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Ageless if you Dare - Loulou's Facial Exercises

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TheresaMary
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:29 am      Reply with quote
Your mouth corners can eventually when you gain control of the muscles. For example a smile where your mouth corners goes towards your ears doesn’t use your cheek muscles, likewise where the corners go upwards that uses different muscles then when they go towards ears, and its about working the muscles after all. In the beginning it may be difficult to engage them so I can understand a frustration with that, but to say the instructions is untrue.

I have seen an article on the Korean procedure, and that’s something very different than exercises. Where it is being used though isn’t so much where people can smile, but where their mouth corners have turned downwards, and that’s something different than using facial exercises for anti aging purposes you know.
AngelaE7777 wrote:
I understand a person can have different expressions and even use their mouth in different ways. I get this. However, your "mouth corners" cannot sometimes go toward your eyes and sometimes go toward ear when you are smiling. In all the photos, ESPECIALLY the "Eva Frasier" drawing, the mouth when actually smiling has corners going in the SAME direction. The arrows drawn into the picture are pointing in different directions, but the mouth corners are not!! If a person is not actually smiling but are sneering or are making some other expression then the mouth corners aren't going ALL the way in the same direction as a smile. I get that, too. However, you cannot "smile toward your eye" and "smile toward your ear" and have two different things. In both cases, your smile is going in the SAME DIRECTION. You can't ACTUALLY "smile toward your eye".

There is a HUGE deal in Korea where people are getting plastic surgery on their "mouth corners" in order to have them look more like they are smiling and less like they are frowning. Why would they resort to plastic surgery if they could actually smile in different directions?


And no, I don't have a problem with English accents at all. It's the way she looks into the camera and talks in a barely audible way that LOOKS creepy to me. Turn your sound completely off and watch the video sometime. Watch how she looks at the camera sometimes. She seems perfectly nice (actually, she seems like a VERY nice lady) and her face looks great from the exercises, but to me the video is kind of creepy. I'm not saying that Loulou herself is creepy, just that the video creeps me out. That's just an "opinion" thing. Very Happy
TheresaMary
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:31 am      Reply with quote
There hasn’t been any confusion, and you can see by the length of this thread no one else but you has thought this, which is revealing. When you engage the muscles that lift up towards the eye, the mouth corners move. In fact any of the muscles you engage (and there are several that go into the mouth muscle) will move the corners. I think Loulou did an excellent job, but hey if the dvd isn’t working for you maybe you should try the book. As already explained she’s ggot photos in there of her doing the exercises and demoing the expressions and you may find that helpful and less creepy than the dvd. I have been a happy Ageless user (alongside other exercises) and know they work.

AngelaE7777 wrote:
I do agree with this and I didn't intend to make others think I didn't think the exercises themselves were different. I know they work different muscles. The reason I brought up the "smile" thing is that if a product is available to the general public, there WILL be some confusion if you say "smile toward your ears" and then "smile toward your eyes" as if they were two different things. When "smiling toward your eyes" you are actually lifting up more of the upper cheek muscles and THAT is the real difference, not the direction the corners of the mouth are actually pointing. When dealing with the general public, you MUST be literal or you will have confusion. Perhaps if it were described as "imagine you are smiling toward your eyes" instead of literally saying "smile toward your eyes" would help.
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:59 am      Reply with quote
We obviously aren't going to agree about whether the corners of the mouth can actually point toward the eyes or whether they can't. I suspect if you asked an actual M.D. who is an Orthopedist (a doctor who specializes in muscles) whether the mouth corners can actually point toward the eyes sometimes and toward the ears other times they'd tell you "no, the mouth corners point in one general direction but the facial muscles can do different actions, which may make it SEEM as if the mouth is moving differently."

