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Ageless if you Dare - Loulou's Facial Exercises

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cm5597
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Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:51 pm      Reply with quote
LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Cm how long have you done facial exercises for? I know you do a lot and have a lot of knowledge with all the programs out there, but I'm kind of thinking that someone in their late 20's/early 30's wouldn't have much benefit from them, as they won't be dealing with sag etc.

Do you think that all the facial programs will help the poster build cheekbones particularly if they haven't got them already? I think thts what they were asking about and I'm curious to know what you think also?

Lucy


Hi Lucy,

I did Facercise on and off (mostly off) from age 20 until 27. I would do stints of several weeks at a time, and then not do it for a while. I did have two longer stretches of several months. I've now been doing mostly FlexEffect for 2.2 years (I had a 6 month break in there that I'm not including towards that total), but I like to mix in a few exercises from other programs on occasion Smile

Yes, I think most people in their 20's/early 30's have little sag, so would not see much of a difference. For those people, it would be mostly for prevention. However, if you already have some sag or some issues with losing fullness in your face (like me) or simply want to enhance what you already have (e.g., improve facial symmetry, make the cheeks stand out more)...then you will likely see more of benefit even when younger. Just my best guess Smile I would still do it for prevention, even if I didn't have some issues that I want to address; however, I wouldn't work as hard at it as I am, if that makes sense.

For someone who simply wants to enhance the fullness in their cheeks, I *think* that somewhere between tiny to significant changes are possible, depending on numerous factors...too numerous to list, including muscle-building potential, bone structure, genetics, diet, muscle control, finger strength, etc. This is my conclusion after reading hundreds of posts on three different forums, just based on the variability and range of experiences. I have also been able to go from gaunt cheeks to thin cheeks that are mostly filled in (just a little more left to go!). But it's been a slow process, slower than I originally expected.

I think that to reduce sag in the cheeks, most of the programs out there will help you with that to varying degrees.

But to restore fullness to the face, I think you need more than just toning exercises. In exercise physiology, we know that you have to lift a heavy weight to build appreciable amounts of muscle. Toning or using light weights doesn't build very much muscle. Hence the different strategies adopted by bodybuilders versus someone who wants a yoga-like physique; bodybuilders lift heavy weights or use high resistance, whereas people who want yoga-like physiques lift light weights, do isometrics, or use their bodyweight when exercising.

Hence, I think that to build significant amounts of muscle and hence to create fullness in the cheeks, you need a program where you apply resistance to the cheeks. My understanding is the programs that include resistance training are FlexEffect and Ageless. Facercise (at least not the older program), ShapeYourFace, and many others do not. I *think* that "Facial Magic" and "Facelifting by Exercise" include resistance, but I'm not 100% certain. Similarly, I don't know about Happy Face Yoga and Carolyn's Facial Fitness. Does this help? Let me know if it doesn't.

All the best Smile

P.S. Do you live in London? London is my favorite city by far Smile

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LondonLucyGeorge
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Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:44 am      Reply with quote
Hi CM

Yes Iím a Londoner born and bred.

That mirrors my thinking. Iím still not so sure that all that stretching, twisting and pulling is good for the skin, but I know its done wonders for some, but I find the fact that some people get strange results quite frightening so Iím still going to skip that part for sure.

I know Deb and some of the others began their facial exercises when younger and so I think thatís probably got a great deal of why they have such good results. I mean its just like exercising the body Ė you start out young when the tissue is healthy and you can kind of make it remain healthy, but you start out older when the tissue is half dead and you wonít get anywhere near the results. That said I mean with my bodybuilding background I struggle with the idea of working out daily. It never happens with the body so why would the face be any different.

With your cheeks, itís a shame that none of the programs you tried delivered results, but Iím wondering if thatís the fault of the programs you are doing in that they havenít engaged the muscles properly or is it something else. Whilst I agree those factors you mention are problematic, in my mind that shouldnít stop someone building muscle Ė the same is true for the body. Even if diet is out, a person can and will build some muscle.

I thought I read a post of yours recently where you were discussing why Facercise wasnít a resistance program (because the poster mentioned increasing the resistance b pressing into the floor) Ė and I agree with you that part didnít make sense, but as you say you have to press into the tissue and from what I can see with the cheeks exercise of Facercise, you only press 1 fingers into the cheeks so thatís going to work the muscles bigtime are they? Maybe Iím missing something here.

