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ZO skin health from Obagi (a new product line4anti aging

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FYIguy
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Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:40 pm      Reply with quote
Hi everyone, I'm back with the next part on moisturizers.

Are all moisturizers equally harmful? Are certain ingredients problematic? Is it true that moisturizers can destroy the natural moisture barrier in your skin?

OK, first let me just make one HUGE point: not all moisturizers are created equally. Generally, they’re quite effective — they make the skin feel soft and smooth. Even the cheap stuff is good at that. They’re not necessarily harmful. In fact, they’re quite benign. It’s the way in which they are used/abused that Dr. Obagi has serious issues with.

So, a few points:
1. There are many ingredients that can work well to provide moisture to the skin from the outside in, or keep moisture from getting out. Some can be simple, some more complex. Believe it or not, Crisco has long been rumored as a “beauty secret” moisturizer (for both skin and hair). It’s cheap; it’s effective; it’s safe; it has been used for post-laser re-surfacing. Of course, it’s not recommended, however. Petrolatum is exceptional at reducing TEWL (5% in a formula can reduce TEWL by 98%). The issue becomes when one ingredient is very effective at one thing, it could leave the door open for something unintended. Many humectants can draw water out of the epidermis which can lead to evaporation (increased TEWL). Too much occlusion does not allow the skin to function correctly (taking occlusion to the extreme, think of what your skin is like after being under a bandaid for two days). It’s all about balance in a formula (just like it is for your skin).
2. Don’t pay too much for a moisturizer. Even though they are easy to formulate and less expensive to manufacture, companies can charge a lot. I saw one online today that normally sells for $199, now available for $69 (or something like that). I can’t reveal the brand name (but it’s one that everyone is familiar with) — but this particular brand also has the highest return rate of any skin care product at one particular NYC boutique retailer. It’s not that the product doesn’t work — it does; it moisturizes - but no moisturizer is worth $199.

So, next I'll be back to tell about the ZO Skin Health Products that have moisturizing properties, what they do beside moisturize, how they fit into the ZO philosophy, and proper ingredient balancing when working with humectants and occlusives.

In the mean time, I hope this helps.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research and Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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red head
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Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:15 pm      Reply with quote
thanks Justin the suspense will kill us but I think it could be something with the initials CDLM Question

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
bethany
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Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:24 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks Justin!!

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bethany
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Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:33 pm      Reply with quote
I placed an order with zoskinhealth.com and got the package of 3 free samples.

They are each in cute little reusable plastic jars with ZO on the lids, and look to contain enough for one usage. The samples were the Exfoliating Polish, the Growth Factor Serum, and the Oclipse sunscreen...3 of my very favorite products!

I will probably save mine for travel. I don't know how long they will stay active though.

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Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:03 pm      Reply with quote
FYIguy wrote:
Petrolatum is exceptional at reducing TEWL (5% in a formula can reduce TEWL by 98%). The issue becomes when one ingredient is very effective at one thing, it could leave the door open for something unintended. Many humectants can draw water out of the epidermis which can lead to evaporation (increased TEWL). Too much occlusion does not allow the skin to function correctly (taking occlusion to the extreme, think of what your skin is like after being under a bandaid for two days). It’s all about balance in a formula (just like it is for your skin).


Justin, how does one determine how much occlusion is too much?
Aiva
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Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:36 am      Reply with quote
Justin, talking about occlusion - then silicones are still bad for the skin??

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Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:40 am      Reply with quote
About the sensitive skin thing:

I don't have sensitive skin. I have normal, healthy skin. But! If anyone asks, I pretend to have sensitive skin because even though my skin is not sensitive I do not want to use potential irritants on my skin. For many products, "sensitive" simply means that it has no added fragrance or colors, which I don't want anyway.

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red head
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Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:54 am      Reply with quote
I have noticed that my hair is getting a bit thin. Could this be from the Obagi Clear or the RetinA/Blender or just hormones adjusting? Had my surgery last year so things go up and down some months. Just wondering

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
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Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:15 am      Reply with quote
There is a little mini review of the Ossential Growth Factor Serum on Truthinaging.com if anyone is interested.
FYIguy
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Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:34 pm      Reply with quote
Why does ZO have products that are moisturizing and use ingredients like glycerin, caprylic/capric triglyceride, etc.?

Dr. Obagi’s issue with the abuse / misuse of moisturizers is based on cellular activity (or lack thereof that can be enhanced by improper moisturizer use). In the ZO Skin Health system, the goal is to wake up the cells and get them functioning properly. Once the cells have been activated and stimulated, the skin is in a position to use the elements of a moisturizer correctly, as a complement to natural moisture instead of a replacement.

He likes to use the analogy of moisturizers being like dessert. They shouldn’t be a substitute for the main meal. So that begs the question, does Dr. Obagi like/eat dessert? Yes, he does, but only after a balanced meal, and even then his consumption of desserts is very moderate. He thinks that dessert should help to digest the dinner - so her prefers fresh citrus. For example, when Donna eats dinner with him, her choice of dessert is limited - she gets to pick whatever kind of sorbet she wants, but usually it’s lemon, lemon or lemon. And only a very small portion. Tiramisu? Not a chance. Strawberry cheesecake? No way.

My point: be it dessert - or moisturizer - it should do more than just be a “sweet” - it should serve a higher purpose. And that’s why he developed the Calm and Nourish products.

