FINACEA findings~ please read
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:54 am

Hi bergquis - thanks a lot for posting this Smile

I am new on this forum; this is my first post, even though I have been reading the posts for quite some time now. In my search for a solution for my problem skin, I have learned so much from all of you, so thanks to everyone! It's amazing how knowledgeable and helpful you are.

I've been reading a lot of your posts too, bergquis, as your skin type seem to be similar to mine. I really hope Finacea and your current routine keeps working wonders for your skin! Please keep us posted Smile

I am struggling with congested skin (blackheads, whiteheads, deep millia, blemishes, and to top it all of, I have a tendency to get dehydrated, flaky skin - esp. in winter - and I have some rosacea and hyperpigmentation. But it is def the congestion that bothers me the most. I am currently using Exuviance ( decided to finish products (many) I have sitting on my bathroom shelves..), but your post inspired me to get a derm appointment and maybe ask him for Finacea. I am just a bit worried it may be too drying on my skin. Did you experience drier skin from using it? I suppose I could use a good moisturiser after applying Finacea (?)

Thanks again! Smile

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:03 am

Thanks m1rox. I just got my Finacea this afternoon so I will trying it out just on one part of my face first, to see if I'm allergic to any of the inactive ingredients.

Thanks for the update bergquis, its very helpful to see how you fit the Finacea into your regime. Do you not use moisturiser or sunscreen in the mornings? Do you think that if you didnt wait the 15mins before and after Finacea, your skin will be more sensitive?

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:49 am

Wel, I just ordered the finacea from australian chemist, so thankyou for that.

I am going to use it on sun damage, as apparently azaleic acid is wery wery good at getting rid of it.

Worth a shot, methinks.

Will report back, in due time.

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:57 am

Finacea is more for clogged pores, blackheads, pigmentation. If you want to seriously address sun damage, you need a retinoid product (Avene brand are the strongest over-the-counter products or tretinoin which you need prescription).

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:21 am

Hi violetta
I did not experience any dry skin from Finacea and I could have the tendency to get dry skin (areas) with other products. My skin was actually feeling moisturized and really soft. I know others have posted that it dried their skin. If you experience this, try just using once a day and work up to it. I have a few areas of dry skin NOW, but it is not from the Finacea, it is from the Glycolic acid cleanser I am using now. I know that, because I only use the cleanser in the evening, and my skin is drier. In the am, I don't use the cleanser and my skin is not dry during the day. I can't tell you how many different products I have tried for over 10 years now, this is the only thing that I have actually seen results with. I will keep you posted

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:04 am

m1rox wrote:

Finacea is more for clogged pores, blackheads, pigmentation. If you want to seriously address sun damage, you need a retinoid product (Avene brand are the strongest over-the-counter products or tretinoin which you need prescription).

yep, I know, m1rox.

I do use Eluage, or will do now that summer appear to be overs.

But I have read that azaleic acid gets get great results too. So I shall add it in there.

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:45 am

m1rox wrote:

Finacea is more for clogged pores, blackheads, pigmentation. If you want to seriously address sun damage, you need a retinoid product (Avene brand are the strongest over-the-counter products or tretinoin which you need prescription).

Research has shown that Tretinoin alone is not very effective at treating sun damage or melasma compared to Azelaic Acid that contains 15% to 20% concentrations. Though Azelaic Acid was originally positioned as a treatment for acne & rosacea, studies have found that it is ALSO very effective for treating hyperpigmention (Jan Marini has it as an active ingredient (at 5%) in ALL of her skin lightening products).

Here are a few excerpts from an informative article written by Paula Begoun that discusses Retin-A and Azelaic Acid (and a host of other skin lightening actives). What I found most interesting in this article was the assertion that if you were to combine the use of Retin-A with Finacea (or any azelaic acid brand at 15%-20%) the results were far more impressive for treating hyperpigmention than using Finacea on it's own. Of course this is not to say you won't gain results from using Finacea alone to lighten your skin and treat hyperpigmentation, because you will! The results may simply take longer (5-6 months) and be less pronounced.