Sorry didnít mean to highjack this thread but am thinking these questions might be helpful to others if they are going to do Ageless. I do have Ageless and am still very cross that Lou just vanished and then came back to promote her product without any explanation whatsoever. Some excuse would have been nice Ė as there were fans of hers who were very defensive over her, so itís a discredit to them really. Plus this new product she spoke of last year still isnít available as yet and has no definitive date or idea of a date. Love to know why facial exercises teachers do that. Still the worst by far was FlexEffect who kept people waiting a year. I did want to order it in the beginning Ė but after about 10 months I gave up. Facercise did something similar Ė she spoke about her book end of last year and there is still no sign of it Ė but apparently it will be available end of April and of course Ageless Ė the facial exercise teachers need to learn how to get a grip on time and meeting deadlines Ė as none seem to be able to do it!

Lucy
cm5597
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:36 am      Reply with quote
LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Hi CM

Yes Iím a Londoner born and bred.

That mirrors my thinking. Iím still not so sure that all that stretching, twisting and pulling is good for the skin, but I know its done wonders for some, but I find the fact that some people get strange results quite frightening so Iím still going to skip that part for sure.


I suspect the variability of people's results also strongly depends on the condition of the skin to start with. That is, people with good skin elasticity and circulation will respond more quickly and favorably. That said, if you have poor skin elasticity and circulation, I'd be willing to wager that some level of massage (but initially more gentle until the skin starts to improve) is good. One of the interesting things is that researchers have recently found surprisingly poor levels of oxygen saturation (a marker of circulation) in adipose tissue (fat tissue in overweight people), similarly to that found in very damaged tissue. I suspect that we will hear more about this in the next decade, but in the mean time, this to me suggests the need to keep our circulation healthy and to improve circulation pathways in the body...including through exercise and massage.


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
I know Deb and some of the others began their facial exercises when younger and so I think thatís probably got a great deal of why they have such good results. I mean its just like exercising the body Ė you start out young when the tissue is healthy and you can kind of make it remain healthy, but you start out older when the tissue is half dead and you wonít get anywhere near the results. That said I mean with my bodybuilding background I struggle with the idea of working out daily. It never happens with the body so why would the face be any different.


Yeah, it's hard to know what exactly seems to determine the degree of results a person has. But many people who are not young still get great results, so I think there are a lot of factors at play.


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
With your cheeks, itís a shame that none of the programs you tried delivered results, but Iím wondering if thatís the fault of the programs you are doing in that they havenít engaged the muscles properly or is it something else.


I did get some results, in that I could see the boost in circulation in my cheeks after the workout. Also, my cheeks did look slightly better. It was just the main result I was after--an increase in the fullness in my cheeks--only came with FlexEffect and Ageless. The other four programs I tried didn't help my cheeks very much, but they were helpful in other ways. Smile

In retrospect, looking back on them, I can see that not only were their exercises toning exercises, but they didn't even have exercises to target all the muscles of the cheeks.


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Whilst I agree those factors you mention are problematic, in my mind that shouldnít stop someone building muscle Ė the same is true for the body. Even if diet is out, a person can and will build some muscle.


Yes, I totally agree with this. I think the results will be so much better with a good diet, but there are very very few people who can't build any muscle, unless they are on a starvation diet.


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
I thought I read a post of yours recently where you were discussing why Facercise wasnít a resistance program (because the poster mentioned increasing the resistance b pressing into the floor) Ė and I agree with you that part didnít make sense, but as you say you have to press into the tissue and from what I can see with the cheeks exercise of Facercise, you only press 1 fingers into the cheeks so thatís going to work the muscles bigtime are they? Maybe Iím missing something here.


