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jom
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:16 pm      Reply with quote
queenbee wrote:
I am trying to get rid of persistent age spots on my forehead and cheeks. I have looked into the RX line but think it is too aggressive for my situation. (A close friend is doing his whole program and is experiencing major peeling/redness, etc. although she is getting great results.)
I have been using radical night repair w/ the growth serum and the daily power defense for several months. I have seen an improvement in my overall skin texture and some fading of the spots but not as much as I would like. I was considering using ONLY the blender/clear from his RX line but am concerned it may still be too aggressive. Any thoughts on how to combine these products into an effective but gentler regimen? Or another way to combat this annoying problem? The goal is perfect skin, of course! thanks.


Hi and welcome queenbee, there is a product I have been using for almost a year that has helped tremendously with my age spots. It sounds like we have a similar problem with the age spots, I thought Obagi would be too aggressive for me as well. I bought it online from a doctor in London, here is the link: http://www.drfrancesprennajones.com/products.html
It is called Formula 2006 and it contains glycolic and salicyic acid as well as other wonderful ingredients. It is the only product I use at night after cleansing with the Karin Herzog professional cleanser. It's not exactly a toner but it goes on like one. It is enough to keep me hydrated throughout the night. In fact I have at times used a night cream over it but my skin always looks better the next day if I don't use a cream over it. It is a little pricey but one bottle is enough to last a year if you use it sparingly. I bought mine last February and I know I have enough left to get me through to next February. There is some slight purging at first, which wasn't so bad for me really, just one really nasty whitehead. I have normal skin so the purging wasn't a big problem for me. But after a month WoW! my skin was so clear I had two facialists tell me I look like I never spent any time in the sun. I did have some remaining pigmentation on my nose (from not using a strong enough sunscreen) and I have been using the ZO Daily Renewal Cream in the morning for the last month and a half and it has really helped break that up. Anyway, I'm being very long winded, but that is what has helped with my age spots. HTH!
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:20 pm      Reply with quote
Like queenbee I am struggling w/ the under eye area as well and am looking for a solution (I know I already asked for this help but I haven't heard anything back besides maybe I need to wait longer for results but it's been 2 months now). I have been putting the Radical Night repair in that area w/out irritation (and the ZO eye cream during the day and over the radical night repair at night) but I'm not noticing great results w/ the bags/darker pigment. My problem is more the deep crease from the corner of the eye down and the puffy/baggy eye look. I look tired even when I'm not!

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Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:59 pm      Reply with quote
MsJill wrote:
Like queenbee I am struggling w/ the under eye area as well and am looking for a solution (I know I already asked for this help but I haven't heard anything back besides maybe I need to wait longer for results but it's been 2 months now). I have been putting the Radical Night repair in that area w/out irritation (and the ZO eye cream during the day and over the radical night repair at night) but I'm not noticing great results w/ the bags/darker pigment. My problem is more the deep crease from the corner of the eye down and the puffy/baggy eye look. I look tired even when I'm not!


Have you considered facial exercises? The can definitely help provide some significant lift. FlexEffect is the more comprehensive program, and they have tons of before and after photos on their website.

And then there is my favorite...dermarolling. I have had some significant lift on my upper lids, a total transformation under my eyes, and 90% elimination of my crowsfeet.

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bethany
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:11 pm      Reply with quote
queenbee wrote:
I am trying to get rid of persistent age spots on my forehead and cheeks. I have looked into the RX line but think it is too aggressive for my situation. (A close friend is doing his whole program and is experiencing major peeling/redness, etc. although she is getting great results.)
I have been using radical night repair w/ the growth serum and the daily power defense for several months. I have seen an improvement in my overall skin texture and some fading of the spots but not as much as I would like. I was considering using ONLY the blender/clear from his RX line but am concerned it may still be too aggressive. Any thoughts on how to combine these products into an effective but gentler regimen? Or another way to combat this annoying problem? The goal is perfect skin, of course! thanks.


I am faced with a similar situation, with diffuse melasma along my jawline. ZO is definitely stronger than many skin lines, but it is not designed to eliminate problem pigmentation.

