Study suggests: - Skin cream can make skin drier
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

free skin care · Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:59 am

bethany, keeping your emu oil refrigerated is good. Expecting it to last 18 months would be a miracle.

Now, here is information I bet few people know here and it is concerned with "antioxidants" like Vitamin E. If, an oil is inherently unstable, no amount of antioxidant added can keep it from eventually going rancid. As a matter of fact, adding antioxidants to unstable oils can often lead to being a "pro-oxidant" and accelerating the decay effect.

At a previous job with a raw material supplier, we had an analytical piece of equipment called the "OSI". It measured the Oxidative Stability Index of virtually any cosmetic oil we cared to test, and we used to test them ALL. It essentially bubbles pure oxygen into the heated oil, and it can determine exactly how fast the oil breaks down, and eventually lead us to a "shelf life" value. There is no way emu oil is going to last 18 months, I'm sorry to say.

We used to add every type of antioxidant we could find to unstable oils, in varying concentrations to see the effect. Virtually no anti-oxidant could stop the decay and rancid effect of an unstable oil.

So, keep in mind, even if you see antioxidants added into an unstable oil in an attempt to lure the consumer into believing it will be stable, this is just incorrect. As a matter of fact, doing so may even speed up the process.

Go ahead and use your Emu oil, but keep the lid on it at all times, keep it refrigerated, and use it quickly. Smell it from time to time. When you start getting that sharp, almost "rotten butter" type smell, then it is breaking down and is no longer the Emu oil you first purchased.

John

free skin care · Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:42 am

Let's look at the biology of the skin, and the science of raw materials in skin care products. The skin is the largest organ in the body, and has a similar physiology no matter what part of the body you are referring too. It may be true that the face has more sebaceous glands than the feet, but both areas have them.

The skin on your body is made up of several layers including Stratum Corneum (dead skin cell layer on top), Epidermis (living, active layer under the top surface), the Dermis (including the sebaceous glands and hair follicle region) and the Hypodermis (sweat glands, and fatty tissue).

The most important part here, for keeping skin moist and supple (as nature designed it) is the sebaceous glands. These glands produce sebum which is your skin's own moisturizer. Sebum has been analyzed and is comprised of:

Free Fatty Acids: 30%, which can be broken down into approximately the following fatty acid components...
2.1% Myristic Acid
20.2% Palmitic Acid
11.2% Stearic Acid
3.8% Palmitoleic Acid
30.8% Oleic Acid
15.1% Linoleic Acid
0.3% Linolenic Acid

Wax Esters: 19.0%

Cholesterol Esters: 27.7%

Squalene: 15.6%

Cholesterol: 1.2%

Ceramides: very small amount

Knowing this information is the KEY to finding the right product to moisturize the skin. You need to look for products that use emollients with the correct fatty acid profile to match that of the skin. The ONLY botanical emollient oil that has the exact same fatty acid profile, in very similar loading levels is, Macadamia Oil. And, Macadamia Oil is an inherently stable oil, having 5% or less polyunsaturated fatty acids. The polyunsatureated fatty acids (Linoleic and Linolenic) are the ones that cause unstable emollients to break down into short chain bi products that go rancid, and smell bad with an associated very short shelf life. Most triglyceride emollient oils in the cosmetic industry have 10% or more polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Next, the product you choose should contain some type of wax ester. There is only ONE botanical source of wax ester similar to that of the skin, and that is Jojoba Oil, and Jojoba Esters. Whale oil is also a liquid wax ester, but it is not ethical to use whale oil in cosmetic products. In addition, Jojoba Esters are the very best occlusive emollients in cosmetic chemistry, even better than the former industry standard, petrolatum. That means not only is Jojoba Esters a very skin friendly emollient, it also keeps mosture trapped at the skin surface better than any other liquid emollient oil on the market.

Next, look for a product that contains squalene. This is somewhat hard to do since squalene is being produced less and less by its traditional source, the olive oil producers. It's actually a bi-product of olive oil, but since olive oil sells far better than squalene, the producers have cut back on making it. But, it can be found in some cosmetic products.