Paula Begoun wrote:

Tretinoin
A great deal of research has shown that the use of tretinoin (also known as all-trans retinoic acid as found in the prescription medication Renova and Retin-A) can only be somewhat effective in treating skin discolorations (Sources: Dermatologic Surgery, March 2006, pages 365-371; Acta Dermato-Venereologica, July 1999, pages 305-310; International Journal of Dermatology, April 1998, pages 286-292; and Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, March 1997, pages S27-S36). However, the skin's response to tretinoin is far more noticeable and impressive when it is used in combination with hydroquinone or azelaic acid. Because of this, tretinoin is generally not recommended as the only topical option for melasma but is best used for the purpose of reducing darkened areas of skin in combination with other effective topicals, particularly sunscreen and hydroquinone (Source: eMedicine Journal,www.emedicine.com http://www.emedicine.com, November 15, 2001).

Even though tretinoin by itself can be disappointing for skin lightening, this should in no way diminish its role in the improvement of skin's healthy cell production, collagen production, elasticity, texture, and dermal thickness. Tretinoin, combined with more effective skin-lightening treatments, is a powerful ally in the battle against sun-damaged and aged skin.

Azelaic Acid
Azelaic acid is a component of grains, such as wheat, rye, and barley. It is effective against a number of skin conditions when applied topically in a cream formulation at a 20% concentration. Azelaic acid is recommended to treat acne, but there also is research showing it to be effective for skin discolorations. For example, "The efficacy of 20% azelaic acid cream and 4% hydroquinone cream, both used in conjunction with a broad-spectrum sunscreen, against melasma was investigated in a 24-week, double-blind study with 329 women. Over the treatment period, the azelaic acid cream yielded 65% good or excellent results; no significant treatment differences were observed with regard to overall rating, reduction in lesion size, and pigment intensity. Severe side effects such as allergic sensitization or exogenous ochronosis were not observed with azelaic acid" (Source: International Journal of Dermatology, December 1991, pages 893-895). Other research also indicates azelaic acid is an option for inhibiting melanin production (Source: Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology, May 2006, supplemental, pages 272-281). However, additional research suggests that azelaic acid is more irritating than hydroquinone mixed with glycolic acid (Source: eMedicine Journal,www.emedicine.com, November 5, 2001). Regardless, azelaic acid is definitely a consideration for skin lightening if you have had problems using hydroquinone.
www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/art.asp?ID=157

Like Catski, I intend to use Finacea to treat my sun damage & hyperpigmentation but will also combine it with Retin-A in the hopes of achieving even better results (fingers crossed! Wink

).

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:12 pm

ScotsLass wrote:

m1rox wrote:

Finacea is more for clogged pores, blackheads, pigmentation. If you want to seriously address sun damage, you need a retinoid product (Avene brand are the strongest over-the-counter products or tretinoin which you need prescription).

Research has shown that Tretinoin alone is not very effective at treating sun damage or melasma compared to Azelaic Acid that contains 15% to 20% concentrations. Though Azelaic Acid was originally positioned as a treatment for acne & rosacea, studies have found that it is ALSO very effective for treating hyperpigmention (Jan Marini has it as an active ingredient (at 5%) in ALL of her skin lightening products).

Here is a quote from an informative article written by Paula Begoun that discusses Retin-A and Azelaic Acid (and a host of other skin lightening actives). What I found most interesting in this article was the assertion that if you were to combine the use of Retin-A with Finacea (or any azelaic acid brand at 15%-20%) the results were far more impressive for treating hyperpigmention than using Finacea on it's own. Of course this is not to say you won't gain results from using Finacea alone to lighten your skin and treat hyperpigmentation, because you will! The results may simply take longer (5-6 months) and be less pronounced.

*****

Like Catski, I intend to use Finacea to treat my sun damage & hyperpigmentation but will also combine it with Retin-A in the hopes of achieving even better results (fingers crossed! Wink

).

Sun damage is not only about melasma and hyperpigmentation. Azaleic acid used alone or in combination with tretinoin is obviously most effective in lightening hyperpigmentation. However, lines and wrinkles are also typical signs of sun damage. Tretinoin is proven most effective in preventing and treating lines and wrinkles.

