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bethany
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Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:08 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
bethany wrote:
I have a new skin goal...I want to be able to skip any kind of foundation, and ONLY wear the Oclipse on a daily basis. While the Oclipse seems to work for almost every skin color, I still wouldn't mind it being a tad lighter.

I wonder if ZO has considered making it in Light, Medium, and Dark?


Hi Bethany,

The tinted Oclipse is a great idea! I’ll bring it up at the next development meeting. I’d be curious to know more, though... our research has found that most (practically all!) skin types can wear the Oclipse tint. Are you looking for something super light?



I am quite fair skinned. The Oclipse does work for me while I have the pigmented areas and I am slightly red due to various skin tortures. However, my hope is to get my slightly darker face to match my lighter neck, and I suspect that the Oclipse will not be light enough at that time.

Liquid foundations aren't good for your skin, but MMU often exaggerates wrinkles or doesn't work for drier skins. But if you have fabulous skin from using Obagi or ZO (or you were born with it, darn them), wouldn't it be great to completely skip the whole foundation mess, and just protect your skin with Oclipse and maybe touch up a couple of areas with concealer if necessary?

I look at it as a way to 1) simplify the morning routine even further, and 2) make an already great sunscreen/primer even MORE versatile. That would allow women to save on foundation, protect their skin, and justify the cost of the sunscreen to their husbands. Very Happy

But I don't think more than 3 shades would make sense...and maybe even 2 would be enough.

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Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:19 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
Hi Bethany and Rileygirl,

Thank you for the question about Ossential Daily Power Defense, its technology, and how it compares to the product from Remergent.

While Remergent and Daily Power Defense share the same DNA repair technology (Ultrasomes and Roxisomes), the ZO Daily Power Defense formula has the benefit of other key ingredients that work synergistically to enhance results. By adding Matrixyl 3000 (palmitoyl oligopeptide, palmitoyl tetrapeptide-7) and retinol, we've increased activity and enhanced the repair capability by recreating conditions conducive to cell and matrix turnover (increased number of cell messengers involved in regulating the sequence of events required for skin repair). The retinol is in a delivery system which specifically allows for its use during the day as it protects the retinol from photodegradation. Additionally, the inclusion of the beta glucan and ceramide strengthens barrier efficacy and enhances the reduction of appearance of wrinkles and fine lines. With more active cells, and an environment primed for regenerative work, we've set the stage to get enhanced results from the Remergent DNA repair technology.

In essence, Daily Power Defense represents a new category of DNA repair products which actively works to create an improved environment for the DNA repair while also addressing barrier function, skin thickness, and the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles.

Here is a quick list of the key ingredients and their function within Daily Power Defense:

Sym Glucan – sub-micron sized particles of glucan – penetrates skin, works to reduce the appearance of wrinkles and reduce roughness of skin.

Omega 6 Ceramide: restructuring, soothing and improving corneocytic cell cohesion and optimizing moisture levels in the skin.

Ultrasomes - liposomes engineered to carry an extract from a marine microbe, intensifying the skin's ability to repair sun-inflicted DNA damage, speeding recovery reaction, and reducing the appearance of post-sunburn peeling.

Roxisomes –liposomes encapsulating the first repair enzyme, isolated from a tiny mustard plant, to protect the cell's genetic material from free radical damage. Roxomes aid in the removal of oxidation in the cell's nucleus and its energy-generating mitochondria.

Retinol – encapsulated to reduce photodegradation for daytime use, generates cell stimulation, reshaping of misshapen cells, cellular regeneration, restructuring of collagen and elastin

Matrixyl 3000 – increases skin thickness, reduces appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, anchors new cells for epidermal reconstruction.



Wow...I didn't realize ALL of that was in the Daily Power Defense. Shock Thanks very much for sharing!!

Come to think of it, this is basically a couple of Remegent products rolled into one, PLUS some extra stuff. This deinitely helps explain why the price points are different.