With this in mind, let’s look at some details of the Ommerse products:

Ommerse Daily Renewal Crème: aside from delivering nicely balanced moisturizing / barrier repair using a combination of humectants + occlusive + emollient (hylauronic acid + lecithin + isopropyl palmitate), Ommerse Daily Renewal cream reduces irritation and inflammation from the two oat and one Canadian Willowherb extracts. Additionally, Phytosomes aid in reducing UV damage while Oxysomes provide excellent antioxidants (Vitamins C & E) via a liposomal delivery system. Lastly, retinol entrapped in liposomes to prevent photodegradation delivers the key ingredient to “waking up” cells. The fact that he introduced retinol to a daytime recovery product is part of his philosophy that the skin needs a constant supply of retinol. As you probably know, it’s very unusual for daytime products to include retinol.

Ommerse Overnight Recovery Crème: also delivering a balanced moisturizing approach with humectants and occlusives, Ommerse Overnight Recovery Crème incorporates the Canadian Willowherb extract in addition to a fruit extract for reducing redness and inflammation. Ultrasomes are included to stimulate DNA repair, which is enhanced by the lipsomally delivered retinol. Lastly the sunflower oil aids in decreasing the skin’s flakiness and roughness and the biosaccharide gum-4 creates a “second skin” to protect against oxidants and pollutants.

Why are they called Calm & Nourish?
Any Obagi product needs to work/function - my guess is that he will never develop a product that just feels good, smells nice, and hydrates the skin. It’s just not his style.

How to break the moisturizer addiction?
Get the cells activated, get them turning over. Active cells will pull moisture from the body as the main source and only look to outside sources when there is a deficiency. When your cells are active, they’ll behave like when they were younger, and your skin will look younger/healthier.

I hope this helps.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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bethany
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Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:12 pm      Reply with quote
Justin, thanks for the continued wealth of information. I didn't realize that the Night Recovery Creme had Ultrasomes in it. (why don't they mention that on the website?)

My one outstanding question: Should we be using the Ommerse products daily, or only if we think we need them?

Thanks!

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rileygirl
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Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:20 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you, Justin. Again, great information.

One question, when you say to get the cells activated and get them turning over, how long does that usually take? Are we talking weeks, months, etc?
red head
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Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:47 pm      Reply with quote
Listening also what about the Growth Factor Serum

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
m1rox
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Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:14 pm      Reply with quote
Justin: is it okay to use the Ommerse Daily renewal cream in the day time after using retin A at night? Would it overload the skin with too much retinoid product?
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:14 am      Reply with quote
Can this line be used together with SkinBiology CP Serum?
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Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:29 am      Reply with quote
m1rox wrote:
otherloulou: I think the chap from ZOSkinhealth mentioned you can get the products at Harrods.


Ooooh mlrox, just seen this. Thanks so much for that info.

rileygirl I will definitely let you know how I get on... It sounds like a dream. Proper feel-good sunblock, wow!

LL

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FYIguy
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:00 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Bethany,

The frequency of application really depends on why you’re using Ommerse. Like I’ve mentioned, they’re not simple moisturizers – they’re complex formulations that reduce irritation - provide anti-oxidants - stimulate cellular turnover – stimulate DNA repair – reduce flakiness and roughness – provide a second skin barrier against oxidants and pollutants. There’s nothing wrong with using them daily, but your skin may not need it. Based on how you treat your skin, twice a week should be sufficient. And even though they’re complex products, my only request is not to use them to the exclusion of other skin care products that stimulate, hydrate, calm and nourish your skin.

I hope this helps.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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FYIguy
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:03 pm      Reply with quote
Hi m1rox,

Ommerse Daily Renewal Crème is a perfect complement for AM use when using Retin-A at night. There is enough retinol in there to help, but not to overload, especially with all the calming extracts I noted a few posts ago.

I hope this helps.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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FYIguy
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:06 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Rileygirl,

Cellular turnover takes a few weeks to really get the process rolling. The goal is to get the cells turning over every 30 days or so, like they did when they were younger. Usually within 4-6 weeks of consistent retinol use in conjunction with some exfoliation the cells will begin turning over on a more regular basis.

I hope this helps.


Best regards,
Justin Morgan
Vice President of Research & Development
ZO Skin Health, Inc.

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Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:41 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks for the reply, Justin.
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:58 pm      Reply with quote
Very Happy
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:58 pm      Reply with quote
Justin, if I were to use the Growth Factor Serum and the Daily Renewal Creme in the morning which one would I use first?
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:42 pm      Reply with quote
Jom, I believe you would put the GFS on first, and then the Daily Renewal Creme.
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:35 pm      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
I have noticed that my hair is getting a bit thin. Could this be from the Obagi Clear or the RetinA/Blender or just hormones adjusting? Had my surgery last year so things go up and down some months. Just wondering


I think this is more likely to be due to hormones. I don't think either the Clear or RetinA/Blender are supposed to have this effect.
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Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:50 pm      Reply with quote
m1rox wrote:
red head wrote:
I have noticed that my hair is getting a bit thin. Could this be from the Obagi Clear or the RetinA/Blender or just hormones adjusting? Had my surgery last year so things go up and down some months. Just wondering


I think this is more likely to be due to hormones. I don't think either the Clear or RetinA/Blender are supposed to have this effect.


I had to stop using Retin-A because I started losing hair on my scalp, body hair, eyebrow hair... The problems started after I had been on Retin-A for two months. When I did some research on the Internet, I found that I was not the only one experiencing hair loss as a side effect from tretinoin/Retin-A.

I do believe that the vast majority of people can safely use Retin-A without fearing hair loss, but users should be aware that it might be a possible side effect.

My hair and eyebrows have slowly been growing back since I stopped using Retin-A in September this year. I will never use it again.

red head - if your hair loss is obvious, you have not changed anything else in your routine (diet supplements etc), and you have no other symptoms of illness or thyroid problems, I think Retin-A might be the culprit.

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