I can't handle using Nu Derm every day (tried and failed), so I am going to be doing Nu Derm 2 days a week and ZO the other 5 days. This is how my schedule will probably look:

Nu Derm Days:
AM:
Nu Derm Clear
ZO Oclipse

PM:
Nu Derm Blender/Retin A
ZO Growth Factor Serum

ZO Days:
AM:
Vivite Vibrance
ZO Daily Power Defense
ZO Oclipse

PM:
ZO Radical Night Repair
ZO Growth Factor Serum

Other options to consider are the Vivite Vibrance from Allergan or the Vi Derm Bleaching Cream Rx....you can use both right along with ZO (I am doing so now). You will find lots of discussion around these products on this thread:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31060

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Camelia
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:16 pm      Reply with quote
Jom,

I'm interested in the Dr Prenna Jones lotion. Do you think you could be kind enough to tell me the ingredients in it? Presumably she has to print the ingredients of it on the side of the packaging? I already use glycolic acid and wonder if it would be high strength enough for me and it's a lot to invest in without knowing if it will work for me.
Thank you very much.

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rileygirl
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:06 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
I can't handle using Nu Derm every day (tried and failed), so I am going to be doing Nu Derm 2 days a week and ZO the other 5 days. This is how my schedule will probably look:

Nu Derm Days:
AM:
Nu Derm Clear
ZO Oclipse

PM:
Nu Derm Blender/Retin A
ZO Growth Factor Serum



Bethany, are you using the entire Nu Derm system on the days you call "nu derm" or are you only using the Clear, Blender/RA, and not the cleanser, toner, exfoderm?
bethany
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:05 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
bethany wrote:
I can't handle using Nu Derm every day (tried and failed), so I am going to be doing Nu Derm 2 days a week and ZO the other 5 days. This is how my schedule will probably look:

Nu Derm Days:
AM:
Nu Derm Clear
ZO Oclipse

PM:
Nu Derm Blender/Retin A
ZO Growth Factor Serum



Bethany, are you using the entire Nu Derm system on the days you call "nu derm" or are you only using the Clear, Blender/RA, and not the cleanser, toner, exfoderm?


That's a good question. I will probably use the cleanser and toner because I know that using the system as a whole optimizes application pH, etc. But I am not planning to use the Exfoderm at this point.

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bethany
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:09 pm      Reply with quote
Just an FYI...the ZO Skin Health site is offering "3 Complimentary Samples" with any purchase.

Unfortunately, it doesn't say anything about what products you will get to sample, nor does it mention the sizes. Maybe Donna or Justin can give us a little more scoop.

http://www.zoskinhealth.com/

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rileygirl
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:25 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
rileygirl wrote:
bethany wrote:
I can't handle using Nu Derm every day (tried and failed), so I am going to be doing Nu Derm 2 days a week and ZO the other 5 days. This is how my schedule will probably look:

Nu Derm Days:
AM:
Nu Derm Clear
ZO Oclipse

PM:
Nu Derm Blender/Retin A
ZO Growth Factor Serum



Bethany, are you using the entire Nu Derm system on the days you call "nu derm" or are you only using the Clear, Blender/RA, and not the cleanser, toner, exfoderm?


That's a good question. I will probably use the cleanser and toner because I know that using the system as a whole optimizes application pH, etc. But I am not planning to use the Exfoderm at this point.


I don't blame you on the Exfoderm. Not one of my favorite products - makes my face look like a tomato!
jom
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:42 pm      Reply with quote
Camelia wrote:
Jom,

I'm interested in the Dr Prenna Jones lotion. Do you think you could be kind enough to tell me the ingredients in it? Presumably she has to print the ingredients of it on the side of the packaging? I already use glycolic acid and wonder if it would be high strength enough for me and it's a lot to invest in without knowing if it will work for me.
Thank you very much.


Hi Camelia, Here are the ingredients:

Aqua, glycerin, ethoxydiglycol, alcohol denat., glycolic acid, aluminium chlohydroxy allantoinate, salicylic acid, hamamelis virginiana, citrus aurantium dulcis, punica granatum, zingiber officinalis, imidazolidinyl urea
jom
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:46 pm      Reply with quote
Just an FYI for everyone, you can now buy ZO products on blissworld.com. Sometimes they have free shipping or take a % off promotions and they always let you take 10% off on the month of your birthday if you register with them.
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Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:02 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone, you can now buy ZO products on blissworld.com. Sometimes they have free shipping or take a % off promotions and they always let you take 10% off on the month of your birthday if you register with them.


Jom, thanks for the heads up on this!

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Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:20 am      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone, you can now buy ZO products on blissworld.com. Sometimes they have free shipping or take a % off promotions and they always let you take 10% off on the month of your birthday if you register with them.

I just looked on their site blissworld.com and found nothing it did a brand search Sad

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:51 am      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
jom wrote:
Just an FYI for everyone, you can now buy ZO products on blissworld.com. Sometimes they have free shipping or take a % off promotions and they always let you take 10% off on the month of your birthday if you register with them.