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:34 pm

Septembergirl - I wasn't referring to lines and wrinkles via sun damage and I do not believe the article by Paula Begoun was either (it is afterall called, "Skin Lightening"). I was specifically addressing discoloration of the skin as a result of sun damage/hyperpigmentation, and that Tretinoin alone has been shown to be less effective in treating these conditions. Unless I am mistaken, I think this is what Catski is trying to resolve as well - sun damage that has caused discoloration of her skin.

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:09 pm

ScotsLass wrote:

Septembergirl - I wasn't referring to lines and wrinkles via sun damage and I do not believe the article by Paula Begoun was either (it is afterall called, "Skin Lightening"). I was specifically addressing discoloration of the skin as a result of sun damage/hyperpigmentation, and that Tretinoin alone has been shown to be less effective in treating this condition. Unless I am mistaken, I think this is what Catski is trying to resolve as well - sun damage that has caused discoloration of her skin.

That's OK. I just referred to the first line in your post, quote: "Research has shown that Tretinoin alone is not very effective at treating sun damage or melasma compared to Azelaic acid that contains 15 % to 20 % concentrations."

I believe that m1rox had sun damage like lines, wrinkles, collagen damage, loss of elasticity etc in mind when she recommended a retinoid product, as she pointed out in her post that Finacea (azelaic acid) is suitable for pigmentation.

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:57 pm

septembergirl wrote:

That's OK. I just referred to the first line in your post, quote: "Research has shown that Tretinoin alone is not very effective at treating sun damage or melasma compared to Azelaic acid that contains 15 % to 20 % concentrations."

I believe that m1rox had sun damage like lines, wrinkles, collagen damage, loss of elasticity etc in mind when she recommended a retinoid product, as she pointed out in her post that Finacea (azelaic acid) is suitable for pigmentation.

Ah-ha, now I see where the channels got crossed. Smile

I guess the first sentence wasn't succinct enough when I said "sun damage or melasma", and that it could read as if I am referencing two separate conditions (which wasn't my intention). Sun damage is the exclusive cause of melasma so I tend to interchange one for the other, which I now realize can open up the door to misunderstandings if someone thinks of *sun damage* primarily in terms of wrinkles and fine lines, etc. Catski and I both suffer from sun induced skin discolorations and I know from talking to her in the past about treatment options that we tend to refer to our condition simply as "sun damage".

Even though m1rox referenced "pigmentation" in her response to Catski, I still thought she was implying that Tretinoin was superior to azelaic acid for treating sun damage, including the pigmented variety. This prompted me to post about the research findings concerning Tretinoin and sun damaged discolored skin.

In my own case, this information has been very helpful because I now know how to get the best bang for my buck with Tretinoin. Not only is it excellent for wrinkles and anti-aging (as you pointed out Wink

), but it can be optimized with the addition of AA (azelaic acid) if you're treating hyperpigmention. Talk about a two-for-one deal! Even sweeter for me is that both Tretinoin and Finacea are covered under my drug plan - woo hoo!!! Dancing

The question now is whether or not my skin can tolerate the two at the same time. Guess I'll find out soon enough! Smile

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:20 pm

ScotsLass, so nice to see you again. I missed your presence!

You are spot on as usual.

My plan is to use the Eluage + Eluage gel + Finacea.

The Eluage + Gel is a dream: it's nicely moisturising and I find it very effective in smoothing and clearing and fading, and of course it's good for wrinklies.

But like you, discolouration is my issue, so I'm hoping I can apply Finacea under the Eluage.

Let's compare notes as and when. I have both products on order and will start as soon as they arrive.

Here's to us having no irritation, and no discolourations either.... sooner rather than later!

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:22 pm

Has anyone ordered from epharmacy.com.au?
It's been 12 days and my finacea still hasn't arrived. How long does it usually take?

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:23 pm

catski wrote:

ScotsLass, so nice to see you again. I missed your presence!

You are spot on as usual.

My plan is to use the Eluage + Eluage gel + Finacea.

