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Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:06 am  |
AngelaE8654 – I have asked both doctors, surgeons etc in the past, as I like you struggled at one point (but my muscles were weaker then) which makes me wonder if that’s your issue, that your muscles are weak and so unable to contract the corners to the eye or the ears or even the temples. There are several muscles that go into the mouth muscle which is circular, and that’s the way we eat, talk etc, the mouth moves and so it should. I have done facial exercises for the past 10 years, and seeing your post, went to the mirror and contracted my muscles and easily my mouth corners now move in whathever direction I want them to, and the fact that Eva Fraser has similar exercises is in itself proof that this can and will happen. You know Eva’s even been recommended by surgeons, so if it was impossible for them to move in such a way – I don’t think she’d have testimonials or a following after all?
Now in your recent post you say whether the mouth corners can point in one general direction, but that’s the thing, we’re not talking about a static motion, but a motion where you engage the muscles and the mouth corner has to go along for the ride, it has no choice. Go back and ask yoru MD.
The issue you are making here (and it is one you are making) is something that no one else has reported in a 126 page thread. Don’t you think if it was such a common issue we’d have seen at least one other post by someone other than yourself now? Surely you must agree it’s a bit strange not to. I can understand lurkers, but I’m bemused by your reluctance to even work with the suggestions and detailed graphics that others have posted to you.
Interestingly enough, Loulou isn’t the only person who recommends phrases instead of a count. Look at Ellae Elinwood’s book “Timeless Face”. |
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:12 am |
Well, Angela, you must have a muscle weakness in your face. I just finished contracting my cheek muscles in each of the directions indicated in Eva's drawings that Nonie posted on Thursday.
I put a finger at the place on the line that is farthest from the mouth, and I contract whatever cheek muscle that gives me a pull where I placed my finger.
The shape of the mouth changes each time. Instead of concentating on your mouth corners in the mirror, shut your eyes after having placed a finger anywhere on a line shown on Eva's drawing, and contract your cheek muscles on that pathway.
Try different cheek movements. Very simple unless you have a paralysis in your face, of course. |
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:26 am |
I do not have muscle weakness in my face. So far, all this has been is back-and-forth about how you CAN smile toward your eyes and smile toward your ears.
So far, someone posted a sketched drawing of someone supposedly smiling in different directions with drawn in lines pointing in different directions but the actual mouth in the drawing is NOT pointing differently. Then, someone posted a photo of the video I shared with "before and after" photos of someone's mouth after they had had the "lipt" surgery on the corners of their mouth. Deceptive as that was done by ACTUAL SURGERY on the mouth, NOT by someone smiling in two different directions.
Here is a photo from the expert herself: Loulou doing these two "different" smiles. The smile that's supposedly pointing "toward the eyes" is actually FLATTER and more straight out to the sides than the smile that's pointing toward her earlobes!! She's NOT "smiling toward her eyes" and she's the expert!! No facial muscle weakness here. The real difference in these photos is that she's got her cheeks scrunched up more in the one where she's supposedly (but not) "smiling toward her eyes". That's the difference, not the direction the corners of her mouth is pointing, which is what I've been saying all along. Even Loulou can't "smile toward her eyes".
Because I'm a "new member" the system won't let me attach a photo. So I'll do it this way:
leadice[dot]com/Loulou
Any member who chooses to post this actual image, go right ahead.  |
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:58 pm |
Hi all. The Exercise 1 instructions aren't intended to be a precise description of how the muscle works... It actually raises the sloping areas of the upper lip towards the eyes. That's how the muscle is angled, but I've found students understand and instinctively make the right movement by envisaging the corners of the lips moving vertically. Sometimes it's even helpful to imagine making a circle with the upper lip.
In any case, the correct motion for the exercise is achieved by a slight stretch of the imagination, and as Theresa Mary has discovered, the contraction that results from attempting a mouth-eye movement exercises the caput angulare directly and effectively. |
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Founder of the Ageless program: www.Agelessifyoudare.org. |
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:06 pm |
Actually, I have sympathy with Angela on the question of the various "smiles." Some years ago, at the beginning of my facial exercise journey, I bought a copy of Eva Fraser's Facial Fitness programme. I went at it with a will, but I just could not 'get' what was meant by the different direction of the "smiles." Eventually I gave up in frustration and bought myself another programme, which I've been doing happily for five years.
