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zoskinhealth
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:24 pm      Reply with quote
RuthMarion wrote:
I am trying both the hand kit & the facial kit & really like both. There hasn't been time enough to see any dramatic difference (those days may be over for me anyway! Sad - plus my skin is in good condition to start with). Anyway, even if it was awesome, I had to pay UPS just under $200cdn for brokerage & taxes. That's on top of the retail cost of the products. Until someone can retail this in Canada (Holt's or even better EDS) I will most certainly not bother to repurchase.
BTW nordstrom.com delivers only within the US.


RuthMarion--I agree, those kinds of fees are HORRIBLE! So we checked them out to determine what the problem is. In this case, we can't blame UPS or USPS--it's only their job to collect it at the border; they profit from only their standard shipping costs. ZO doesn't charge sales tax on orders shipped to Canada or assess handling fees, and in fact we never see those miscellaneous import charges. So we can blame it on governmental taxes and brokers fees. That's also why our products cost so much more in certain European and Asian countries, because retailers have to try to recoup those costs.

Here's what we found:

Our products are made in the USA, so duty should NOT have been assessed.

The GST in Canada is 5%, on top of that, there's a provincial sales tax, which can be as high as an additional 8%.


So on a Jumpstart Kit ($250)--depending on the province, there would be about:
Tax $ 18.15
Shipping $18.00
Brokerage fee $44.37

Obviously the brokers are profiting nicely. On top of that, there's a currency exchange factor (currently about 7% premium on the US$).

Sorry, these factors are out of our control. Other than resenting taxes and fees, I wish that we had a better solution. If you can review your invoices, and we can check it out from our end, please let us know. Thanks.

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marina
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:27 pm      Reply with quote
USPS doesn't handle the brokerage fees for you (UPS also charges a handling fee). In the case of USPS, you may pay customs fees (and GST) but it's nothing compared to what UPS charges..believe me, I know. I once had to reject a UPS package. The UPS guy even told me he dosen't understand why retailers use them.
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:51 pm      Reply with quote
marina wrote:
USPS doesn't handle the brokerage fees for you (UPS also charges a handling fee). In the case of USPS, you may pay customs fees (and GST) but it's nothing compared to what UPS charges..believe me, I know. I once had to reject a UPS package. The UPS guy even told me he dosen't understand why retailers use them.


Yes, for cross border purchases, USPS/Canada Post is *almost always* better as the brokerage/handling is a flat $5 for regular mail and $8 for priority post/express mail service items for the collection and remittance of duty and taxes owed to the government compared to UPS's brokerage/handling fee which balloons with the value of the package.

The last UPS package I ever received (and refused at the door) had a total value of $156 + $18 for shipping. The UPS breakdown went like this--
UPS Way: $156 + $18 shipping + $90 UPS fees at door ($20.28 PST/GST + $69.72 handling/brokerage fee) = $264.00
Re-sent via USPS/Canada Post: $156 + $9 shipping + $5 handling fee + $20.28 taxes = $190.28
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:15 pm      Reply with quote
RuthMarion wrote:
I am trying both the hand kit & the facial kit & really like both. There hasn't been time enough to see any dramatic difference (those days may be over for me anyway! Sad - plus my skin is in good condition to start with). Anyway, even if it was awesome, I had to pay UPS just under $200cdn for brokerage & taxes. That's on top of the retail cost of the products. Until someone can retail this in Canada (Holt's or even better EDS) I will most certainly not bother to repurchase.
BTW nordstrom.com delivers only within the US.


Hi RuthMarion,

Please accept my apology with regard to the excessive fees charged by UPS. I have asked the logistics and fulfillment teams to immediately begin the process of implementing a USPS option for future shipments of ZO products.

I will be contacting you privately through PM here on EDS to discuss a credit, free product, or a combination therein.


Best regards,

Justin Morgan
Vice President - Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:25 pm      Reply with quote
Has anyone else had a problem with the dispensers on the jars of product? I am using the daily renewal cream and for the first few days the dispenser worked fine but today I couldn't get any product to come out of the top. I had to unscrew the top to open the jar and get at the product that way. Is there some way to fix the dispenser?
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:07 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
Has anyone else had a problem with the dispensers on the jars of product? I am using the daily renewal cream and for the first few days the dispenser worked fine but today I couldn't get any product to come out of the top. I had to unscrew the top to open the jar and get at the product that way. Is there some way to fix the dispenser?


Sorry, jom. I have never had a problem with the dispensers until I was within 1-2 days of the growth factor serum being used up.
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Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:02 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
Has anyone else had a problem with the dispensers on the jars of product? I am using the daily renewal cream and for the first few days the dispenser worked fine but today I couldn't get any product to come out of the top. I had to unscrew the top to open the jar and get at the product that way. Is there some way to fix the dispenser?