Oh, in my book on Facercise (the original book, not the Ultimate version), there are 4 cheek exercises. In 2 of them, you don't even touch the cheeks, so there is no applied resistance. In the other 2 of them ("The Cheek Developer" and "The Face Energizer"), Carole says "place your index fingers lightly on top of each cheek" and it seems pretty clear to me that the purpose of doing so is not to apply any resistance but to intensify the mind-muscle connection. Also, in the Facercise DVD I have, she does not appear to press against the muscle or apply resistance in those two cheek exercises. But Carole does have a handful of exercises where you apply some resistance, just none of these exercises are for the cheeks. Of course, you could convert her cheek exercises into resistance exercises, but I only followed her program as it was written down at the time; I'm more adventurous these days Wink


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Sorry didnít mean to highjack this thread but am thinking these questions might be helpful to others if they are going to do Ageless. I do have Ageless and am still very cross that Lou just vanished and then came back to promote her product without any explanation whatsoever. Some excuse would have been nice Ė as there were fans of hers who were very defensive over her, so itís a discredit to them really. Plus this new product she spoke of last year still isnít available as yet and has no definitive date or idea of a date. Love to know why facial exercises teachers do that. Still the worst by far was FlexEffect who kept people waiting a year. I did want to order it in the beginning Ė but after about 10 months I gave up. Facercise did something similar Ė she spoke about her book end of last year and there is still no sign of it Ė but apparently it will be available end of April and of course Ageless Ė the facial exercise teachers need to learn how to get a grip on time and meeting deadlines Ė as none seem to be able to do it!

Lucy


Yes, sometimes there are frustrations. It still isn't clear what's going on with "Ageless", because there are great exercises in the program. But the unfortunate treatment of people who didn't receive the book/DVD after paying for it and those people being effectively ignored for months was disrespectful in my book. I'm hoping she can turn things around.

All the best Smile

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Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:04 am      Reply with quote
Sure and that makes sense re condition of their skin, but surely there is a basic level where someone even with bad circulation will benefit from exercises.

I know what you mean when you say about older people getting results but when I look at those with so called results who are older, they havenít been able to really drastically change things to my eyes. Yes there are some pros, but Iím wondering if they had started much younger would they have been able to achieve better results. Logically I would think yes they would. Just like bodybuilding. Whilst there are old timers who do fantastically well, they have no where near the same symmetry, strength etc as those who have been doing it since their younger years.

Its funny though that the other programs that didnít fill your cheeks in, were more beneficial than FlexEffect and Ageless. I do have the old Ageless book, and have been desperately trying to get in contact with Loulou with no luck whatsoever. All my emails to her go unanswered and the service there is just pretty poor. Iíve decided Iím not buying the new program as the service is just plain crap. No one officially on the site can help you out, sure there are some great people there with suggestions but I donít see why she doesnít visit or answer emails or train someone to do it. Just looks like sheís out to make a fast cash in to me.

Iíve done bodybuilding and competed in competitions and eventually won, so know a lot about body building. Sure the first few comps I entered I came 2nd and 3rd, but got my act together and aced it and Iíve won my own gym borough competition 3 times now over the past years, but my face is starting to change and so I wanted to put a stop to that. Ageless seemed to be most popular on here at the time, but I dislike it a lot. Thereís no proper support and Loulou doesnít have any personal training experience or background to doing exercises of any sort. Actually all of the facial exerciser teachers Iíve looked at are the same. None are properly or medically trained in any way.

The exercise for Face Energiser to me doesnít look like it will engage any muscle whatsoever apart from perhaps stretching a few. The Cheek Raiser I think its called is the only one where I can see you using a cheek muscle, but even thatís limited. Even this mind/muscle thing makes me laugh. I mean if they really had done a proper exercise in which they engaged the mind, you have to have experience of lifting heavy to do it properly anyhow and Iím not so sure you can build muscles soley on imagery alone and Iíve not seen any real proof on her website. The photos just look plain old fake to me.

Your more fairer than I am, but I think Lou really needs to apologise to people. There was a huge following on here one time because of her and I think sheís really put those people in a bad light by her behaviour.
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:11 am      Reply with quote
I used to do facial exercises every other day for at least a year.
The positives for me were a taut face and a healthier look in general.
However, i found that small lines appeared when overdoing the exercises and i lost some fat from my face.
Im 32 and naturally quite thin.
I had a rethink and decided that at this age it was more about prevention......so i had a complete break for a few months and now i do exercises twice a week at the most. Every once in a while i will have a weeks rest.
I think this is a more sensible approach, at least in my case.
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Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:57 am      Reply with quote
LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Sure and that makes sense re condition of their skin, but surely there is a basic level where someone even with bad circulation will benefit from exercises.