Just because the actual posters on this thread haven't brought up what I brought up does not mean for a second that other people haven't thought it. Forums like this have hundreds of lurkers for every one person who posts. I, myself, have lurked here for YEARS. Yes, years. It often comes up in the first page of Google for subjects I have questions about, as I am interested in makeup and skin care and all of that. (Especially reviews about different products; that's how I usually get here is by looking for a review of something.) I know for a fact that I am not the only one who has lurked for so long without posting. If you look at popular forums with hundreds of thousands of members, you will see thousands and thousands of registered members who have never made one single post. Not one. And that's just the registered people; that doesn't include the lurkers who have never signed up. So no, your reasoning that I must be the only one who has ever wondered about this anatomy question because I'm the only one in this thread who has ever said it does not work based on facts about forums.

One GOOD thing I will say about Loulou's program that I haven't seen anywhere else is the positive expressions she teaches us to use while doing the exercises. Things like:

"Delighted to see you"

"It's wonderful to feel happy"

"There is so much to amaze me"

I think those are GREAT. Saying such positive things helps the user to FEEL positive. When one feels positive, their entire face is more "lit up". Positive messages are great and I applaud Loulou for thinking of it.
TheresaMary
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:06 am      Reply with quote
AngelaE8654 – I have asked both doctors, surgeons etc in the past, as I like you struggled at one point (but my muscles were weaker then) which makes me wonder if that’s your issue, that your muscles are weak and so unable to contract the corners to the eye or the ears or even the temples. There are several muscles that go into the mouth muscle which is circular, and that’s the way we eat, talk etc, the mouth moves and so it should. I have done facial exercises for the past 10 years, and seeing your post, went to the mirror and contracted my muscles and easily my mouth corners now move in whathever direction I want them to, and the fact that Eva Fraser has similar exercises is in itself proof that this can and will happen. You know Eva’s even been recommended by surgeons, so if it was impossible for them to move in such a way – I don’t think she’d have testimonials or a following after all?

Now in your recent post you say whether the mouth corners can point in one general direction, but that’s the thing, we’re not talking about a static motion, but a motion where you engage the muscles and the mouth corner has to go along for the ride, it has no choice. Go back and ask yoru MD.

The issue you are making here (and it is one you are making) is something that no one else has reported in a 126 page thread. Don’t you think if it was such a common issue we’d have seen at least one other post by someone other than yourself now? Surely you must agree it’s a bit strange not to. I can understand lurkers, but I’m bemused by your reluctance to even work with the suggestions and detailed graphics that others have posted to you.

Interestingly enough, Loulou isn’t the only person who recommends phrases instead of a count. Look at Ellae Elinwood’s book “Timeless Face”.
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:12 am      Reply with quote
Well, Angela, you must have a muscle weakness in your face. I just finished contracting my cheek muscles in each of the directions indicated in Eva's drawings that Nonie posted on Thursday.
I put a finger at the place on the line that is farthest from the mouth, and I contract whatever cheek muscle that gives me a pull where I placed my finger.
The shape of the mouth changes each time. Instead of concentating on your mouth corners in the mirror, shut your eyes after having placed a finger anywhere on a line shown on Eva's drawing, and contract your cheek muscles on that pathway.
Try different cheek movements. Very simple unless you have a paralysis in your face, of course.
AngelaE8654
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:26 am      Reply with quote
I do not have muscle weakness in my face. So far, all this has been is back-and-forth about how you CAN smile toward your eyes and smile toward your ears.

So far, someone posted a sketched drawing of someone supposedly smiling in different directions with drawn in lines pointing in different directions but the actual mouth in the drawing is NOT pointing differently. Then, someone posted a photo of the video I shared with "before and after" photos of someone's mouth after they had had the "lipt" surgery on the corners of their mouth. Deceptive as that was done by ACTUAL SURGERY on the mouth, NOT by someone smiling in two different directions.


Here is a photo from the expert herself: Loulou doing these two "different" smiles. The smile that's supposedly pointing "toward the eyes" is actually FLATTER and more straight out to the sides than the smile that's pointing toward her earlobes!! She's NOT "smiling toward her eyes" and she's the expert!! No facial muscle weakness here. The real difference in these photos is that she's got her cheeks scrunched up more in the one where she's supposedly (but not) "smiling toward her eyes". That's the difference, not the direction the corners of her mouth is pointing, which is what I've been saying all along. Even Loulou can't "smile toward her eyes".

