ZO skin health from Obagi (a new product line4anti aging
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:31 pm

Any word on if EDS might be carrying ZO soon? Angel

*crossing my fingers*

free skin care · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:32 pm

Here is an interview with Dr. Obagi on the ZO line:

Quote:

Anti-Aging - Dr. Zein Obagi: Creator of ZO Skin Heath and Obagi NuDerm
Interview Dr. Zein Obagi
By Jen Adkins, About.com

If you haven't hear of Dr. Zein Obagi yet, I promise that you'll be seeing a lot of him from here on out. He promises you that he's found the answers to your anti-aging dilemma, and it may sound like nothing you've heard of before. He is the creator of Obagi NuDerm, sold only through professionals, and now the new line of skin care products, ZO Skin Health.

ZO Skin Heath relies on cell turnover, not your typical cleanse, tone and moisturize regime you're currently using. We've all heard of retinols and how fantastic they are when it comes to combating wrinkles and fine lines. ZO Skin Health has the highest over–the–counter concentration of retinol - 10 to 25 times higher than what is commonly found in department store skincare lines.

Dr. Obagi answered a few questions on anti-aging, as well as filled us in on his new line, and what makes it so different.

ZO Skin Health launched recently. Fill us in on what your product line is all about.

After practicing dermatology for 35 years and creating the #1 brand of professional anti-aging skin care products in the world (Obagi NuDerm), I wanted to apply my skin health philosophy to a line of retail products. I was sick and tired of seeing products that don't work with outrageous claims that promise women the moon and deliver nothing!

I thought it was about time we had a skin care line that actually worked. ZO Skin Health is all about waking up the skin through cellular rejuvenation. It takes about 3-4 weeks to see results, but ZO will literally change your skin from the inside out.

What's the problem in the skin care industry today?

The way that certain skin care companies, dermatologists and aestheticians talk about and think about skincare is wrong. Too many companies develop products that treat only the surface of the skin. They're quick hits. Instant gratification. It's like a lollipop, tastes good for a couple of minutes and then it's history. There are no lasting benefits.

At age 30, your skin's cellular function slows. The cells in the dermis get lazy. It's a normal part of the aging process. When the cells are sleeping, you can apply all of the peptides, growth factors, vitamins, anti-oxidants, and molecules you want, but if the cells are sleeping, they can't accept this nourishment. Soon the cells go to sleep entirely, and stop producing collagen and elastin. That's when you start to get wrinkles and laxity and pigmentation problems.

If you truly want to improve your skin, you need to restore the normal function of the cells. You need to go down to the dermis, and activate the cells. Lazy skin cells are like a bunch of lazy soldiers. You need to wake them up, shake them up, and get them to march.

ZO Skin Health products deliver the needed punch by awakening skin cells and restoring their vitality and ability to regenerate and renew themselves. This is accomplished by delivering retinol to the cells. High concentrations of retinol are the best way to keep skin vital, healthy and youthful.

Anti-aging skin care is something that almost anyone over the age of 30 looks for before purchasing new skin care products. How is the industry evolving when it comes to anti-aging, and what do you think the future holds?

Unfortunately, the industry isn't evolving fast enough. They're stuck in their old, familiar ways of doing things. Many of their products are a bunch of smoke and mirrors, and that upsets me.

I believe that someday, in the not too distant future, other companies will subscribe to my philosophy to activate skin cells. They'll all jump on the bandwagon. I believe the core concept in ZO is going to be the turning point in current skin care, and that in the future, the most potent anti-aging effects will be through genetic manipulation and control.

As we all should know, sun protection is the best anti-aging step. Is there another easy way we can fend off time easily at home?

Sun protection will never be perfect and the best solution, because avoiding the sun entirely is impractical. The ZO Oclipse sunscreen (compare prices) won the Cosmetic Innovator of the Year Award because it is functions as both a SPF 30+ sunscreen and a make-up primer. It has this wonderful velvety texture and is unlike any sunscreen you have ever tried.

Also, adding Vitamin C to skin prior to the application of a sunscreen enables the skin to effectively resist harmful UV light.

What is in your skin care drawer? What is your daily regimen?

In the morning:

- ZO Skin Health Offects Hydrating Cleanser
- ZO Skin Health Exfoliating Polish
- ZO Skin Health Ossential Daily Power Defense
- Obagi NuDerm Professional-C Serum
- ZO Skin Health Oclipse SPF 30 or NuDerm Healthy Skin SPF 35

In the evening:

- ZO Skin Health Offects Hydrating Cleanser
- ZO Skin Health Ossential Radical Night Repair or Obagi NuDerm Blender and Tretinoin Cream

What about men? Many times they feel a bit overlooked by skin care companies. Can you give men a bit of advice when looking for a regime that is suited for men? Especially those who want just the basics.

