Opinion Time - polling the Argileine(sp) products
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free skin care · Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:08 am

I am noticing that in a few weeks my Alpha Derma CE will be nearing its end, and I was debating on whether to reorder.

My findings after about 1.5 months, are that my crows feet have softened, and maybe even my forehead furrows. I didn't see a difference on my lip lines and the crinkle lines on either side of my nose.

For those who have used both - did you like Relaxaline better, did it do more? Or did the Alpha Derm work better? To throw another line in the mix, did anyone use Seattle Skin's Argileine product and see better results there?

Believe me, I'd rather spend $36 than $99 - but I do want to keep with some sort of program. I have a little bit of time before I have to order - actually I'm supposed to be shut off from spending for the month of October - but was looking for feedback.

Thanks! Laughing

Maria

free skin care · Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:58 am

Hi Mariav,

I just noticed AlphaDermas new offer. I too am ready to reorder and $200.00 is a lot for me right now. I was a bit confused about the offer so I called the company. Here is how it works:

You can get on a monthly auto ship program and get the 1oz. size for $39.95 reg. $59.95. You can cancel at anytime. I guess the company will call you the first time to be sure (new customer) like the product and want to continue. The person I spoke to said you can cancel autoship at any time by calling. I found the new offer confusing. This offer just went up and they need to adjust it a bit.

I might go this way. I have not tried relaxaline but love AD. I use AD on my whole face and neck Laughing

. I find the 1oz. goes a long way to last a month.

As far as the lines from nose to mouth: are you just putting AD on the line? I have noticed a big difference in those lines. You have those lines (in my case) from a bit of cheek sagging. I make sure I really massage it in. Use an upward motion on whole cheek out to the hairline.

free skin care · Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:58 am

Maria, I would vote for relaxaline, though I am gonna try the diannayvonne stuff as I'm getting other stuff from her. I found very little difference in terms of deep line reduction when comparing the two, but I felt my skin was dryer and getting more crepey lines from the ADCE. I think that my skin loves the hyaluronic acid in relaxaline Smile

free skin care · Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:28 am

I prefer the relaxaline. Not sure about the CE I am using that on one side of face and esthers secret serum on other and I cannot decide which is working better. I think I am leaning towards the esther. Although I feel a bit guilty as the CE was a freebie. But I know others out there love the CE. Confused

free skin care · Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:05 pm

I love my relaxaline. Cannot ever part with it now. I did use the Seattle serum first but I found their customer service to be a bit lax. I ordered a bottle and the top was cracked when it got to me. They refused to replace it, said it was probably "fine" and they would put "goodies" in my next order! I was pretty shocked to say the least. All I needed was the dropper top...it was odd. That said, the formula seemed fine to me. I changed to Relaxaline when I saw the price, tried it out and saw that it worked just as well. As for the AlphaDerma - haven't tried it. I am completely leery of the "we'll ship you one every month and bill your credit card" offers. That's just me, though. Good luck!

free skin care · Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:41 pm

Hi,

I really hate to say this because of the awesome customer service and the free sample I got with Ad but I am not impressed enough to reorder Sad

.

Based on all the reviews I have read here if I do order a product like this again it will be the relaxaline. Ian was so good to me but personally it just isnt worth the price.

Sherri

free skin care · Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:18 am

not tried the relaxaline though I would if I could sort out paypal.

What I epecially like about the ADCE is that it's an all in one.

I don't have to apply extra vit.c (I can if I want as I've still got my skinceuticals open) it also contains the DMAE & alpha lipoic acid I liked in the Perricone product but wouldn't pay for.

So I don't need to buy four or five products when one will do.

(I should state I've just reordered with a free bottle of the skin prep so I'll see how a longer applicaion works out)

free skin care · Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:15 pm

I would be really curious to know what types of skin relaxaline and AD are effective on. I'm thinking that one might be better on younger or oilier skin, or older/drier skin. I've really noticed changes in my face and neck, especially after I turned 50. My skin used to be pretty normal, but now it has gotten much dryer on my face and thinner on my neck. Of course I've been looking a lot closer

since I've been on this forum. The more I look, the more I see...I can see how this forum gets to be addictive. So anyway ladies, if you don't mind, say what your age is and what skin-type you have when you say which product works best for you...it would really be helpful..Thanks Smile

free skin care · Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:19 pm

Nan -

I'm the original poster of this particular thread.

