Another Gadget, TriPollar STOP
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free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:52 am

I have an wellbox and honestly if has done nothing for me. It used it for about 6 weeks on my face neck and upper arms. The upper arms may have lost a little crepiness but honestly IMO it is so time consuming I can't be bothered.
Facial exercises have been far more significant to me than the exy wellbox

Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:29 am

PhilipWB wrote:

41yearsyoung wrote:

PhilipWB wrote:

Bethany wrote:

Quote:

Philip - that is a great choice. Skin can only remodel so quickly, and all these tools, etc., can really fatigue your skin. That's also why I will not dermaroll more than every 3-6 months now.

Plus, one of the things I have been thinking about is how does the STOP keep new collagen from shrinking? Embarassed

I really don't think it can be that selective. So if you use it weekly (or even every 2 weeks), aren't you really just shrinking the collagen that you just developed? Confused

Bethany, I totally agree, I think I am going to spoil my skin with lots of nice creams and pump it with moisture and give it time to rest.

I did buy a Wellbox about a year ago when they were first released in the UK. I used the firming program on my face and neck the other evening and the firming was very noticeable and my skin was glowing. I will give STOP and a rest and start using the Wellbox in about a month.

I need to focus on the garden for a while. Smile

PWB.

I am totally interested in the Wellbox and would love to hear how this works for you. Can you keep us updated. Is it for the face only or also for body. I have a brochure from a conference but it is in French and I didn't get too much out of it. I have heard some interesting this about it. But did hear that it take much more time that what the POSE is claiming. Also, being an LPG product I am worried about later sagging due to the suction, especially on the face. Facial skin is so delicate that the suction has to have an affect eventually wherein creating some kind of increased sagging after time. Where with the STOP, from what I have read only works under the skin to build up the collagen in the dermis. Very interested in your comments. Cheers!

I am finding the Wellbox an interesting piece of equipment, will keep you updated, but my experience is the skin feels VERY taught, firm and radiant when treating the face, the Wellbox doesn't really suck the skin but gently pinches it.

I ordered my POSE today from STOP, should get it early April, so will report back on that too.

Off to do some dermarolling.

Philip

I am going to put in my order for the POSE from WinHealth today (my hubby doesn't know yet...will fill him in shortly...hopefully I won't get too many objections Confused

) I am so excited, too excited. I just hope my excitement doesn't hinder my expectations. I will keep a detailed diary (pictures and measurements) of the experiance to share. Are you going to create another thread for POSE or do we keep chatting about the STOP and POSE together here? I am not sure how all this works yet. I am guessing that I will receive the device in April or so from what I read on the company website (too bad I can't get the discount, but I understand, just need to be thankful I can get it). Well it will be just in time to start working for bikini season. By end of summer we hope to go to the South of Spain so I want to be ready for my two piece and flaunt my new bod all over that beach. Yeah, I definitely think my expectations are set too high. LOL! Anyway, it makes a good start to the weekend just to daydream about it. Good weekend to all.

Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:02 am

You guys are really freaking me out now... as another one still using the STOP. Having done 17 treatments with some results, I am now in the so-called maintenance mode as well. I have had a little tightening round the jaw and the skin feels a little less loose on the cheeks. Nothing much in reduction of lines though I did think some had improved. Not so sure now. In fact, the results on lines seem to be pretty transient. Anyway, I wonder if any of you spotted this on Win Health's help page? Q4 How often should STOP be used? "After the initial course as recommended,the STOP should be used for maintenance and enhancement of outcome once every couple of weeks or as desired. THERE ARE NO LIMITS ON THE USE OF THE STOP DEVICE (my caps) So there we are... keep on cooking ??????

Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:12 am

Suffragette wrote:

You guys are really freaking me out now... as another one still using the STOP. Having done 17 treatments with some results, I am now in the so-called maintenance mode as well. I have had a little tightening round the jaw and the skin feels a little less loose on the cheeks. Nothing much in reduction of lines though I did think some had improved. Not so sure now. In fact, the results on lines seem to be pretty transient. Anyway, I wonder if any of you spotted this on Win Health's help page? Q4 How often should STOP be used? "After the initial course as recommended,the STOP should be used for maintenance and enhancement of outcome once every couple of weeks or as desired. THERE ARE NO LIMITS ON THE USE OF THE STOP DEVICE (my caps) So there we are... keep on cooking ??????

Maintenance I think can be interpreted as...we ALL never stop ageing. Thank god there are ways to try to hold those years off on our faces and body. Some have good genes that can help for a while but most of us will always need just a little extra help. With any treatment we choose I don't any of them are a one shot deal since we will continue to go the way nature takes us. I wouldn't look at is as a bad thing having to do maintenance. And what is this cooking thing? From everything that I have read about this TriPollar technology, it is not cooking anything, renewal collagen growth and strengthing the elastin which contracts making the skin tighter by stimulation from the heat. It isn't cooking or killing any thing off. From what I read about the technology regards POSE is quite interesting too. Of course most of what I have read is about the professsional devices, but I am sure it is based on the same theory. I am VERY excited!