Because I'm a "new member" the system won't let me attach a photo. So I'll do it this way:


leadice[dot]com/Loulou


Any member who chooses to post this actual image, go right ahead. Smile
otherloulou
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:58 pm      Reply with quote
Hi all. The Exercise 1 instructions aren't intended to be a precise description of how the muscle works... It actually raises the sloping areas of the upper lip towards the eyes. That's how the muscle is angled, but I've found students understand and instinctively make the right movement by envisaging the corners of the lips moving vertically. Sometimes it's even helpful to imagine making a circle with the upper lip.
In any case, the correct motion for the exercise is achieved by a slight stretch of the imagination, and as Theresa Mary has discovered, the contraction that results from attempting a mouth-eye movement exercises the caput angulare directly and effectively.

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Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:06 pm      Reply with quote
Actually, I have sympathy with Angela on the question of the various "smiles." Some years ago, at the beginning of my facial exercise journey, I bought a copy of Eva Fraser's Facial Fitness programme. I went at it with a will, but I just could not 'get' what was meant by the different direction of the "smiles." Eventually I gave up in frustration and bought myself another programme, which I've been doing happily for five years.

Thanks to those of you who've endeavoured to explain how to smile in different directions. If there's anyone else other than Angela and me who struggles with the concept, hopefully they've got a much better idea now.
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:27 pm      Reply with quote
Just to correct a mistake of Nonie's: Loulou is British, not American. Forgive me if someone else has already pointed this out.
AngelaE8654
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Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:48 pm      Reply with quote
otherloulou wrote:
...I've found students understand and instinctively make the right movement by envisaging the corners of the lips moving vertically. Sometimes it's even helpful to imagine making a circle with the upper lip.


Thank you, Loulou. That's pretty much what *I* got out of it, too...if one "imagines" that the lip corners are pointing toward the eye, he or she will be doing the correct action, regardless of the fact that if one was to look into a mirror they would see that their mouth corners are not pointing at their eyes. I think my first mistake was to do this in front of a mirror and try to literally make my mouth corners curl toward my eyes.

Since I know I will be "timed out" after this post and won't be able to post again I also wanted to thank newera for her posts. I didn't think I could possibly be the only one confused by the wording. Very Happy
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:57 am      Reply with quote
newera wrote:
Actually, I have sympathy with Angela on the question of the various "smiles." Some years ago, at the beginning of my facial exercise journey, I bought a copy of Eva Fraser's Facial Fitness programme. I went at it with a will, but I just could not 'get' what was meant by the different direction of the "smiles." Eventually I gave up in frustration and bought myself another programme, which I've been doing happily for five years.

Thanks to those of you who've endeavoured to explain how to smile in different directions. If there's anyone else other than Angela and me who struggles with the concept, hopefully they've got a much better idea now.


I'm going to chime in here and agree that the whole "smile towards xyz" had me very confused too and made Ageless as well as Eva's DVD rather stressful for me. I would prefer some movement that flows from me a little more naturally. I had to sit there and really puzzle it out.
Nonie aka AD
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:19 pm      Reply with quote
bellabambiiina wrote:

I'm going to chime in here and agree that the whole "smile towards xyz" had me very confused too and made Ageless as well as Eva's DVD rather stressful for me. I would prefer some movement that flows from me a little more naturally. I had to sit there and really puzzle it out.


Just wanted to address the point in bold. Movements that come easily are movements you have done most of your life so the muscles involved in them are probably in good shape. Their "fitness" and thus your repeated actions in the same way has cause the creases that the movements create to be etched into your skin. When cosmetic surgeons scare people by saying "face exercises cause wrinkles", this is the cause and effect they are referring to. But what they don't seem to realize and this is where your bold statement above comes in, face exercises engage muscles you hardly use to strengthen them too. This is why some exercises seem difficult to do when you first start a program because the muscles called to play are weak and lazy. As you keep doing the best you can, they get stronger and the exercises get easier. The effect of the weak muscles getting stronger is they pull on the ones you use normally (since muscles are attached to each other) and this pull causes the creases created by the more commonly used muscles to open up and eventually flatten out.