I'm 41 and my skin is on the dry side - especially in the winter. The Hyualronic Acid in the Relaxaline sounds very hydrating. I do like the Alpha Derma but I don't like spending $100 for it - if the Relaxaline can do the same thing for less than half the cost, I'm going to give it a go. This way, I can spend the difference on something else!!! lol!

Maria

free skin care · Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:11 pm

Eve wrote:

What I epecially like about the ADCE is that it's an all in one.

I don't have to apply extra vit.c (I can if I want as I've still got my skinceuticals open) it also contains the DMAE & alpha lipoic acid I liked in the Perricone product but wouldn't pay for.

So I don't need to buy four or five products when one will do.

First to answer Nanapost: I am 59. I have combo skin and mainly was concerned about my sagging face after losing 20 lbs. Though I have not tried the relaxaline I like ADCE because it has everything in it I need. I hate using a lot of product. Besides the fine lines and wrinkles I wanted to firm my sagging skin. AD did that for me! I don't find the cost of AD very expensive as it comes in a 4 oz. bottle and I use it on my whole face, neck and chest area. I just finished one bottle after 3 months. The prep is only half gone after three months and the same with Okusil.

I am going to try the autoship program for $39.00 per month for a 1 month supply (for a while anyway). I called them as I was concerned about the autoship after hearing horror stories on Hydroderm. I probably drove them nuts with all my questions. It is set up in a way that all you have to do is call and they will cancel it. Apparently they set this up so more people could afford the product. I have dealt with JBC enough that I totally trust them.

I agree it depends on your age and what you are targeting. If all you need to target is your crows feet, forhead lines and laugh lines Relaxaline sounds fabulous. My whole face needs the work. Embarassed

I try to compare by ounces and count in shipping costs. So, if I can swing the 4oz. bottle it would be the cheapest as I would only be paying shipping once.

I am not going to send my little Scottish Terrier to the groomer every three weeks anymore at $50.00. Every six weeks now so I can spend the money on my face! Laughing

free skin care · Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:19 am

I'm nearly 40 and have had dry skin all my life. The combination of C serum, and relaxaline (after I ran out of B5 gel Rolling Eyes

) with it's high dose of HA means that I don't need a really heavy moisturiser. Whilst I was using ADCE my skin was like crepe paper Shock

It's ok now I've gone back to relaxaline. I'd say if your skin is oily then ADCE would be fine, but dry skin is waaaaay better with the relaxaline

free skin care · Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:57 pm

I think their are alot of different variables when considering a product like these. The first factor is age , skin type and what you would like to get out of it. For the AlphaDerma there are several reasons I feel it is by far the best product. The first reason is all the important anti-aging ingredients that are in the product. If all you want the item to do is work on wrinkles then I guess it really doesn't matter which AH3 product you buy. But so many people out there have other skin issues as well. The AlphaDerma covers so many different skin needs as compared to the competetion. The price if you look at it correctly is cheap. It is 4oz vs all the other at 1oz. Most the other companies charge $85.00 an ounce or more. That is a one month supply for at least $80.00 an oz. When our product is broken down by the oz it is less than $40.00 an oz and a 90 day supply. The AlphaDerma is a quick easy way to get in and out without having to use 5 different items. The reason so many others haven't used our blend of Alphalipoic Acid, Vit C-Ester and DMAE is because they can't. It is protected by a patent that we were grandfathered in because of prior use. When combined with the AH3 it has unduplicated results. The other supporting ingredients are essential for healthy vibrant skin (high potency Elastin, Hydrolyzed Collagen and a special soy extract) The combination of all these potent anti-aging ingredients sold seperately would cost $400.00 and up at least. I can not explain why some people prefer other items that are not nearly as complete as ours but I can guarantee that we stand by our product 100%, so it really is not taking a chance buying the AlphaDerma, it is like a RISK FREE BUY! If you are not happy send it back for a full refund anytime. NO OTHER COMPANY has that REFUND.
Thanks for your time and I hope that everyone finds a product that works for them.
Ian Strassler

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:44 am

Question for Ian,

I know that Winnie says that she doesn't need to use a moisturizer after using the AD and Okusil. My skin is pretty dry, I just ordered the monthly program for AD (even though I've never tried it before, your guarantee is so reassuring) and I've always used a moisturizer, and a heavier one at night. Is Winnie's experience typical?

