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Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:18 pm |
jom wrote: |
Do you consider the skin strengthening complex to be a moisturizer?
What do you think of the Canyon Ranch products? Have you looked at them? |
I do think the Nia24 SSC is a moisturizer...it has a number of oils, ceramides, etc. Plus it also has retinol, HA and peptides.
Skin Strengthening Complex — Ingredients
Ingredients: Water (Aqua, Eau), Myristyl Nicotinate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Hydrogenated Polyisobutene, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Cyclomethicone, Squalane, Butylene Glycol, Dimethicone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Glyceryl Stearate SE, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Oenothera Biennis (Evening Primrose) Oil, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Germ Oil, Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Extract, Ranunculus Ficaria Extract, Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Seed Extract, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Myristica Fragrans (Nutmeg) Kernel Extract, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopherol, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Ceramide 2, PEG-10 Rapeseed Sterol, Phospholipids, Ceramide 3, Dimethicone Crosspolymer-3, Tribehenin, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polysorbate 60, Laureth-7, Maltol, 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclotridecane, PEG-8, Methyldihydrojasmonate, Polyacrylamide, Oxacyclohexadecen-2-one, BHT, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate.
I read Dr. Baumann's review of the Canyon Ranch products, which she does recommend since they contain Pro-NAD. But the prices are very high, and they do not disclose the % of Pro-NAD. The Canyon Ranch Age Transforming Concentrate Serum ($150) says it contains "clinical strength" Pro-NAD, but the only way I would consider trying it is if we knew the % of Pro-Nad was higher than in the Nia24 SSC (5%). But the Pro-NAD is pretty strong stuff...it is better to work up in strength/usage frequency anyway.
http://health.yahoo.com/experts/skintype/14729/the-best-ingredient-for-skin-protection/
http://www.skinstore.com/canyon-ranch.aspx |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:21 pm |
NOTCH wrote: |
Hi fat_swan! If...all the ingredients you would like to blend in are "oil soluble" then you could theoretically make your own version. If the ingredients are water soluble, then the components won't mix in. But, you can use the percentages I have listed in the above post to make a somewhat similar version, using Macadamia Oil for the fatty acids, Jojoba Esters for the wax esters, and Squalene (if you can find it) for the Squalene.
John |
Thanks John! From what I understand Macadamia Oil, Jojoba Ester and Squalene are all oils, so wouldn't they all be oil soluble and be able to mix together?? And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane? And does Jojoba Oil contain Jojoba Esters? Thanks again! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:26 pm |
This article by Dr Baumann, in which she recommends the patented ingredient pro-NAD (as found in NIA24 and Canyon Ranch products), was posted on EDS forum in February and is discussed in this thread
- Why pro-NAD is better than niacinamide
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=32567&highlight=pronad |
_________________ Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:33 pm |
fat_swan wrote: |
And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane? |
While we all wait for John's expertise, I'll just tell you the little I know;
Squalene; This is he real deal, and extracted from a sharks liver.. Many people, myself included, shudder at the thought..
Squalane; Is the 'maybe good enough' version extracted from olives... |
_________________ ♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:38 pm |
bethany wrote: |
jom wrote: |
Do you consider the skin strengthening complex to be a moisturizer?
What do you think of the Canyon Ranch products? Have you looked at them? |
I do think the Nia24 SSC is a moisturizer...it has a number of oils, ceramides, etc. Plus it also has retinol, HA and peptides.
Skin Strengthening Complex — Ingredients
Ingredients: Water (Aqua, Eau), Myristyl Nicotinate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Hydrogenated Polyisobutene, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Cyclomethicone, Squalane, Butylene Glycol, Dimethicone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Glyceryl Stearate SE, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Oenothera Biennis (Evening Primrose) Oil, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Germ Oil, Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Extract, Ranunculus Ficaria Extract, Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Seed Extract, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Myristica Fragrans (Nutmeg) Kernel Extract, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopherol, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Ceramide 2, PEG-10 Rapeseed Sterol, Phospholipids, Ceramide 3, Dimethicone Crosspolymer-3, Tribehenin, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polysorbate 60, Laureth-7, Maltol, 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclotridecane, PEG-8, Methyldihydrojasmonate, Polyacrylamide, Oxacyclohexadecen-2-one, BHT, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate.