The lesser components of cholesterols can are usually found easier in your diet rather than cosmetic products. Cholesterol in a raw material form is a white powder that is somewhat hard to assimilate into a cosmetic product, so it is rarely done.

Putting all of this together, the very BEST way to moisturize the skin is to find a product that is skin friendly. If you can find the above items in a product, then it will work with the skin's own natural sebum. Other products with incorrect emollients and emulsifiers actually disrupt the skin's own sebum production, putting incorrect fatty acid ratios and no wax esters into the skin causes bioligical havoc. Then, once the product is gone, the skin's own sebum has been displaced, and less is being produced.... This causes the product user to put on more of the wrong type of product.... Which causes even more disruption to the natural sebum.... Making the skin even drier.... Which causes the user to use more.... and so on in a vicious drying downward spiral, as pointed out in the study by Upsalla University in Sweden last fall.

This is the process by which most, if not most of the so called moisturizing creams and lotions actually make your skin more dry over time.

The bottom line is this, look for products that replicate your skin's own natural sebum. It should contain one or more of the following: Macadamia Oil, Jojoba Oil, Jojoba Esters, Squalene, mild emulsifiers preferably made from Jojoba or Olive. And, since this is a skin friendly combination, a product like this will always penetrate instantly, and move into the skin deeply since "like dissolves like" (an old chemists' term). In addition, it will not be greasy nor will it sit on top of the skin and do nothing...in the "dead skin cell" area, like most so called "moisturizing creams and lotions" do.

Hope this helps, and if you need further technical answers, don't hesitate to ask.

John

free skin care · Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:33 pm

fat_swan wrote:

And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane?

While we all wait for John's expertise, I'll just tell you the little I know;

Squalene; This is he real deal, and extracted from a sharks liver.. Many people, myself included, shudder at the thought..

Squalane; Is the 'maybe good enough' version extracted from olives...

free skin care · Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:44 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

NOTCH wrote:

Hope this helps, and if you need further technical answers, don't hesitate to ask.

John

Wonderful info John, thanks for sharing!

In looking at the list of "fatty acids" you shared, I couldn't help being reminded of Avocado Oil, and just wanted to ask why you might have overlooked it... It's comprised of;

Typically avocado oil contains the following fatty acid:

palmitic
palmitoleic
stearic
oleic
linoleic
linolenic.

And is also a rich and nourishing oil that deeply penetrates into deep skin tissue. It is rich in vitamins A, B1, B2 and D, lecithin, potassium as well as vitamin E.

http://www.dermaxime.com/avocado.htm (Much more available with a quick google)

Anyhoo, I would love to hear your thoughts on Avocado Oil, and what you would suggest adding to it, to make it even better.. Would Jojoba fit the bill?

Thanks John!

Yes, Jojoba Oil would be an excellent addition to avocado oil, if you like using that oil, as the people who use it on your linked website obviously do.

However, I think they should add "percentage" values next to their fatty acid profile of avocado in order to more clearly explain the properties of the oil.

According to my technical source at the "Seed Oil Research Group" of the United States Department of Agriculture, in Peoria, Illinois, avocado oil has the following fatty acid composition:

Palmitic: trace
Palmitoleic: trace
Stearic: 20%
Oleic: 70%
Linoleic: 10%
Linolenic: trace

It is OK for the website to claim that palmitic, palmitoleic, and linolenic exists in avocado oil, since gas chromatograph research does show "trace" amounts. But, trace amounts are not very beneficial in the overall scheme of things. Macadamia would still be my first choice over Avocado for a skin friendly, deeply penetrating emollient oil, especially since the 10% polyunsaturate fats makes avocado an inherently unstable oil.

John

free skin care · Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:54 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

fat_swan wrote:

And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane?

While we all wait for John's expertise, I'll just tell you the little I know;

Squalene; This is he real deal, and extracted from a sharks liver.. Many people, myself included, shudder at the thought..

Squalane; Is the 'maybe good enough' version extracted from olives...

INCORRECT KASSY in one important aspect...

Yes, squalene can be obtained from shark liver. But, nobody in the cosmetic industry, especially me, is willing to use any sort of animal product to ethically make cosmetics.