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:24 am

41yearsyoung - cooking skin is not literally cooking, and rather a broad term for heating skin. You can feel skin getting warm during such treatments. It can be achieved in different ways, for example by using RF in case of Stop. Another example would be using hot towels Laughing

Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:51 am

mpstat wrote:

41yearsyoung - cooking skin is not literally cooking, and rather a broad term for heating skin. You can feel skin getting warm during such treatments. It can be achieved in different ways, for example by using RF in case of Stop. Another example would be using hot towels Laughing

LOL...I did not know that. It just sounded very scary, being cooked. Shock

Thanks for the explanation.

Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:31 am

I must admit, I am getting rather mixed up. I am in maintenance, 1 treatment last week. Now my face seems to look the same as before using STOP with just a very small tightening under my chin/jowls and under my eyes and a tiny bit better forehead.
The good results must have been from the swelling. So is this it? Does it get better with maintenance, or am I maintaining just what I have, which is very little of nothing. Am I waiting for the collagen to be enhanced? I am not telling anybody I have used anything as I look no different now. So does maintenance mean I will get better results? Confused........

temptation to get Botox

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:29 am

Well, I'm going to wait several months, at least, before ordering the POSE. I want to see others' responses. Also, I'm wondering if the fat that the POSE helps you take off will be replaced immediately upon eating.
Question

Inky

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:41 am

I did not experience decline in achieved results once I got into maintenance, although I have not been in maintenance long enough (long enough would be months). I posted in the beginning of the thread when I just started the treatments that if I to retain a part of the results it would be good. Since the age process will continue with the time passing by I intend on repeating the treatment series after some time spent in maintenance.

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:36 am

sunnygirl wrote:

The good results must have been from the swelling. So is this it?

Yes, the initial results you saw may have been due to inflammation.

However, I think the real potential of the Stop lies in collagen production. And, since collagen takes a minimum of 3 months to form, now you just have to monitor your progress over the next few months and see what happens. It's been noted that not everyone gets the immediate tightening effect, so I wouldn't write it off just yet. If it were me, I would definitely consider doing far less for "maintenance" than Stop recommends (I'd probably do once a month, no more). But that is entirely up to you.

Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:37 am

Hi Mpstat, are you saying that you will do maintenance for so many weeks and then repeat the whole 15-18 treatments again like every other day? Or do maintenance every 7 days?

Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:44 am

I understand now, I will do maintenance about every 2 weeks. I do like the treatment and my face and neck look really good afterwards and the next day or so.

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:03 am

sunnygirl wrote:

Hi Mpstat, are you saying that you will do maintenance for so many weeks and then repeat the whole 15-18 treatments again like every other day? Or do maintenance every 7 days?

The first one. I will do maintenance for some number of weeks and after that will repeat intense 15-18 treatments.

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:06 am

InkyProse wrote:

Well, I'm going to wait several months, at least, before ordering the POSE. I want to see others' responses. Also, I'm wondering if the fat that the POSE helps you take off will be replaced immediately upon eating.
Question

Inky

Inky - the POSE tightens the collagen and skin. Eating has nothing to do with it, unless you overeat and gain weight.

You might want to read the "How does it work" section on their website.

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:27 am

bethany wrote:

InkyProse wrote:

Well, I'm going to wait several months, at least, before ordering the POSE. I want to see others' responses. Also, I'm wondering if the fat that the POSE helps you take off will be replaced immediately upon eating.
Question

Inky

Inky - the POSE tightens the collagen and skin. Eating has nothing to do with it, unless you overeat and gain weight.

You might want to read the "How does it work" section on their website.

Thanks Bethany; big duh there. I think I'll mosey on over to their website and see if I can understand anything about the POSE.

I have to admit, I am a pretty well educated person, but some of you cookies are pretty smart and I have a hard time staying up with you-- especially the legitimately scientific ones. Thanks so much for your time on here.

Inky

Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:06 am

Sunnygirl, you took the words right out of my mouth! When i said "carry on cooking" I was referring to the notion that constantly heating up the old and new collagen might be counter-productive, (the Shrinky Dink scenario...)I want this thing to work! Don't we all, but I am a bit wary of over use. I don't know if the results I see now are the best I can hope for. Will there be a significant improvement in the next couple of months? Does anyone have the answer based on usage longer than say 2 months?

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:27 pm

Here is another interesting discussion regarding the manner in which heat affects collagen. It's a discussion of corneal tissue, but appears to be valid with respect to collagen in general. Look for the section titled:
"The Effect of Heat and Time on Collagen Structure"

http://books.google.com/books?id=1Rk8sry8Sx4C&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=heat+collagen+contract&source=bl&ots=CZ6oLPaPhl&sig=afybSh-VRHU3PWVcut9dzCatCNw&hl=en&ei=-gbESdr3NorinQetw_GfDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA11,M1

(I hope I'm not boring people by posting these studies; it's helpful to me to be able to envision how something like STOP might affect collagen...)

Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:21 pm

Don't apologise for posting references. What we need are more un-biased and independent studies on the subject! My query over the usage of STOP for maintenance came about when I saw that Win Health stated one could use it almost as much as in the initial stages and there was no limit! I don't think I'll be following that route...