I read Dr. Baumann's review of the Canyon Ranch products, which she does recommend since they contain Pro-NAD. But the prices are very high, and they do not disclose the % of Pro-NAD. The Canyon Ranch Age Transforming Concentrate Serum ($150) says it contains "clinical strength" Pro-NAD, but the only way I would consider trying it is if we knew the % of Pro-Nad was higher than in the Nia24 SSC (5%). But the Pro-NAD is pretty strong stuff...it is better to work up in strength/usage frequency anyway.
http://health.yahoo.com/experts/skintype/14729/the-best-ingredient-for-skin-protection/
http://www.skinstore.com/canyon-ranch.aspx |
Thanks for the info. This may be a little off topic but I have another question for you. Is it true that AHAs deactivate Retin A? If someone were to use a toner that had glycolic and salicyclic acids in it, wait for it to dry, and then use Retin A micro over it, would the Retin A be deactivated? Thanks. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:44 pm |
Kassy_A wrote: |
NOTCH wrote: |
Hope this helps, and if you need further technical answers, don't hesitate to ask.
John |
Wonderful info John, thanks for sharing!
In looking at the list of "fatty acids" you shared, I couldn't help being reminded of Avocado Oil, and just wanted to ask why you might have overlooked it... It's comprised of;
Typically avocado oil contains the following fatty acid:
palmitic
palmitoleic
stearic
oleic
linoleic
linolenic.
And is also a rich and nourishing oil that deeply penetrates into deep skin tissue. It is rich in vitamins A, B1, B2 and D, lecithin, potassium as well as vitamin E.
http://www.dermaxime.com/avocado.htm (Much more available with a quick google)
Anyhoo, I would love to hear your thoughts on Avocado Oil, and what you would suggest adding to it, to make it even better.. Would Jojoba fit the bill?
Thanks John! |
Yes, Jojoba Oil would be an excellent addition to avocado oil, if you like using that oil, as the people who use it on your linked website obviously do.
However, I think they should add "percentage" values next to their fatty acid profile of avocado in order to more clearly explain the properties of the oil.
According to my technical source at the "Seed Oil Research Group" of the United States Department of Agriculture, in Peoria, Illinois, avocado oil has the following fatty acid composition:
Palmitic: trace
Palmitoleic: trace
Stearic: 20%
Oleic: 70%
Linoleic: 10%
Linolenic: trace
It is OK for the website to claim that palmitic, palmitoleic, and linolenic exists in avocado oil, since gas chromatograph research does show "trace" amounts. But, trace amounts are not very beneficial in the overall scheme of things. Macadamia would still be my first choice over Avocado for a skin friendly, deeply penetrating emollient oil, especially since the 10% polyunsaturate fats makes avocado an inherently unstable oil.
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:54 pm |
Kassy_A wrote: |
fat_swan wrote: |
And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane? |
While we all wait for John's expertise, I'll just tell you the little I know;
Squalene; This is he real deal, and extracted from a sharks liver.. Many people, myself included, shudder at the thought..
Squalane; Is the 'maybe good enough' version extracted from olives... |
INCORRECT KASSY in one important aspect...
Yes, squalene can be obtained from shark liver. But, nobody in the cosmetic industry, especially me, is willing to use any sort of animal product to ethically make cosmetics.
Squalene...IS FOUND AND DERIVED FROM Olive Oil. There is no doubt about it. If you care to give me an e-mail address, I'll send you technical information from the B & T company from Italy who produces it from Olive Oil sources.
Squalane, is the "fully hydrogenated" version of squalene. Since it has no double bonds in the chain, and is fully hydrogenated, the properties are different from squalene. Only squalene can be used to replicate the function and activity of skin squalene. And, I only use Olive Oil derived squalene. Please, do more research before making certain comments. The internet is already ripe with misinformation and we certainly don't need any more.
If anyone else wants the technical information on olive oil derived squalene from the B & T company, don't hesitate to ask. I'll send it right over.