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bushy
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:31 am      Reply with quote
FYIGuy, could you please advise if the percentage of Ultrasomes and Roxisomes in Daily Power Defense is the same as in the Remergent DNA Repair. In many cases, just having the appropriate ingredients can be quite useless in terms of effectiveness if there is insufficient quantity. Many consumers buy products based on highlighted ingredients, unaware that the percentage of these ingredients is too small to have any effect.

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Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:17 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:

I am quite fair skinned. The Oclipse does work for me while I have the pigmented areas and I am slightly red due to various skin tortures. However, my hope is to get my slightly darker face to match my lighter neck


Have you tried it on your lighter neck? My neck is slightly lighter than my face, but the Oclipse works just as well there as on my face.
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Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:38 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
bethany wrote:

I am quite fair skinned. The Oclipse does work for me while I have the pigmented areas and I am slightly red due to various skin tortures. However, my hope is to get my slightly darker face to match my lighter neck


Have you tried it on your lighter neck? My neck is slightly lighter than my face, but the Oclipse works just as well there as on my face.


Yes, and it does not completely disappear.

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Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:03 am      Reply with quote
Bethany - that's a great point about NuDerm being a bit older and not the latest/greatest technology. I can see that to a point - of all the reading I've done over the last couple of years re: skin care, the NuDerm line is the only one where people report actual and dramatic skin improvement. Although retin a has been around for decades, it's still the gold standard for aging prevention.

Rileygirl - thanks for bringing up Justin's post.

I'm not meaning to rain on anyone's successes with ZO. It just seems like an incredible amount of $ (especially given the economy) for something's that cosmetic. Although, if I had the $ I'd probably be trying it!

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Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:01 am      Reply with quote
I totally understand, tsjmom. You have brought up very valid questions, in my opinion, and a lot of people, I am sure, are asking the same exact questions that you did!

Again, I think with longer use one could expect some good results with ZO - I don't think that I will ever look 20 again (sigh), but I would like the best skin possible for my age, and I am just a huge Obagi believer, as the Nu Derm was the one and only thing that ever improved my skin out of everything I tried. Therefore, I am willing to give the ZO products a good trial! Once I am back on them, I'll keep everyone posted on how they are working!
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Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:57 pm      Reply with quote
Well, my Obagi Nu Derm change of pace was short-lived since I either over did it too quickly, or had a reaction of some kind. Sad

But after taking several days off from everything and slathering my face in hydrocortisone and emu oil, I finally returned to using a couple of ZO products tonight on my face to help with the irritation...the Overnight Recovery Creme and the Growth Factor Serum (applied in that order since I am still a bit raw). All I could think was "Ahhhhh...." when I applied them. No stinging, nothing to oxidize under my fingernails, etc. I truly do using these products.

I am going to try the Nu Derm again in a couple of weeks because I want to lose the pigmentation, but I may be taking a non-traditional approach...we'll see what the derm says on Friday.

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:13 am      Reply with quote
I have raised this again as it is one question I would like answered.


bushy wrote:
FYIGuy, could you please advise if the percentage of Ultrasomes and Roxisomes in Daily Power Defense is the same as in the Remergent DNA Repair. In many cases, just having the appropriate ingredients can be quite useless in terms of effectiveness if there is insufficient quantity. Many consumers buy products based on highlighted ingredients, unaware that the percentage of these ingredients is too small to have any effect.

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:01 am      Reply with quote
Man you make me want to end my no buy policy again. I have been using my NuDerm also full force but not with your reaction. Did you have a micro before hand? I did I wonder if that helps (gift cert) from derm office Sorry I hope you feel less raw Sad

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:23 am      Reply with quote
well I work at a Real Estate office and one of my agents husband is a big plastic surgeon here and we were talking about Obagi and she said that my face looked great and that her husband does not carry skincare but she was going to do the NuDerm. Made me feel really great.

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
bethany
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:42 pm      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
well I work at a Real Estate office and one of my agents husband is a big plastic surgeon here and we were talking about Obagi and she said that my face looked great and that her husband does not carry skincare but she was going to do the NuDerm. Made me feel really great.


