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Ageless if you Dare - Loulou's Facial Exercises
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TheresaMary
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:24 pm      Reply with quote
I'm sorry but I'm interested in facts and proof about things which is why I spoke up. I am a fan of facial exercises and have done them for the past 20 plus years so think I'm actually in a good position to offer advice to others. I have had ups and downs - and the original poster was asking for honest feedback. Although I like Loulou, I do have issues with trying to pretend that facial exercises fix everything. Whilst the thread I shared above is recent, and Megi experience serious problems which have not changed despite not doing any exercises, I think its really bad of both you and Loulou to suggest that facial exercises offer no ill effects. They quite clearly do.

Many have experienced issues from facial exercises and have gone to the various program authors. Nonie for example had issues with FlexEffect and went to the trainers and got no assistance whatsoever. TheresaCats had issues with a different program. Megi had issues with Facial Aerobics. Yet these are all serious incidences that you would have others believe do not exist - whereas this forum proves they do.

Loulou said "The effects of any exercise programme are reversible" and like I said, if that were true then none of the above posters would have posted their results and examples for others to consider.

Whilst I get Ageless is a good program, I am not sure its such that doesn't have any issues whatsoever. The Ageless forum showed also that many did have issues (which is probably why it is no longer around). Sorry but to try to say to youngsters that they will have no issues, and that when they do its all in their mind is just plain wrong and inaccurate.
TheresaMary
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:30 pm      Reply with quote
Steve

Thank you for clarifying. Like I said, I have more issue with the quote that facial exercises do not create permanent damage. Albeit like I said, I know the examples I have given are not about Ageless, I do recall on the older Ageless forum that there were youngsters who had issues. That's the only point I was really striving to make.

I know Loulou is on a mission to promote her program and I support her all the way, but like I said I have seen people under 30 try them, and I am yet to see anyone under 30 get results that they are completely happy with, and not end up depressed. I have said, its my personal opinion that they are not for people under 40 and I stand by that statement completely.

Likewise the facts that exercises do not cause permanent issues is incorrect, and something that I know you are striving to have people believe. This forum has had users share their results. I have mentioned some names already, including a recent thread by a youngster who has issues (albeit it was Faceaerobics - for clarity) but they have not done anything for 2-3 months as you will see from the link above and they are still concerned over what they have done. I'm sorry but I think people need to see and hear all views on this and whilst mine in respect to youngsters does differ - it does not take away from the fact I am a believer in them. I think they are valid and are a great tool but they are not for everyone.
Louise Annette wrote:
THIS IS STEVE, writing from loulouís account because mine isnít working!

I should say that almost none of our sales are to women under 35. Loulou makes it clear to young women that itís certainly not necessary to begin early, and that they could do better things with their time and money Im not writing to encourage any young person to buy Ageless. I think they donít need to bother. The reason Iím writing this is purely to set the record straight.

We have never in 10 years of Ageless had anyone claim that their face was spoiled. In fact, the only reason anyone has ever asked for a refund is because of download/technical problems.


Ageless lifts the face in one piece, like a facelift. It doesnít distort it in any way. It just tightens the supports that pull the structure up towards the bone, so that jowls, n/ls and heavy lower face are automatically improved. Thereís an explanation of it on our site. So even if you could permanently overtrain some muscles, the exercises in the Ageless program arenít of that kind. All you could do is lift your face too high. But the poster is just wrong anyway. Programs that build muscles donít cause permanent damage either, and to say that they do causes confusion and anxiety without any basis in fact.

You might as well say that swimming ruins your body. If for any reason you donít like the look of your face, you stop and it goes away. There would be dire warnings in the media if this was a real danger, photos on the news, these donít exist. There are no pictures of older women with permanently ruined faces. What you have is reports from four or five unhappy women not liking their faces as they age and concluding themselves that facial exercise caused their issues. They canít know this!

The program is fine for young women, loulou doesnít recommend early training, but not because it is damaging, but that itís not much help. People here know that she is honest about what people would and would not benefit from. Sheís very clear, for example, that Hotspots should not be considered a necessary part of the Ageless program. Itís very unfair to accuse her of misleading people.



Steve Royce Ageless if you Dare
ballerina
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:22 pm      Reply with quote
As you always say, sorry to disagree.This is what I mean. Your idea of proof and facts is laughable. One woman claiming that her face has been ruined and that facial exercise did it. Thatís not a fact, itís a guess. Itís a wrong guess unless the person who posted it is different from everyone I know.
Stick with lou lou. She tells you not to bother w agel when youíre young, so why wouldnít she say if it was in advisable. Stop scaremongering whenyou cant tell one anecdote from evidence.

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TheresaMary
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:50 pm      Reply with quote
I have not just mentioned one example - but if you reread my message above there are three posters who have had issues with facial exercises, who have been really open about their experiences and posted on EDS. I don't knojw them personally, but I mention their names and people can search their names to make up their own viewpoint, but to say that facial exercises cannot do harm is I'm sorry not an opinion that those three people share.