BTW, your guy, Carmen, is a sweetie and was very helpful! Very Happy

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:02 am

Hi Nanapost,

I am sure you will get a response for JB at sometime. But, to answer your question.

During the summer with my combo skin, I found I did not need a moisturizer over AlphaDermaCE. I do anticipate that in our cold winter months in New England I will. There is no reason that you can't put a moisturizer over AD. I would suggest letting AD totally soak into your skin first (a couple of minutes) before applying a moisturizer.

I try to drink at least 8 8ozs. of water a day. When I don't I notice a hugh difference in my skins hydration. During those times I have added moisturizer.

I would suggest using a very natural moisturizer that is not too heavy.

Again, we are all very different. There is no right or wrong. Just apply the AD BEFORE any other product you use. I find sometimes I make things very complicated for myself. Keep it simple and enjoy you AD. I know that it says instant results. However, at my age I noticed that although my skin looked more alive and felt good from the first use, the firmness and line reduction took a few weeks.

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:12 pm

Righto Winnie...I just wish it would arrive...I'm ready for my beautification Laughing

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:38 pm

Mariav wrote:

Nan -

I'm the original poster of this particular thread.

I'm 41 and my skin is on the dry side - especially in the winter. The Hyualronic Acid in the Relaxaline sounds very hydrating. I do like the Alpha Derma but I don't like spending $100 for it - if the Relaxaline can do the same thing for less than half the cost, I'm going to give it a go. This way, I can spend the difference on something else!!! lol!
Maria

Just for everyone's info....The Esthers Secret has the 10% Argireline and Hyaluronic acid, as well as other nourishing ingredients and on the monthly autoship, it's only $31.95. That will last you at least a month, perhaps 1-1/2 months, depending on your skin and depending on how much you apply.

Several people on the forum have used the autoship program and I've heard no problems. One time purchase as a Preferred Customer is $38.95.

I've used Esthers for 5 months now and have seen significant difference, especially in the eye area, but also in the nasiolabial folds and the neck. My lip lines were quite deep and it has helped, but that was the most difficult part of my face.

JUDY

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:07 pm

Ian S. wrote:

I think their are alot of different variables when considering a product like these. The first factor is age , skin type and what you would like to get out of it. For the AlphaDerma there are several reasons I feel it is by far the best product. The first reason is all the important anti-aging ingredients that are in the product. If all you want the item to do is work on wrinkles then I guess it really doesn't matter which AH3 product you buy. But so many people out there have other skin issues as well. The AlphaDerma covers so many different skin needs as compared to the competetion. The price if you look at it correctly is cheap. It is 4oz vs all the other at 1oz. Most the other companies charge $85.00 an ounce or more. That is a one month supply for at least $80.00 an oz. When our product is broken down by the oz it is less than $40.00 an oz and a 90 day supply. The AlphaDerma is a quick easy way to get in and out without having to use 5 different items. The reason so many others haven't used our blend of Alphalipoic Acid, Vit C-Ester and DMAE is because they can't. It is protected by a patent that we were grandfathered in because of prior use. When combined with the AH3 it has unduplicated results. The other supporting ingredients are essential for healthy vibrant skin (high potency Elastin, Hydrolyzed Collagen and a special soy extract) The combination of all these potent anti-aging ingredients sold seperately would cost $400.00 and up at least. I can not explain why some people prefer other items that are not nearly as complete as ours but I can guarantee that we stand by our product 100%, so it really is not taking a chance buying the AlphaDerma, it is like a RISK FREE BUY! If you are not happy send it back for a full refund anytime. NO OTHER COMPANY has that REFUND.
Thanks for your time and I hope that everyone finds a product that works for them.
Ian Strassler

Ian makes some very good points on this subject.