That's fabulous feedback...congrats!!!

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:29 pm      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
well I work at a Real Estate office and one of my agents husband is a big plastic surgeon here and we were talking about Obagi and she said that my face looked great and that her husband does not carry skincare but she was going to do the NuDerm. Made me feel really great.


Wow, that is a great compliment! You should feel great! Congrats!
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Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:30 pm      Reply with quote
bushy wrote:
FYIGuy, could you please advise if the percentage of Ultrasomes and Roxisomes in Daily Power Defense is the same as in the Remergent DNA Repair. In many cases, just having the appropriate ingredients can be quite useless in terms of effectiveness if there is insufficient quantity. Many consumers buy products based on highlighted ingredients, unaware that the percentage of these ingredients is too small to have any effect.


Hi Bushy,

Thank you for the question. It’s a good one!

As you have already suggested, the concentration of active ingredients is critical to the performance of the product. Are you familiar with the term “fairy dust”? It’s the term that insiders in the skin care industry use when active ingredients are added in clinically insignificant concentrations. You know — just add a little retinol, so that they claim “retinol” on the package (or other marketing materials), but it has no practical or clinical value. It’s one of Dr. Obagi’s biggest pet peeves, because it is so useless to the product, and unfair to the consumer.

One thing you never have to worry about with any Obagi product is that ingredients are added in clinically insignificant concentrations. There’s no fairy dust, I promise! Many of the threads on EDS are an excellent indication of how active and effective his products are.

One distinction, though. His new ZO line is not “medical grade”, does not include retinoic acid or hydroquinone, so it doesn’t in any way, shape or form, cause the irritation or reaction that NuDerm does.

Now, in answer to your specific question:

When he began formulating Daily Power Defense, Dr. Obagi met with Dan Yarosh, Ph.D. (President & CEO, Remergent) and Joe Rosenstreich (former VP of R&D for Estee Lauder). Dr Obagi wanted to borrow their expertise and experience, to make sure that the Ultrasomes and Roxisomes were of optimal concentration. He also wanted to make sure that ZO’s Daily Power Defense not only represented the best thinking/technology of Remergent, but the “topspin” that Dr. Obagi likes to put in every product. (some of those ingredients were included in one of my previous posts). Unfortunately I can’t reveal the concentration (I would need Dr. Yarosh’s permission), but you can be assured that Dr. Yarosh has the greatest respect for Dr. Obagi, and wanted to be sure that the ZO products represented his best thinking. So, the concentration is as good as, if not better than, Remergent.

As a rule, ZO Skin Health uses active ingredients at a concentration equal to or greater than any peer product.

I hope this helps.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President – Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:39 pm      Reply with quote
Great info Justin I was waiting also to hear the response that product seems like the real star for daily use. If you could only pick one product would this be the one?

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:10 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, redhead:

Let me answer on Justin's behalf.

When Dr. Obagi meets with women with anti-aging concerns, his favorite product to recommend is Daily Power Defense. It's a great complement to Retin-A.

Also very popular are the Oclipse sunscreen, the exfoliating polish, and Te pads (for oily and acne-prone skin). Curiously, these three are some of our least expensive products, but are customers' favorites.

(Justin's personal favorite is probably the Growth Factor Serum, because it contains a much higher concentration of peptides than any other product that's commercially available. It has two peptides, with a concentration of 25 parts-per-million (PPM); whereas most companies use a much lower concentration--only 2 - 5 PPM. That's another good example of how Dr. Obagi likes to "goose" the concentration of active ingredients. Most people don't know that, of course, but you know Justin, he's a tech-guy.)

Donna Queen

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Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:23 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks Donna

That was what I was hoping and the Overnight Recovery Cream

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Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:54 am      Reply with quote
FYIGuy, thank you very much for the information and answering my question so well regarding Daily Power Defense. This should prove to be a very good product.

