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EC413
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Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:37 pm      Reply with quote
Ok, well for some reason I was sent ANOTHER 8oz tub of Ascorbic Acid Crystals in the mail. I don't know if it was a mistake by the seller on eBay, but whatever!

Anyways, how long does Ascorbic Acid last? I now have a full pound of it. I'm going to have to be making Vitamin C serum A LOT...I'm afraid it will go bad, no?

By the way, I can definitely tell a difference in my skin within days of using this serum. My skin looks amazing, and the color has completely changed. My complexion just looks healthier.
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Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:12 pm      Reply with quote
I have a question. I am rolling my skin with a 1.mm dermaroller and applying an A and D ointment afterwards. Vitamin C helps to build collagen but you can only use an oil based C after rolling, not LAA. Do you think it would work for me to add an oil based C to my A and D ointment for post roll application? Any idea how much I should add or what kind I should use?

Here are the ingredients in the A and D ointment. I know, I know, it contains lanolin. I, personally, am not allergic so it is working well for me.

Retinol acetate: 48 000 IU in 30 g
Vit. D2: 9 000 IU in 30 g
The ointment base is white wax, natural lanolin and white vaseline.

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Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:44 pm      Reply with quote
A very dear friend who knows I love DIY emailed the following recipe to me just recently. I haven't tried it as of yet as I just got a list of goodies together to order. I just thought I would share for those who would like to try something new and different. 
The following will yeild just about 2 ounces of serum. 

3+3/4 Tsp Hazelnut Oil 
3+3/4 Tsp Jojoba Oil 
3+3/4 Tsp Olive Oil 
3/4 Tsp  Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate
1/8 Tsp Vitamin E Oil 

Mix all oils together add the vitamin E mix then add the TA (vit. c)  pour into a dark glass bottle. I would store in the fridge just to be on the safe side! 

Enjoy
DM  

Tonia,
I have finally been making and using this recipe and love the results I prefer this lipid soluable form of C best, just my opinion!

HTH
DM

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DarkMoon
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Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:51 pm      Reply with quote
Here is some info from Bulkactives site but lotioncrafters also carries it.

Appearance: Colorless to pale yellow liquid CAS# 183476-82-6
INCI Name: Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate Chem. Name: Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate
Suggested percentage: .5% to 7%
Solubility: excellent solubility in carrier oils, mineral oils, ethanol, silicone.  Insoluble in water, propylene glycol, glycerin.
Inorganic Organic balance (IOB) : 0.274 HLB: 2.74 (IOB 0.274 x 10 = HLB 2.74)
 
This oil soluble product can easily be added to a base cream or lotion.
It can also be emulsified with Gelmaker PLUS and a 1% HA mixture to create a very light 'serum'.
Combine with L-ascorbic acid in a silicone base for an Anhydrous Vitamin C combo.

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oranges
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Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:02 pm      Reply with quote
lotioncrafters carries it too? I thought I looked and did not see it. Hmmmm.
DarkMoon
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Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:26 pm      Reply with quote
oranges wrote:
lotioncrafters carries it too? I thought I looked and did not see it. Hmmmm.


They carry it it's listed under vitamins and nutrients! Hopefully this should link directly to the product page!

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/lotioncrafter-premium-ingredients-vitamins-nutrients/

HTH
DM Smile

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Tonia
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:48 am      Reply with quote
DarkMoon, Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You answered most of my questions. You even gave me the recommended percentage.

I'll give it a try and post the results.

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Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:52 am      Reply with quote
Tonia wrote:
DarkMoon, Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You answered most of my questions. You even gave me the recommended percentage.

I'll give it a try and post the results.


You are welcome Tonia, I am glad it is helpful! Smile Have fun and enjoy!

DM

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Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:06 am      Reply with quote
Tonia,

Is your purpose for rolling - product penetration or collagen regeneration? In other words - short or long needles?

BF
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:31 am      Reply with quote
BF, I use both short and long needles. I use the short ones several times per week and the 1mm once a month. Right now I'm using the A and D ointment for both but I would like something with more vitamins in it, especially for the short needles. If I can formulate one product that works for both, even better.

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Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:35 pm      Reply with quote
I have 1 oz. of the L-Ascorbic Acid Ultrafine Powder from Lotioncrafter that has never been opened (still sealed with tape). I'd be happy to give it to the person sending me the first PM (no charge attached). I don't remember when I ordered it but I do know it was less than a year ago. I really don't know why I ordered it because I have another bottle I'm working on. I think I thought I was going to use more than I did.

