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zoskinhealth
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:17 pm      Reply with quote
I'm happy that you're getting good counsel from Bethany and rileygirl, and repeat Dr. Obagi's recommendation that it is best to terminate all Obagi products (and any others) that may be causing redness. Did you get his advice that I had posted, recommending that you terminate all products? the one exception to that would probably be--it's always important to wear sunscreen. I don't think there's any reason to suspect that the Oclipse would cause tiny pimples, but that being said, if you're unhappy with the product for any reason, please return it for a full credit to your account. Do you still have a packing slip that includes the address? If not, let me know. And I agree with bethany and rileygirl, please see a professional that you respect.

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dm26
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:05 pm      Reply with quote
thanks for the advice guys. i actually have an appointment with my esthetician on tuesday so hopefully i can resolve these issues.
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:20 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
Oh, I am sorry to hear your troubles, dm26. After dropping the exfoderm way down, how red are you? I think if you are still very red, you could be having some type of reaction to one of the obagi products. I actually wonder if you should stop the whole system and see how your skin is looking after not using any of the products. Can you see a derm/esthetician soon? You really need to have someone look at your skin, so they can give you the best advice. You are going in for scar revision treatment right?

As for the MD Forte, their products are very good. For you with oily, acne prone skin, I would check on the MD Forte website, as I am sure they have recommendations for products for your skin type. If I had to guess, I would say for you to start with the Lotion 1, but I don't have oily/acne prone skin, so it is really hard for me to recommend anything for you.

I sure hope your skin gets better, dm26. (If you think you are breaking out from the ZO sunscreen, can you return it?)



rileygirl, how is the sunscreen form md forte?? does it leave a white cast or leave skin greasy-looking?
red head
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:58 pm      Reply with quote
I had to stop 2 dys ago my NuDerm maintenance. All of a sudden my face turned bright red and hurt like you know what. I was using the Exforderm every third night as well and the tret/blender the same way not on the same days. Everytime I put the exforderm or anything on my face it burned. Iam taking a break until my skin calms down. My sun damage is gone and that was my main concern and my skin is even toned. I will still look into the jump start kit unless you guys think I may be just to sensative I was fine during the initial 18 weeks but maintenance just is not working out. Cleanser/toner/clear/ss all fine not tret/blender or exforderm. Thanks for any feedback that you guys and Donna can give-Dale

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
rileygirl
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:17 pm      Reply with quote
Dm26, I can't tell you about the MD Forte sunscreen, as I have never used it! Sorry.

red head, so you mean that after a while on maintenance you started getting red, or did you start a new full cycle and then get red? I honestly would not add anything right now until you figure out what is causing the redness all of a sudden. Have you been in the sun more than usual or anything out of the ordinary, trying new products, etc?
zoskinhealth
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:42 pm      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
I had to stop 2 dys ago my NuDerm maintenance. All of a sudden my face turned bright red and hurt like you know what. I was using the Exforderm every third night as well and the tret/blender the same way not on the same days. Everytime I put the exforderm or anything on my face it burned. Iam taking a break until my skin calms down. My sun damage is gone and that was my main concern and my skin is even toned. I will still look into the jump start kit unless you guys think I may be just to sensative I was fine during the initial 18 weeks but maintenance just is not working out. Cleanser/toner/clear/ss all fine not tret/blender or exforderm. Thanks for any feedback that you guys and Donna can give-Dale


First let me admit that I'm not an expert on the NuDerm regimen, but I did ask their National Trainer and the guy responsible for clinical protocols. So here I'm just the conduit for information. Sometimes stopping the program completely can cause the skin to react, but a transition to maintenance should not cause any problem. They agree with rileygirl--hopefully you've continued with sunscreen and not introduced any new products. So the recommendations that I were given are:

1. Since you're a redhead, are you also fair skinned? Frequently Exfoderm is not recommended for fair-skinned redheads, so you should stop using that at this time.