Squalene...IS FOUND AND DERIVED FROM Olive Oil. There is no doubt about it. If you care to give me an e-mail address, I'll send you technical information from the B & T company from Italy who produces it from Olive Oil sources.

Squalane, is the "fully hydrogenated" version of squalene. Since it has no double bonds in the chain, and is fully hydrogenated, the properties are different from squalene. Only squalene can be used to replicate the function and activity of skin squalene. And, I only use Olive Oil derived squalene. Please, do more research before making certain comments. The internet is already ripe with misinformation and we certainly don't need any more.

If anyone else wants the technical information on olive oil derived squalene from the B & T company, don't hesitate to ask. I'll send it right over.

John

free skin care · Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:08 pm

fat_swan wrote:

NOTCH wrote:

Hi fat_swan! If...all the ingredients you would like to blend in are "oil soluble" then you could theoretically make your own version. If the ingredients are water soluble, then the components won't mix in. But, you can use the percentages I have listed in the above post to make a somewhat similar version, using Macadamia Oil for the fatty acids, Jojoba Esters for the wax esters, and Squalene (if you can find it) for the Squalene.

John

Thanks John! From what I understand Macadamia Oil, Jojoba Ester and Squalene are all oils, so wouldn't they all be oil soluble and be able to mix together?? And is Squalene pretty much same as Squalane? And does Jojoba Oil contain Jojoba Esters? Thanks again!

Yes, all of them would be found in the "oil phase" of a cosmetic product. I was referring to the additives you may consider mixing with them. Actives can sometimes be oil soluble and sometimes water soluble. So it would be wise to check before you mix them with these known oils.

Ah!! Jojoba Oil....actually, it's not an "oil" at all! It is what is known as a liquid wax esters. Therefore, people who use this emollient, and no other "oils" could actually and truly make an "oil free" claim on their product. So, "Jojoba oil" is really "jojoba esters"....that's the correct cosmetic INCI name, and it is the correct scientific name as well.

The reason it is such a good occlusive material, trapping moisture at the skin surface is because of where it grows. Jojoba plants can be found in the deserts of the world, and most abundantly right here in the Phoenix area in the Sonoran Desert! It barely rains 7 inches a year here in the desert. So the jojoba plant has managed over tens of thousands of years to find a way to stop the little water it can find from evaporating out from itself....and that is the jojoba oil it produces. Other large crops can be found in the high deserts of South America, and the in the deserts around Israel.

Isn't nature fantastic??!!

Finally, squalene and squalane are two completely different compounds with different functions and activity. One cannot be substituted for the other and expect similar results. They are different.

John

free skin care · Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:17 am

fat_swan wrote:

The more I think about this, the more it doesn't seem to make sense. Aren't oils moisturizers as well? If according to Dr Obagi's theory, wouldn't using oils such as Macadamia, Jojoba, Squalene also make the skin lazy in producing it's own oils? So does this mean we should lay off everything that's emollient?? Eh?

And out of curiosity, I checked out the oil section at my local health food store. The only Macadamia Oil and Jojoba Oil they carry are "cold pressed". Will this make a difference? TIA!

Hi fatswan, I don't have any comment on the Obaji or Hauschka philosophy,other than my own personal take that an absolutist stance on anything doesn't take into account the unique diversity of each and every human being. Smile

I don't plan to do away with applying oils or adhere to such "dogma" of any kind. Smile

I do use jojoba and macademia nut oils a great deal; along with sunflower and avocado oil, but thanks to the scientific, rather than anecdotal evidence presented in this thread, I may start mixing avocado oil with macademia nut oil to increase absorption by the skin. Cold pressed, rather than refined will contain more properties that are beneficial to you because only mechanical means are used to extract the oil from the fruit (or nut). The more heat that's used to extract the oil,the greater the likelihood that beneficial properties will be destroyed. Similar to overcooking your veggies... Smile

Look for cold pressed, extra virgin whenever possible. A great source of organic cold pressed carrier oils: http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/
I don't work for Mountain Rose herbs, but I love this company/their products, price and philosophy and shamelessly promote it whenever I get the chance... Smile

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.