You know me, I always look for articles, research reports, etc. to help me evaluate products. Rolling Eyes

In support of having a variety of active ingredients, here's a quote from Dr. Patricia Farris of Tulane University School of Medicine: “The active ingredient must be stabilized, delivered to the skin at a therapeutic concentration, and remain in the skin long enough to exert its biochemical effects. Only when these conditions are met can real benefits be seen” (American Academy of Dermatology 2002).

I'm pretty sure that all three products, AlphaDermaCE, Esthers Secret Serum, and Relaxaline all have the 10% concentration of Argireline. I know for sure about Esthers Secret and I know Ian can vouch for ADCE. Betterat40 can most likely tell us about Relaxaline.

"Therapeutic concentration" is at least 10% which is the level used in the clinical trials on Argireline. And, assuming that all three have the 10% concentration of Argireline, we know that the active ingredient is stabilized. I think we can also say that all three are formulated to stay in the skin long enough to exert it's biochemical effects. Argireline has been said to be the only topical ingredient that actually provides a degree of the same biochemical effects found with Botox. So, all three show very well on that score.

Another quote that I believe is very helpful and informative is from Lucire Living magazine: "How do you choose what's right for you? According to beauty advisers in the know, the best bet is to go for a formula that has the optimum concentration (around the 10 per cent mark) and look for other, more traditional wrinkle-fighting ingredients like antioxidants (Vitamins A, C, and E) in the mix, and few to no irritants like SD alcohol."

Some of us get so hooked on the Argireline subject, we don't take into consideration other elements that may be necessary.

For ACDE, Ian has pointed out that it has Vit. C, DMAE, alphalipoic acid, etc. to support the skins other needs and points out that these ingredients make it a very good value and keep you from having to use so many different products. A very good point.

I haven't used Relaxaline, so don't know it's ingredients, but if Betterat40 can list them for us, that will give us a better comparison.

Esthers Secret has standardized Aloe Barbadensis gel, which is moisturizing and has been shown to help with the body's synthesis of collagen. Aloe also contains lignan, salicylic acid, saponins, sterols, and triterpenoids. The gel also contains vitamins A, C, E, B12, thiamine, niacin and folic acid, as well as the minerals sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, manganese, copper, zinc, chromium, and iron.

Other ingredients include Acacia (vegetable collagen), Grapeseed and Green Tea extracts, Cucumber extract (anti-irritant), Echinacea extract, Allantoin for skin softening and rapid cell regeneration, and Vitamins E, D3, and A, etc.

I notice that ADCE has many of those same ingredients, in some cases ADCE has ingredients that Esthers does not and Esthers has some that ADCE does not. So, again, I'd still say they compare pretty well. Wade in here anytime Ian. I'm not trying to be controversial, just pointing out sameness and differences. And, of course you know your product better, just as I do Esthers Secret.

The next point in the quote is "few to no irritants like SD alcohol. As for Esthers Secret, it has no dyes, no fragrances and no irritants like alcohol.

Price comparison between the ADCE and Esthers Secret is ADCE $39 on autoship for 1 oz. (if I understand it correctly) and Esthers Secret $31.95 on autoship for one ounce. One ounce of ES will last 30 to 45 days. It depends on your skin type, where you apply it and how liberally you apply. Everyone is different. Esthers Secret NOT on autoship is $38.95 and I'm not sure about ADCE not on auto-ship, but did I understand $79.95? I tried to figure that out at the JB site, but wasn't sure.

As for guarantee, Esthers Secret also has a money back guarantee.

So, I'm sure someone can compare Relaxaline with those two and give us the scoop. Anxious

What I do see is that there are quite a few people on this forum that absolutely love each one of these products....different ones for different people. I think that it will depend on the person's skin, other products they use, perhaps even the climate they live in. From where I stand, it appears that all three products are excellent products with a lot to offer. I hope this very long, analytical comparison helps some of you make your decision and helps you out of the land of confusion. Laughing

JUDY

Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:32 am

Winnie wrote about using a very natural light moisturizer.

