Another Gadget, TriPollar STOP
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:27 pm

Bethany,

So sorry to have missed thanking you as well! I actually was thinking of your experience with win-health when I never got a response!

I am inclined to think that it is related to the website probs (and Mercury retrograde ! Yuk!).
So hopefully I will hear back soon.

Thx again! Smile

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:12 pm

cabrita wrote:

Hi,

Thx to Toby & Denny for pming me Halina & Roy's addy's. I have e-mailed Halina and am waiting for her response.

I am also reposting my original spec ?'s from 1/17 as Kassy suggested. (thx Kassy & feel free to ck with Roy directly also)

Here it is:

I have looked around & cannot seem to find some specs I need.

1. Maximum Output Power

2. Output Frequency

3. Modulation if any

I see this info is available for the apollo & the regen, but can't find for the Stop.

I am concerned re the possibility of fat loss & additionally DNA damage.

Would also like to know "if' th Stop os modulated any studies done to show there is no DNA damage being done.

Thx again!

I just emailed Roy the above post.. I'll let you know the minute I hear anything..

They are still having website problems .. Crying or Very sad

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:56 pm

I stumbled upon this website that offers elos photofacial..
I don't know if anybody heard of it before, but it combines IPL with a similar type of energy like the STOP, namely bipollar radio frequency. (instead of tripollar energy which the STOP uses)

Here is what it's supposed to be good for:

ELOS™ (electro-optical synergy) combines the synergy of bipolar radiofrequency and light energies to treat superficial and benign vascular and pigmented lesions like Rosacea, spider veins, skin imperfections by sun damage, red and brown spots. It treats fine wrinkles and improves skin texture irregularities, laxity and smoothness.

So I figured, maybe the STOP can be used together at the same time with phototherapy (for those who also have a LED device) for even better results?

The other thing I found remarkable, is that they advice to give an ELOS treatment every 4 weeks. Most patients need 5 treatments to see the desired results.

Every 4 weeks is quite a difference with every other day or twice a week like the STOP manufacturers recommend.
I wonder why that would be.. Think

Who knows the skin needs that much time to rebuild the collagen and fibres..?

source link to the article:
http://www.skin-deep.ca/anti_aging_solutions_photofacial.html

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:26 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

cabrita wrote:

Hi,

Thx to Toby & Denny for pming me Halina & Roy's addy's. I have e-mailed Halina and am waiting for her response.

I am also reposting my original spec ?'s from 1/17 as Kassy suggested. (thx Kassy & feel free to ck with Roy directly also)

Here it is:

I have looked around & cannot seem to find some specs I need.

1. Maximum Output Power

2. Output Frequency

3. Modulation if any

I see this info is available for the apollo & the regen, but can't find for the Stop.

I am concerned re the possibility of fat loss & additionally DNA damage.

Would also like to know "if' th Stop os modulated any studies done to show there is no DNA damage being done.

Thx again!

I just emailed Roy the above post.. I'll let you know the minute I hear anything..

They are still having website problems .. Crying or Very sad

I just recieved this reply from Roy;

Dear Kathy,

Very technical questions! We'll pass this one on to the manufacturer for their answers and we'll relay them on to you when they arrive. Might be a few days though.

Kind regards,

Roy

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:01 pm

Hi Kassy,

Wow you are definitely in with those guys! Razz

Thanks so much for e-mailing them re this!

I just wish they had gotten my 1st one cause I knew they'd have to ck with the manufacturer.
(suppose I could have e-mailed them directly, but figured they would get a quicker response!)

Keep us posted on your response from Stop & Roy! Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:48 pm

I am now a Stop owner, also. I have not yet used it and am still carefully reviewing the instructions. I think it looks more complicated at first approach than it really is.

I do agree the time does not add up. It look to be 11-13 treatment areas so will be far longer than 20 minutes for the whole face.