As I said in my original post, I think Ageless is a good program, but I share the same opinion as Loulou which is when people are young they really don't need it. You openly criticise my posts yet you ignore those three people who have openly posted (and still visit EDS).

I am not scaremongering - and you are trying to justify your own opinion, which you are entitled to as anyone, but to say this is all in my mind, is laughable. I have posted just one linjk to the thread, where the person is open about her results and her face not having returned. Sorry but I think people are entitled to all information before they begin any program. Also it should be noted I have given three names (not one as you are assuming). I did share one link to a recent thread that the original poster was on - during that very SAME DAY. I think the person who needs to actually look at EVIDENCE here is not me but you.
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ballerina wrote:
As you always say, sorry to disagree.This is what I mean. Your idea of proof and facts is laughable. One woman claiming that her face has been ruined and that facial exercise did it. Thatís not a fact, itís a guess. Itís a wrong guess unless the person who posted it is different from everyone I know.
Stick with lou lou. She tells you not to bother w agel when youíre young, so why wouldnít she say if it was in advisable. Stop scaremongering whenyou cant tell one anecdote from evidence.
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:16 pm      Reply with quote
Oh Iím sorry, there are three unqualified people who think their faces have been ruined, and that facial exercises caused it. That proves it then. Have you the first idea what evidence is. No you havenít because you think that three people claiming something outweighs the experience of thousands of people. Why donít older women get wrinkles from facial exercises then if young women do? Iím not going to ignore your posts until you stop saying ridiculous things and waving anecdotes around as EVIDENCE. I just hope the readers of this thread are smart enough to see how feeble your argument is. You are misleading because you donít understand what constitutes EVIDENCE and what constitutes THE THEORY OF THREE SELF-DIAGNOSED people 🙄

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TheresaMary
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:28 pm      Reply with quote
Three unqualified people? Please clarify that - from what I know, one actually reversed her negative results with a different program and continues to this day to assist people from all walks of life and help out (on EDS and elsewhere) (that is Nonie).

You ask if I have the first idea what evidence is - well I actually do. So you speak of evidence, well I would ask you where is the evidence that facial exercises work? Seriously. I know of only one study that has been done by Gary of Happy Face Yoga, which was self funded. It has been an open and valid criticism of all facial exercise programs out there. So where is the specific evidence you suggest that exists for Ageless. Seriously - I am really keen to read it and view it (and so would everyone else I'm sure).

I do not discredit other peoples results at all. Far from it, and I DO EXERCISES MYSELF. I have also done Ageless since it first came out.

So please openly share the facts you speak of and the actual evidence and I will take it all back. Seriously - I cannot be more upfront about it than that. I am not misleading anyone, I am simply offering that facial exercises do not work for everyone and some people have had bad experiences. I am not lying or misleading or shifting factual information at all, and never have throughout this whole thread.

As my original post said to the original poster who posted, I personally stated that I am of the OPINION (note not fact) that facial exercises are not for young people (under 40). I cannot make that statement any more clearer than I already have done so.

ballerina wrote:
Oh Iím sorry, there are three unqualified people who think their faces have been ruined, and that facial exercises caused it. That proves it then. Have you the first idea what evidence is. No you havenít because you think that three people claiming something outweighs the experience of thousands of people. Why donít older women get wrinkles from facial exercises then if young women do? Iím not going to ignore your posts until you stop saying ridiculous things and waving anecdotes around as EVIDENCE. I just hope the readers of this thread are smart enough to see how feeble your argument is. You are misleading because you donít understand what constitutes EVIDENCE and what constitutes THE THEORY OF THREE SELF-DIAGNOSED people 🙄

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TheresaMary
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:46 pm      Reply with quote
I have a desire to help people. Something I think deep down you do too. Which is why I posted in the first place and continue to post. I answer questions all the time from others and do not in any way shape or form say I am qualified to do so. However I have a longevity just as you do, and I have seen many programs (like you have) so that experience counts for something.

I do not consider myself important, but I think our younger people are. When people like the original poster show up, I think its our duty to help them out to the best of our ability. Which is why I shared my PERSONAL OPINION. As I have said frequently - I do facial exercises. I see Loulou shares a similar opinion in youngsters not needing to do facial exercises, which is the original point I was trying to make. However, to suggest that no harm comes from them is the MISLEADING part. I have mentioned 3 names, but there are others who have openly shared, but those three people I have tried to help myself. If you take a look at the thread I posted above (which Megi was on at the time Loulou posted) you will see that I am not advising against facial exercises to her (although she is 31 years and that's young). I'm eagerly awaiting for the evidence that you have spoken of and we are all really interested in learning what scientific evidence you have that we have not yet seen, so please do share.
Louise Annette
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Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:07 am      Reply with quote
Apologies, my post to follow
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Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:23 pm      Reply with quote
Hi All,

We are re-opening this thread with a reminder to please refrain from personal attacks. If someone posts a viewpoint with which you strongly disagree then focus on refuting the idea they have expressed with [insert logical reasoning here]. Attack the message, not the member who posted it. Several posts have been removed or moderated for this reason.