I just looked on their site blissworld.com and found nothing it did a brand search Sad


Look under new products, red head. They are there!
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:02 am      Reply with quote
K will do

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
red head
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:14 am      Reply with quote
found it> I know that the exforderm hurts but to use mine up I have been using it at night and have found that when i wake up my face does not hurt like during the day, just a thought. So today is the day that i will pull the trigger on GFS, DPD and maybe the exfoliating cream. Iam thinking that the Overnight Recovery Cream may be to much like a moisterizer and I could use the GFS nightly-thanks for all the advice Iam feeling much better now and actually can remember things for longer periods of time Surprised

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
bethany
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:49 am      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
Iam feeling much better now and actually can remember things for longer periods of time Surprised


That is GREAT news!

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Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:12 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks guys

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Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:59 am      Reply with quote
MsJill wrote:
Like queenbee I am struggling w/ the under eye area as well and am looking for a solution (I know I already asked for this help but I haven't heard anything back besides maybe I need to wait longer for results but it's been 2 months now). I have been putting the Radical Night repair in that area w/out irritation (and the ZO eye cream during the day and over the radical night repair at night) but I'm not noticing great results w/ the bags/darker pigment. My problem is more the deep crease from the corner of the eye down and the puffy/baggy eye look. I look tired even when I'm not!


Just bumping this up for FYIguy or ZOskinhealth, as I think this needs an answer!
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:09 am      Reply with quote
I am also going to toss out a question for Justin:

The Exfoliating Polish and the Exfoliating Cleanser both contain a number of actives....can you please explain how the actives get absorbed vs. just washed down the drain?

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Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:31 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
I am also going to toss out a question for Justin:

The Exfoliating Polish and the Exfoliating Cleanser both contain a number of actives....can you please explain how the actives get absorbed vs. just washed down the drain?


Hi Bethany,

Great question, thanks.

You’re right, some of the ingredients get washed down the drain. Dr. Obagi has formulated the Exfoliating Polish specially to enhance penetration— it all depends on (1) the molecular weight of the ingredients; (2) the use of humectants along with an occlusive agent; and (3) the physical abrasion and stimulation of the skin.

Ingredients with higher molecular weights (like magnesium crystals and sodium bicarbonate) do not penetrate the skin; therefore they get rinsed away. But ingredients with lower molecular weight (like vitamins A, C, and E) are able to penetrate.

A humectant (like glycerin) can penetrate the stratum corneum so that it can’t be washed away with soap and water (this study was conducted in-vivo and cited in Pharmaceutical Skin Penetration Enhancement). We’ve also included an occlusive (caprylic/capric triglyceride) with the humectant to prevent increased TEWL.

Finally, the abrasive nature of the Exfoliating Polish disrupts and micro-perforates the stratum corneum, thereby enhancing penetration. When the product is massaged in, it further enhances penetration. (you’ll get a better result if you don’t add water during this step.)

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:40 pm      Reply with quote
I was resisting for a while, but I have to say, I am really disturbed that the sunscreen is 85$/oz. That's insane! With such an expensive sunscreen, I can't imagine that users are applying enough of it regularly that it's effective.

We're supposed to be using 1/4 teaspoon of sunscreen just on the face to get the full protection that advertised. I'll be generous and suppose that the 1/4 teaspoon also includes the neck and hands. There are 6 teaspoons in an ounce, 6*4=24, which means that the 1 oz is enough sunscreen for about 3 weeks. And that's in the winter, when we don't have to reapply or cover much more than the face and neck.

As for me, it looks like I go through 2 oz of sunscreen a month (and that's in the winter) so I can't even imagine how the zo eclipse sunscreen can be a viable product.

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bethany
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:33 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
bethany wrote:
I am also going to toss out a question for Justin:

The Exfoliating Polish and the Exfoliating Cleanser both contain a number of actives....can you please explain how the actives get absorbed vs. just washed down the drain?


Hi Bethany,

Great question, thanks.

You’re right, some of the ingredients get washed down the drain. Dr. Obagi has formulated the Exfoliating Polish specially to enhance penetration— it all depends on (1) the molecular weight of the ingredients; (2) the use of humectants along with an occlusive agent; and (3) the physical abrasion and stimulation of the skin.

Ingredients with higher molecular weights (like magnesium crystals and sodium bicarbonate) do not penetrate the skin; therefore they get rinsed away. But ingredients with lower molecular weight (like vitamins A, C, and E) are able to penetrate.

A humectant (like glycerin) can penetrate the stratum corneum so that it can’t be washed away with soap and water (this study was conducted in-vivo and cited in Pharmaceutical Skin Penetration Enhancement). We’ve also included an occlusive (caprylic/capric triglyceride) with the humectant to prevent increased TEWL.