So do not dismiss exercises that feel awkward as there is a reason they feel that way and if you are to get results, then you need to wake up and engage muscles you rarely use. Eva's "smile toward center of the eyes" exercise seemed impossible when I started her program. I mean, for 20 years of my life it is a movement I had never done. But it got easier with time and the results of my efforts spoke for themselves.
AngelaE8654
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:13 pm      Reply with quote
Something that actually made me laugh when I saw it, after all this discussion about "smiling toward your eyes". Apparently in some circles, there is discussion about whether people have a "U Shaped smile" or a "C Shaped smile". Like our discussion on this thread, people were trying to literally figure out what was meant. Does it mean the shape of the teeth or is it the shape of the mouth when smiling? Here is what one of the "confused" folks were saying:

Quote:
yeah, I don't understand what the f*ck is a C or U.. Both seem the same to me. lol


Below is the answer from one of the certified "experts":

Quote:
There is NO such thing as a U or C shaped smile...its bullsh*t like most good material.
It's not something to be understood logically... it's just to show them "something interesting about theirselves that no one has ever told them" and guide them through the "emotional ride" of the routine.
*Night


theattractionforums[dot]com/general-discussion/1515-cs-vs-us-routine-style-examples[dot]html

(I think this "c shaped smile/u shaped smile" thing is supposed to be a pick-up line that some guys use on girls.)


I won't say that "smiling toward the eyes" is b.s. or anything but it's also not a literal thing. It's in the imagination of the person doing the exercises so that they can engage the correct muscles in the correct manner. The engagement of the muscles is what's literal. Smile
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:03 pm      Reply with quote
This thread has been around a long time and I have been "guided" here several times by Google. However, most of the "before and after" pictures that were once here are no longer here. Is there anywhere I can go to see more "Ageless if you Dare" before and after photos? (Even the photos that were apparently once on the "Ageless" website are no longer there.) I'd love to see some of you ladies' progress. Smile

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little vase
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:56 pm      Reply with quote
I was making dinner tonight and out of nowhere my husband said, "Why is it that as you get older you keep getting younger-looking??" And he wasn't trying to schmooze me, he was actually genuinely curious. Score! I asked him what he meant and he said my face looks younger and firmer and more supple. That was a great compliment! I was so excited. It's the first positive feedback that I'm on the right track.

What I've been doing is Ageless (love it) and also now have been doing the Tanaka massage for about a month, loving that too. I have also been using 100x washed ghee as my moisturizer. It's just amazing.

So, my routine right now is - I apply rose hip oil in the morning and do tanaka. I wash my face with warm water afterwards, and use some of the 100x washed ghee as a moisturizer. At night before bed I do Ageless and use more ghee. I don't know if there's a 100x washed ghee post here but there should be!

Ageless has has the most beneficial effect on my skin. Who knew that pulling it would make it look so darn good?
AngelaE8654
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:05 pm      Reply with quote
little vase wrote:
I was making dinner tonight and out of nowhere my husband said, "Why is it that as you get older you keep getting younger-looking??" And he wasn't trying to schmooze me, he was actually genuinely curious. Score! I asked him what he meant and he said my face looks younger and firmer and more supple. That was a great compliment! I was so excited. It's the first positive feedback that I'm on the right track.

What I've been doing is Ageless (love it) and also now have been doing the Tanaka massage for about a month, loving that too. I have also been using 100x washed ghee as my moisturizer. It's just amazing.

So, my routine right now is - I apply rose hip oil in the morning and do tanaka. I wash my face with warm water afterwards, and use some of the 100x washed ghee as a moisturizer. At night before bed I do Ageless and use more ghee. I don't know if there's a 100x washed ghee post here but there should be!

Ageless has has the most beneficial effect on my skin. Who knew that pulling it would make it look so darn good?


Wow, what a great review, Little Vase. Thank you very much for posting it. I've been wondering about the Tanaka massage; I plan to look more into it as I've heard about it quite a bit recently.

I have been looking at the different facial exercises and to me, Loulou looks the absolute best and youngest out of all the developers. The other ones look good; don't get me wrong. But Loulou looks the best, IMO.

