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Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:59 am |
bethany, keeping your emu oil refrigerated is good. Expecting it to last 18 months would be a miracle.
Now, here is information I bet few people know here and it is concerned with "antioxidants" like Vitamin E. If, an oil is inherently unstable, no amount of antioxidant added can keep it from eventually going rancid. As a matter of fact, adding antioxidants to unstable oils can often lead to being a "pro-oxidant" and accelerating the decay effect.
At a previous job with a raw material supplier, we had an analytical piece of equipment called the "OSI". It measured the Oxidative Stability Index of virtually any cosmetic oil we cared to test, and we used to test them ALL. It essentially bubbles pure oxygen into the heated oil, and it can determine exactly how fast the oil breaks down, and eventually lead us to a "shelf life" value. There is no way emu oil is going to last 18 months, I'm sorry to say.
We used to add every type of antioxidant we could find to unstable oils, in varying concentrations to see the effect. Virtually no anti-oxidant could stop the decay and rancid effect of an unstable oil.
So, keep in mind, even if you see antioxidants added into an unstable oil in an attempt to lure the consumer into believing it will be stable, this is just incorrect. As a matter of fact, doing so may even speed up the process.
Go ahead and use your Emu oil, but keep the lid on it at all times, keep it refrigerated, and use it quickly. Smell it from time to time. When you start getting that sharp, almost "rotten butter" type smell, then it is breaking down and is no longer the Emu oil you first purchased.
John |
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:36 pm |
John
Your knowledge on this forum is priceless! Thanks so much for sharing what you know. With all the misinformation that cosmetic companies blatantly distribute in their advertising, it is good to know that someone somewhere is interested in sharing the facts. In spite of your personal business interest, the information you have shared here is a breathe of fresh air to all the cosmetic hype. |
_________________ 62, dry skin prone to milia - why oh why can't I find skincare products I can rave about! |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:46 pm |
To pick up on a comment made earlier, how do oils like Rosehip Oil, Camellia Oil, Argan Oil fare? Are they oils that work towards promoting and reinforcing a more resistant barrier function or do they work against that goal? What about things like shea butter? |
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:03 pm |
NOTCH wrote: |
bethany, keeping your emu oil refrigerated is good. Expecting it to last 18 months would be a miracle.
John |
You gotta love marketing, lol...they pitch it as lasting that long, or I wouldn't be expecting that miracle. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:43 pm |
The oil that my body has responded the best to is mango oil. I have very dry skin and could not deal without using moisturizer. I also take EFA supplements and sometimes HA internally.
Now, I admit I haven't used mango oil straight but it was the primary ingredient in a The Body Shop dry oil spray they used to make. I stocked up when they discontinued it. But after I run out, I plan on buying some mango oil or butter from GOW or somewhere.
...Oh, dry brushing does help! |
_________________ 42yo, natural strawberry blonde so fair skin, blue-eyed, and dry skin |
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:57 pm |
Doesn't anyone think that the information you're getting here is going to be biased towards the ingredients he uses in his products?
As far as the drying thing, I've been using lotion for ages and my skin is still as oily as it was when I was a hormonal teenager. It's kind of hard to believe and there is always so much contradictory information that I'll tend to lean towards the opinions that best represent my experience. So I'm still using lotion. |
_________________ 36 year old mother of 2, oily skin, prone to break outs, wrinkles around the eyes, forehead wrinkles and laugh lines |
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Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:26 pm |
Jeeeez John, why didn't you continue posting with your "John C Hill" alias.
It seems you have some newer members thinking you're only interested in shilling your lovely products...
Bring back 'John C Hill'.... The guy with thousands of very informative posts..
And you should definitely take bethany's advice and put your info in the siggy.... You have nice products, and should shout it loud and clear. |
_________________ ♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:57 am |
Essential Oils
While going through this thread I noticed that the term, and concept, of essential oils is being misconstrued by some members here. I went through some of my cosmetic journals and found a couple of good definitions that will be useful.