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:52 pm

Suffragette wrote:

Don't apologise for posting references. What we need are more un-biased and independent studies on the subject! My query over the usage of STOP for maintenance came about when I saw that Win Health stated one could use it almost as much as in the initial stages and there was no limit! I don't think I'll be following that route...

Good, I agree. As a follow-up, the recommended collagen-contraction heat range of 75 - 80 degrees Celsius discussed in the article above (re corneal collagen) is potentially hot enough to burn skin (see http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/156/6/841.pdf for discussion of water temperatures hot enough to produce scald injuries). This sounds more like what Titan does. I wonder if STOP produces enough heat to denature, but not enough to produce the ideal collagen contraction? Also, one of the articles cited above notes that as the collagen denatures, its conductivity is reduced. I don't know if this applies to RF, or just to electrical impulses, but if applicable, it could affect the efficacy of subsequent treatments. (I'm aware that all the variables involved make this purely speculative, but it is interesting...)

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:27 pm

Suffragette wrote:

Don't apologise for posting references. What we need are more un-biased and independent studies on the subject! My query over the usage of STOP for maintenance came about when I saw that Win Health stated one could use it almost as much as in the initial stages and there was no limit! I don't think I'll be following that route...

Win-Halth just wants you to buy more cream and gel from them, lol.

That is NOT what the STOP manual recommends...I also verified with Ultragen that unlimited usage is not recommended.

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:28 pm

tessera wrote:

(I hope I'm not boring people by posting these studies; it's helpful to me to be able to envision how something like STOP might affect collagen...)

I read the other one earlier today...I think the more we know, the safer we are. So THANKS for sharing! Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:13 pm

This paper contains some good info on collagen denaturing:

http://www.freshpatents.com/Method-and-apparatus-for-treating-wrinkles-in-skin-using-radiation-dt20081030ptan20080269733.php

As far as I am aware, the information given on professional treatments such as Thermage states that real results will not be seen until six months after the treatment has taken place. Immediate results are never guaranteed. So I would presume that this would also apply to STOP.

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:36 pm

Some more crumbs of information (yes, I'm still obsessing about the temperature to which STOP heats the collagen):

Thermage heats up the skin up to 60 degrees. There are other RF skin-tightening procedures, their heating capacity not as intense but requires several sessions nonetheless to yield the effect of one Thermage procedure such as Refirme ST, Accent, Tenor, Tripollar. http://services.inquirer.net/print/print.php?article_id=20081205-176145

When you heat collagen and elastin to 66 degrees centigrade, the collagen and elastin fibers shrink or tighten, and are remodeled with new collagen and elastin formation. The effect of this skin tightening and new collagen and elastin formation is that the deep dermis contracts and becomes firmer and the loose tissue is tightened.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Skin-Tightening---How-Laser-Treatments-Firm-Your-Face-and-Stomach%26id=1988249

Collagen resides between 2 - 3 mm below the skin's surface. When the collagen is heated to between 45-60 degrees Celsius, the coiled-triple-helix collagen molecule actually contracts. When this contraction occurs, there are new "intrafibrillar" spaces that open up, "heat shock proteins" are released, and the body responds by creating new collagen fibers.
http://www.realself.com/question/facial-firming-accent-laser-vs-refirm

I,[meaning me, Tess], haven't been able to find any information on the temperature to which STOP heats the collagen. Does anyone else have that? Also, I don't get how repeated treatments at a lower temperature can equate to fewer treatments at a higher temperature, given that the collagen response varies dependent on the temperature.

Also, I did see one mention of someone who believes she developed wrinkles as a result of two weeks of STOP use, but she didn't provide any additional information. I also found this interesting:

Radiofrequency causes movement of charged particles within the tissue, and the resultant molecular motion generates heat. The heat in turn causes collagen shrinkage and new collagen deposition. Based on our findings, younger patients tend to respond better. This is not surprising, since heat-labile collagen bonds are progressively replaced by irreducible multivalent cross-links as the tissue ages. [Re Thermage]
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL%26_udi=B75K6-4K3KHCF-5%26_user=10%26_rdoc=1%26_fmt=%26_orig=search%26_sort=d%26view=c%26_acct=C000050221%26_version=1%26_urlVersion=0%26_userid=10%26md5=02ca0156356545b485644db58c2fb417

Dang those irreducible multivalent cross-links! Mad

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:41 pm

Keliu wrote:

This paper contains some good info on collagen denaturing:

http://www.freshpatents.com/Method-and-apparatus-for-treating-wrinkles-in-skin-using-radiation-dt20081030ptan20080269733.php

Thanks for the reference; my server keeps timing out so I haven't been able to read it yet, but soon...

free skin care · Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:45 pm

tessera wrote:

I,[meaning me, Tess], haven't been able to find any information on the temperature to which STOP heats the collagen. Does anyone else have that? Also, I don't get how repeated treatments at a lower temperature can equate to fewer treatments at a higher temperature, given that the collagen response varies dependent on the temperature.

I think you have hit on the "six million dollar question".

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