Finally, the abrasive nature of the Exfoliating Polish disrupts and micro-perforates the stratum corneum, thereby enhancing penetration. When the product is massaged in, it further enhances penetration. (you’ll get a better result if you don’t add water during this step.)

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.


I knew you would have a great answer on this...thanks!!

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bethany
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Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:51 pm      Reply with quote
Nimue wrote:
I was resisting for a while, but I have to say, I am really disturbed that the sunscreen is 85$/oz. That's insane! With such an expensive sunscreen, I can't imagine that users are applying enough of it regularly that it's effective.

We're supposed to be using 1/4 teaspoon of sunscreen just on the face to get the full protection that advertised. I'll be generous and suppose that the 1/4 teaspoon also includes the neck and hands. There are 6 teaspoons in an ounce, 6*4=24, which means that the 1 oz is enough sunscreen for about 3 weeks. And that's in the winter, when we don't have to reapply or cover much more than the face and neck.

As for me, it looks like I go through 2 oz of sunscreen a month (and that's in the winter) so I can't even imagine how the zo eclipse sunscreen can be a viable product.


Nimue, I definitely use this only on my face...I use a cheaper product everywhere else.

Unfortunately, I really hate wearing sunscreen, even though it is a necessary evil here in Florida. Oclipse feels like I am wearing nothing at all, which means I am more likely to use it. Plus it has not caused me to break out, and has more of a matte-finish which I like.

I agree that it is not the cheapest sunscreen option out there, but at the same time it is not actually JUST a sunscreen....it is also a treatment to stimulate collagen and elastin, a make up primer, an anti-oxidant, and a moisturizer. That saves me a bunch of layers, and from having to buy a bunch of other products.

But I do agree that we need to make sure that we are using the right amount...I am going to actually measure tomorrow and see how I'm doing.

Quote:
Solution:
- Protects against UVA/UVB sun damage to reduce the visible signs of aging and improve skin health
- Stimulates collagen production
- Hydrates and moisturizes
- Smoothes and primes for even makeup application and leaves skin feeling like silk

Features & Benefits:
- Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide: clinically proven non-irritating UVA & UVB blockers.
- Vitamin E: the antioxidant most frequently recommended by dermatologists to fight free radicals and repair damaged skin cells.
- Silicone: lubricates and leaves a soft finish ideal for priming the skin.
- Proprietary Lipopeptide: stimulates collagen and elastin.
- Humectants and Emollients: moisturizing agents.


Editing to add: I just checked the price of another multi-purpose sunscreen that is also a treatment, moisturizer, etc...my derm uses NeoCutis Journee Bio-Restorative Day Cream with PSP SPF 30, and it is $120 for 1 oz. Of course once she told me it contained cultured human fetal skin cells, that kind of ruined it for me. Confused

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/neocutis-journee-bio-rest-p_8752.htm

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Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:40 pm      Reply with quote
Nimue wrote:
I was resisting for a while, but I have to say, I am really disturbed that the sunscreen is 85$/oz. That's insane! With such an expensive sunscreen, I can't imagine that users are applying enough of it regularly that it's effective.

We're supposed to be using 1/4 teaspoon of sunscreen just on the face to get the full protection that advertised. I'll be generous and suppose that the 1/4 teaspoon also includes the neck and hands. There are 6 teaspoons in an ounce, 6*4=24, which means that the 1 oz is enough sunscreen for about 3 weeks. And that's in the winter, when we don't have to reapply or cover much more than the face and neck.

As for me, it looks like I go through 2 oz of sunscreen a month (and that's in the winter) so I can't even imagine how the zo eclipse sunscreen can be a viable product.


I agree that $85 is expensive, but I have to say again that this is the best sunscreen I have ever used.

Your math is dead on, Nimue. I "eyeball" my 1/4 tsp, which I thought I was getting close, but apparently not, as I am still on my first full size of the Oclipse and I think I have probably used it for about 5+ weeks now?

I use 2 pumps for my face and 1 pump for my neck. I also use a topical C for added protection (and have done so with every sunscreen that I use), so even if I am not getting a full 1/4 tsp, I feel confident that I am protected. This is one of the only sunscreens that I have not tanned through, nor freckled through, even while using Nu Derm.

I will continue with the Oclipse. It has surpassed every other sunscreen I have tried, even the european sunscreens, which are supposed to be the best and most protective, which I have always tanned and freckled right through! (And, they are not cheap either!) As always, products are a YMMV, and everyone has to make their own choice.
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