2. Depending on the severity of the redness, stop using the Retin-A/Blender for about a week. You're right; it's time to give your skin a break.

3. The Cleanser, Toner, Clear and Sunscreen are all OK.

4. Consider getting some Ommerse Daily Renewal Creme to calm the reaction. (of course, by the time you get it, hopefully your reaction will have already cleared up).

5. You can begin the Jumpstart Kit after your skin has calmed down (because of the high concentration of retinol, you shouldn't introduce it until the redness has cleared up)

Hope that helps!

Donna

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red head
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:56 am      Reply with quote
Since last we spoke this is good info. Once the skin has calmed down should I just go into the Jumbstart kit slowly and not use the clear tret/blender and just use this protocal for maintenance? My skin is calming down still very dry on the cheeks and chin but no products since Friday. Yes Iam am fair to medium my issue is very sensative skin. So my question would be the new system for maintenance slowly or just pieces and still use the Clean/tret/Blender every 3rd day and no exforderm ever again (it hurts) Thanks Dale I will pm you with my phone number if you want to call to clear things up

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
rileygirl
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:32 am      Reply with quote
red head, just keep in mind, no blender/RA or Clear and your pigmentation issues (if you had any) will slowly revert back to previous. Just wanted to through that in there for you to think about. Very Happy
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:47 am      Reply with quote
no I wanted to keep the Clear Blender/Tret just do away with the exforderm that is what is killing my skin and maybe add something from the new system how does that sound I just can't use the exforderm today is the 1st day that my face is not sore and bright red even using it every 3rd day just to put it on burns

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
red head
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:54 am      Reply with quote
what one or 2 items from the new line would you choose when I run out of cleanser/toner I have no moisterizer and I do love the Healthy Skin SS and have 2 tubes of that

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
rileygirl
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:15 am      Reply with quote
red head wrote:
no I wanted to keep the Clear Blender/Tret just do away with the exforderm that is what is killing my skin and maybe add something from the new system how does that sound I just can't use the exforderm today is the 1st day that my face is not sore and bright red even using it every 3rd day just to put it on burns


Ok, I understand. Sorry, I did not get it! Yep, the exfoderm is a killer for a lot of people due to the redness factor and burning. I definitely would not use it if you are having that reaction.

ETA, maybe you could try one of the cleansers from ZO when you run out of your cleanser/toner or you could just get more obagi cleanser/toner if you like them and do well with them. You could possibly check in to one of the Ommerse products (under the calm and nourish section) for your moisturizer or the Daily Power defense (I am thinking of adding this one in for myself!). If the obagi sunscreen is working for you, and you have plenty, no need to spend more money for another one!
zoskinhealth
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:33 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
red head wrote:
no I wanted to keep the Clear Blender/Tret just do away with the exforderm that is what is killing my skin and maybe add something from the new system how does that sound I just can't use the exforderm today is the 1st day that my face is not sore and bright red even using it every 3rd day just to put it on burns


Ok, I understand. Sorry, I did not get it! Yep, the exfoderm is a killer for a lot of people due to the redness factor and burning. I definitely would not use it if you are having that reaction.


ETA, maybe you could try one of the cleansers from ZO when you run out of your cleanser/toner or you could just get more obagi cleanser/toner if you like them and do well with them. You could possibly check in to one of the Ommerse products (under the calm and nourish section) for your moisturizer or the Daily Power defense (I am thinking of adding this one in for myself!). If the obagi sunscreen is working for you, and you have plenty, no need to spend more money for another one!


Rileygirl said exactly what I was thinking. I agree on the cleanser not being the most important, and totally agree that Ossential Daily Power Defense (use this on alternate days--it's important to keep your skin cells active) and Ommerse AM (to keep your skin calm) are the most important. Since you won't be using the Ossential DPD every day, it should last several months. With this combination, you definitely should not have more irritation.