One other suggestion I would like to make is not to change formulations based on some customer whims. It would be preferable if other products were added to the line rather than buggering products that work. I refer to the sunscreen which currently suits all skin types and I certainly don't want to see it with added hues or tints. And I would be extremely disappointed to see any of the other products in the line altered in any way because of different preferences in texture, moisture or colour. To me that is just "chasing the buck" at the expense of quality ingredients that work.

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Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:24 am      Reply with quote
bushy wrote:
One other suggestion I would like to make is not to change formulations based on some customer whims. It would be preferable if other products were added to the line rather than buggering products that work. I refer to the sunscreen which currently suits all skin types and I certainly don't want to see it with added hues or tints. And I would be extremely disappointed to see any of the other products in the line altered in any way because of different preferences in texture, moisture or colour. To me that is just "chasing the buck" at the expense of quality ingredients that work.


I am in TOTAL AGREEMENT with Bushy. I would rather see more products added then changing formulas on an already great product. I tried to express that, myself, with the sunscreen, but Bushy put it much more eloquently! So, thank you Bushy for expressing how I feel, as well, but just could not get out!
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Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:26 am      Reply with quote
My 2 cents, I think the 2 products that will give the most "bang for the buck" with longer term use, and are the "starts" of ZO are the Daily Power Defense and the Growth Factor Serum. The active ingredients in these 2 products are great and I really think they can change the skin, again with long term use.
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Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:45 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
bushy wrote:
One other suggestion I would like to make is not to change formulations based on some customer whims. It would be preferable if other products were added to the line rather than buggering products that work. I refer to the sunscreen which currently suits all skin types and I certainly don't want to see it with added hues or tints. And I would be extremely disappointed to see any of the other products in the line altered in any way because of different preferences in texture, moisture or colour. To me that is just "chasing the buck" at the expense of quality ingredients that work.


I am in TOTAL AGREEMENT with Bushy. I would rather see more products added then changing formulas on an already great product. I tried to express that, myself, with the sunscreen, but Bushy put it much more eloquently! So, thank you Bushy for expressing how I feel, as well, but just could not get out!


I don't consider my sunscreen color option recommendation as a "whim." The Oclipse product works on my face as long as I am red or pigmented...it will not match my skin when those issues are eradicated.

If ZO isn't interested in gaining/retaining customers with fair skin, that is certainly their option. But it doesn't make my needs (and the rest of the fair-skinned market) any less important than those who have middle of the road skin.

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Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:55 am      Reply with quote
Here are a couple of ZO product reviews I just discovered:

Quote:

Review of Ossential™ Radical Night Repair
About.com Rating ***** (5 out 5 stars)
By Faith Lawless, About.com


The Bottom Line
Quite the little age fighter, Ossential™ Radical Night Repair gives a definite one-two punch to aging skin. That was the best six weeks my skin has ever had.

Pros
- Contains 1.0% concentrated retinol, which is 10-times the industry average
- Time-released formula works all night while you sleep
- Contains vitamins and anti-oxidants to fight free radicals and prevent future damage
- Boosts your skin's natural collagen production
- See results in as little as six weeks

Cons
- The price may turn some people off, but it's less than going to a dermatologist's office

Description
- Manufacturer - ZO Skin Health
- Infused with high concentrations of pure vitamin A
- Contains Crithmum Martinum, a seacoast plant extract that is rich in anti-oxidants
- Contains 1.0% concentrated retinol
- Formulated by Dr. Zein Obagi, internationally renowned dermatologist and skincare pioneer
- Size - 1.7 oz.
- Suggested Price - $325
- Available - Online, the STUDIO at Fred Segal, and select Nordstrom department stores

Guide Review - Review of Ossential™ Radical Night Repair
I have to admit, even though it is very simple to use I was very afraid of the concentrated retinol at first. I have fairly sensitive skin and was prepared to have a raw red face after I applied it. Surprisingly there were no signs of irritation, even though there was a slight sting on any blemishes I had, but that only lasted for a millisecond. I like to refer to the Radical Night Repair product as a serum, because it somewhat looks like one and you apply it at night under your moisturizer. The one thing that definitely shows that it's more than a serum is the velvety texture. It was like butter on my fingertips, and then like satin on my face once I applied it.

