, but I have been unable to find a lip balm I like and now I know where to buy some applicators (provided that I dare mix one up, lol).

Bethany, once you've taken a walk down the DIY road, you'll never go back - it's fun and it's so much cheaper - you can purchase everything you'll ever need from the DIY websites recommended here on EDS - go for it! Very Happy

Keliu, I just got back from a major drugstore here and was looking for a lip balm with no beeswax or things I couldn't pronounce...they had like 30 kinds, but none Shock

that met my criteria, lol. I guess I am destined for DIY!!

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:28 pm

My you guys have been busy all day.. Laughing

I just want to throw a couple of things out there that might help in your quest for the perfect C serum... Once upon a time, I had lots of studies bookmarked, but that computer has bit the dust. For now I can share what I recall from memory, and you can take it or leave it alone. In any case, I hope it helps.

1. L-Ascorbic Acid is the best, and most readily absorbable bar none, for collagen synthesis + UV protection. It must be at a PH of 3.5 or below to penetrate to the deeper layers for collagen synthesis.

2. LAA will have 'some' benefit on it's own, but is best used in a serum that includes Vitamin E. The synergistic effect between these two antioxidants is enormous. If you add vitamin A as well, it's better still.

3. LAA + vitamin E together in a serum will penetrate 'all' parts of the cell. Cells are made up mostly of water, with a lipid barrier.

4. Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate is a lipid, and on it's own in an oil based serum will only reach the lipid part of the cell. (This is my feeling from all I have read). I do believe it will make a superb serum when mixed with LAA in an anhydrous (polysilicone) base.

5. As far as wanting to really learn about Vitamin C + all it's derivatives, do a search on PubMed or any of the Dermatology + Plastic Surgery Journals.....You will never get the whole story from the manufacturers site. The only thing they will tell you is how wonderful their product is, and perhaps why all others don't measure up...I say a big fat phooey to all of them..

When I get ready to make my next serum, I am going to do it like this:

L-Ascorbic Acid 10%
Tetrahexyldecyl 7%
Vitamin E 1%
Retinol 1%

I haven't decided on the base yet, but for sure it will include SKB.

If I come across any good studies, I'll post them here. In the mean time, I hope this helps a little.

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:14 pm

Kassy, you may convert me to a DIY Vit C yet...this time you actually have me thinking about it!!

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:39 pm

bethany wrote:

Kassy, you may convert me to a DIY Vit C yet...this time you actually have me thinking about it!!

Beth you will totally love it!

And you will have all the ammunition you need regarding the "good stuff", once you finish the book.

Pm me anytime, and I'll be glad to help in any way I can.. (The only thing to keep in mind is I'll be away tomorrow through all next week, and don't know for sure if I'll be getting a wireless signal..)

What the hell will I do without my EDS fix everyday... Shock

UGH, perish the thought!

free skin care · Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:34 pm

Just needed to celebrate my 1000th post, on a thread that is close to my heart... Laughing

free skin care · Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:09 am

Congratulations to the new VIP-member!

Nimue wrote:

It's definitely possible to but it yourself and just add it to a carrier oil. You can buy it at bulk actives or lotion crafter.

http://www.bulkactives.com/ascorbyltetraisopalmitate.htm

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Tetrahexyldecyl-Ascorbate-pr-16382.html

Thank you! I am not into DIYing, but I will definitely try to add some tetrahexyldecyl palmitate in jojoba or avocado oil to use in conjunction with dermarolling.

Kassy_A's summary of the benefits of l-ascorbic acid is pretty much in line with what I have been reading on EDS and in different studies throughout the years.

The studies I have seen about oil-soluble forms of vitamin C on Pubmed (posted in other threads on EDS forum), only address the stability of this form, which is far better than the l-ascorbic acid. I have not seen the effects of oil-soluble vitamin C on wrinkles and photodamaged skin being measured in independent studies. The anti-aging properties of l-ascorbic acid are scientifically proven in several studies.

I think the oil-soluble forms have gained popularity lately because it's easier for manufacturers to make stable serums with them.

Studies also demonstrate that the delivery systems in the emulsions play a great role. Multiple phase emulsions like oil-in-water and oil-in-water-in-oil ensure slow and controlled release of the vit C. Ensuring an effective delivery system will be the biggest challenge when DIYing, as far as I can see.

free skin care · Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:26 am

Septembergirl wrote:

Studies also demonstrate that the delivery systems in the emulsions play a great role. Multiple phase emulsions like oil-in-water and oil-in-water-in-oil ensure slow and controlled release of the vit C. Ensuring an effective delivery system will be the biggest challenge when DIYing, as far as I can see.

I hadn't thought about that...very good point!

free skin care · Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:34 am

Well it's true that most studies I've seen are focused on the stability. But I think I have seen somewhere something on the effectiveness of oil soluble vitamin C. I think it's something about it being oil soluble, so it's better able to penetrate the skin.

Here's a study on pubmed on the effectiveness of one of the oil soluble vitamin C derivatives, ascorbyl palmitate, but unfortunately it's not being compared to other vitamin C's.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12837482?ordinalpos=1

free skin care · Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:38 am

Keliu wrote:

I've just emailed Lotioncrafter asking if I can add the oil soluble Vit C to Pomegranate oil - and the simple answer came back "Yes". So this is what I'm going to do. Maybe the manufacturers prefer to sell the other kind of Vit C because many people don't like to apply oil to their skin.

I'm going to order the Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate and add it to a fav oil and also add a few drops of Vit E.

That sounds great!

free skin care · Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:21 am

Silly me! Just earlier in this thread, Boski and Bethany posted the links to some pretty convincing arguments of the superiority of oil over water soluble vitamin C in skin care. It's not the the stability, but it's also the penetration.

free skin care · Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:31 am

Nimue wrote:

Silly me! Just earlier in this thread, Boski and Bethany posted the links to some pretty convincing arguments of the superiority of oil over water soluble vitamin C in skin care. It's not the the stability, but it's also the penetration.

The study that Boski provided a link to is conducted by a commercial company, Barnet Products Corporation. There's a lack of independent studies about the effectiveness of Tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate.

Many people don't tolerate l-ascorbic acid very well. The oil-soluble forms are supposed to be less irritating and might be a good alternative. Smile

free skin care · Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:34 pm

Hi Ladies, I'm bouncing over to this thread from another; I have access to med journals online and Nimue asked if I might be able to contribute to this discussion. While I haven't had a chance to do research yet (and I admittedly am not a DIY gal, but I am newly in love with the idea of Vit C), I did find this blog entry online earlier when I was starting my own research: I can't post the link (newbie!), but the name of the blog is futurederm dot com and the entry is "spotlight-on-vitamin-c."

Maybe you've heard of the blog already; the writer is a pre-med dermatology student who *really* likes her work and blogs based on her textbooks, etc. Just in case you hadn't found her already... If I can find additional specific info through my library research, I'll let you know!

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