Anyway...I would like some advice from veterans here. I have been using the Anti-Aging Lightstim for about 5 weeks now and I absolutely LOVE this thing. I have been using it about 5 times a week since the beginning and really do not want to use less that every other night. Will using AALS on one night and the STOP on another night be okay? Is it okay to use them both on the same night?

I apologize in advance if this has been asked and answered. But I do not recall seeing the question and only remember the discussing of not initially starting both at the same time.

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:58 pm

Several of us are doing a stop treatment followed by the LED light. I have prolights and are recommended once a week so for the gusto I use the Stop on the night of my light treatment and then do the light. Others can share what they are doing. I think I would do several stop treatments solo so you can see the results of the Stop by itself. I think I had done several treatments before someone mentioned combining them. One of the articles above mentions using both together but this article is referring to a treatment in the dr. office with more powerful bipolar devices that even requires down time between treatments so it would not compare to the home version of the Stop. Congratulations with your new Stop....it is the greatest ever!!!!
Toby

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:14 pm

starriest, I'm using the AALS also, and I'm doing it opposite of Toby, in that I did the LED treatment first, followed by STOP.

My thought, (perhaps incorectly) is that the LED treatment will *juice* up the fibroblasts, and then the STOP will come in for the kill..

It's good that we are all doing things a little different, and hopefully between us, we can figure out the best treatment protocol.. Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:28 pm

I recieved an email from Halina, and she asked me to convey it here;

Hi Kathy

Kathy - can you please convey to your members that we are not the manufacturer but only a distributor of the device and we are not a party to specifications other than those stated in the manual and specifically on page 16 of the manual.

I have been reassured by the manufacturer's representatives that the device will not cause any fat loss. It only works on dermis and there is no fat in that layer of the skin. I have no reason to disbelieve the manufacturer. It is not in their interest to lie about the outcomes or potential side effects - if there were any.

I can only say what my experience is, what I am told by the manufacturer and what I see in the manual.

All we can do is to get Dr Zion Azar to answer these questions directly. This could take time.

I will let you know in due course - as soon as there is response from Israel.

Kind regards

Halina

Halina also said "I will answer individual customer questions as they are put to us via e-mails"

halina.wooldridge@win-health.com

roy.wooldridge@win-health.com

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:34 pm

Kandy wrote:

The other thing I found remarkable, is that they advice to give an ELOS treatment every 4 weeks. Most patients need 5 treatments to see the desired results.

Every 4 weeks is quite a difference with every other day or twice a week like the STOP manufacturers recommend.
I wonder why that would be.. Think

The Stop unit is nowhere near this powerful, so more frequent applications are safe (and necessary) to get good results. The Elos is a MUCH stronger clinical treatment that can only be administered by a professional (and requiring more "recovery" time between treatments). This is pretty much on par for all clinic treatments that come out with a home-use version.

Is that what you were asking, or did I misunderstand you?

I am very interested in seeing the answers to Cabrita's questions, too; once we have the technical data it should be easier for us to weigh any potential risks.

I'm actually somewhat skeptical that every other day usage of Stop will give the best results, but I'll have to see how others make out with their various routines before I can form a conclusion.

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:41 pm

I don't know how current this is, or if he'll even answer email from consumers, but here is an address I found for him:

For more information contact:
Dr. Zion Azar
+972 3 510 4110
zion_a@pollogen.com

(address found here)
http://www.sanepr.com/Founders-of-Radiancy-Resolves-Legal-Issues_16485.cfm

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:29 pm

I don't know if this has been posted before, if not it might be helpful to the discussion.
Toby

Quote:

Treatment protocol http://www.win-health.com/actinic/acatalog/stop-tripollar-rf.html
For best and lasting results, you should initially use the STOP device 2 - 3 times per week for 4 - 6 weeks. The manufacturer recommends that the device is not used more than once every other day. The day gap in the treatment is essential for the natural process of collagen regeneration to take its full effect.