First, before the definitions I'll give you a quick nutshell answer. Essential Oils are "fragrant" oils obtained from plants. Essentially (no pun intended!) if they give off an "essence", they are essential oils. THAT, is where the name comes from. It's NOT that the oil is something we essentially have to have on our skin, or something like that. These oils are "volatile" meaning that they evaporate and give off an aroma. Ingredients that evaporate do not stay on the skin for an extended period and thus, cannot do much for the skin. Rarely are they used by the big cosmetic houses unless they want to add an "aroma" to the formula, and since many people have allergies to fragrances, they consider adding them to be a problem. Usually, you will find essential oils in formulas from holistic practicioners and home formulators. The big cosmetic houses are not allowed to make any "healing" claims per FDA regulations, so they cannot use these and make label claims of healing. Thus, they rarely use them.
Most of the emollient oils that you find in creams and lotions are "triglyceride" oils, also know as "fixed oils". They do not evaporate. The stable, low in polyunsatured fatty acids do not smell at all. The inherently unstable emollient oils with high polyunsatured fatty acids start out with no odor. But, as they oxidize, they begin to give off a rancid smell. Other than triglyceride oils there are also wax esters like jojoba, and mineral oils, like mineral oil and petrolatum. None of these are "essential oils".
Definitions:
Essential oils
Volatile, fragrant oils obtained from plants. Essential oils are distinguished from those known as fixed oils, which are mainly triglycerides of fatty acids. Essential oils have been obtained from over 3000 plants and are designated and defined by the plant species and sometimes the geographical location. The sources of these oils are diverse, including flower petals (for example, rose and jasmine), spices (cinnamon and ginger), pine oil and turpentine, and citrus fruit peels. Compounds present in the juice that may contribute to the distinctive flavor of a fruit or berry are not, strictly speaking, components of the essential oil. Chemically, essential oils are extremely complex mixtures containing compounds of every major functional-group class. The oils are isolated by steam distillation, extraction, or mechanical expression of the plant material; often only certain parts, such as roots, buds, leaves, or flower petals, are used. Essential oils have been produced and used for flavoring, incense, and medicinal purposes for many centuries.
Essential oil: An oil derived from a natural substance, usually either for its healing properties or as a perfume. Some pharmaceuticals, and many over-the-counter or "holistic" remedies, are based on or contain essential oils. Examples include products containing camphor or eucalyptus that help relieve congestive coughs, and the essential oils used in the practice of aromatherapy.
So botanical seed oils (oils extracted from the seed of the plant) such as: Avocado, Sweet Almond, Borage, Hemp, Grape Seed, Olive, Meadowfoam, Macadamia, Jojoba, High Oleic Sunflower, High Oleic Safflower, Castor, Mango, Cocoa, Coconut, Canola, Rice Bran, and many, many others are all triglyceride oils, NOT essential oils.
Emu is an animal derived oil and so was left off the list, but of course, it is not an essential oil either.
Hope this information helps. |
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:20 am |
NOTCH wrote: |
So, I left and joined several other cosmetic forums boards in which I am still a member. I also had help from a lady in Florida who is just enthralled with my products in setting up a Never Over The Hill chat room forum of our own. It is a Delphi forum and if I could post a "link" I would, but that could possibly get me barred from this board again so I'd better not (PM if you want to know).
After many months, I decided to come back to this board with a new member name "NOTCH" and participate in a most "general" way. I like this board. Of all of them, you guys share the most information and seem to be the most knowlegable on cosmetics. There is no better place to share what I know in my opinion. But, I'm following the rules here. I haven't mentioned any of my product names, and until this thread, haven't even mentioned my company name. (If you want more details, PM's are allowed).
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John, didn't you used to post on MUA too?
You may not be directly posting your product names, but you are definitely promoting them in a very aggressive manner...almost every thing you say is in reference to a current product you have, or one you are coming out with (with names mentioned), all followed by "PM me for more info," of course.
I think you have some great info, but your delivery manner is making me very skeptical of everything you say.