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:57 pm |
Actually, to quickly stop anymore internet misinformation, I thought it would be best to post the B & T link to squalene here for everyone to read and understand...
http://www.btcompany.com/dermolene.asp
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:08 pm |
fat_swan wrote: |
NOTCH wrote: |
Hi fat_swan! If...all the ingredients you would like to blend in are "oil soluble" then you could theoretically make your own version. If the ingredients are water soluble, then the components won't mix in. But, you can use the percentages I have listed in the above post to make a somewhat similar version, using Macadamia Oil for the fatty acids, Jojoba Esters for the wax esters, and Squalene (if you can find it) for the Squalene.
John |
Thanks John! From what I understand Macadamia Oil, Jojoba Ester and Squalene are all oils, so wouldn't they all be oil soluble and be able to mix together?? And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane? And does Jojoba Oil contain Jojoba Esters? Thanks again! |
Yes, all of them would be found in the "oil phase" of a cosmetic product. I was referring to the additives you may consider mixing with them. Actives can sometimes be oil soluble and sometimes water soluble. So it would be wise to check before you mix them with these known oils.
Ah!! Jojoba Oil....actually, it's not an "oil" at all! It is what is known as a liquid wax esters. Therefore, people who use this emollient, and no other "oils" could actually and truly make an "oil free" claim on their product. So, "Jojoba oil" is really "jojoba esters"....that's the correct cosmetic INCI name, and it is the correct scientific name as well.
The reason it is such a good occlusive material, trapping moisture at the skin surface is because of where it grows. Jojoba plants can be found in the deserts of the world, and most abundantly right here in the Phoenix area in the Sonoran Desert! It barely rains 7 inches a year here in the desert. So the jojoba plant has managed over tens of thousands of years to find a way to stop the little water it can find from evaporating out from itself....and that is the jojoba oil it produces. Other large crops can be found in the high deserts of South America, and the in the deserts around Israel.
Isn't nature fantastic??!!
Finally, squalene and squalane are two completely different compounds with different functions and activity. One cannot be substituted for the other and expect similar results. They are different.
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:11 pm |
jom wrote: |
Is it true that AHAs deactivate Retin A? If someone were to use a toner that had glycolic and salicyclic acids in it, wait for it to dry, and then use Retin A micro over it, would the Retin A be deactivated? Thanks. |
No, if anything the AHA would help the Retin A penetrate your skin better. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:00 pm |
Very interesting - the differenc between squalene and squalane and it sure does hit home when you think about how the jojoba plant retains moisture in an environment like the desert. So long as the dermis reacts the same or similar with the help of jojoba.
I've been using the Gold Bond lotion and you can definitely tell the moisture retaining properties (It contains jojoba). |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:18 am |
Will eye cream make our eyes drier as well? I feel my eyes are dry recently? |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:41 am |
The more I think about this, the more it doesn't seem to make sense. Aren't oils moisturizers as well? If according to Dr Obagi's theory, wouldn't using oils such as Macadamia, Jojoba, Squalene also make the skin lazy in producing it's own oils? So does this mean we should lay off everything that's emollient??
And out of curiosity, I checked out the oil section at my local health food store. The only Macadamia Oil and Jojoba Oil they carry are "cold pressed". Will this make a difference? TIA! |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:17 am |
fat_swan wrote: |
The more I think about this, the more it doesn't seem to make sense. Aren't oils moisturizers as well? If according to Dr Obagi's theory, wouldn't using oils such as Macadamia, Jojoba, Squalene also make the skin lazy in producing it's own oils? So does this mean we should lay off everything that's emollient??
And out of curiosity, I checked out the oil section at my local health food store. The only Macadamia Oil and Jojoba Oil they carry are "cold pressed". Will this make a difference? TIA! |
Hi fatswan, I don't have any comment on the Obaji or Hauschka philosophy,other than my own personal take that an absolutist stance on anything doesn't take into account the unique diversity of each and every human being. I don't plan to do away with applying oils or adhere to such "dogma" of any kind.
I do use jojoba and macademia nut oils a great deal; along with sunflower and avocado oil, but thanks to the scientific, rather than anecdotal evidence presented in this thread, I may start mixing avocado oil with macademia nut oil to increase absorption by the skin. Cold pressed, rather than refined will contain more properties that are beneficial to you because only mechanical means are used to extract the oil from the fruit (or nut). The more heat that's used to extract the oil,the greater the likelihood that beneficial properties will be destroyed. Similar to overcooking your veggies...