Oh, yes, I definitely agree with you here.


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
I know what you mean when you say about older people getting results but when I look at those with so called results who are older, they havenít been able to really drastically change things to my eyes. Yes there are some pros, but Iím wondering if they had started much younger would they have been able to achieve better results. Logically I would think yes they would. Just like bodybuilding. Whilst there are old timers who do fantastically well, they have no where near the same symmetry, strength etc as those who have been doing it since their younger years.


I totally agree with you here, too. Rather to be more specific, if you come to exercise for the first time when you are older, if all else is equal, you won't be able to achieve as much as someone who has been exercising for years/decades. As you say, the same thing makes sense with bodybuilding/exercise. However, the "obviousness" of the changes are usually more evident in someone who is coming from a weaker background, just like with weightlifting...meaning their improvements naturally have the potential be more apparent relative to where they started. I hope the distinction I'm trying to make is clear Smile

LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Its funny though that the other programs that didnít fill your cheeks in, were more beneficial than FlexEffect and Ageless.


Oh, sorry, I wasn't saying the other programs that I tried were more beneficial than FlexEffect or Ageless. Rather, that when I was trying out other program, they had benefits, too. Meaning nothing that I tried was without benefits; some just had more benefits (e.g., FlexEffect) than others (e.g., Facercise).


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
I do have the old Ageless book, and have been desperately trying to get in contact with Loulou with no luck whatsoever. All my emails to her go unanswered and the service there is just pretty poor. Iíve decided Iím not buying the new program as the service is just plain crap. No one officially on the site can help you out, sure there are some great people there with suggestions but I donít see why she doesnít visit or answer emails or train someone to do it. Just looks like sheís out to make a fast cash in to me.


I thought she had an assistant who was helping out...hmmmm...maybe the assistant isn't on top of everything just yet...?


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Iíve done bodybuilding and competed in competitions and eventually won, so know a lot about body building. Sure the first few comps I entered I came 2nd and 3rd, but got my act together and aced it and Iíve won my own gym borough competition 3 times now over the past years, but my face is starting to change and so I wanted to put a stop to that.


That's so awesome!! You rock Smile


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Ageless seemed to be most popular on here at the time, but I dislike it a lot. Thereís no proper support and Loulou doesnít have any personal training experience or background to doing exercises of any sort. Actually all of the facial exerciser teachers Iíve looked at are the same. None are properly or medically trained in any way.

The exercise for Face Energiser to me doesnít look like it will engage any muscle whatsoever apart from perhaps stretching a few. The Cheek Raiser I think its called is the only one where I can see you using a cheek muscle, but even thatís limited. Even this mind/muscle thing makes me laugh. I mean if they really had done a proper exercise in which they engaged the mind, you have to have experience of lifting heavy to do it properly anyhow and Iím not so sure you can build muscles soley on imagery alone and Iíve not seen any real proof on her website. The photos just look plain old fake to me.


Yeah, I agree. Once you understand the mechanics of weightlifting to build muscle, I don't see how you could restore significant amounts of fullness to the cheeks without applying strong resistance to the cheeks when you exercise then. But I would think that both toning and resistance exercise would help for sag, increasing circulation, reducing wrinkles, etc.


LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
Your more fairer than I am, but I think Lou really needs to apologise to people. There was a huge following on here one time because of her and I think sheís really put those people in a bad light by her behaviour.


All the best Smile

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Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:07 pm      Reply with quote
LondonLucyGeorge wrote:

I know what you mean when you say about older people getting results but when I look at those with so called results who are older, they havenít been able to really drastically change things to my eyes. Yes there are some pros, but Iím wondering if they had started much younger would they have been able to achieve better results. Logically I would think yes they would. Just like bodybuilding. Whilst there are old timers who do fantastically well, they have no where near the same symmetry, strength etc as those who have been doing it since their younger years


Hi, fellow Londoner here! I was interested in what you said (generally) and especially intrigued to know what you thought of this women at the top of the article (over fifties body-building competition)
in view of aging and muscle build. Would love your thoughts!

http://figureathlete.t-nation.com/free_online_article/training/five_training_principles_for_fitness_at_fiftyplus
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Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:22 pm      Reply with quote
Well really in bodybuilding you get judged on a variety of factors, but the general main ones that I've noticed are symmetry - i.e. are your muscles on each side looking the same, is one side bigger/smaller etc, your actual strength - in how much you can lift, and usually your overall performance. So in competitions you often start out with your measurements and weight being taken, then you do a set of exercises with weights, and then finally you kind of do a routine in which you flex and show your muscular definition.

