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ZO skin health from Obagi (a new product line4anti aging

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red head
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:24 am      Reply with quote
So far Iam loving the Daily Power Defense and the Overnight Recovery Cream. The Daily Power Defense is light and sinks right in I have VERY sensative skin and it does not burn etc at all but I can feel my face and it still looks smooth. i use this before my Obagi Healthy Skin SS. At night I have been using the OVernight Recovery Cream and my face is glowing and soft in the am. I will be using this every other or 3rd night in addition to the Retional/Blender combo that Donna advised. I laso plan on getting the Essential Growth Factor to use at night that 1st then the Recovery Cream. I have stopped using the Clear and Exforderm and these products should keep all my NuDerm results great-Dale

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:40 am      Reply with quote
I've been using Obagi for over 5 years and it seems no irritation, except nice skin... Have to maintain it though....

vassbeaute wrote:
hi PINKLYFE,

I was wondering how good the obagi nuderm line was. i had a look at EDS and it has high strength hydroquinone which iver heard is an irritant. whats your view as im interested
bethany
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:07 am      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
I laso plan on getting the Essential Growth Factor to use at night that 1st then the Recovery Cream. I have stopped using the Clear and Exforderm and these products should keep all my NuDerm results great-Dale


I have the Ossential Growth Factor Serum (it comes in the Jumpstart kit)...here is a mini review since I have been using it for a couple of days.

Ossential Growth Factor Serum
20 mL / 0.66 Fl. Oz. (full size is 30 mL / 1.0 Fl. Oz)
Apply every morning and evening.

- Advanced lipopeptides boost and support collagen to help firm and tone.
- Retinol, the most effective anti-aging ingredient, reduces pigmentation and the appearance of lines and wrinkles.
- Anti-aging Vitamins C and B stimulate cell renewal to keep skin radiant and younger-looking.

This is in the big top pump, which I am now REALLY liking...it is super easy to use, and very hygienic.

Dr. O's plan has Cleanse, Correct, Stimulate, and Protect components - this is the Stimulate piece, so it looks to be a key product for consideration within the line.

The product is a lightweight gel with very little scent (good news for me)...it absorbs very quickly, and I could see this working well in the morning under makeup.

However, I am not sure if this is supposed to be used once or twice a day...the bottle says in the PM, but the website says to use every AM/PM???

I am currently only using it once a day while I ramp up on the products since they seem to be quite powerful.

One thing I do want to add about the ZO products that I have tried thus far...they are very lightweight and NOT goopy. There seem to be a lot of steps in the complete process, but you don't feel like you have a ton of stuff piled on all over your face (thank goodness).

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bethany
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:52 pm      Reply with quote
Ok...that last post must be in invisible ink, because I can't see anything! Confused

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FYIguy
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:55 pm      Reply with quote
Hmm... I don't know what happened. My computer has been acting up all day.

Give me a couple minutes and I'll re-post what I wrote.
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:13 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
Hmm... I don't know what happened. My computer has been acting up all day.

Give me a couple minutes and I'll re-post what I wrote.


Justin, while we have you here, can I ask another question?

In the article that I previously quoted in this thread, Dr. O said the following:

Quote:
"In the last 60 years, the skin-care industry has focused on three things -- cleansing, moisturizing and protecting the skin from sun. More recently, they've added anti-aging. Scientifically speaking, if there have been improvements, it's been insignificant.

"I could have started a consumer line 15 years ago, but there was not enough technology out there to help us. Nothing would be effective; nothing was going to work and I could not work on something I don't believe in."

http://starbulletin.com/2008/08/21/features/story02.html


I know that Dr. O is very focused on retinol, but he is also using some ingredients and approaches that we have have only seen with Remergent products (like DNA repair).

I have read the website, but anyone who knows me will tell you that I am all about the DETAILS...and I'm not the only one! Very Happy While the brand drives a portion of the price point, I am assuming there are additional reasons why it is not a "budget-focused" product line.

Can you please fill us in as to what Dr. O considers to be this new "technology," and how/why this line can provide better results than other lines?

Thanks, and sorry for putting you on the spot!

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FYIguy
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:52 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Bethany,

As for the ZO Skin Health Ossential Growth Factor Serum, admittedly there is some inconsistency between our online and offline materials. Part of the reason is that it depends on if the user is applying a retinol / retinoid product (ZO Ossential Radical Night Repair, Retin – A, Renova).