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red head
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:30 am      Reply with quote
thanks sounds like a plan

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red head
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:54 pm      Reply with quote
WHY IS THIS A DIFFERENT NUDERM SYSTEM THEN WE HAVE BEEN USING. NOW IAM MORE CONFUSED. FROM A NEW POST

Iam wondering if any of you ladies have advice for me? I have just begun Dr. Obagi's NuDerm 6 week cycle, and will have a Blue Peel at the end of this process. In the spirit of sharing and experimentation , here is my daily regimen:
AM
Exfoliating Cleanser - ZO
Polishing Scrub - ZO
TE Pads - ZO
Clear - NuDerm
Oclipse - ZO
Daily Power Defense - ZO
PM
Exfoliating Cleanser - ZO
TE Pads - ZO
Clear - NuDerm
Complex A + Blender - NuDerm
Ossential Growth Factor Serum - ZO

I met with Dr. Obagi on Saturday afternoon, picked-up my products and jumped right into it that night. It is now Monday morning and I look a bit pink; I'm feeling positive as I can already see that this is going to be a real skin-changing experience. I have fair skin with some faint spots, rosacea, good tone and elasticity with no loss of volume - that's Dr. Obagi's assessment. I will be having an IPL treatment in a couple of weeks to address the small broken capillaries - and possibly again after my Blue Peel, if needed. Thus far, I have been happy with the ZO Daily Power Defense in the morning (I fell asleep before applying the Growth Serum). It took the edge off the "heat" this morning.
I've had some small peels (and Starlux) - but never needed anesthesia for a procedure. Has anyone else out there had a Blue Peel? What kind of things am I in store for in the next 6 weeks? Considering that Dr. Obagi says, "More cream, more repair", how aggressive did you get with the cream application?

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
bethany
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:12 pm      Reply with quote
It looks like the above post from Red Head is actually from Petalutha on another thread.

I was starting to worry about Red Head until I figured that out...

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=30678

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red head
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:16 pm      Reply with quote
no sorry I don't know how to put a post into a box. Iam just confused since this is not the NuDerm that most of us were on.

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:21 pm      Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure she's combining 2 seperate systems to make her own regimen. Maybe the Dr. prescribed it this way for her to use. I know there is a standard Obagi regimen but there are some people who are told by their Derms to use the NuDerm products a little differently than the standard regimen. I guess it all depends on your skin. Also this Zo line is relatively new compared to the NuDerm line. The NuDerm line is considered prescription, RX, because of the two medicines it involves, Trention and Hydroquinone. The Zo line is strictly over the counter. It doesn't contain any prescription medicines.

I'm currently on week 9 of the regular NuDerm regimen. If I decide to try the Zo products I will probably choose to use them after my 18 weeks are over and I would use the Zo products while using NuDerm for maintenance. I'm thinking NuDerm 2x to 3x's a week and Zo on the other days. I could always combine them too like Petelutha is doing. It depends how my skin responds.
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:25 pm      Reply with quote
Redhead, to post in a box means you are quoting the original poster. To do this just click on quote tab and the post you are referring to will automaticlly be copied in a box above whatever it is you'd like to say. I hope I described this OK so you understand me.
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:28 pm      Reply with quote
keli13 wrote:
Redhead, to post in a box means you are quoting the original poster. To do this just click on quote tab and the post you are referring to will automaticlly be copied in a box above whatever it is you'd like to say. I hope I described this OK so you understand me.