Thanks to those of you who've endeavoured to explain how to smile in different directions. If there's anyone else other than Angela and me who struggles with the concept, hopefully they've got a much better idea now. |
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:27 pm |
| Just to correct a mistake of Nonie's: Loulou is British, not American. Forgive me if someone else has already pointed this out. |
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:48 pm |
| otherloulou wrote: |
...I've found students understand and instinctively make the right movement by envisaging the corners of the lips moving vertically. Sometimes it's even helpful to imagine making a circle with the upper lip.
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Thank you, Loulou. That's pretty much what *I* got out of it, too...if one "imagines" that the lip corners are pointing toward the eye, he or she will be doing the correct action, regardless of the fact that if one was to look into a mirror they would see that their mouth corners are not pointing at their eyes. I think my first mistake was to do this in front of a mirror and try to literally make my mouth corners curl toward my eyes.
Since I know I will be "timed out" after this post and won't be able to post again I also wanted to thank newera for her posts. I didn't think I could possibly be the only one confused by the wording.  |
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:57 am |
| newera wrote: |
Actually, I have sympathy with Angela on the question of the various "smiles." Some years ago, at the beginning of my facial exercise journey, I bought a copy of Eva Fraser's Facial Fitness programme. I went at it with a will, but I just could not 'get' what was meant by the different direction of the "smiles." Eventually I gave up in frustration and bought myself another programme, which I've been doing happily for five years.
Thanks to those of you who've endeavoured to explain how to smile in different directions. If there's anyone else other than Angela and me who struggles with the concept, hopefully they've got a much better idea now. |
I'm going to chime in here and agree that the whole "smile towards xyz" had me very confused too and made Ageless as well as Eva's DVD rather stressful for me. I would prefer some movement that flows from me a little more naturally. I had to sit there and really puzzle it out. |
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:19 pm |
| bellabambiiina wrote: |
I'm going to chime in here and agree that the whole "smile towards xyz" had me very confused too and made Ageless as well as Eva's DVD rather stressful for me. I would prefer some movement that flows from me a little more naturally. I had to sit there and really puzzle it out. |
Just wanted to address the point in bold. Movements that come easily are movements you have done most of your life so the muscles involved in them are probably in good shape. Their "fitness" and thus your repeated actions in the same way has cause the creases that the movements create to be etched into your skin. When cosmetic surgeons scare people by saying "face exercises cause wrinkles", this is the cause and effect they are referring to. But what they don't seem to realize and this is where your bold statement above comes in, face exercises engage muscles you hardly use to strengthen them too. This is why some exercises seem difficult to do when you first start a program because the muscles called to play are weak and lazy. As you keep doing the best you can, they get stronger and the exercises get easier. The effect of the weak muscles getting stronger is they pull on the ones you use normally (since muscles are attached to each other) and this pull causes the creases created by the more commonly used muscles to open up and eventually flatten out.
So do not dismiss exercises that feel awkward as there is a reason they feel that way and if you are to get results, then you need to wake up and engage muscles you rarely use. Eva's "smile toward center of the eyes" exercise seemed impossible when I started her program. I mean, for 20 years of my life it is a movement I had never done. But it got easier with time and the results of my efforts spoke for themselves. |
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:13 pm |
Something that actually made me laugh when I saw it, after all this discussion about "smiling toward your eyes". Apparently in some circles, there is discussion about whether people have a "U Shaped smile" or a "C Shaped smile". Like our discussion on this thread, people were trying to literally figure out what was meant. Does it mean the shape of the teeth or is it the shape of the mouth when smiling? Here is what one of the "confused" folks were saying:
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| yeah, I don't understand what the f*ck is a C or U.. Both seem the same to me. lol |
Below is the answer from one of the certified "experts":
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There is NO such thing as a U or C shaped smile...its bullsh*t like most good material.
It's not something to be understood logically... it's just to show them "something interesting about theirselves that no one has ever told them" and guide them through the "emotional ride" of the routine.