I have had to pump mine a couple of time when it seemed like they had hit some air bubbles. I have only noticed this on the Growth Factors and the Overnight Recovery Creme.

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Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:04 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
Hi RuthMarion,

Please accept my apology with regard to the excessive fees charged by UPS. I have asked the logistics and fulfillment teams to immediately begin the process of implementing a USPS option for future shipments of ZO products.

I will be contacting you privately through PM here on EDS to discuss a credit, free product, or a combination therein.


Best regards,

Justin Morgan
Vice President - Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.


Now THAT is service...WOW!!!

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majorb
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Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:55 am      Reply with quote
zoskinhealth wrote:

RuthMarion--I agree, those kinds of fees are HORRIBLE! So we checked them out to determine what the problem is. In this case, we can't blame UPS or USPS--it's only their job to collect it at the border; they profit from only their standard shipping costs. ZO doesn't charge sales tax on orders shipped to Canada or assess handling fees, and in fact we never see those miscellaneous import charges. So we can blame it on governmental taxes and brokers fees. That's also why our products cost so much more in certain European and Asian countries, because retailers have to try to recoup those costs.


Firstly, what great customer service! You sound like a very good company with which to deal. Very Happy

Secondly, it always makes me so angry that we in the UK usually have to pay anything from 50% to 100% more than what products sell for in the US. The phenomenon is widely known over here as "Rip-off Britain". So the explanation about retailers recouping their tax and broker fees is somewhat reassuring. However, retailers over here still seem to make a huge sneaky profit on top of those fees, despite the fact that our Customs charges are ridiculously high over here. I do wish they wouldn't be so greedy.

What's worse is the European products (for which there are no Customs charges) also have hugely inflated prices when they're sold in the UK.

But thank you for your explanation. At least it helps a little to know that.
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Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:57 am      Reply with quote
Thank you Justin for your generous offer & thank you for listening to what we have to say here. A Lot of people think that USPS & UPS are one and the same but they definitely aren't. I still hope that one day we will be able to purchase this product line within Canada but until that day..... we rely on the good old postal service. Sometimes I feel that Canada may as well be mars - we have come a long long way but I wish that cross border shopping was way easier!
Customer service like you have offered is just like the "old days". Thank you again.

Edited to include - Havana8 asked about Nordstrom delivering if ordered by phone. They (& Neiman Marcus) do but it's by UPS. Maybe I just need a stateside holiday Cool

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rileygirl
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Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:16 am      Reply with quote
I just got my New Beauty magazine. I noticed that the ZO Skin Health Radical Night Repair was one of the products listed in the "wrinkle repair" article due to its high retinol concentration!
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Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:34 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I just got my New Beauty magazine. I noticed that the ZO Skin Health Radical Night Repair was one of the products listed in the "wrinkle repair" article due to its high retinol concentration!


I think the delivery system deserves accolades as well...the high level of retinol hasn't irritated my skin at all, unlike many of the other lines I have tried.

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Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:07 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I love the ZO products. They all feel really nice on my skin, and my skin has taken on a nice, healthy glow. I was told I "look good" by my co-workers that I had not seen in a few weeks. That says something, as they never compliment, ever!


It's my turn! It's my turn! Very Happy

My sister checked out my skin today and said that it looked "perfect." Shock Shock Shock This is indeed a shocker, coming from someone who flies from Florida to NYC every 3-4 months to see a celebrity dermatologist and get various laser treatments, Botox, and fillers.


But I do have some observations of my own that I thought I would share. FYI...I started ZO on 9/8 so it has been right about a month.

- The texture of my skin looks better than any other time in the last year. I got some great results with 302, so I am really surprised by this.

- I have done 2 aggressive dermarolls since I started ZO (one whole roll and one targeted line-only roll) and I have NEVER recovered so quickly. Keep in mind that I just did a VERY aggressive roll only one week before my sister said my skin was perfect...it would have taken me at least a week and half to recover prior to ZO. I am not sure if it is the Growth Factor Serum or what, but something is working.

- I bled profusely on both rolls...more so than any other rolls in the past. Nothing changed but adding in the ZO. Retinoids increase vascular growth, and I think the high level of retinol on a daily basis coupled with a great delivery system has definitely increased my blood vessel network...a good thing, since they feed your cells!

- I have not had ANY irritation from any product in the line that I have tried...something that is quite unusual for me.

- My sister said my pigmentation looked better, but I personally think it is about the same. But this isn't really something I expect ZO to address anyway...especially in just 30 days.

- I do need to keep using Retin A 2x a week...the outbreak from hell I just had turned out to be hormonal, and I really need the tough stuff to keep that at bay.