Men need to cleanse, shave, and use an exfoliating polish like the ZO Skin Health Exfoliating Polish, and then vitamin C and alpha and beta hydroxyl acids.

For acne, the ZO Skin Health Offects TE-Pads (compare prices) are great for removing dead skin cells on the surface resulting in clearer skin. Always apply a sunscreen.

What is your top beauty advice for those of us who wishes we could visit you in the office?

Use products that will keep your skin active. Apply sun protection every single day. Know what products are right for your skin type. If you don't know what products are right for your skin, don't use anything. Using nothing is better than using the wrong thing.

http://skincare.about.com/od/insiderinterviews/a/DrZeinObagi.htm

free skin care · Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:44 pm

FYIguy wrote:

We always appreciate the input of EDS members. Too many companies stay huddled in their ivory towers, and listen only to focus groups, when the real inspiration should come from people who actually use the products. So we appreciate your input on new product ideas, and constructive criticism on existing products, and use it advisedly.

Thanks Justin....as long as feedback is considered and not classified as "whims," I am a happy camper. At the end of the day, ZO has to realistically look at the needs vs. the business case, and only fulfill those needs that work within the brand parameters (including profitability). 80% of people being satisfied with the current color selection sounds like the appropriate business choice to me, and I completely understand and respect that position.

But I appreciate you taking the time to actually look into it, as opposed to quickly dismissing it via the misplaced assumption that I was asking for changes to an existing product. (I was actually just asking for an additional color, lol)

Thanks again!

free skin care · Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:48 am

Bethany and FYIGuy, I am very, very fair skinned. And the sunscreen does not change my skin colour at all, it just blends in. I found that quite amazing so I can't understand why it wouldn't suit the majority.

free skin care · Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:22 am

bushy wrote:

Bethany and FYIGuy, I am very, very fair skinned. And the sunscreen does not change my skin colour at all, it just blends in. I found that quite amazing so I can't understand why it wouldn't suit the majority.

Maybe our undertones are different...there are many different verisons of "very fair." But I have asked for opinions from several friends as to my neck match, and it's a no-go.

But fortunately for me, I can use it on my face until my pigmentation is gone (which may never happen, sigh).

free skin care · Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:46 am

Justin, would you mind addressing these comments that were made on another thread? Just an FYI...the poster "NOTCH" is John C Hill from "Never Over the Hill" products. I don't want to put you in a difficult position here between vendors, but I would like to hear both sides.

Here is the link to the entire thread so that you can have the full context:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31227

NOTCH wrote:

It should also be stated that glycerin, in the right loading level in a formula, can draw moisture to the skin. BUT, if it is overloaded (an easy mistake for overzealous formulators), then it can actually draw moisture up and OUT of the skin, making it dryer. So, if "glycerin" is on the label very near the top of the list, or at the top of the list, then it is probably overloaded.

There have been studies on the composition of the fatty acids and esters in the human skin sebum. They are very well defined, and they can be "simulated" by botanical and animal based raw materials in cosmetic lotions and creams. THESE are the ingredients you should look for when hunting for creams and lotions that are "moisturizing" rather than "stripping" to the skin....

If you have any more questions on this subject, don't hesitate to ask me, because this is precisely my field of expertise, and the keystone to all of the cosmetic products that I make.

John

leeleedeedee wrote:

I have just read the ingredient lists on some of the more popular products from two skin care lines that are talked about alot on this forum: Zo Skin Health and Karin Herzog and with both lines "glycerin" is an ingredient at the top of the list in many of their products.

So - what does that mean??? That these products are likely to make your skin drier instead of actually improving it?

That's very confusing and would acutally mean that these products would be a complete waste of money.

NOTCH wrote:

An optimum loading for glycerin in a formula is usually 1% to 3%. This is best for drawing moisture from the atmosphere, to the skin rather than from the skin, to the atmosphere.

Remember, glycerin is a dirt cheap commodity product. It is just pennies per kilogram, so its easy to "overload" in a formula just to save cost. But overloading can draw moisture away from your skin in this case.

If it is in the ingredients list in second, third, or even fourth position, there is a chance it is overloaded in a formula. But, don't worry if it is "near the top" of the list, because that may be the proper loading position.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:08 am

Hi Bethany and leeleedeedee,

Thank you for the questions regarding glycerin used in cosmetic products.