The Eluage + Gel is a dream: it's nicely moisturising and I find it very effective in smoothing and clearing and fading, and of course it's good for wrinklies.

But like you, discolouration is my issue, so I'm hoping I can apply Finacea under the Eluage.

Let's compare notes as and when. I have both products on order and will start as soon as they arrive.

Here's to us having no irritation, and no discolourations either.... sooner rather than later!

Hello Dear Catski!!! wave

Thank you for the kind words - it is great to see you, too!

I'm pretty excited about trying retin-a with Finacea and can't wait to see the Derm for my prescriptions next week (and ask more questions about wait times and layering options!). I hope your order arrives within the week and that we can compare notes shortly. Gosh, wouldn't it be great to finally find a solid treatment plan that fades the spots effectively and doesn't cost a fortune in the process (Cosmelan is just too expensive in the long run due to the cost of the maintenance cream, yikes!).

Goodness, you've really got me wondering about Eluage+Gel now....and I am REALLY tempted to run across the street and ask for a sample of it (my local drugstore sells the complete Avene line). However, my experience with Ysthéal+Gel was pretty lousy so I'm a wee bit reluctant to explore the Avene retinols again. How long have you been using Eluage (+Gel) and did you experience any irritation adjusting to it?

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:28 pm

Septembergirl wrote:

I believe that m1rox had sun damage like lines, wrinkles, collagen damage, loss of elasticity etc in mind when she recommended a retinoid product, as she pointed out in her post that Finacea (azelaic acid) is suitable for pigmentation.

Yes, that's correct. I was referring to loss of elasticity sun damage (e.g. lines, wrinkles, sagging) when I recommended a retinoid product. Finacea would be able to address pigmentation.

But as with all skincare products, your mileage may vary and just because it works great for one person doesn't mean it can do the same for you. There are people who broke out all over their face with Finacea too, so please don't get overly enthusiastic when you get it and ease it gently into your routine, preferably once daily to start off with and even consider alternate day if your skin is sensitive. you can increase the frequency if your skin can take it. But better to be safe than sorry. Once the breakouts come, it's impossible to reverse them.

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:35 pm

if i am not rosacea but just acne over the nose with broken cap, does FINACEA help? previously i use DUAC gel which contained clindamycin and benzoyl peroxide but i heard that benzoyl peroxide is carcinogenic....so i am hesitate to use it..

free skin care · Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:47 pm

You can try Finacea. The active chemical is also used in acne treatment (e.g. Acnederm is also azaleaic acid in 20 percent formulation for acne).

Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:58 am

Thanks bergquis. That's great that you're not experiencing any dryness with the Finacea. A lot of products for congested/oily skin can be too drying and therefore difficult to use in more dry/sensitive areas with broken caps. So def great news that Finacea is used for rosacea as well!
Just like you I have tried a lot of different products (and treatments) over the years to try sort out my skin. I was reading your thread about "deep, clogged pores" from earlier this summer with great interest, and learned a lot from all the knowledgeable ladies out there!

Well, thanks again and keep us posted Smile

free skin care · Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:02 am

ScotsLass wrote:

. How long have you been using Eluage (+Gel) and did you experience any irritation adjusting to it?

Scots, I have used one whole container of both products. I use them only in the winter months... not sure how long that actually took.

I had ZERO irritation. In fact I noticed practically immediate benefit. Really excellent product for me.

Do get some samples if you can. I think Eluage is more sophisticated than Ystheal, with hyaluronic acid in a format that penetrates very well.

The cream is very 'creamy', I actually find it soothing to apply.

Fingers crossed on this new plan, eh!

free skin care · Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:49 am

m1rox wrote:

...But as with all skincare products, your mileage may vary and just because it works great for one person doesn't mean it can do the same for you. There are people who broke out all over their face with Finacea too, so please don't get overly enthusiastic when you get it and ease it gently into your routine, preferably once daily to start off with and even consider alternate day if your skin is sensitive. you can increase the frequency if your skin can take it. But better to be safe than sorry. Once the breakouts come, it's impossible to reverse them.