On another site
http://www.stop-age.com/faq.php

5. How often can I use my STOP™?
The optimal frequency of use is 2 -3 times per week for 4-6 weeks for achieving long lasting results. It is recommended that the STOP™ device not be used more than once every other day. It is recommended to let the skin rest one day in between each treatment in order to allow the natural process of the skin’s collagen renewal to take full effect. Once the initial treatment course is completed, it is recommended to use STOP™ once every 2-4 weeks and as needed to maintain the long term results.
16. Can I use STOP™ together with a facial electrical muscle stimulator?
You may alternate between the two technologies or alternatively finalize the protocol of the one and proceed to treatments with STOP™

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:41 pm

Toby wrote:

[snipped]

For best and lasting results, you should initially use the STOP device 2 - 3 times per week for 4 - 6 weeks.

[and]

The optimal frequency of use is 2 -3 times per week for 4-6 weeks for achieving long lasting results.

[/quote]

If you read the "official" Stop site closely,you can pick up that they mean the initial treatment course is 12 times. They use that along with the quote above several times. So 3 times a week means a total of 4 weeks, twice a week means a total of 6 weeks. And either way, they are actually instructing for a total of 12 initial treatments and then moving into maintenance.

I just picked up on this when re-reading the Stop site just now. Look at the part in the FAQs about how long the cream will last. They say it will last for all 12 initial treatments. Somewhere else they talk about the 12 initial treatments. That fits the math of 2-3 times per week for 4 or six weeks.

So I think we should look at counting out 12 initial treatment sessions and as long as we do it at least twice a week, but no more than 3 times (which is almost every other day) then we are doing as they intend.

AND...this does not conflict with Hilena suggesting every other day vs. twice a week. Just throw an extra day off every 3rd time if doing every other day. Real life will get in the way enough to cause that to happen anyway.

I now think it only appears they are focusing on number of times per week, but the protocol is actually 12 initial treatments, no more often than every other day. They could have said this more clearly.

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:14 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

I don't know how current this is, or if he'll even answer email from consumers, but here is an address I found for him:

For more information contact:
Dr. Zion Azar
+972 3 510 4110
zion_a@pollogen.com

(address found here)
http://www.sanepr.com/Founders-of-Radiancy-Resolves-Legal-Issues_16485.cfm

Great find Low!

And here is the good Dr's website, which has lots of good info as well as clinical studies;

http://www.pollogen.com/

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:34 pm

starriest wrote:

Toby wrote:

[snipped]

For best and lasting results, you should initially use the STOP device 2 - 3 times per week for 4 - 6 weeks.

[and]

The optimal frequency of use is 2 -3 times per week for 4-6 weeks for achieving long lasting results.

If you read the "official" Stop site closely,you can pick up that they mean the initial treatment course is 12 times. They use that along with the quote above several times. So 3 times a week means a total of 4 weeks, twice a week means a total of 6 weeks. And either way, they are actually instructing for a total of 12 initial treatments and then moving into maintenance.

I just picked up on this when re-reading the Stop site just now. Look at the part in the FAQs about how long the cream will last. They say it will last for all 12 initial treatments. Somewhere else they talk about the 12 initial treatments. That fits the math of 2-3 times per week for 4 or six weeks.

So I think we should look at counting out 12 initial treatment sessions and as long as we do it at least twice a week, but no more than 3 times (which is almost every other day) then we are doing as they intend.

AND...this does not conflict with Hilena suggesting every other day vs. twice a week. Just throw an extra day off every 3rd time if doing every other day. Real life will get in the way enough to cause that to happen anyway.

I now think it only appears they are focusing on number of times per week, but the protocol is actually 12 initial treatments, no more often than every other day. They could have said this more clearly.

And in line with Kassy's feedback from Halina, there are definitely some inconsistencies in the directions between the manual and the website. All part of releasing a new gadget, and being early adopters. Very Happy

I may actually try the every other day treatment schedule (when life allows) and see how that goes.