Because I know you want an unbiased answer, I am going to leave my opinions out of this and limit my response to published research.

Glycerin is used in formulations as a humectant – a category of ingredient which aids the skin in retaining moisture. It’s true, some humectants can increase transepidermal water loss (TEWL). Of course, this is why they are almost always combined with occlusive agents which work together with the humectants to enhance epidermal hydration and barrier function, thus negating the potential for increased TEWL.

So, let’s discuss glycerin in particular regarding concentration, hydration, TEWL, and the assertion that over 1-3% “can” result in increased TEWL and decreased hydration. In fact, glycerin concentrations up to 20% have been shown to increase skin hydration. Additionally, the same study showing those results stated that TEWL was not influenced by glycerin. (I've copied the study synopsis below for reference)

In Dr. Howard Maibach's textbook Irritant Dermatitis, the 20% glycerin study was referenced (page 448) in addition to another study performed at 7% which yielded the same results:

"Another humectant, glycerin, has been suggested to influence the crystalline arrangement of the intercellular bilayer lipids. Following a 10-day treatment with 20% glycerin in a placebo controlled study, no change in TEWL was observed. This in accordance with a previous single-blind study on a cream containing 7% glycerin."

As you can see, the studies (at 20% and 7% glycerin) far exceed the 1-3% claim.

Because I like to cite sources, Dr. Maibach is Professor of Dermatology at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) since 1973. He is founder of the Psoriasis Clinic at UCSF and is known worldwide for his expertise in dermatology and dermatological therapy.

For another source check out Paula Bagoun's ingredient dictionary. She comes to the same conclusion about glycerin and says that information to the contrary is outdated.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=24249

So to answer your questions leeleedeedee, it is highly unlikely that these products are making your skin drier. FYI, sometimes there's no correlation between the cost of an ingredient and the value. Just because it's inexpensive doesn't mean it's bad, and just because it's expensive doesn't mean that it's good.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

STUDY
The influence of a cream containing 20% glycerin and its vehicle on skin barrier properties

Authors: Loden, M.; Wessman, W.
Source: International Journal of Cosmetic Science, Volume 23, Number 2, April 2001, pp. 115-119

Synopsis
Glycerin is widely used in cosmetics and well as in pharmaceutical formulations, mainly as humectant. In vitro studies have shown glycerin to prevent crystallization of stratum corneum model lipid mixture at low room humidity. Whether this may affect the skin barrier function during repeated application of glycerin in a cream base to normal skin is not known. Therefore, the influence of a cream containing 20% glycerin was compared with its placebo cream in a bilateral, double-blind study on 17 healthy volunteers. The effect was evaluated as influence on hydration with a corneometer and on skin barrier function. Skin barrier function was assessed as permeability to water with an evaporimeter (transepidermal water loss; TEWL) and as sensitivity to an irritating surfactant by measuring the biological response (measured as TEWL and skin blood flow).

Ten days treatment of normal skin with 20% glycerin significantly increased skin corneometer values, indicating an increased hydration. However, our study failed to show an influence of glycerin on human skin, in terms of TEWL and skin sensitivity to SLS-induced irritation.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:03 am

FYIguy wrote:

So to answer your questions leeleedeedee, it is highly unlikely that these products are making your skin drier. FYI, sometimes there's no correlation between the cost of an ingredient and the value. Just because it's inexpensive doesn't mean it's bad, and just because it's expensive doesn't mean that it's good.

Justin, thanks as always for the very helpful information. Based on everything I have read about Dr. O's concern for the skin barrier I seriously doubted that he would be selling anything that would put our skin at risk. And you just confirmed that. Smile

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:29 am

Seconds on the glycerin, you have to look at the source, if you want to you can find something bad on anything, even water. Sorry though, I don't equate Obagi with good for the skin...

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:03 pm

lilybear wrote:

Seconds on the glycerin, you have to look at the source, if you want to you can find something bad on anything, even water. Sorry though, I don't equate Obagi with good for the skin...

Why do you think Obagi is not good for your skin-Just wondering what has made that decision for you.

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:08 pm

lilybear wrote:

Seconds on the glycerin, you have to look at the source, if you want to you can find something bad on anything, even water. Sorry though, I don't equate Obagi with good for the skin...

Lily, are you referring to Obagi Nu Derm, or the new ZO product line recebtly developed by Dr. O.?

After reading Dr. O's dermatology text book, I was pretty convinced of the benefits of the Nu Derm protocol, even though it is very hard to do. But the ZO line takes the benefits and delivers a maintenance level dosage in a non-irritating manner (thank goodness!)