Let me address the easiest recommendation first: if no retinol / retinoid product is being used, the Ossential Growth Factor Serum should be used daily in the PM for maximum benefit.

Now it gets a little more complicated. There are synergistic properties between retinoids and growth factors, so when the two are used together in the evening, it improves penetration. In the morning, the growth factor serum enhances tolerance to the retinoid therapy.
•If the retinol / retinoid is tolerated for every night use, the Growth Factor Serum is best used both AM and PM as described above.

•If the retinol / retinoid is not used every night, there are a few options: (and depend on what other products are used in the regimen)

oAlternate the Growth Factor Serum and the retinoid/retinol

oUse the Growth Factor Serum in the AM daily and the PM on the non retinol/retinoid days


I hope this helps.

If you’d like to PM me your AM / PM regimen I can help with a recommendation.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President - Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.
FYIguy
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:07 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Bethany,

The technology question is a bit more involved than the usage question on Ossential Growth Factor Serum. Let me work on it and get it posted some time tomorrow or over the weekend at the latest.

Justin
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:21 pm      Reply with quote
Hi FYIguy,

I have a question, what percent of retinol is in the Daily Power Defense, and how does the product increase epidermal thickness as stated on your website? Thanks
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:04 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy, is there a wait period after one applies the Retin A/Radical night repair and the growth factor?
bethany
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:05 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
Hi Bethany,

If you’d like to PM me your AM / PM regimen I can help with a recommendation.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President - Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.


Thanks...I appreciate the offer!

And no problem on waiting for the technology answer...if you are torn between providing too much vs. too little info, we would all prefer too much! Very Happy

But I totally understand that it takes up your time, so don't feel that you have to address everything all at once...we'll take whatever info you can share as you have available time.

BTW, thank you for making time to answer our questions.

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Kareberry*
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:49 pm      Reply with quote
Is this line for hyperpigmentation or is it just anti-aging? I seem to recall someone saying that their freckles went away using this..not sure. Almost all of these products seem retinol based? Plz correct me if I'm wrong?

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Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:41 am      Reply with quote
Hi, Kareberry: When Dr. Obagi developed the line, his common denominator was to restore skin health that has been compromised due to age, UV exposure, etc. He defines healthy skin as smooth, even-toned, free of disease, firm, and tolerant, and accomplishes this by the use of retinol along with proprietary peptides, anti-oxidants, growth factors, and other active ingredients. I didn't know how to distill all of that down to just a couple of words (and healthy skin means different things to different people), so used the words "anti-aging" on the front of the packages, which may be an oversimplification.

Whereas lots of products have retinol, and it's the most effective proven anti-aging topical ingredient, what's interesting/vital about the ZO line is the way in which the products deliver high concentrations of retinol while reducing irritation and remaining stable (Ossential Radical Night Repair has the highest concentration--1%). In some products, the retinol is at much lower concentrations, because (a) the skin can't take mega-doses--at least with retinol, you really can have too much of a good thing, or (b) because the retinol acts as a catalyst for other active ingredients.

By his very nature, he "pushes the envelope" in the development of results-oriented products. He's different, his products are different, and he likes it that way.

"Skin Health" was also the premise for his original NuDerm line, which is a combination of anti-aging and lightening products.

As for hyperpigmentation, some ZO products contain OTC, non-HQ lighteners, but none are as effective as hydroquinone. No ZO product is positioned as a lightener.

As for the "no-freckles", many people say that with consistent use of the Oclipse sunscreen, wrinkles diminish or disappear, but that is due to protection from UV rays. I don't think it's any more effective than other sunscreens (an SPF 30 is an SPF 30), but people like the silicone-based, tinted product, so they're more inclined to use it daily.

Hope that helps. Thanks.

Donna Queen
Kareberry* wrote:
Is this line for hyperpigmentation or is it just anti-aging? I seem to recall someone saying that their freckles went away using this..not sure. Almost all of these products seem retinol based? Plz correct me if I'm wrong?

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Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:44 am      Reply with quote
Kareberry* wrote:
Is this line for hyperpigmentation or is it just anti-aging? I seem to recall someone saying that their freckles went away using this..not sure. Almost all of these products seem retinol based? Plz correct me if I'm wrong?