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:03 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

starriest, I'm using the AALS also, and I'm doing it opposite of Toby, in that I did the LED treatment first, followed by STOP.

My thought, (perhaps incorectly) is that the LED treatment will *juice* up the fibroblasts, and then the STOP will come in for the kill..

It's good that we are all doing things a little different, and hopefully between us, we can figure out the best treatment protocol.. Very Happy

What to do, what to do.... Before or after?!? Arghh...two reliable sources doing the opposite.

I am surprised to read you are doing them both the same day. I expected to read AALS on one night and Stop on another. So I guess I will continue with my AALS schedule of trying for daily and actually making about 5 nights a week and also doing the Stop 2 or 3 nights a week.

Good grief, that is a lot of gadget time for the next month or two! And that is just with these two. I also want to add the Tua Viso but will refrain from purchasing until I get through the initial Stop series.

But who knows what you all will entice with me with next. I just KNOW something new will be on this forum within a month and I will just have to have it!!!! You are a bad influence, the whole gang of you! Razz

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:12 pm

starriest wrote:

What to do, what to do.... Before or after?!? Arghh...two reliable sources doing the opposite.

The Stop device is still so new, there is no specific set-in-stone routine. Using before, after, or on alternate days all make sense for different reasons, it probably depends on your goals. If it were me, I'd probably try it a couple weeks one way, then a couple weeks another way, and see which worked best. It might turn out not to make much of a difference either way.

And, boy do I hear you about this forum being a bad influence Laughing

Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:25 pm

Is the STOP similar to a Dermawand?

free skin care · Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:41 pm

I think because so many of us who are using STOP as well as LED's and other gadgets, should really toss a few ideas around, and see what looks right.. I am really mixed up about it, and would love to hear everybody elses thoughts..

Maybe using 2 gadgets a night, that are both meant to stimulate collagen production is overkill.. Then again, it might be a powerhouse, and really get things going.

Then we have to consider if using two devices which goes first.. LED's for instance; A good argument for using it after STOP is that it would reduce inflammation. But at the same time we don't want to interrupt the slight wounding/healing process that is suppose to stimulate the collagen... Now we consider using the LED before the STOP. My thought of doing it this way, was that perhaps the warmth and lights, would stimulate the deep layers of the skin, and boost the effects of the STOP.

Now lets throw some other popular gadgets into the mix, that also claim to have a positive effect on collagen; Tua Viso, Dermal Tone, NuFace, Face Master, Galvanic (?)...

So how do we figure out a good treatment schedule, that will give us optimal results, from a number of gadgets.. Also a good many of us are also doing some form of facial exercise program, and have to fit that into the mix as well..

For me, I want to be able to use the STOP, Tua Viso + LED.. As for the facial exercise, realistically I will probably do it maybe twice per week, but I'll do massage 3 or 4 times..

Sometimes I think doing one gadget each night is the way to go, which would cover 6 night 2 X each.. But then I think that maybe doing 2 gadgets a night, with every other day off is a better idea, which would allow a good recovery/healing/collagen building process...

Well as you can plainly see, I was no help at all, and don't have a clue what the heck to do .. Rolling Eyes

Who's next? ... Anxious

Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:19 am

well, i'm already using the ultrasound + LED every day (sort of like a first thing - clean drive some serum in) - and i plan on keeping that. ditto the facial exercises that i just started. i also do microcurrent.

so order-wise
i was thinking on the days i do stop (2,3 days apart) i would do it it first, then go in with the ultrasound - take advantage of the conductive gel already on my face, clean it out, and for the little that my tiny LEDs can do - ease up the surface inflammation (remember that where the STOP is supposed to work is in the deeper layers).

there is something on the site about either completing the microcurrent protocol (which is not my case since - i have mine for ongoing use, usually 3 days apart) or alternating with the STOP. which is what i plan to do.

the microcurrent should, in theory, also work great with the facial exercises since it aims to get the muscle in top condition - so it should complement efforts to remold it.

and through it all, continuing with topicals: retinA evenings, alternting CPs and CE Ferulic mornings and plenty of emu oil at all times.
oh and the occasional mini-peel (glycolic 35% or salicylic 20%)

bit of overkill maybe but for now that's my proposed routine.