All in all, I am very happy. I am going to continue with the ZO on daily basis, along with RA 2x a week and some favorite 302 products (like the 302 Plus Serum).

In fact, I am even checking my luggage when I travel for work this week...just so that I can take my darned ZO products with me. And I haven't checked luggage in YEARS. Rolling Eyes

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Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:04 am      Reply with quote
That is great news on your skin, Bethany! Very Happy I think the ZO products are really top of the line and with continued use, I believe results will be seen.

I would like to hear from Justin on his thoughts about the bleeding profusely after both dermaroller sessions that you did. I have not bled any more or any less after the dermaroller sessions I have done after incorporating the ZO products (but I have platelet issues and not sure if that affects this or not).

I am taking just a tiny break in the ZO products, as I need to do a 6 week cycle with Nu Derm, but I am continuing with the Growth Factor Serum, exfoliating polish, and the ZO sunscreen (these are all my favorite products from the ZO line so far and I am thrilled I can use them with nu derm Very Happy, my only sadness is that I can't use the Daily Power Defense while on the nu derm).

How is everyone else doing on the ZO products?
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Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:34 am      Reply with quote
I've been using the hydrating cleanser, exfoliating polish, sunscreen and daily renewal creme and I think they are all great products. The daily renewal creme I have only been using for about a week and a half but i've noticed a change in my skin, it just glows. I didn't think it was hydrating enough at first but now it seems fine and I can always use a moisturizer over it if I need extra hydration during the day.
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Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:29 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I would like to hear from Justin on his thoughts about the bleeding profusely after both dermaroller sessions that you did. I have not bled any more or any less after the dermaroller sessions I have done after incorporating the ZO products (but I have platelet issues and not sure if that affects this or not).


Hi Rileygirl and Bethany,

I would like to discuss the bleeding from the dermaroller with Dr. Obagi and report back to you. He is currently out of the country, but I am scheduled to meet with him shortly after he returns next week.

Bethany, could you PM me a list of all the products you are using and any details you have with regard to the dermaroller (brand, needle size, etc.)? I need to put together a case profile for Dr. Obagi to review and have a response early next week.

As always, thank you for your feedback on ZO products.


Best regards,

Justin Morgan
Vice President - Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:25 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you, Justin. I am very curious what Dr. Obagi has to say about this. I actually am going to send you a PM, as well.
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Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:47 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
Bethany, could you PM me a list of all the products you are using and any details you have with regard to the dermaroller (brand, needle size, etc.)? I need to put together a case profile for Dr. Obagi to review and have a response early next week.


Done! I also included links to some dermarolling clinicals and my results summary so that you could see that rolling is NOT as crazy as it sounds. Very Happy

Thanks for looking into this for us. Smile

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Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:35 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
bushy wrote:
I found that the Jumpstart Kit only lasted approximatley one month. I only used it on my face and the Growth Factor Serum didn't last the month as I used it twice a day but the sunscreen lasted just over a month. They are good products but I think price is going to be an issue as it really isn't possible to see results from the kit. I think the kit should have sufficient product for a couple of months so that there is a chance to see results. With the body cream, eye cream and hand products, you can see results very quickly.


I think some people may not need to use the Growth Factor Serum twice a day, so I do believe it would last 6 weeks using only once a day.



I just wanted to weigh in here as my Jumpstart-sized Growth Factor Serum ran out today. It lasted exactly a month (well, 2 days short).

However, I have consistently used it 2x a day EVERY day, on my face, neck, chest and the back of my hands. I think it would definitely go at least 6 weeks if you only used it once a day, and perhaps even longer if you used it on less areas that I have been. This is a product with very good spreadability (is that a word?)...plus it says to apply sparingly.

For those that are not familiar with the product, here is an overview:

Quote:
Ossential™ Growth Factor Serum

Concerns:
Lines, wrinkles, loss of tone, elasticity, texture and firmness

Solution:
- Helps stimulate cellular function for deep lines and wrinkles
- Boosts collagen production and increases epidermal thickness and elasticity
- Reduces hyper-pigmentation and the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles
- Soothes and calms with a light-weight non-comedogenic gel

Features & Benefits:
- Epidermal Growth Factor: engineered to dramatically increase cell-regeneration and visibly reduce the appearance of fine lines and discoloration.
- Retinol: a pure derivative of Vitamin A and the most vital component of any anti-aging skincare program. It is clinically proven to be the most effective anti-aging ingredient to decrease the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, even skin tone and increase epidermal thickness.
- Proprietary Lipopeptides: stimulate collagen and elastin.