Look for cold pressed, extra virgin whenever possible. A great source of organic cold pressed carrier oils: http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/
I don't work for Mountain Rose herbs, but I love this company/their products, price and philosophy and shamelessly promote it whenever I get the chance... |
_________________ 44 – combo/oily skin with a tendency towards clogged pores. Thanks to EDS, tweaked my skincare routine and normalized skin… no more breakouts. PSF, silk powder, Janson Beckett, Cellbone, NIA24 are staples. |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:22 am |
NOTCH wrote: |
Next, look for a product that contains squalene. This is somewhat hard to do since squalene is being produced less and less by its traditional source, the olive oil producers. It's actually a bi-product of olive oil, but since olive oil sells far better than squalene, the producers have cut back on making it. But, it can be found in some cosmetic products. |
Hi John, sorry if this has been covered already (I haven't read this entire thread) but what are the differences between olive oil and squalene? Is squalene more difficult to product, more expensive, more time-consuming,is that why fewer producers of olive oil are offering this?
Thanks,
Athena |
_________________ 44 – combo/oily skin with a tendency towards clogged pores. Thanks to EDS, tweaked my skincare routine and normalized skin… no more breakouts. PSF, silk powder, Janson Beckett, Cellbone, NIA24 are staples. |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:02 pm |
NOTCH wrote: |
Kassy_A wrote: |
fat_swan wrote: |
And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane? |
While we all wait for John's expertise, I'll just tell you the little I know;
Squalene; This is he real deal, and extracted from a sharks liver.. Many people, myself included, shudder at the thought..
Squalane; Is the 'maybe good enough' version extracted from olives... |
INCORRECT KASSY in one important aspect...
Yes, squalene can be obtained from shark liver. But, nobody in the cosmetic industry, especially me, is willing to use any sort of animal product to ethically make cosmetics.
Squalene...IS FOUND AND DERIVED FROM Olive Oil. There is no doubt about it. If you care to give me an e-mail address, I'll send you technical information from the B & T company from Italy who produces it from Olive Oil sources.
Squalane, is the "fully hydrogenated" version of squalene. Since it has no double bonds in the chain, and is fully hydrogenated, the properties are different from squalene. Only squalene can be used to replicate the function and activity of skin squalene. And, I only use Olive Oil derived squalene. Please, do more research before making certain comments. The internet is already ripe with misinformation and we certainly don't need any more.
If anyone else wants the technical information on olive oil derived squalene from the B & T company, don't hesitate to ask. I'll send it right over.
John |
Don't kill the messenger Johnny Boy ..
I was simply answering a question based on the dreaded internet research.. (Which incidentally is in agreement with you on most points, so have I been plied once again with "misinformation"?)
Also, you can make your point without being so snippy and condescending, dontcha think?
Squalene vs. Squalane
Squalene (spelled with an "e") is an oil extracted from the liver of deep-water sharks. It helps increase immunity, prevent chronic illnesses, fight cancer and aging and helps strengthen the skin. Squalene works by releasing oxygen into the cells of the body, helping to prevent cell deterioration. Squalane has long been used in cosmetic preparations to soften skin, reduce fine lines and wrinkles, and as a bactericidal agent which speeds wound healing.
Squalane (spelled with an "a") has, essentially, the SAME chemical components, however, in vegan form, as extracted from olives. It is frequently (and incorrectly) referred to as squalene, when in fact, it has no shark liver oil components.
Another source of squalene is olive oil, which has been traditionally known for its health effects. This related compound -- squalane -- is used in skin care products and is more stable against oxidation.
http://www.spaindex.com/Shopping/BodyMooseYumYumFaceFood.htm
I love the stuff also!... |
_________________ ♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:31 am |
So other than some confusion regarding Emu Oil in general, where do Skin Biology products fit into this equation? Particularly CPs |
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Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:51 am |
Hello,
So... I think I should try an oil mix see what happens...
So I would use:
a. Jojoba
b. Macadamia
c. Squalene
Now... I've found that some websites sell "Jojoba oil", and others "Jojoba esters"... which one should I buy??