Could you possibly just stick to the FACTS and leave your current and future products out of your posts? And maybe set up a separate thread just for your products on threads where you can talk about them to your heart's content? |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:00 pm |
I was reading some other sites online today, and various ones mentioned that we should not use any moistuzing agents every day, or our own lipid production could drop. I actually saw that happen when I first started using emu oil. So my new plan of attack is to only use them when I REALLY need them...like maybe once or twice a week, max. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:02 pm |
Emu oil did that? I was going to try that for my son's eczema. I'm at my wits end with his eczema. If this is true then lotion and certain oils would supposedly make his already very dry skin even dryer? I really can't take that chance to stop moisturizing him. I'm ready to try Crisco on the poor kid! |
_________________ 36 year old mother of 2, oily skin, prone to break outs, wrinkles around the eyes, forehead wrinkles and laugh lines |
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:54 pm |
sahmisme wrote: |
Emu oil did that? I was going to try that for my son's eczema. I'm at my wits end with his eczema. If this is true then lotion and certain oils would supposedly make his already very dry skin even dryer? I really can't take that chance to stop moisturizing him. I'm ready to try Crisco on the poor kid! |
I would definitely go for the emu oil over the Crisco! And his case is very different, so I would not hesitate in the least to lube him up.
BTW, before you order a big jug of any oil, I would conact Markey at Gardenofwisdom.com and get her guidance on what oils are best for eczema....you may have to try several to find the right one for him, and I know she can probably recommend the top 3 that are most likely to work. She also has some smaller sizes, so you don't have to make a big investment. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:12 pm |
Thank you for the tip. I was just joking about the Crisco but I only ordered 2 oz of emu oil so I can give it a try first. I use that very heavy Eucerin on him most of the time but I'm DONE with topical steroids. What a waste of time. |
_________________ 36 year old mother of 2, oily skin, prone to break outs, wrinkles around the eyes, forehead wrinkles and laugh lines |
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:59 pm |
I was remembering what Dr. Obagi had said. It's not that the cream/oil is dehydrating, it's that the skin becomes complacent in producing its own oil.
I can also imagine that the skin becomes oil-loaded and un-exfoliated with continuous use of moisturizers. Thus skin acts dry on the surface from dead skin cells sticking together and not shedding as they should.
But I'm no scientist...who knows! |
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:20 pm |
vanbergc wrote: |
I was remembering what Dr. Obagi had said. It's not that the cream/oil is dehydrating, it's that the skin becomes complacent in producing its own oil.
I can also imagine that the skin becomes oil-loaded and un-exfoliated with continuous use of moisturizers. Thus skin acts dry on the surface from dead skin cells sticking together and not shedding as they should.
But I'm no scientist...who knows! |
That sounds about right to me!! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:09 pm |
Kassy_A wrote: |
Jeeeez John, why didn't you continue posting with your "John C Hill" alias.
It seems you have some newer members thinking you're only interested in shilling your lovely products...
Bring back 'John C Hill'.... The guy with thousands of very informative posts..
And you should definitely take bethany's advice and put your info in the siggy.... You have nice products, and should shout it loud and clear. |
ooh i remeber John C Hill lol yes you should have kept to the same user name to avoid confusion John!
now back to camellia oil i read somewhere its the best oil for skin....because its very close to skin system works (sorry i forgot the term here) and that it will absorb very well.....so any comments on camellia oil? |
_________________ age 33 .. skin dry with odd breakout now and then. skin color best i can describe is golden brown..tans easily |
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Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:29 am |
sahmisme wrote: |
Doesn't anyone think that the information you're getting here is going to be biased towards the ingredients he uses in his products? |
We should take everything we read here or in any forum with a grain of salt, try what seems right for us, and come to our own conclusions. I'm always glad to read the opinions of someone who is in the skin care product business. If they steer me toward their products, (I still don't know what John's products are) maybe I'll find something that works great for me that I had't tried before. |
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Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:06 am |
cat, it would be best if you just send me a PM is you want to learn more about my products. I'd be glad to fill you in privately.
Thanks for the kind words Kassy_A and simran, it is much appreciated. I changed my name to NOTCH for a reason, and let's just leave it at that. |
_________________ President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:31 am |
Not only have I heard this about lotion, but I've also heard this about chap stick. It's as is your body becomes dependent on these things because your skin/lips aren't prompted to produce the same amounts of it's own natural oil. Don't really know if it's true but I'm not running to the rubbish can with my moisturizers in hand to say goodbye to them anytime soon!!!
Who knows with this stuff really, one min this is a breakthrough and the next they advise against it. Doesn't matter what it is really. Skin care, food, vitamins and the list could go on. I believe it's all about moderation really. Just don't overdue any one thing and your won't throw yourself off balance. Welp there's my little rant about such matters for today!