I'm still working on "getting into" the whole Ageless program, which I've played with a little bit but haven't done on a regular basis. I love hearing the reviews from people who have used it for a while. Smile

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little vase
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:32 pm      Reply with quote
Angela, I totally agree....the reason I picked Ageless was because of how good LouLou looks! I want to look that good too when I grow up ;P
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:54 am      Reply with quote
She looks damned good - but to see how absolutely AMAZING Ageless is, you have to look at her before photo and compare. It's astonishing, and very, very inspiring!

Check out the Ageless site under gallery, and compare LouLou's age 38 picture with her age 50 pic. If that doesn't sell you on Ageless, nothing will!

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Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:39 pm      Reply with quote
Immacolata wrote:
She looks damned good - but to see how absolutely AMAZING Ageless is, you have to look at her before photo and compare. It's astonishing, and very, very inspiring!

Check out the Ageless site under gallery, and compare LouLou's age 38 picture with her age 50 pic. If that doesn't sell you on Ageless, nothing will!


Yep. I saw the pictures. A little bit of difference is the lack of the "granny glasses" (which I also used to wear Very Happy) but even MORE is her smooth, even skin tone (quite a change from the "before" photos) and her much more prominent cheeks. Her skin looks absolutely beautiful now and it was just "blah" before.

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Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:44 pm      Reply with quote
I still use and love a lot of the Ageless exercises too. I draw from other programs as well, always remembering Lou Lou's words of wisdom (somewhere) that not much good comes from turning the corners of one's mouth down.

I want to go just a little off topic here, so my apologies.

little vase, I had never heard of 100x washed ghee until your post. I did some Googling, and will spend my day tomorrow whipping up a batch. (I have to buy the organic butter first.) I have a feeling it will be a very welcome addition to my arsenal, especially for my arms and a couple of little eczema spots I occasionally experience. I will try it on my neck before using it on my face. Thanks for your post!

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little vase
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:16 pm      Reply with quote
MyrnaLoy, you're welcome! I have read in several places to try to mix it in a copper vessel because of the anti-bacterial properties, so that's what I did. It's actually very enjoyable and relaxing to make it. I ended up "only" washing it 30 or so times. I started with ghee from the store but next time I will make the ghee myself. Also, don't use the whole jar! The 100x supposedly only lasts a few weeks/a month or so before it starts to oxidize because of all the water in it. So any left over will go to waste. I make it fresh every month and a jar of ghee set aside for this should last me half a year. Tips: use icy water so the ghee doesn't liquefy. Set aside at least an hour to make it!

I find that it sinks in so well that I can still do Ageless even after using it. You know how you can't hold onto your skin when doing Ageless if you have oil or moisturizer on it? My skin drinks up the ghee so well that I can still grab a hunk of cheek to do the facial exercises Wink
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Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:31 pm      Reply with quote
MyrnaLoy wrote:


little vase, I had never heard of 100x washed ghee until your post. I did some Googling, and will spend my day tomorrow whipping up a batch. (I have to buy the organic butter first.) I have a feeling it will be a very welcome addition to my arsenal, especially for my arms and a couple of little eczema spots I occasionally experience. I will try it on my neck before using it on my face. Thanks for your post!



I looked it up too after Little Vase's post and I found a place who makes it. I'm most likely going to try it too.

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Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:01 pm      Reply with quote
hello Little Vase,
this is the first time I hear of 100x washed ghee and I am very interested in how you make it.
can you please tell. Thanks a lot.
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Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:11 pm      Reply with quote
I googled and found this:

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda-health-wellbeing/262096-procedure-prepare-shatdhauta-ghrut.html

Sounds tedious - if I were going to use it, I would probably buy it already washed!

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Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:02 pm      Reply with quote
Immacolata wrote:
I googled and found this:

http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/ayurveda-health-wellbeing/262096-procedure-prepare-shatdhauta-ghrut.html

Sounds tedious - if I were going to use it, I would probably buy it already washed!


That is the same link I found. I imagine the end product has water in it, which ruins it for me. I am not a fan of using products with water in them on my skin as leave-ins. I think I'd be happier with just the ghee! Laughing
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