Hi, Kareberry. I think ZOskinhealth answered your question really well. I did want to throw in my 2 cents for whatever it is worth. I think unless you have very light freckles that would normally go away by just using sunscreen (and I don't have those kind of freckles) that the ZO line may fade very light freckles. Otherwise, if you have "resistant" freckles (my own word) like I do, then I don't believe there is anything in the ZO that will really fade your freckles.
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Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:22 am      Reply with quote
Well I just had my appt w/my Derm for NuDerm Maintennance. I brought my 2 products and we went onto the web site. She knows not to argue with me. Well she was very impressed with my results and the line. It won't be carried in RX's offices but we came to a understanding that I will use the NuDerm and ZO as part of my maintenance. I love the NuDerm Cleanser/Toner/SS. No Exforderm or Clear will be used. AM I will use the ZO Daily Power Defense Pm Tues-Thurs-Sat Retional/Blender Mon/Wed/Fri Overnight Recovery Cream and when I buy the Growth Factor Serum that will go on 1st then the cream. So far so good I do feel a slight tingle during the day from the Daily Power Defense but I think that my skin needs to get used to it. So this is a GREAT post and thanks to everyone for all the PM's and posts. Dale Very Happy

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Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:03 pm      Reply with quote
zoskinhealth wrote:
As for the "no-freckles", many people say that with consistent use of the Oclipse sunscreen, wrinkles diminish or disappear, but that is due to protection from UV rays. I don't think it's any more effective than other sunscreens (an SPF 30 is an SPF 30), but people like the silicone-based, tinted product, so they're more inclined to use it daily.


I used the Oclipse sunscreen today for the first time...it is VERY nice feeling (actually even better than the Remergent SPF 30). (The ZO products just seem to feel much lighter than Remergent for some reason.)

I put it on about 4 hours ago, and still have a very matt finish...it actually feels even better than having nothing on. Shock

Regarding the tint...I was a little concerned because I am fairly pale and I was wondering if the tint would be too dark...it is not. It actually blended right in and was pretty close to invisible.

The other interesting thing is that the tint seems to have both pink and yellow in it, so it would should work with virtually any skin tone.

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Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:24 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
Hi FYIguy,

I have a question, what percent of retinol is in the Daily Power Defense, and how does the product increase epidermal thickness as stated on your website? Thanks



While we’d like to tell you what the concentration of retinol is in Daily Power Defense (or any of our other products)—we’d be telling our competitors at the same time. Quite honestly, right now some of our “best” customers are our competitors, who are studying the products in their labs and research departments. It’s immensely frustrating to see them trying to replicate the formulas. That wasn’t our intent.

And I know what your real question is—how does Daily Power Defense increase epidermal thickness? It’s not just the concentration of retinol that makes the product effective. If we “loaded” every one of our products with retinol, your skin would over-dose, and you’d experience an adverse reaction. So the retinol in Daily Power Defense does a couple of things: (1) is a catalyst for the DNA repair mechanisms, and (2) incorporates a liposomal delivery system which enhances retinol penetration as well as makes it less photodegradable (so it can be used in the AM).

Retinol is well known to increase dermal thickness, but Matrixyl 3000 also increases skin thickness (both epidermal and dermal) as well as anchors new cells for epidermal reconstruction. This combination of the retinol and Matrixyl 3000 is the main driver that increases dermal thickness.


Justin Morgan
VP – Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.
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Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:27 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
FYIguy, is there a wait period after one applies the Retin A/Radical night repair and the growth factor?


Hi Rileygirl,

If you're following our usage instructions with the Radical Night Repair / Retin A (massage in for up to one minute) there is no wait period required.

Hope this helps.


Justin Morgan
VP - Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.
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Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:24 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you, FYIguy!
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Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:50 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you FYIguy, it's nice having you around!
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:10 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
Hi Bethany,

The technology question is a bit more involved than the usage question on Ossential Growth Factor Serum. Let me work on it and get it posted some time tomorrow or over the weekend at the latest.