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:16 pm

I know I reference Dr, Obagi's dermatology textbook a lot, but that is just because I was totally wowed by the info it contained.

I was able to find the text online, though you can only access the first 53 pages. However, even that is enough to get his views on moisturizer * spam alert *, etc. I linked to the Moisturizer * spam alert * section below which is page 23 I think. If you want to read more, I would suggest calling your local library to see they can get it for you.

Obagi Skin Health Restoration and Rejuvenation by By Zein E. Obagi

FYI...This was written for dermatology students, and is neither a sales pitch, nor written for typical consumer reading.

http://books.google.com/books?id=H2fnydnNRiUC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=obagi+moisturizer+* spam alert *&source=web&ots=WHdHk-86Zf&sig=hU1aN-d6NGUSHT5qYqrf2vVNxP4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:29 pm

lilybear wrote:

Sorry though, I don't equate Obagi with good for the skin...

I would also like to hear your thoughts on why you don't "equate Obagi with good for the skin".

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:38 pm

rileygirl wrote:

lilybear wrote:

Sorry though, I don't equate Obagi with good for the skin...

I would also like to hear your thoughts on why you don't "equate Obagi with good for the skin".

Yep...you can't just throw out a comment like that without explaining it. And without the explanation, it just isn't helpful to anyone. Sad

free skin care · Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:59 pm

FYIguy, thank you, thank you many times over for a priceless explanation regarding "glycerin" and it's useage in skin care products.

Since reading this thread I was becoming rather obsessive over "glycerin" since I have extremely dry skin. I checked out all of my current products that I'm using and products I wish to buy in the future (such as ZO skin health) and realized, to my horror, that "glycerin" was always in the top three to four list of ingredients. The thought that I was actually making my skin worse left me feeling quite dismayed and disheartened to say the least.

So, once again FYIguy, thank you for not only explaining this concept in an extremely unbiased manner but also explaining it in a way that completley erased my concerns and helped me to understand this area in a much better way.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:50 am

Hi Leeleedeedee,

You’re welcome. I’m glad I could help. But since you read ingredient lists and base decisions upon them, I wanted to give you a better explanation of the meaning and role of “occlusive agents”.

As I mentioned in the post, it’s important for glycerin to be paired with one or more occlusive agents - they reduce TEWL by creating a hydrophobic barrier over the skin and contributing to the matrix between corneocytes. They have the best effect when applied to slightly dampened skin. Occlusives are also thought to diffuse into the intercellular lipid domains, thus contributing to their efficacy.

Here’s a quick list of common occlusive agents that could help as you’re looking at your products and their ingredient listings. The list is not all inclusive (and possibly ingredients you may not want to see in your products), however you should find some of these ingredients in products containing glycerin or other humectants.

Lanolin Acid
Stearic Acid
Cetyl Alcohol
Lanolin Alcohol
Stearyl Alcohol
Caprylic/capric Triglyceride
Mineral Oil
Paraffin
Petrolatum
Silicone Derivatives (cyclomethicone, dimethicone)
Squalene
Leithin
Propylene Glycol
Cholesterol
Candelilla
Carnauba
Beeswax
Lanolin
Stearyl Stearate

I hope that this hasn’t given you “TMI” but I wanted you to understand how humectants and occlusives work synergistically to help the skin retain moisture - and hopefully it helps explain why manufacturers add ingredients like paraffin, petrolatum, caprylic/capric triglyceride, etc. to some products.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:03 pm

FYIguy....thank's once again. The informtion that you share with us is very, very helpful. It explains alot about a list of ingredients and I think I can safely say that there are many on this forum who wouldn't buy a product unless they first saw the ingredients. It's that important. However, the average person like myself can't understand all there is to know so any kind of clarification and explanation is absolutely more than welcome.

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:28 pm

leeleedeedee wrote:

FYIguy....thank's once again. The informtion that you share with us is very, very helpful.

I agree, and wanted to thank you as well for all the info you have provided us. I certainly hope you continue to do so!

free skin care · Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:31 pm

rileygirl wrote:

leeleedeedee wrote:

FYIguy....thank's once again. The informtion that you share with us is very, very helpful.

I agree, and wanted to thank you as well for all the info you have provided us. I certainly hope you continue to do so!