ETA: IT'S BEEN TAKEN!!
mariansc
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Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:32 pm      Reply with quote
Sodium lactate is a natural humectant, (draws moisture to itself) and is frequently used as a substitute for glycerin in lotions and creams. It's also used as a preservative in cosmetics and well as food.

http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.ca/sodium-lactate-preservative-p-1813.html

I've been meaning to get back to this, took me a while...but...Actually, I did do more research and I also went back to the pharmacist who gave me the original information regarding sodium lactate. I also, called the company who also told me I could substitute sodium lactate for the glycerin. Just put in google and search sodium lactate vs glycerin, here is one post. It is used in cosmetic formulations abound.

Sodium Lactate

Sodium Lactate, a 60% concentration in water, is the sodium salt of natural L(+)-Lactic Acid, produced through the fermentation of sugar, an AHA that occurs everywhere in nature and is a natural moisturizing factor (NMF) constituent of skin. Sodium Lactate is a superior moisturizer, increasing the moisture content of skin by up to 90%. When compared to other commonly used moisturizers, it's water holding capacity is second only to Sodium Hyaluronate (Hyaluronic Acid), as referenced by the table below.

Sodium Lactate is an edible material that has been used for decades in the meat-packing industry because it effectively forces cells to hold water.

It is a mild, multifunctional ingredient that offers the following benefits in formulations:

•Reduces irritation potentail and increases efficacy of Alpha and Beta Hydroxy Acids
•Makes oils and butters less greasy and more moisturizing because it lengthens the carbon chain of oils
•Significantly increases and accelerates the action (particularly the skin lightening action) of Vitamin C and its derivatives
•Antimicrobial action helps facilitate product preservation
•In production of bar soaps, use of Sodium Lactate will result in bigger yield, faster cure times, and improved product aesthetics/performance
•Having a very slick, emollient, almost oily feel, Sodium Lactate can be used to reduce tack and improve skin feel of aqueous systems in which oils or esters could not be used
•Because of it's water binding capacity and emollient feel, makes a fabulous component of salon "cutting lotions" or detanglers
•Dramatically improved moisture content of skin even when utilized in rinse-off products.
TABLE ONE:: Water Holding Capacity of Several Moisturizers:

•Sodium Hyaluronate:: 388.
•Sodium Lactate:: 84.
•Sodium PCA:: 60.
•Glycerin:: 40.
•Sorbitol:: 21.
http://www.ingredientstodiefor.com/item.php?item_id=145&page=1&category_id=29




Kassy_A wrote:
mariansc wrote:
Can someone tell me what your ph level was when you made the Vitamin C serum...C+E+Ferulic. I posted before, and thinking it might get overlooked, so I am posting it again.

Just wondering if anyone has made this, and what your ph level was? I added the ferulic acid to the serum I was already using a vitamin c serum, and made too batches, and my ph level is way up there at 3.8-9, took me forever to get my ph level within the range of my old c serum (which works perfectly for me) of 2.5. I didn't put any oils in it.

I was able to get the ph down, to were I wanted it, with using citric acid. Thankfully, I have a whole bag on hand, and the lady where I purchased it from, told me how much to use, without losing much of my actives.

I'v made many of of a DIY, and have never had this happen. I thought maybe my ph strips were bad, or something. But, when I used the chart to test other household products, the strip came back perfect.

Do you think not using SKB, and using another emollient would make that much difference?

Thanks a bunch.


I answered your query at another forum when you asked about switching ingredients, guess you didn't see it..

Long story short is your use of "sodium lactate" (alkaline) is what screwed your serum up.. Save this stuff for soap making, or used in an IV drip as an electrolyte and fluid replenisher to combat acidosis.. Laughing

Please be sure to do a little research on the DIY websites for compatible ingredients, so you don't harm your skin. Or, just try to stick with a DIY recipe *as posted*.

Oh, and yes, vitamin E is most assuredly an oil, so I'm not sure what you meant when you said; "Even my vitamin E has no oil in it. Someone told me skincentuals vitamin e was water soluable, so I went with that, and it seems to work great!"

Good luck!
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Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:51 pm      Reply with quote
Mariansc - sounds interesting to me! Thanks for posting.