Justin


Just a reminder to please not forget about this! Very Happy

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:16 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:

There are synergistic properties between retinoids and growth factors, so when the two are used together in the evening, it improves penetration. In the morning, the growth factor serum enhances tolerance to the retinoid therapy.
•If the retinol / retinoid is tolerated for every night use, the Growth Factor Serum is best used both AM and PM as described above.



Despite the strength of the ZO products, I have worked up to using the Radical Night Repair every night now. (this is a shocker, since I often have retinoid reactions)

I am also using the Growth Factor Serum twice a day, and it is obviously helping me tolerate the retinol as FYIguy mentioned above. I have had no irritation, and no flaking...this is definitely better than the Retin-A experience! Very Happy

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:37 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
FYIguy wrote:
Hi Bethany,

The technology question is a bit more involved than the usage question on Ossential Growth Factor Serum. Let me work on it and get it posted some time tomorrow or over the weekend at the latest.

Justin


Just a reminder to please not forget about this! Very Happy


Hi Bethany,

There are really two areas where the technology has changed skincare as we know it: delivery/stability systems and ingredients. It’s the combination of these two advancements that has allowed Dr. Obagi to create a retail line with efficacy that sets new industry standards. Quite frankly, we have a bit of an advantage because ZO Skin Health was developed in the past year. It’s next-to-impossible for older brands to reinvent and reformulate the products to keep pace with changing technologies. All of the following are incorporated in the ZO product line.

Delivery/Stability Systems:

Believe it or not, the airless pump was the most important stability advancement for skin care (that’s the jar with the disk that you compress—the one that you like so much). Exposure to air (also called oxidation) is the primary reason why many active ingredients destabilize (it’s the exposure to air that causes hydroquinone to turn brown, retinol and ascorbic acid to degrade, etc. ) Because of this, many manufacturers have been forced to use either very unappealing packaging (metal Glaminate tubes), or use clinically insignificant concentrations of active ingredients, or avoid them altogether. The airless pump (used for our Oclipse sunscreen, Ommerse and Ossential products) totally eliminates that problem.

The other big improvement is polymeric entrapment systems and silicone elastomer systems (both anhydrous and emulsified), which enable the use of higher concentrations of cosmetically active ingredients like retinol. Advances in liposomal and nanosomal delivery systems led the way to greater efficacy by ensuring intact penetration of delicate ingredients (peptides, enzymes, etc.). Micronized dispersions of mineral sun protection ingredients paved the way for higher SPF in cosmetically elegant formulations.

Ingredients:

As you said, retinol is very important, and its availability to use in higher concentrations was the turning point that is taking efficacy to the next level. Advancements in science brought us synthesized growth factors and peptides versus the ones derived from human tissue. Enzymes, co-enzymes, and ceramides brought us DNA repair, increased cell energy, and aid in maintaining barrier integrity.

As for how ZO is using these technologies to deliver efficacy, let’s look at the Ossential Radical Night Repair as an example:

Radical Night Repair: 1% retinol entrapped in a polymeric delivery system incorporated into an anhydrous silicone elastomer system. We all know Vitamin A works well with Vitamin C, but the two ingredients generally don’t behave well around each other at active levels. Using entrapment technology and an anhydrous system, ZO was able to include a strong stable dose of Vitamin C in the product at the same time as 1% retinol. In the past, while both retinol and vitamin C have appeared in the same formulas, one has always been at the higher concentration and the other at a very, very low concentration. Lastly, because of the anhydrous structure of the formulation, no preservatives are utilized in the formula.

At the risk of being too technical, it’s great to have the opportunity to explain this — because it truly is what makes Dr. Obagi’s new products so exciting and so effective.

Please let me know what other ZO products you would like information on with regard to technology and ingredients.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:10 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
At the risk of being too technical, it’s great to have the opportunity to explain this — because it truly is what makes Dr. Obagi’s new products so exciting and so effective.

Please let me know what other ZO products you would like information on with regard to technology and ingredients.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin


Justin, this was an AWESOME answer, and exactly the kind of info we want to know. Very Happy

I would love to know the details on 2 more products when you have the time....the Growth Factor Serum (which I have and like) and the Daily Power Defense (which I dont have, though I was using the Remergent DNA product).

BTW, we very much appreciate you taking the time to share info with us....we're not used to having such informed resources!

Thanks!

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Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:11 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy, could you please give the same technology/ingredient info for the Daily Power Defense?
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