Best Regards. |
_________________ Making it my personal goal to improve my health and wellness! |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:47 pm |
Reviving this thread... Thanks for the link Bethany...
I think this makes perfect since.
I know I went a period loving certain lip products and if I didn't have them... I thought my lips would peel off... I wasn't actually treating any condition... I just liked certain lip glosses and such. Now that I rarely wear anything on my lips... they are generally soft. (still love the gloss though!)
Additionally, it seems that it's already been proven that over stripping oily skin to try to "dry it out"... 'causes the exact opposite effect and oil production increases to compensate... So why not the opposite.
I was looking at the study on pubmed... has anyone figured out what a "complex cream compound" is?
And then reading the Obagi info... He references "habitual daily use"... and that it might slow down the rate of exfoliation... which WOULD lead to aging... that's what we do naturally as times goes on. We naturally, exfoliate, meaning turning over our own cells, at a slower rate... so, why would we want to slow it down more... (unless of course we want to pay someone to speed it back up... ) Wow...suddenly, it makes more since why so many companies group their products... You NEED the whole batch to create undesired effects and correct them... LOL!
Although, I LOVE to try products, it's almost a hobby, I can actually visualize fewer and fewer "things" in my cabinet...
Has anyone seen articles addressing temporary dryness due to say, extreme weather conditions (a day on the slopes) or what we put our faces through (peels etc...)
All very interesting... Would love more info if anyone has it... |
_________________ Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:48 pm |
i use emu oil and my skin is just as greasy (or even more)as without it |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:56 pm |
ClaudiaFE wrote: |
Has anyone seen articles addressing temporary dryness due to say, extreme weather conditions (a day on the slopes) or what we put our faces through (peels etc...)
All very interesting... Would love more info if anyone has it... |
Claudia, I have a GREAT article on peels and the inflammation impact if you want to read that...pm me with your email address because it is a pdf that is not available in full online. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:36 am |
Regarding oils turning rancid: This was discussed on another thread about Olive Oil and I will repeat what I said there.
I have never had any experience of oils going rancid and I do live in a tropical climate. I buy Olive Oil in 4 litre tins and have never had a problem. I also use Emu Oil (which I don't keep in the fridge because it solidifies) and have never experienced it turning rancid either.
I really don't think that the fact than an oil MIGHT turn rancid is a reason to avoid using it. If for some reason this does happen, well just chuck it and buy a new batch - both Olive and Emu Oils are inexpensive after all.
As to whether or not to use a moisturiser - I have to admit that I'm not really that interested in moisturising, I'm trying to generate collagen and elastin so I'm just bombarding my skin with as many anti-oxidants as possible. Emu Oil is applied last as it's supposed to push all the other stuff into the skin as well as promote the growth of collagen. (Hopefully!) |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:50 am |
This is so amazing. I've heard that depending on lip balms too much will weaken your lips' natural capability to protect themselves. maybe it's similar about skin moisturizers. |
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Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:43 am |
Ha ha - how great to know that, when i've been lazy and not stuck religiously to any one cleansing and/or moisturising routine, i've actually been doing my skin good! And here's me just thinking i was lazy!!
Seriously though, my motto in life when deciding whether to listen to advice is "does it make sense?". If something doesn't sound like common sense, then i don't follow it. If it does, then i will.
So, for me, the theory that using moisturisers/cleansers or any type of routine day-in day-out might make your skin lazy does make sense to me. So, i'm buying into it. I think the trick is to keep it simple and keep variety in your beauty routine, as it keeps your skin on its toes (so to speak). I alternate between daily microfoliant, dr h cleanser, sometimes just a wipe and steam with a warm, damp flannel. at night, i moisturise maybe 2-3 times a week, i'll use a dedicated acne treatment once a week - the other times i go to bed with a clean but bare face to let my skin breathe completely and just do what it is actually supposed to do whilst i'm asleep without any hindrance.
Plus, doesn't it give us all just the most perfect excuse to keep buying new products!!!! |
_________________ Don't worry what people think - they don't do it very often. 36 year old light brunette with oily/congested skin - but no wrinkles yet though! Tan quite easily and like natural organic stuff on my skin - even better if it's homemade - and i'm a firm believer that beauty comes from within. |
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