Thanks!! |
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Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:03 pm |
Hi Kassy_A, listen I would like to apologize to you if it seems like I'm being snippy. I'm not criticizing you at all. It's just that when I see something that IS misinformation, I try to squelch it as quickly as possible before it becomes an "internet truth" just like the bad rep that parabens now have.
You need to talk to whoever is in charge of the website that is publishing that information. Tell them (in a nice way) that the following is the TRUTH about squalene and squalane.
1) Squalene can be, and is, obtained from two sources. One source is deep sea shark liver. The other source is a minor constituent of olive oil. The olive oil producers used to refine this olive derived squalene, but lately, business has forced them to produce less and less. It is still available for cosmetic use, but it is expensive. Shark live squalene and olive oil derived squalene have the exact same chemical makeup. In that way, there is no difference.
2) Squalane is indeed sourced from olive oil. However, it starts out as squalene. Squalene has double bonds in it's carbon-carbon structure. By undergoing a process called hydrogenation, the double bonds in squalene are broken, and hydrogen atoms go on the carbon chain fully "saturating" every carbon. In organic chemistry, carbon chains that are fully saturated, with no double bonds are called "alkanes". Notice this word ends in "anes". Notice that "Squalane" ends in "anes", that's because it is a fully saturated chain with no double bonds. Carbon chains that have a double bond are called "alkenes". Notice that it ends in "enes". Notice the word "Squalene" ends in "enes". The reason for this wording, known as IUPAC nomenclature, is for a purpose: so you can identify from the common name whether something is an alkane or an alkene, and what the carbon-carbon structure will be.
3) Alkanes and Alkenes have completely different properties. Fully hydrogenated compounds (alkanes) can actually be solid! Alkenes on the other hand are more often liquid. Squalene has a lower viscosity (flows easier) than squalane because of this reason. Squalene penetrates the skin easier than squalane because of this reason. If you wanted to, you could make "squalane" out of shark liver "squalene" by fully hydrogenating that squalene....but nobody does. It is a chemical process that creates squalane, and it doesn't matter where the source material came from.
The bottom line is this: Squalene and Squalane are two completely different chemical compounds with completely different active and mechanical properties. They are not "the same" in any way, shape or form.
It's like saying gasoline and motor oil are the same thing! They are both long chain carbon compounds, both derived from heavy crude oil obtained from the earth. But, try pouring "motor oil" in your car's gas tank and see just how far it will run....
Josee: Jojoba Oil is "liquid wax ester". But, the Jojoba Oil itself is a low viscosity golden colored liquid. It is possible to "interesterify" jojoba oil so that it creates thicker "wax esters" with a high melting point. In this way it is actually possible to find "jojoba esters" that are still liquid, some melt at your skin temperature, and some are hard like a hard wax....yet they are all still known as jojoba esters. The way I make my products is with semi-soft wax versions that melt just above room temperature. It might be hard for you to find them as a private buyer. So, using Jojoba Oil itself will work, although it might make a rather low viscosity, thin mixture. If you are OK with that, rather than something a little more like a lotion or even a cream, them go ahead and use jojoba oil.
John |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:07 pm |
Alien wrote: |
So other than some confusion regarding Emu Oil in general, where do Skin Biology products fit into this equation? Particularly CPs |
Alien,
CPs are not moisturizers, so they really don't fit into this category. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:51 pm |
bethany wrote: |
jom wrote: |
Do you consider the skin strengthening complex to be a moisturizer?
What do you think of the Canyon Ranch products? Have you looked at them? |
I do think the Nia24 SSC is a moisturizer...it has a number of oils, ceramides, etc. Plus it also has retinol, HA and peptides.
Skin Strengthening Complex — Ingredients
Ingredients: Water (Aqua, Eau), Myristyl Nicotinate, Cyclopentasiloxane, Hydrogenated Polyisobutene, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Cyclomethicone, Squalane, Butylene Glycol, Dimethicone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Glyceryl Stearate SE, Cetyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Oenothera Biennis (Evening Primrose) Oil, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Germ Oil, Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Extract, Ranunculus Ficaria Extract, Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Seed Extract, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Myristica Fragrans (Nutmeg) Kernel Extract, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopherol, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Ceramide 2, PEG-10 Rapeseed Sterol, Phospholipids, Ceramide 3, Dimethicone Crosspolymer-3, Tribehenin, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polysorbate 60, Laureth-7, Maltol, 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclotridecane, PEG-8, Methyldihydrojasmonate, Polyacrylamide, Oxacyclohexadecen-2-one, BHT, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate.