This is true about all products, isn't it! Smile

My plan is to test Finacea on my chest where the worst of my hyperpigmentation is located. If I decide to use it on my face I've read that starting slowly, as in once every three days for the first week, is the best approach for people like me who have sensitive skin. If all goes well during the first week, then apply it every other day throughout the second week. Should your skin tolerate this well, then apply once a day and gradually build up to twice daily if you feel the need (or was directed to do so by your Derm). At this stage, I think I'll stick to every 2-3 days just to be on the safe side. The thought of severe acne breakouts from Finacea is of great concern, so I will be monitoring my skin very closely.

Speaking of acne, for those who are not using Retin-a and experienced breakouts from Finacea, did anyone try to use a BHA (Salicylic Acid) solution to clear it up? I've read several success stories about people who used a BHA to offset any purging or acne problems from Finacea. Of course it is NOT advisable to use any AHA/BHA while your using Retin-a (though I know there are people here who do Wink

). So please keep this in mind if you want to use a BHA in the AM and your Finacea in the PM (or vice-versa).

free skin care · Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:04 am

catski wrote:

ScotsLass wrote:

. How long have you been using Eluage (+Gel) and did you experience any irritation adjusting to it?

Scots, I have used one whole container of both products. I use them only in the winter months... not sure how long that actually took.

I had ZERO irritation. In fact I noticed practically immediate benefit. Really excellent product for me.

Do get some samples if you can. I think Eluage is more sophisticated than Ystheal, with hyaluronic acid in a format that penetrates very well.

The cream is very 'creamy', I actually find it soothing to apply.

Fingers crossed on this new plan, eh!

Okay, that settles it! I'm heading out today to pick up a sample of both Eluage products! Very Happy

My skin it looking rather bleh these days, so I would welcome a creamy soothing product that also smooths and brightens. Thanks for the feedback, girl!

The new plan really does sound promising for us - just wish it was next week so that I can see my Derm and get going already. Laughing

Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:51 pm

Seems azelaic acid is effective for open pores also....

Quote:

Smack bang in the middle of the face, they have naturally high visibility and tend to make the nose appear larger than it actually is, simply by drawing attention to it, or rather to the brown, grey or black dotted-texture it wears when the follicles are filled with excess oxidized wax or sebum.

While no quick-fix exists, long-term therapeutic azelaic acid use represents the next most appropriate solution not requiring extensive office visits.

Unfortunately and predictably, irrespective of cost, most patients leave effective treatment of open pores for an extended period of time (beyond one year) and will therefore always suffer from them even when (or if) congestion (in the form of blackheads, acne or hardened wax plugs) is addressed because their pores will have become permanently distended (stretched) by having to accommodate retained wastes.

The preferred preventive and ongoing treatment for open pores in all skin types and conditions is azelaic acid, the highest concentration of which (20% ) is found in MD Rx Higher Strength Azelaic Acid. The next highest concentration is available in Jan Marini Bioclear Cream and Lotion, albeit at only 1%. No other alternative sources currently exist.

Although the cosmetics industry has succeeded in suggesting a whole range of alternatives for visibly open pores (plant extracts, mild scrubs, facials administered by beauticians/aestheticians including dubious "extractions"), as always none of them provide any more than fleeting benefit because they address neither inflammation nor the clumping of cells within follicles which produce the aesthetic problem in the first place.

It's pointless to even try treating open pores without introducing azelaic acid into pores in a manner which lasts the better part of each day because visibly open (distended) pores are representative of a chronic process. Visibly open pores simply do not respond favourably to physical and superficial treatments.

http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Open-Pores.html

free skin care · Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:19 pm

ScotsLass wrote:

I guess the first sentence wasn't succinct enough when I said "sun damage or melasma", and that it could read as if I am referencing two separate conditions (which wasn't my intention). Sun damage is the exclusive cause of melasma so I tend to interchange one for the other, which I now realize can open up the door to misunderstandings if someone thinks of *sun damage* primarily in terms of wrinkles and fine lines, etc.

Last I checked, Melasma could be caused by a number of things, including hormonal changes, skin irritation, etc. Sun exposure may worsen it, but it is NOT "the exclusive cause." However, if you don't stay out of the sun once you get it, you will never get rid of it.