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:18 am

Maybe Halina, co-owner of Win Health can chime in on the subject. It's possible she uses other gadgets too as I do know she sells the UP5. I don't plan on giving that up along with my LED just not sure what routine I will come up with once my STOP arrives.

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:27 am

Last night after 'Low' shared the contact info for the good Dr, I wrote an email asking a couple of questions.. I just got a response, and wanted to share it here, in case it's helpful to anyone.

I wrote;

Name: Katherine XXXXX
confirmemail: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
City/State: Florida
Country: United States of America

Comments: Hello, I just purchased the "STOP" RF device for at home use.
After reading this site, I am leary that this will cause me to lose the little 'wanted' fat that is in my face.. How can one device target fat, and the same technology for at home use, leave the fat intact? I would also like to use my device every other day, is that okay? And is it okay to do a lengthy 30 or 40 minute treatment on my face and neck, or is that too much?

Thank you for answering my questions. Katherine XXXXX

The Answer;

Dear Ms XXXXX,

Thank you very much for your inquiry regarding the new and innovative STOP™ clinical skin renewal device.

In answer to your queries; STOP™ clinical skin renewal device is indicated for facial tightening, toning and the generation of new collagen and as such, the technical parameters of the device have been adjusted to stimulate collagen in the dermal layer and not go deeper into the hypodermis (location of the fat cells). The set parameters of the STOP™ device (in terms of power, treatment time and the warming effect) are not adequate for treatments on the fat layer. The TriPollar™ energy induces an increase in dermal activity resulting in the stimulation of collagen production and thickening of the dermis (the skin’s foundation of elastin and collagen) leading to visible skin tightening, firming and renewal without any loss in facial fat. Firming and tightening effect can be augmented by concentrating mainly on the periorbital area, perioral area and jaw line. You may also perform a 'lifting' motion, directing the movements from the center outwards.

Treatment protocol with the STOP™ device is 2-3 times a week with one day intervals between each treatment. It is recommended to let the skin rest one day in between each treatment in order to allow the natural process of the skin’s collagen renewal to take full effect.

You may lengthen the facial treatment time by few more minutes according to your skin tolerance, wherein finishing the treatment by performing the ‘lifting’ motion described above. This movement ensures that the optimal treatment temperature is achieved over the entire area. When treating the neck in addition to the face you will end up lengthening your treatment time by 5 minutes or so.

Should you feel that you need further information or have any questions regarding that which I have sent, please feel free to contact me anytime.

COLLEEN XXXXXXX
Customer Relations
Manager

Ultragen Ltd.

6 Kaufman Street, Gibor House

PO Box 50320

Tel Aviv 68012 Israel

T: +972 3 510 4110 ext 105

F: +972 3 510 4112

M: +972 54 310 0140

E: colleen_c@ultra-gen.com

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:42 am

Kassy,

WOW!

That's great that you got a response, and so quickly!

Honestly, I feel more confident hearing it straight from them (that the heat doesn't reach the fat layers) then I do just hearing it from the resellers.

Now I just want to see how well it works for everyone here.

Producing new collagen and thickening the dermis is pretty much my main concern right now. I know that those things will partly be addressed with Ageless, but depending on the success rate of users here, the more dramatic results might be worth it.

I'm going to be seeing some family next summer that I haven't seen for years, and I desperately want to reverse some damage and NOT look haggard Neutral

... so, I'm keeping my fingers crossed Smile

Kassy_A wrote:

Last night after 'Low' shared the contact info for the good Dr, I wrote an email asking a couple of questions.. I just got a response, and wanted to share it here, in case it's helpful to anyone.