*Night |
theattractionforums[dot]com/general-discussion/1515-cs-vs-us-routine-style-examples[dot]html
(I think this "c shaped smile/u shaped smile" thing is supposed to be a pick-up line that some guys use on girls.)
I won't say that "smiling toward the eyes" is b.s. or anything but it's also not a literal thing. It's in the imagination of the person doing the exercises so that they can engage the correct muscles in the correct manner. The engagement of the muscles is what's literal. |
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:03 pm |
| This thread has been around a long time and I have been "guided" here several times by Google. However, most of the "before and after" pictures that were once here are no longer here. Is there anywhere I can go to see more "Ageless if you Dare" before and after photos? (Even the photos that were apparently once on the "Ageless" website are no longer there.) I'd love to see some of you ladies' progress. |
_________________
Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:56 pm |
I was making dinner tonight and out of nowhere my husband said, "Why is it that as you get older you keep getting younger-looking??" And he wasn't trying to schmooze me, he was actually genuinely curious. Score! I asked him what he meant and he said my face looks younger and firmer and more supple. That was a great compliment! I was so excited. It's the first positive feedback that I'm on the right track.
What I've been doing is Ageless (love it) and also now have been doing the Tanaka massage for about a month, loving that too. I have also been using 100x washed ghee as my moisturizer. It's just amazing.
So, my routine right now is - I apply rose hip oil in the morning and do tanaka. I wash my face with warm water afterwards, and use some of the 100x washed ghee as a moisturizer. At night before bed I do Ageless and use more ghee. I don't know if there's a 100x washed ghee post here but there should be!
Ageless has has the most beneficial effect on my skin. Who knew that pulling it would make it look so darn good? |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:05 pm |
| little vase wrote: |
I was making dinner tonight and out of nowhere my husband said, "Why is it that as you get older you keep getting younger-looking??" And he wasn't trying to schmooze me, he was actually genuinely curious. Score! I asked him what he meant and he said my face looks younger and firmer and more supple. That was a great compliment! I was so excited. It's the first positive feedback that I'm on the right track.
What I've been doing is Ageless (love it) and also now have been doing the Tanaka massage for about a month, loving that too. I have also been using 100x washed ghee as my moisturizer. It's just amazing.
So, my routine right now is - I apply rose hip oil in the morning and do tanaka. I wash my face with warm water afterwards, and use some of the 100x washed ghee as a moisturizer. At night before bed I do Ageless and use more ghee. I don't know if there's a 100x washed ghee post here but there should be!
Ageless has has the most beneficial effect on my skin. Who knew that pulling it would make it look so darn good? |
Wow, what a great review, Little Vase. Thank you very much for posting it. I've been wondering about the Tanaka massage; I plan to look more into it as I've heard about it quite a bit recently.
I have been looking at the different facial exercises and to me, Loulou looks the absolute best and youngest out of all the developers. The other ones look good; don't get me wrong. But Loulou looks the best, IMO.
I'm still working on "getting into" the whole Ageless program, which I've played with a little bit but haven't done on a regular basis. I love hearing the reviews from people who have used it for a while. |
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Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou |
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:32 pm |
| Angela, I totally agree....the reason I picked Ageless was because of how good LouLou looks! I want to look that good too when I grow up ;P |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:54 am |
She looks damned good - but to see how absolutely AMAZING Ageless is, you have to look at her before photo and compare. It's astonishing, and very, very inspiring!
Check out the Ageless site under gallery, and compare LouLou's age 38 picture with her age 50 pic. If that doesn't sell you on Ageless, nothing will! |
_________________
Derminator, phytoceramides, Retin-A, DIY Vitamin C serum, Ageless if You Dare and Pilates! |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:39 pm |
| Immacolata wrote: |
She looks damned good - but to see how absolutely AMAZING Ageless is, you have to look at her before photo and compare. It's astonishing, and very, very inspiring!
Check out the Ageless site under gallery, and compare LouLou's age 38 picture with her age 50 pic. If that doesn't sell you on Ageless, nothing will! |
Yep. I saw the pictures. A little bit of difference is the lack of the "granny glasses" (which I also used to wear ) but even MORE is her smooth, even skin tone (quite a change from the "before" photos) and her much more prominent cheeks. Her skin looks absolutely beautiful now and it was just "blah" before. |
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Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:44 pm |
I still use and love a lot of the Ageless exercises too. I draw from other programs as well, always remembering Lou Lou's words of wisdom (somewhere) that not much good comes from turning the corners of one's mouth down.