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sister sweets
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Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:55 pm      Reply with quote
thanks Mariansc - Did it say the Ph value?

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Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:03 pm      Reply with quote
mariansc,

That sounds really great! Thanks from me as well, always great to have new recipes posted! Smile

DM

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Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:10 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
thanks Mariansc - Did it say the Ph value?


The pH is 7.2, which is the reason why Marian had so much trouble with her C serum... It simply isn't compatible with it.

Sodium Lactate is often used in cosmetics to 'neutralize' acids and also to increase the pH value... Wouldn't want to do either of those to your vitamin C... Shock

Could be useful in a DIY strong AHA cream though, to help increase the pH up to 3.5


ETA: What new recipe? Guess I missed that... Laughing

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
sister sweets
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Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:14 pm      Reply with quote
Well, that explains it. Nice ingredient; when in the right formulation.

Was there a new recipe? I think I missed it.

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Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:20 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
mariansc,

That sounds really great! Thanks from me as well, always great to have new recipes posted! Smile

DM



???? Did you mean the recipe she changed and had a nightmare adjusting the pH with?

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
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Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:24 pm      Reply with quote
Yep.

What new recipe? Do you mean the old one that didn't work?

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Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:19 am      Reply with quote
If it's not to be used in Vitamin C, why does the blurb say:

•Significantly increases and accelerates the action (particularly the skin lightening action) of Vitamin C and its derivatives

Can't we discuss something new without being so snippy? Perhaps someone could email Ingredients to Die For and ask for an opinion about putting it into a standard Vitamin C Serum.

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Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:59 am      Reply with quote
I assumed she worked her recipe out. I was trying to encourage a member, but......

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Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:43 am      Reply with quote
From some very quick research, it seems that Sodium Lactate is not only a humectant but is also a skin lightener. For that reason, it can be combined with Vitamin C (also a skin lightener) for this purpose.

Here's some blurb on combining Sodium Lactate with Vitamin C for skin lightening:

http://www.in-cosmeticsasia.com/files/pres_wkshp1_formulation_of_skin_whitening_products.pdf

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Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:06 am      Reply with quote
Thanks Kelilu! Great study, very helpful and informative! Smile

DM

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Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:08 am      Reply with quote
It wasn't a nightmare at all. I just asked why the ph was off, I was simply experimenting. After doing more research, I found out why.

Your serum is great, but for me I had to make some changes. I live in a very high humidity area, and I can't use hyluaronic acid in that concentration and glycerin is just too sticky. Vodka sucks the life out of my skin. Vitamin E gives me contact dermatitis because of the soy in it, I had to replace it as well. I just asked a question, didn't want to offend anyone, but it seems no matter what, I am going to offend. Your serum is great, I just wanted to tweak it, and I thought there were some people who could help is all. I have learned not to ask questions here, or on another board, because it is either a certain way with people or no way. As long as the PH is above 3, in a l ascorbic acid serum it can be used, that is a fact. I am living proof that it can be used with l ascorbic acid, and with success. sigh

Kassy_A wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
mariansc,

That sounds really great! Thanks from me as well, always great to have new recipes posted! Smile

DM



???? Did you mean the recipe she changed and had a nightmare adjusting the pH with?
mariansc
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:10 am      Reply with quote
I did work my receipe out Dark Moon and thank you and others for the positive comments.

Okay, I am not about to get into a pee pee match here, of who is wrong/right. I know for a fact sodium lactate can be used with l-ascorbic acid. example cellbone uses it in their l ascorbic acid serum, as long as that ph is above 3 it's fine! It's all in the chemistry.

The formulator that I purchased the sodium lactate from, said it could be combined, and after calling back and given them the info that Kassey stated months ago, they continued to tell me me that it can be used with l ascorbic acid! I've called several professionals, pharmacist/compouder, I even called a chemistry professor at our local university. They all said it can be combined with l ascorbic acid.

Like the formulator told me, I can talk blue to others all day long, some people are just set on one way, it's pointless. I know what I was told, and I know by self formulating that it works.

I've got pages and pages of notes, and it would take forever to list the why you can.

Many companies put it in their vitamin c formulas, just do a search and you will see.
Ex. corrective skincare, cellbone, c10 serum. I'm just saying it can be done, and it is okay to substitue some ingredients for another.
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