I read Dr. Baumann's review of the Canyon Ranch products, which she does recommend since they contain Pro-NAD. But the prices are very high, and they do not disclose the % of Pro-NAD. The Canyon Ranch Age Transforming Concentrate Serum ($150) says it contains "clinical strength" Pro-NAD, but the only way I would consider trying it is if we knew the % of Pro-Nad was higher than in the Nia24 SSC (5%). But the Pro-NAD is pretty strong stuff...it is better to work up in strength/usage frequency anyway.
http://health.yahoo.com/experts/skintype/14729/the-best-ingredient-for-skin-protection/
http://www.skinstore.com/canyon-ranch.aspx |
Just an FYI - I found out the Canyon Ranch serum has 5% ProNad in it and the Restore Intensive Moisture and the body cream both have 3%. |
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Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:31 pm |
jom wrote: |
Just an FYI - I found out the Canyon Ranch serum has 5% ProNad in it and the Restore Intensive Moisture and the body cream both have 3%. |
So in terms of strength it's the same as NIA24 right? I wonder if anyone has tried both lines and can comment on the tactile quality of each brand...? |
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Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:53 pm |
fat_swan wrote: |
jom wrote: |
Just an FYI - I found out the Canyon Ranch serum has 5% ProNad in it and the Restore Intensive Moisture and the body cream both have 3%. |
So in terms of strength it's the same as NIA24 right? I wonder if anyone has tried both lines and can comment on the tactile quality of each brand...? |
Thanks Jom!!
Swan, here is the Nia24 info:
- Nia24 Skin Strengthening Compound (5% Pro-NAD)
- Nia24 Intensive Recovery Complex (5% Pro-NAD)
- Nia24 Sunscreen (5% Pro-NAD)
- Nia24 Eye Repair Complex (5% Pro-NAD)
- Nia24 Sun Damage Repair for Décolletage and Hands (2.5% Pro-NAD)
- Nia24 Physical Cleansing Scrub (1% Pro-NAD)
So the comparison to Canyon Ranch is:
- CR Serum (5% Pro-NAD) is equal to Nia24 SSC (5% Pro-NAD)
- CR Restore Intensive Moisture (3% Pro-NAD) is less than Nia24 Intensive Recovery Complex (5% Pro-NAD)
- CR Body Cream 3% Pro-NAD) is more than Nia24 Sun Damage Repair for Décolletage and Hands (2.5% Pro-NAD) |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:17 pm |
I was just reading the ZO Skin Health website. Dr. Obagi has a blog on there. I thought I would post his opinion on using oils on the face in case anyone was interested.
This is Obagi's take on using oils on the face (per the blog on ZO Skin Health website):
"I know people who use grapeseed oil, jojoba oil, avocado oil, you name it!!! But they have the same effect as moisturizers–or they’re worse!! They satiate the outermost layers of your skin, and then your own skin cells fail to capture moisture and deliver it to the surface of your skin. Be sure to use a product that stimulates your skin, and then it’s OK to use a moisturizer." |
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Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:33 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
I was just reading the ZO Skin Health website. Dr. Obagi has a blog on there. I thought I would post his opinion on using oils on the face in case anyone was interested.
This is Obagi's take on using oils on the face (per the blog on ZO Skin Health website):
"I know people who use grapeseed oil, jojoba oil, avocado oil, you name it!!! But they have the same effect as moisturizers–or they’re worse!! They satiate the outermost layers of your skin, and then your own skin cells fail to capture moisture and deliver it to the surface of your skin. Be sure to use a product that stimulates your skin, and then it’s OK to use a moisturizer." |
Thanks for that, rileygirl. I think that makes sense.
The information from Dr Obagi seems to be in line with the results from the Swedish study that this thread is based on.
The study showed that "both vegetable and mineral oils resulted in the skin being less able to cope with stresses" (quote), whereas "treatment with a complex compound resulted in more resistent skin without dryness" (quote). |
_________________ Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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