I have had great results with Esters Secret Serum and Mask. However, I still use Retin-A. Right now I don't need a moisturizer because the serum & mask has made such an improvement in my skin. I am following this new ingredient, Argireline, thinking it is what makes the difference. But, with winter coming, I could possibly need a moisturizer. Retin-A is very drying but I've been using it a long time. Don't want to get caught with Embarassed

dry skin.
Any suggestions Question

free skin care · Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:53 am

The majority of our customers report dropping their current moisturizer after they began their treatment. AlphaDerma provides the ideal balance of moisture and UVA/UVB protection- so you can't go wrong. However, we always recommend developing your own personal regimen because skin types vary per person, and would be happy to work with you on determining the ideal treatment for you. In the meantime, I recommend beginning your treatment as directed on the package: Cleanse area to be treated, blot dry, apply AlphaDerma and continue with your daily regimen. If you still feel your skin is lacking the proper moisture please give me a call to discuss adding a complimentary moisturizer.

Thank you again for your recent order. I look forward to hearing feedback regarding your treatment.

Ian Strassler

Nanapost wrote:

Question for Ian,

I know that Winnie says that she doesn't need to use a moisturizer after using the AD and Okusil. My skin is pretty dry, I just ordered the monthly program for AD (even though I've never tried it before, your guarantee is so reassuring) and I've always used a moisturizer, and a heavier one at night. Is Winnie's experience typical?

BTW, your guy, Carmen, is a sweetie and was very helpful! Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:27 pm

Ian S wrote:

If you still feel your skin is lacking the proper moisture please give me a call to discuss adding a complimentary moisturizer.

WOW!! Shock

Now that is truely faith in one's product AND standing behind it. I can hardly wait to get my first shipment. Thanks so much, Ian, for your answer to my question. Very Happy

Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:08 pm

My mum just started using the AD CE, the prep gel and the Okusil eye serum. It's only been five days though she thinks she sees some difference (when she applies it, but not a permanent difference as yet). I think she is still using her moisturiser but she has very dehydrated skin. I'll report back after she uses it for a few weeks and we'll see how it goes and if she feels that she doesn't need additional moisturiser anymore.

One thing that I have yet not been able to get my mum to do is wear sunblock Mad

I'm still working on that...

free skin care · Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:22 pm

Mabsy wrote:

My mum just started using the AD CE, the prep gel and the Okusil eye serum. It's only been five days though she thinks she sees some difference (when she applies it, but not a permanent difference as yet).

Mabsy, just wondering how old is your mum and what condition is her skin in? I'm just seeing some sagging in the lower quarters of my face and some little lines forming there that I just hate, some fairly deep laugh lines and a couple of light lines on my forehead and neck. I wish I had found this forum and these products about 10 years ago(if they even existed) but I'm really hoping for some dramatic results. Winnie is so pleased with ADCE and I'm hoping I'm just as excited once I start using it. I hope I'm not expecting too much. Rolling Eyes

Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:48 am

Nanapost,

She's in her mid 50s and has deep frown lines between her brows and deep 'smile' lines and some sagging (sorry mum!) running from the nose to the corners of the mouth. She's also got some lines around the corners of her eyes and a few horizontal lines on her forehead but these are not very deep. She hates her frown lines though, they are the deepest lines she has and they make her look 'angry'.

free skin care · Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:58 am

Mabsy,

Why is your mum so against sunblock? I'm not trying to pick on her. I'm just trying to understand the "mindset" that stops one from using sunscreen or sunblock - especially against that that gorgeous, high UV, Australian sun Cool

free skin care · Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:49 am

Mabsy wrote:

One thing that I have yet not been able to get my mum to do is wear sunblock I'm still working on that...

Mabsy from what Ian wrote, there seems to be the sun protection in the AD CE that your mom would need. I like hearing that your mom is in her 50's bcause I'm always looking for what works well on my age skin. Even though skin type, etc may not be the same, I do think there's a great difference between young skin (20's, even 30') and "mature" Confused

skin. I've found that the changes that occur in the 50's are enormous (and, unfortunately head to toe Rolling Eyes

) compared with other decades. Keep us posted on your mum and I'll do the same. Smile

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