Ditto!! We very much appreciate it!!

free skin care · Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:12 am

Justin, when you get some time (!) could you please address the issue of broken capillaries. Is there anything topical one could use that would improve them at all, or would a medical procedure be the only thing that would help? Thanks in advance!

free skin care · Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:18 pm

Justin, I am going to add to your list and ask the following:

Is it ok if I layer my Allergan Vivite' Vibrance (for hyperpigmentation) under my ZO Daily Power Defense?

Or would I be better off using it at night under my ZO Radical Night Repair and Growth Factor Serum?

Thanks!!

Quote:

Key Ingredients:
Superoxide dismutase: enzyme that destroys superoxide free radicals
Methyl dihydroxybenzoate: skin lightener that reduces pigmentation
Licorice root: anti-inflammatory depigmentation agent
Green Tea: free-radical blocker, helps block UV radiation
Olive leaf extract: power protection against environmental stressors
Vitamic C: clenches free radicals and regenerates vitamin E
Vitamin E: scavenges lipid free radicals, protecting cell membrane from destruction
Other key ingredients: Mulberry extract, grape extract, lycopene, retinol and soy isoflavones.

Ingredients
Purified Water, Ammonium Glycolate And Glycolic Acid, Glycerin, Sucrose Cocoate, Sorbitan Stearate, Ceresin, Steareth-2, Isohexadecane, Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Butylene Glycol, Methyl Dihydroxybenzoate, Glycyrrhiza Glabra (Licorice) Root Extract, Morus Nigra (Mulberry) Fruit Extract, Camellia Oleifera (Japanese Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Grape (Vitis Vinifera) Extract, Tocopherol, Bisabolol, Dimethicone, Retinol, Polysorbate 20, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Xanthan Gum, Diazolidinyl Urea, Feoniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Seed Extract, Lycopene, Soy Isoflavones, Squalane, Methylparaben, Disodium EDTA, BHT, Propylparaben, Olea Europaea (Olive) Leaf Extract, Allantoin Glycyrrhetinic Acid, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Superoxide Dismutase, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate.

free skin care · Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:30 am

Wanted to share this with everyone. I have the ZO Oraser microderm hand renewal, which is an exfoliator for the hands. I find this a bit rough for my hands, so I have not been using it regularly. Since being back on Nu Derm, my lips are so very dry and crusty. So, I decided to use the hand scrub on my lips. This worked great! My lips were so soft and silky afterwards, and all the dead skin was off! I will definitely continue to do this, as I love how soft and moisturized my lips are feeling now!

free skin care · Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:49 am

rileygirl wrote:

Justin, when you get some time (!) could you please address the issue of broken capillaries. Is there anything topical one could use that would improve them at all, or would a medical procedure be the only thing that would help? Thanks in advance!

Hi Rileygirl,

As always, thanks for the question.

Broken capillaries are tough... the best treatment is still a non-ablative laser or intense pulsed light treatment at a physician's office. Topically, there has been some evidence that Vitamin K1 has shown positive results, but you need to be careful as some people are very allergic to vitamin K. If you want to try a cream, I would suggest looking for a cream created by a friend of mine in the industry, Dr. Melvin Elson. He is a renowned dermatologist and the patent holder / developer of the vitamin K technology.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

free skin care · Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:58 am

bethany wrote:

Justin, I am going to add to your list and ask the following:

Is it ok if I layer my Allergan Vivite' Vibrance (for hyperpigmentation) under my ZO Daily Power Defense?

Or would I be better off using it at night under my ZO Radical Night Repair and Growth Factor Serum?

Thanks!!

Hi Bethany,

Because the Allergan Vivite Vibrance you mentioned has retinol in it, I would recommend using it at night with the ZO Radical Night Repair and ZO Growth Factor Serum. Without having the quantitative formula, I can’t tell from the ingredient list how the retinol in Vivite Vibrance is formulated, so if it is used in the day, it could photodegrade and limit the product's efficacy (I’m assuming that the activity level of the retinol is important to the efficacy of the product).

So, the safest bet for optimal results is to use it at night.

I hope this helps,

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

free skin care · Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:29 am

FYIguy wrote:

Hi Rileygirl,

As always, thanks for the question.

Broken capillaries are tough... the best treatment is still a non-ablative laser or intense pulsed light treatment at a physician's office. Topically, there has been some evidence that Vitamin K1 has shown positive results, but you need to be careful as some people are very allergic to vitamin K. If you want to try a cream, I would suggest looking for a cream created by a friend of mine in the industry, Dr. Melvin Elson. He is a renowned dermatologist and the patent holder / developer of the vitamin K technology.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

Thanks so much, Justin. I appreciate your help! Can you give the name of the cream developed by Dr. Melvin Elson?

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