So it's all well and good that the product feels great, but did it actually work? After using Ossential™ Radical Night Repair with a couple of the other ZO Health products, I would have to definitely say that the product got the job done. Even though I am only in my 30's, I still have fine lines as well as newcomer parenthesis wrinkles. Using Ossential™ Radical Night Repair drastically improved the look of the fine lines on my forehead as well as the parenthesis around my mouth. Also, I had some lingering brown spots from past medications and pregnancies, and like magic Ossential™ Radical Night Repair helped to get rid of them as well.

The bottom line is that no matter what your age or status of fine lines and wrinkles, Ossential™ Radical Night Repair is one age fighter you need in your anti-aging arsenal. The fact that you are getting a highly concentrated dose of retinol that works while you sleep is much better than sitting and waiting in the dermatologist's office. Since we are all living busy lives, why not save yourself the time and money of a doctor's visit and give Dr. Obagi's ZO Health products a shot? In the end, your skin will thank you for it.

http://makeup.about.com/od/treatmentproducts/gr/OssentialRepair.htm

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Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:58 am      Reply with quote
Quote:
Review of Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème
About.com Rating **** (5 out of 5 stars)
By Faith Lawless, About.com


The Bottom Line
A great multi-tasking, soothing, and nourishing overnight crème. Who knew it could be so easy to fight aging and repair your skin all while you catch some Z's?

Pros
- Contains ceramides to help rebuild the skin's barrier function
- Formulation is rich, while being very soothing and nourishing
- Contains and anti-irritant complex
- Contains time-released encapsulated vitamin A
- Repairs collagen and evens skin tone

Cons
- The price may turn some people off, but it's less than going to a dermatologist's office

Description
- Manufacturer - ZO Skin Health
- Contains encapsulated Vitamin A
- Contains ceramides
- Formulated by Dr. Zein Obagi, internationally renowned dermatologist and skincare pioneer
- Unique packaging to stop daily contamination
- Size - 1.7 oz.
- Suggested Price - $95
- Available - Online, the STUDIO at Fred Segal, and select Nordstrom department stores

Guide Review - Review of Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème

I tried Dr. Obagi's Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème in combination with his Radical Night Repair and Exfoliating Polish. I really liked the entire line of products but instantly fell in love with the Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème. The cream felt very rich and creamy, yet it did not leave my skin feeling oil after the application. There is a slight scent to the cream, but it was very light and pleasant plus it faded very quickly.

One of my favorite things about the Overnight Crème was the container. One thing I hate is using a jar cream and having to stick my finger in it every night, or hunt for a Q-tip to use. Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème has stopped this problem because all you do is press the top of the jar and you get a perfect portion of cream to apply to your face and throat.

So the packaging is wonderful, but how well does the cream actually work? After using the Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème in combination with the other products for six weeks, I couldn't believe how bright, soft, and balanced my skin looked. I've always had issues with uneven skin tone on certain areas of my face, which meant that I never would go outside without wearing at least a little makeup. After using Dr. Obagi's Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème my skin tone was even and it looked healthier. For the first time I was actually comfortable with going down my driveway to my mailbox without having to have a concealer, powder, or foundation on my face.

The bottom line is the ZO Skin Health line is an absolute must-have. The Ommerse™ Overnight Recovery Crème, along with the rest of Dr. Obagi's line is a gift from the skin care and makeup Gods. Honestly I don't know where it's been all of my life, but now that it's here my skin can't thank me enough.

http://makeup.about.com/od/treatmentproducts/gr/OmmerseCreme.htm

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Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:59 am      Reply with quote
Quote:
Review of Offects™ Exfoliating Polish
About.com Rating **** (5 out of 5 stars)
By Faith Lawless, About.com

The Bottom Line
What a wonderful multi-tasking exfoliating polish. It's like scrubbing your face with satiny sugar that has a built in kick to help repair your skin at the same time. If you use a facial scrub weekly, then this one should be the only one you need.