The photo on that website is difficult to judge, as it has her at an angle, not standing head on, so you can't tell if she's very symmetrical - although I imagine she might be. But to me, the build she has is very feminine (which is also what I strive for) in that she hasn't overbuilt her shoulders, they are the perfect sizing to her frame, and her thighs look very strong and defined. She's got very low level of body fat (but as a result her boobs are well impacted by that). I'm lucky in that I'm a very full bossomed girl) but I know others aren't.

That article is very interesting though - but I'm not so sure I agree with it entirely but hey its motivating for sure!

semayden wrote:
Hi, fellow Londoner here! I was interested in what you said (generally) and especially intrigued to know what you thought of this women at the top of the article (over fifties body-building competition)
in view of aging and muscle build. Would love your thoughts!

http://figureathlete.t-nation.com/free_online_article/training/five_training_principles_for_fitness_at_fiftyplus
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Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:25 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks LondonLucyGeorge. That's interesting and helpful for me as I'm just starting back again after many years. What I really wanted to know though was what you made of the fact that she was over fifty years of age! Granted, she may have years of work behind her, but given what you said earlier about older people maybe finding it harder to build (can't remember if you mentioned maintainence) would you say that age-wise she's doing really well even to hold on to what she's got?! Very Happy
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Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:30 pm      Reply with quote
I think that she looks great for her age, but you know with bodybuilding it really depends on what your goals are, even for us women. I'm great with both symmetry and performance, but where I really lack at present is strength, but its improving gradually. My training partner is great with symmetry and strength but struggles with the perfomrance element. So there's always a lacking category for anyone.

I did notice when I first started training oldies (they'd kill for me saying that) do struggle with putting on muscle, and I've seen on another forum that the suggested reason for that might be a body performing under par, and I suppose I'm willing that could be a possibility, but I'm not sure its the same for everyone.
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Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:49 pm      Reply with quote
LondonLucyGeorge wrote:
I think that she looks great for her age, but you know with bodybuilding it really depends on what your goals are, even for us women. I'm great with both symmetry and performance, but where I really lack at present is strength, but its improving gradually. My training partner is great with symmetry and strength but struggles with the perfomrance element. So there's always a lacking category for anyone.

I did notice when I first started training oldies (they'd kill for me saying that) do struggle with putting on muscle, and I've seen on another forum that the suggested reason for that might be a body performing under par, and I suppose I'm willing that could be a possibility, but I'm not sure its the same for everyone.


Oooo - that's interesting, about you training older people. How old were they (yes, this is relevant to 'ageless' as I'm also applying these principles/know-how to the face!)
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Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:00 am      Reply with quote
Anyone know how I can get my hands on a copy of Loulou's Facial Exercises "Ageless if you Dare?" The link posted on the first page of this thread (http://www.lulu.com/content/4463137) doesn't work. Also, there's nothing to download at this site: http://www.agelessifwedare.com/

Help! I'd love to get started with these exercises!
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Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:33 am      Reply with quote
EZUltrasound

You can't get hold of it yet. Reason being there is a new one in the making (but no release date as yet). The older one isn't available any longer officially but on the Ageless forum there was talk of a special rate or deal at one point and I'm not sure if thats still available or not, but you should go and ask there as people will help you for sure!
EZUltrasound wrote:
Anyone know how I can get my hands on a copy of Loulou's Facial Exercises "Ageless if you Dare?" The link posted on the first page of this thread (http://www.lulu.com/content/4463137) doesn't work. Also, there's nothing to download at this site: http://www.agelessifwedare.com/

Help! I'd love to get started with these exercises!
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Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:12 am      Reply with quote
I recall Loulou saying that it would be available by Christmas time 2010. Then there was an update that it would be delayed. Not sure what the current status is and what the expected release date is. HTH Smile