I wrote;

Name: Katherine XXXXX
confirmemail: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
City/State: Florida
Country: United States of America

Comments: Hello, I just purchased the "STOP" RF device for at home use.
After reading this site, I am leary that this will cause me to lose the little 'wanted' fat that is in my face.. How can one device target fat, and the same technology for at home use, leave the fat intact? I would also like to use my device every other day, is that okay? And is it okay to do a lengthy 30 or 40 minute treatment on my face and neck, or is that too much?

Thank you for answering my questions. Katherine XXXXX

The Answer;

Dear Ms XXXXX,

Thank you very much for your inquiry regarding the new and innovative STOP™ clinical skin renewal device.

In answer to your queries; STOP™ clinical skin renewal device is indicated for facial tightening, toning and the generation of new collagen and as such, the technical parameters of the device have been adjusted to stimulate collagen in the dermal layer and not go deeper into the hypodermis (location of the fat cells). The set parameters of the STOP™ device (in terms of power, treatment time and the warming effect) are not adequate for treatments on the fat layer. The TriPollar™ energy induces an increase in dermal activity resulting in the stimulation of collagen production and thickening of the dermis (the skin’s foundation of elastin and collagen) leading to visible skin tightening, firming and renewal without any loss in facial fat. Firming and tightening effect can be augmented by concentrating mainly on the periorbital area, perioral area and jaw line. You may also perform a 'lifting' motion, directing the movements from the center outwards.

Treatment protocol with the STOP™ device is 2-3 times a week with one day intervals between each treatment. It is recommended to let the skin rest one day in between each treatment in order to allow the natural process of the skin’s collagen renewal to take full effect.

You may lengthen the facial treatment time by few more minutes according to your skin tolerance, wherein finishing the treatment by performing the ‘lifting’ motion described above. This movement ensures that the optimal treatment temperature is achieved over the entire area. When treating the neck in addition to the face you will end up lengthening your treatment time by 5 minutes or so.

Should you feel that you need further information or have any questions regarding that which I have sent, please feel free to contact me anytime.

COLLEEN XXXXXXX
Customer Relations
Manager

Ultragen Ltd.

6 Kaufman Street, Gibor House

PO Box 50320

Tel Aviv 68012 Israel

T: +972 3 510 4110 ext 105

F: +972 3 510 4112

M: +972 54 310 0140

E: colleen_c@ultra-gen.com

Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:44 am

Hi,

I am a new member, after reading good reviews about STOP on this forum, I ordered it on 13th Jan, but there is some problem with shipment and I am still waiting for it. Customer service at win-health is very good but they don't know when my issue will be resolved.

Does anyone else had the same problem?

free skin care · Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:46 am

Frodo wrote:

Maybe Halina, co-owner of Win Health can chime in on the subject. It's possible she uses other gadgets too as I do know she sells the UP5. I don't plan on giving that up along with my LED just not sure what routine I will come up with once my STOP arrives.

Halina has decided not to join the forum, and her reasons are explained in this email from her;

Kathy - I have decided against joining the forum. My presence there and participation in discussions could be interpreted by some parties (i.e. Competitors) as commercially motivated and could be discredited. This would not be good to anyone. Hence - it is best that I stay away and I answer individual customer questions as they are put to us via e-mails. We are allowed to perform customer service - such as answering questions about the product. Anything other than that could be deemed as unethical. By joining the forum, I could do a great injustice to the device and also to myself and our company. I hope you can understand my position.

Here is the contact info:

halina.wooldridge@win-health.com

roy.wooldridge@win-health.com

She does follow the forum, and is interested in all we have to say on the subject of 'STOP'.. It also seems to me they are working dilligently to address/fix/change any problems or inconviences we have mentioned in this thread, as well as emails, i.e. US adapters, making the gels more affordable for us etc, answering all inquiries etc..

I'll be happy to share any emails that come my way from her, and it would be great if we all do that... So many times, we all have the same questions floating around our little brains.. Confused

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