Ingredients:
Aqua (Water), Dipropylene Glycol, Propylene Glycol, Cyclopentasiloxane, Glycerine, PEG-12 Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Dimethicone/Vinyl Dimethicone Crosspolymer, Dimethiconol, Butylene Glycol, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Glucose, Myristoyl Hexapeptide-4, Myristoyl Pentapeptide-8, Retinol, Polysorbate 20, Glycine, Alanine, Arginine Hydrochloride, Asparagine, Aspartic Acid, Cystine, Glutamic Acid, Glutamine, Histidine Hydrochloride, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine Hydrochloride, Acetyl Methionine, Phenylalanine, Proline, Serine, Threonine, Tryptophan, Tyrosine, Valine, Choline Chloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Folic Acid, Inositol, Niacinamide, Pyridoxal Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Phosphate Monobasic, Parfum, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Citronellol, Limonene, Linalool, Beta Carotene (CI 75130).

http://www.zoskinhealth.com/shop/facial/growthfactorserum

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Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:54 am      Reply with quote
Just an FYI for anyone interested in the jumpstart kit. The ZO cleanser lasted 6 weeks using a small amount twice a day. The Occlipse sunscreen lasted 6 weeks applied daily to face and neck. I still have plenty of the Radical Night Repair, as I alternate that with Retin A, so that product used every other night will definitely last at least 8 weeks.

I am not sure you need to depress the "pump" all the way on the Growth Factor Serum. It does say to apply sparingly, and I find that depressing the full amount gives me more than enough for my face and neck. I think one could just depress a small amount out, and then this product would last 6-8 weeks (depending on if using once or twice a day).

I think the jumpstart kit is a good deal. It will tell you if you like the feel of the products on your skin, if you have any reaction to these products, and one may have some results in this short time (depending on your skin, as outlined by Justin above); one would at least know if they want to purchase another jumpstart kit or full size products. It is also a great way to get the Radical Night Repair, which honestly is out of my budget (and a lot of others) for the full size product.

I started the full size Growth Factor Serum on Sunday, and I am using this product twice a day (right now with my 6 week cycle of Nu Derm). I'll keep you posted on how long the full size container lasts.

I would still love to see a kit that includes a choice of cleansers (I would like to compare the hydrating cleanser with the exfoliating cleanser), the Growth Factor Serum, the Daily Power Defense, the Radical Night Repair, the exfoliating polish, and the sunscreen. I think this would be the "ultimate anti-aging" kit!

I also would love for ZO to come up with a lip product, as we discussed somewhere else in this thread! Pray
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Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:39 am      Reply with quote
Rileygirl, although I have oily skin, I actually prefer the Hydrating Cleanser as I can easily use this around my eyes. I found that having the grains in the exfoliating cleanser made it too difficult to use in the eye area.
It really is a shame about the prices of these products. With recent developments in world markets, the aussie dollar has dropped about 30% so these products are now 30% dearer for me, plus the ridiculous freight charges.

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Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:06 am      Reply with quote
bushy wrote:
Rileygirl, although I have oily skin, I actually prefer the Hydrating Cleanser as I can easily use this around my eyes. I found that having the grains in the exfoliating cleanser made it too difficult to use in the eye area.


Thank you, Bushy. I agree it is difficult to use the exfoliating cleanser in the eye area. I'm a little afraid of a bead getting in my eye! Laughing
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Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:10 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
I would still love to see a kit that includes a choice of cleansers (I would like to compare the hydrating cleanser with the exfoliating cleanser), the Growth Factor Serum, the Daily Power Defense, the Radical Night Repair, the exfoliating polish, and the sunscreen. I think this would be the "ultimate anti-aging" kit!


I would skip the Polish (though I LOVE it) and include the Overnight Recovery Creme - only because most women feel that they need a moisturizer (though I know Dr. O doesn't categorize it as a true moisturizer).

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Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:33 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
rileygirl wrote:
I would still love to see a kit that includes a choice of cleansers (I would like to compare the hydrating cleanser with the exfoliating cleanser), the Growth Factor Serum, the Daily Power Defense, the Radical Night Repair, the exfoliating polish, and the sunscreen. I think this would be the "ultimate anti-aging" kit!


I would skip the Polish (though I LOVE it) and include the Overnight Recovery Creme - only because most women feel that they need a moisturizer (though I know Dr. O doesn't categorize it as a true moisturizer).


Maybe they can make different "anti-aging" kits for different goals?? Laughing
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Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:45 am      Reply with quote
Although I do love the ZO products that I have due to the economy and the $$ I will not be using them. I in fact will be returning them this week to Nordies and stick with my NuDerm as much as I hate it my spending is at a halt until further notice. Sad The products are GREAT its just to much for me to spend at this time

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Sothys Anti-Ageing Comfort Cream - Grade 2 (50 ml / 1.69 floz) Bremenn Clinical Strength Smooth Serum (50 ml / 1.7 floz) June Jacobs Protective Moisturizer Broad Spectrum SPF 30 (47 ml / 1.6 floz)