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Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:46 pm      Reply with quote
Hello, I'm newly here and I can't find where I can see or buy a book of those exercises( Can someone please help with info?
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:31 am      Reply with quote
I purchased Ageless back in 2009 and have misplaced my print-out of Lou Lou's book. I have also just discovered that the original download was deleted off our old computer, so I can't re-print another copy (mental note, always print a back up!). Confused

Naturally I am very disappointed to see that I cannot buy another copy of her book. Based on the length of time that has passed since her book was pulled, I have to think that Lou Lou is in some sort of legal battle with someone (cough, cough) over her exercise book and this is why no one can purchase the original at all anymore. The complete disappearance of the 1st edition and the fact she is MIA from her own forum is really bizarre to me.

Am I the only one who thinks something must be going on that is preventing her from publishing or selling anything again?

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Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:51 am      Reply with quote
I do find it strange. I'm not sure whether its a legal battle, but I do know in her newsletter she sent out before Christmas, she was still working on a new book - and I'm guessing she's looking at techniques like skin and bone (much akin to FlexEffect LOL) and so thats maybe whats taking the time. Also remember her business partner Anne said something about it not being ready until she was back from China - so not sure if thats happened but do think its disgusting that nothings being said or addressed. Very bad service in my mind.
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:31 am      Reply with quote
Hey Theresa - The newsletter in December was obviously a PR attempt to keep up appearances and prepare people for an impending absence (or should I say disappearing act). If it was legit, Lou or her partner would have made a concerted effort to keep everyone abreast of what is going on and not simply vanished into thin air. I totally agree with you that the way in which this situation has been handled is disgusting.

I have to wonder if she has received a cease and desist order from a lawyer and that's why she and her partner are MIA and nothing is available for sale. I can understand if the new version of her book is taking extra time to finish, etc., but there is no reason to pull the 1st edition off the market unless she was forced to. From a business standpoint, this does not make any sense. The 1st edition & DVD were not positioned to need any extra online support from a trainer either, so why would you stop selling it?

I also find it very telling that you cannot search for Ageless on FE's boards, but you can search for any other competitor's name. Yup, there is some bad blood here, that's for sure!

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Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:21 am      Reply with quote
Hi Scotlass - I thought it was so, and it was a bit of an overkill as they did the "it will be ready by Christmas thing" and still some half year later its not here for sure.

I wonder if she has received a legal order as such. That would explain it. I do think that her videos that she sends out in the newsletters do not show her in the best light and I can't help but wonder if she has had a bit of work done. Not that I'm against plastic surgery (hell if I could afford it I'd have my whole body done) but I just wish they'd be upfront about it.

I thought someone said above (but could be imaging it) said you could search Ageless. I've not been on the forum for yonks so haven't tried but I do remember wondering why people kept on saying the other program, so it probably was a protection thing they did.


I do think its strange she never gives any mention of FE in her stuff, and they don't seem to mention her or her technique from what I've seen. I know I heard on the grapevine that both Loulou and Lemon didn't think highly of how FlexEffect was run, but in comparison to what they've done I think it does deserve a round of applause.
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:36 am      Reply with quote
Theresa - A post by cm5597 mentioned that the FE boards will edit out any mention of Ageless. This would explain why people are using the phrase "the other program" on the FE boards. It must be in reference to the prohibited Ageless.

cm5597 wrote:
So things that are edited on the forum include: Ageless is not allowed (due to the fact that there are some bad feelings since Loulou was a former FlexEffect trainer) but every single other facial exercise program is allowed to be mentioned...


I have not watched Loulou's video newsletters so I can't comment about her appearance. It does disappoint me to hear that she might have had some cosmetic work done and failed to disclose it (I don't care if it's a chemical peel or laser treatment or whatever, I'd like to know!). I am especially irked when people blatantly LIE about doing anything. Case in point is Nicole Kidman. I love her as an actress but lost tremendous respect for her as a person when she kept denying that she's done anything to her face and even went as far as to say, "its all natural, I have nothing in my face." Wow, how stupid does she think everyone is? Shock