Quote:

What causes melasma?

The precise cause of melasma is unknown. People with a family history of melasma are more likely to develop melasma themselves. A change in hormonal status may trigger melasma. It is commonly associated with pregnancy and called chloasma, or the "mask of pregnancy." Birth control pills may also cause melasma, however, hormone replacement therapy used after menopause has not been shown to cause the condition.

Sun exposure contributes to melasma. Ultraviolet light from the sun, and even very strong light from light bulbs, can stimulate pigment-producing cells, or melanocytes in the skin. People with skin of color have more active melanocytes than those with light skin. These melanocytes produce a large amount of pigment under normal conditions, but this production increases even further when stimulated by light exposure or an increase in hormone levels. Incidental exposure to the sun is mainly the reason for recurrences of melasma.

Any irritation of the skin may cause an increase in pigmentation in dark-skinned individuals, which may also worsen melasma. Melasma is not associated with any internal diseases or organ malfunction.

http://www.aad.org/public/publications/pamphlets/common_melasma.html

free skin care · Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:35 pm

ScotsLass wrote:

This is true about all products, isn't it! Smile

My plan is to test Finacea on my chest where the worst of my hyperpigmentation is located. If I decide to use it on my face I've read that starting slowly, as in once every three days for the first week, is the best approach for people like me who have sensitive skin. If all goes well during the first week, then apply it every other day throughout the second week. Should your skin tolerate this well, then apply once a day and gradually build up to twice daily if you feel the need (or was directed to do so by your Derm). At this stage, I think I'll stick to every 2-3 days just to be on the safe side. The thought of severe acne breakouts from Finacea is of great concern, so I will be monitoring my skin very closely.

Speaking of acne, for those who are not using Retin-a and experienced breakouts from Finacea, did anyone try to use a BHA (Salicylic Acid) solution to clear it up? I've read several success stories about people who used a BHA to offset any purging or acne problems from Finacea. Of course it is NOT advisable to use any AHA/BHA while your using Retin-a (though I know there are people here who do Wink

). So please keep this in mind if you want to use a BHA in the AM and your Finacea in the PM (or vice-versa).

Actually, I am not so sure that the breakouts on Finacea are acne or some sort of reaction to the product. If you are a member of makeupalley, you can view one of their threads on someone who had a reaction to Finacea:
http://www.makeupalley.com/m_82075089

But so far, most of the feedback has been positive.

Your plan sounds good.

free skin care · Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:46 am

bethany wrote:

ScotsLass wrote:

I guess the first sentence wasn't succinct enough when I said "sun damage or melasma", and that it could read as if I am referencing two separate conditions (which wasn't my intention). Sun damage is the exclusive cause of melasma so I tend to interchange one for the other, which I now realize can open up the door to misunderstandings if someone thinks of *sun damage* primarily in terms of wrinkles and fine lines, etc.

Last I checked, Melasma could be caused by a number of things, including hormonal changes, skin irritation, etc. Sun exposure may worsen it, but it is NOT "the exclusive cause." However, if you don't stay out of the sun once you get it, you will never get rid of it.

I agree with Bethany that melasma is more related to hormonal issues although the condition worsens with sun exposure. Melasma should not be confused with sun spots. According to Smartskincare.com, azelaic acid has been used to treat melasma, but has no or little effect on liver/age/sun spots (solar lentigines). Solar lentigines are described as sun-induced dark lesions that are caused by natural or artificial UV light.

Sun spots are most effectively being treated with hydroquinone, so apparently it's important to determine what causes the hyperpigmentation before choosing a topical.

Quote:

Azelaic acid has been used to treat melasma, lentigo maligna and other hyperpigmentation problems. Topical azelaic acid has no or little depigmentating effect on normally pigmented skin, freckles, age spots (solar lentigines), and nevi. Apparently, azelaic acid is much more active against abnormal melanin synthesis and abnormal melanocytes.

http://www.smartskincare.com/conditions/pigmentation/hyperpigmentation-treatments.html

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