Adding that the quote tab is on the right side above the post. Smile

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rileygirl
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:45 pm      Reply with quote
Yep, I went searching to see what red head was talking about, and finally came across the other post! Very Happy

ETA: After re-reading the other thread, I am under the assumption that they are just prepping her skin to ready her for the blue peel.
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Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:57 pm      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
Dm26, I can't tell you about the MD Forte sunscreen, as I have never used it! Sorry.

red head, so you mean that after a while on maintenance you started getting red, or did you start a new full cycle and then get red? I honestly would not add anything right now until you figure out what is causing the redness all of a sudden. Have you been in the sun more than usual or anything out of the ordinary, trying new products, etc?



rileygirl,
i actually plan to take a break from obagi, maybe for a week. after this break i plan to use md forte in the morning and continue with my clear, blender and tretinoin at night. any advice on this? do md forte products cause any kind of initial irritation?
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:28 am      Reply with quote
dm26, are you planning to take a break when you finish the cycle before going on maintenance, or are you planning on taking a break now? Makes a difference.

If you take a break from Obagi after you finish your cycle and want to continue obagi for maintenance, then you would use the Clear 3 times a week, the blender/RA anywhere from 3-5 times a week depending on how your pigmentation issues are. You will have to play with the RA/blender and see what is the minimum amount per week you can use the products and not have any pigmentation issues come back.

I don't have sensitive skin at all and the MD Forte 1 was very nice feeling to me. But, everyone reacts differently and you may have some initial burning with it. Just make sure you continue with a good sunscreen, whichever one you use!
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:58 pm      Reply with quote
Its now available online at Nordstroms the full line in case you want to order from them or from the website.

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Turned 50 in Feb 09 skin looks and feels like early 40's use SS everyday and oil free foundation. Normal/combo sensative skin WHAT A COMBO
bethany
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Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:09 am      Reply with quote
I already posted this on the Product Review thread, but though I would cross-post here as well as this is an informative article.

bethany wrote:
I thought this was an interesting article on the ZO line...it really underscore's Dr. O's committment to the product line.

Here are a couple of interesting quotes:

Quote:

"What I want to do is launch an awareness campaign," he said, suggesting that women have made it easy for the skin-care industry to take advantage of them by inventing the phenomenon of "sensitive or delicate skin" that can only be addressed with "special" products.

"Scientifically, that's the most stupid thing ever said about skin," he said. "A baby's skin was made to tolerate everything, and no child or man has ever complained about sensitive skin, only women.

"Most women don't know their skin type, anything about their skin, so when they go and buy something, they're buying blind."

The self-treating often exacerbates problems by throwing the skin's natural balance of water, protein and lipids off-kilter.

"I could have started a consumer line 15 years ago, but there was not enough technology out there to help us. Nothing would be effective; nothing was going to work and I could not work on something I don't believe in."

His aim is for healthy skin with all the attributes of a baby's skin, in which all cells are active and producing elastin and collagen, which give it vitality. He said the skin cells start losing function at 25, and topical solutions thus far have only helped to make skin feel better, without addressing the underlying breakdown.

"Whatever you put on skin, if the cells are sleeping, it's not going to work," he said.

The secret of ZO is retinol -- a form of vitamin A that reawakens the skin cells -- in a 1 percent concentration, 10 times the industry standard. He said a minimum 0.7 percent concentration is needed to have an effect.

"Retinol is a problematic substance utilized very poorly in skin-care products because of its negative features," he said. "In high concentrations it causes irritation, burns, makes the skin turn red and itchy. It breaks down when you mix it with water or oil. It's difficult to formulate, which is why the industry started to use peptides, lipoic acid, Q10."

Obagi's research led him to encapsulate retinol in a way that makes it effective without adverse side effects.

"I didn't have to do this. I don't need the money, but this is a legacy line that I'm doing for the love of skin. I was a pathologist before I became a dermatologist. I've studied skin when it was alive, dead, cancerous, burned and I've always been amazed by how it's so capable of renewing itself.

"All great ideas come from a simple idea, but it takes observation, love and someone who would work hard to find answers."

http://starbulletin.com/2008/08/21/features/story02.html

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rileygirl
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Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:49 pm      Reply with quote
Great article, Bethany. Thanks for posting. I have always loved Dr. Obagi's professional line and I am quite pleased with the ZO line thus far!
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