She FINALLY came clean a tiny bit this year and admitted that she has "tried botox", lol! Good grief, tried is an understatement!! Her forehead alone has been frozen into a sheet of glass for years! Laughing

www.primped.com.au/blogs/zoes-blog/how-stupid-do-you-think-we-are-exactly

Like yourself, I don't give a hoot if anyone has had some work done or tried x-number of procedures to improve their appearance. Power to them! I do take offense (in a BIG way) if someone has done something, doesn't disclose it, and is trying to sell a product that misleads the public into thinking that it alone is the reason for the positive results. "Pulling a Nicole" is the kiss of death for your business if anything not openly disclosed is ever discovered. Mad

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Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:27 am      Reply with quote
Well I'm not sure how accurate Cm's response is. I'd much rather hear from Claudia/Deb if there is a reason why they banned Ageless and not the other programs (Claudia/Deb can you share us light on this). Does seem strange if every other program can be spoken of.

Well I don't know for sure, I'm just guessing but her face does look a bit different to me.

Agree with you 100% re disclosing. Its so common nowadays but when people try to hide it, it is insulting for sure.
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:35 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
(Claudia/Deb can you share us light on this). Does seem strange if every other program can be spoken of.


Sure I can address this. As you can see, flame wars get out of hand very quickly.

There were a handful of people who felt it was necessary to pick a side between Ageless and FlexEffect. The fact is, Ageless if far from the first program to have its Roots in FE. It's really a non issue. It's happened several times WAY before Ageless, and it will happen again. I find that smart, biz minded people will start their own gig. Very common.

IN FACT, Louise, was the ONLY former Flexer who stepped out and developed her own program. Completely different from FE. She borrowed NOTHING... She didn't "study all the rest, piecing together her favorite exercises" Calling them her own. Some have credited FE for their start... MANY have not... What are you gonna do... Move on I suppose...

However, people took it upon themselves (and I mean people that seemingly had NOTHING to do with the biz of Ageless, to come to the FE forum and either start a fight (those got OUT OF CONTROL), smiting people (an otherwise cute little Karma thing we have), and PMing others in effort to recruit ageless followers. We got a lot of complaints from actual Flexers who were getting annoyed by the advertising, and the inability to talk about FlexEffect without a person flaming them for it. Seemed counterproductive to our personal biz.

Sadly, we also had people that decided to clean out their posts. Removing all their former praise for FlexEffect, and we've seen their same photos they sent to us as b4/afters with FE on other sites now, with many thank yous for their program. (this isn't just an Ageless thing...we've seen this on a few sites. We don't press the issue. Why bother. A lier is a lier, we no longer need to be associated.)

In the end, the FE forum is for people to learn about FE. And we're ok if you want to TALK about other programs. But if you'd like to advertise, please do what others do.. and purchase your advertising elsewhere. If you'd like to fight... find a ring somewhere. We're neither an add agency, or the WWE.

FOR THE RECORD, and this is IMPORTANT... WE don't believe this had ANYTHING to do with Louise personaly, she never struck me as the type that would try to glean biz from others but rather on her own merits, and through her own efforts, just like the rest of us. However, it was becoming a drag having to babysit posts for constant flaming with regard to her biz.

So, YES, we blocked the word ageless, and put in a sub of "the other cheek program"... and viola... people became less interested in stiring the pot.

We have since changed it back, not too long ago in fact. People don't seem to care anymore. So, that is no longer a problem.

I must admit. It did make for some weird posts. C'est la vie...

Sorry for such a long answer... Felt like it needed to be a bit detailed...

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Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:26 am      Reply with quote
Claudia - thanks for the detailed info regarding the reason that Ageless was being edited out of posts in the FE forum. One mystery solved, another one or two to go! Wink

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Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:32 am      Reply with quote
Quote:
I also find it very telling that you cannot search for Ageless on FE's boards, but you can search for any other competitor's name. Yup, there is some bad blood here, that's for sure!


Oops, I just noticed that I crossed my wires in this comment and said you can't search for Ageless when I really meant to say you can't "mention" the name. Sorry about that.

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Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:54 am      Reply with quote
Thank you Claudia that does indeed clear things up. Also makes a lot of sense, as I had wondered what the other cheek program people were speaking about was!
ScotsLass wrote:
Claudia - thanks for the detailed info regarding the reason that Ageless was being edited out of posts in the FE forum. One mystery solved, another one or two to go! Wink
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