Pros
- Includes Dead Sea Minerals
- Contains the benefits of Microdermabrasion
- Delivers anti-oxidant protection while renewing and conditioning the skin
- Contains Magnesium crystals, which is used in professional dermatological treatments
- Doesn't feel to rough or harsh on skin, even on sensitive skin

Cons
- Some may not agree with the price, but it's less than going to a dermatologist's office.

Description
- Manufacturer - ZO Skin Health
- Infused with natural minerals from the Dead Sea
- Contains vitamins A, C, C-Ester, and E
- Formulated by Dr. Zein Obagi, internationally renowned dermatologist and skincare pioneer
- Size - 2 oz.
- Suggested Price - $75
- Available - Online, the STUDIO at Fred Segal, and select Nordstrom department stores

Guide Review - Review of Offects™ Exfoliating Polish

The best way I can describe the feeling of Dr. Zein Obagi's Offects™ Exfoliating Polish is by thinking back to sitting on the white sugar-sand beach in Florida. The sand on various beaches are so soft it's hard to believe that it's actually sand. The same goes with Offects™ Exfoliating Polish. The natural Magnesium crystals from the Dead Sea, mixed with vitamin E, work hard to polish your skin while feeling like the soft and subtleness of sugar-sand.

To be honest, it's hard for me to get on board with using a face scrub two-three times a week. Let's face it, I have a busy life just like the rest of you and adding another step to my skincare regimen every week doesn't seem like fun to me. However, once I tried Dr. Obagi's Offects™ Exfoliating Polish I was a facial scrub convert. One thing that I hate about other facial scrub was that it was so rough on my sensitive skin. I hated looking like I was sunburned and then slapped in the face after a simple one minute scrubbing session. But with Offects™ Exfoliating Polish I didn't experience any of that. The polish felt very comfortable on my skin, did not hurt or sting, had no offensive perfume, washed away easily, and didn't leave my skin that horrid strawberry red shade.

The bottom line is if you are trying to fight aging and want to actually win the battle, then you may want to begin with Dr. Obagi's Offects™ Exfoliating Polish. Not only will you be fighting those nasty little wrinkles, but you will also be giving yourself a mini spa facial at the same time. Who could ask for more?

http://makeup.about.com/od/treatmentproducts/gr/OffectsPolish.htm


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FYIguy
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Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 77
Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:42 pm      Reply with quote
We always appreciate the input of EDS members. Too many companies stay huddled in their ivory towers, and listen only to focus groups, when the real inspiration should come from people who actually use the products. So we appreciate your input on new product ideas, and constructive criticism on existing products, and use it advisedly.

As for changing the formulas... no one changes the formulas more than Dr. Obagi. In a new magazine interview (I think it was for American Express Departures magazine that is coming out in December), he is quoted as saying “when I develop formulas I change things, I always change things”. In fact, he relentlessly tinkers with the formula before we add it to the line, to make sure that the products deliver the best result. (he doesn’t care about the fragrance, color, viscosity, packaging, etc — that’s for the Marketing Department to figure out — he only cares about activating and stimulating the skin.) So once we introduce a product, it’s not likely that we can or will change it.

As for the tints for Oclipse. I discussed that yesterday with our VP of Marketing. Her experience at Procter & Gamble proved that the majority of people will opt for “medium”, given the options of light, medium and dark. In fact, 80% of people opt for “medium”, 10% each for light and dark. The tint in Oclipse works for the vast majority of people. It’s not a “one tint fits all”, however. There are two skin types for which it’s not a good fit... African Americans with a blue tone to their skin (it ashes out their natural color), and very fair complexions / Scandinavian style (too much tint). To give you an idea of the range — one of Cindy McCain’s make-up artists uses it as both a sunscreen and primer for Cindy, and I’m told that complexions even as dark as Michelle Obama’s can successfully wear Oclipse. Maybe that’s one thing that they can agree on! Very Happy

As always, thank you for the input and questions.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
VP of R&D
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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Justin Morgan | Vice President - Research & Development | ZO Skin Health, Inc.
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