I want to go just a little off topic here, so my apologies.
little vase, I had never heard of 100x washed ghee until your post. I did some Googling, and will spend my day tomorrow whipping up a batch. (I have to buy the organic butter first.) I have a feeling it will be a very welcome addition to my arsenal, especially for my arms and a couple of little eczema spots I occasionally experience. I will try it on my neck before using it on my face. Thanks for your post! |
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Female, 57, Retin-A, Vitamin C serum, AA Lightstim, Safetox, Pico toner, and facial exercise |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:16 pm |
MyrnaLoy, you're welcome! I have read in several places to try to mix it in a copper vessel because of the anti-bacterial properties, so that's what I did. It's actually very enjoyable and relaxing to make it. I ended up "only" washing it 30 or so times. I started with ghee from the store but next time I will make the ghee myself. Also, don't use the whole jar! The 100x supposedly only lasts a few weeks/a month or so before it starts to oxidize because of all the water in it. So any left over will go to waste. I make it fresh every month and a jar of ghee set aside for this should last me half a year. Tips: use icy water so the ghee doesn't liquefy. Set aside at least an hour to make it!
I find that it sinks in so well that I can still do Ageless even after using it. You know how you can't hold onto your skin when doing Ageless if you have oil or moisturizer on it? My skin drinks up the ghee so well that I can still grab a hunk of cheek to do the facial exercises  |
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:31 pm |
| MyrnaLoy wrote: |
little vase, I had never heard of 100x washed ghee until your post. I did some Googling, and will spend my day tomorrow whipping up a batch. (I have to buy the organic butter first.) I have a feeling it will be a very welcome addition to my arsenal, especially for my arms and a couple of little eczema spots I occasionally experience. I will try it on my neck before using it on my face. Thanks for your post! |
I looked it up too after Little Vase's post and I found a place who makes it. I'm most likely going to try it too. |
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Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:01 pm |
hello Little Vase,
this is the first time I hear of 100x washed ghee and I am very interested in how you make it.
can you please tell. Thanks a lot. |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:02 pm |
That is the same link I found. I imagine the end product has water in it, which ruins it for me. I am not a fan of using products with water in them on my skin as leave-ins. I think I'd be happier with just the ghee!  |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:18 pm |
Here is the place I found that sells it. Not sure if it has water in it or not:
ayurveda-holistic-medicine[dot]com/best-anti-aging-moisturizer[dot]html |
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Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:54 pm |
Someone should start a new post about washed ghee so we don't derail Ageless Am I allowed to? I don't have that many posts.
I will say (since I'm already posting!) that the directions on how to make it are on youtube. I used a copper vessel for the anti-bacterial properties...I read in several different places to use one. I mixed ghee with icy water many times. It took about an hour or so and was very enjoyable, but I like dull tedious tasks....lol.
It does hold onto a small amount of water. The water is actually what causes the ghee to eventually oxidize (turn a rust color) and that's when you throw it away and start all over. I love that it has water in it; it makes it so easy to spread, and is very cooling. If you practice ayurveda at all and know about your doshas, it's very grounding and brings down pitta to have a cooling oil on your skin. It really agrees with me. |
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:17 pm |
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
That is the same link I found. I imagine the end product has water in it, which ruins it for me. I am not a fan of using products with water in them on my skin as leave-ins. I think I'd be happier with just the ghee! |
Good point. I'm scared of the nasties too. Although, when I've made (cough) herbal butter, I put the cold butter and the ground herb in boiling water and simmer for a while, then cool down. When cool, the butter rises to the top of the pot and you just peel it off, remelt and strain, then cool again. It keeps quite a while in the fridge, at least a couple of weeks. But I would not want to go through this procedure every couple of weeks. 100 times? That would take all day! No thanks... |
_________________
Derminator, phytoceramides, Retin-A, DIY Vitamin C serum, Ageless if You Dare and Pilates! |
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