Thank you.
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Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:25 am      Reply with quote
Me again on loulouís login

Hello everyone,

Just to say that the Hotspots bootcamp programme is available now on the Ageless site
Agelessifyoudare.org but we will retire it again after Christmas!

Steve

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Tatayoyo
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Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:56 am      Reply with quote
Thank you all for your reply and advises and sorry to come back late as I have little access to internet right now.

I got the program easy 10 and the massage program too. I will start soon and will let you know what's happening for me Smile
I will try to keep the training "light" with one day with the first 5 exercices (Day 1) and the other day the 5 others (Day 2), then do day 3 and 4 of massage, then 5 and 6 do the exercices again...
To not overbuild the face and to have the days of massage to rest in between (is that a good good plan ? Very Happy ).
Even though I'm 31, I still think I need it as my face has really changed in a couple of weeks. I don't think I need much, that's the good news. Just to plump and firm it a little !

Lisette I would like to ask you, do you have lots of "young" clients like me and what feedbacks do you have with them ? Would you have specific advise except not overworking the face ?

Thank you!!
Louise Annette
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Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:13 am      Reply with quote
Hi Tatayoyo

I hope youíre feeling better now. seeing results from your program( it does happen very quickly, just as you lost your face very quickly, because the way you hold your face changes almost overnight.

When youíre ill or tired the facial muscles behave like all your other muscles, they slump and this gives the same effect as a much older face.

As soon as you begin Ageless your muscles will pick up and hold your face in a lifted, more alert position.

Please donít worry about the volume of exercise. You wonít overdevelop your muscles, but you will look tired in the short term, and thatís what youíre trying to correct.

The way youíre approaching the programme is how I intended it to work, with each dayís routine being done day1 the first day, day 2 on day 2, exactly what it sounds like! Just rest for a week or so now and then to gauge your results.

I hope you restore your face to radiant good health in a very short time. The lift that happens early on will spur you on. Or in your case, it might be all you need.

Hugs,

Loulou xx

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Louise Annette
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:00 am      Reply with quote
Answering a couple of questions Iíve received via email.

Can you have filler and still do facial exercises?
Answer, yes, but the filler will dissipate quicker in areas that you Massage and exercise. In my experience this is not all that drastic, however, and the corresponding thickening in flesh and skin will compensate, meaning that you need less and less filler over time.

Can you have Botox and do facial exercises?
Answer, um no.

Loulou 🤗

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Louise Annette
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:11 am      Reply with quote
This is just to answer a query several people have asked about the Hotspots programme.

Hotspots is not essential, you will lift your face most efficiently and easily with the Easy Ten,which is all about lifting and smoothing out the face.

The Hotspots programne is a collection of 4-week boot camp schedules, one each for neck, eyes, cheeks, forehead and lips. Itís not for the long term, just for impatient people who are prepared to do some extra work and quite possibly to look slightly battered before the results show.

Weíre only selling it on the site until Christmas 🎄

Thanks for your attention 👍🏼
Louise 😎🤗

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Tatayoyo
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Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:18 am      Reply with quote
I'm back after almost 1 month of exercising with Ageless.
I do all the cheeks exercices of day 1 everyday from monday to friday, with 2 days resting in the weekend.

So far I have not see progress about my main concern. I have this big pouch at the side of my right corner of mouth, which was not existing before my weight loss.
(Ps: I wanted to add pics, how to ?? It says its not possible for new members Smile

I dont know if it's fat, or the muscles around the mouth that now appear because of the fat lost in the area. Now I'm back on my normal weight but it is still there and the fat is not back, and the pouch still there:(
My cheeks are also not really back.

Do you think the exercices are efficient for this problem in particular and should I do more prep to see results ? Maybe one month is short..

And is there any diet tips that I should be careful of for getting back these fat face ?

Thank you for your help and advises and happy new year !
TheresaMary
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:06 am      Reply with quote
Tatayoyo - why have you not followed the recommendations (Day 1, Day 2) and chosen to do only Day 1 5x a week? Its likely that you are overdoing things early on, and thats not going to give you good results. I suspect Loulou is best person to advise you, but I would encourage you to go back to how Loulou designed her program (so you don't do the same exercise every single day).

You are not going to make progress if you don't follow the guidelines Loulou has laid out for you.
Its really that simple I'm afraid.

I hope you get better results but would really suggest you go back and reread the book.
Tatayoyo wrote:
I'm back after almost 1 month of exercising with Ageless.
I do all the cheeks exercices of day 1 everyday from monday to friday, with 2 days resting in the weekend.

So far I have not see progress about my main concern. I have this big pouch at the side of my right corner of mouth, which was not existing before my weight loss.
(Ps: I wanted to add pics, how to ?? It says its not possible for new members Smile

I dont know if it's fat, or the muscles around the mouth that now appear because of the fat lost in the area. Now I'm back on my normal weight but it is still there and the fat is not back, and the pouch still there:(
My cheeks are also not really back.

Do you think the exercices are efficient for this problem in particular and should I do more prep to see results ? Maybe one month is short..

And is there any diet tips that I should be careful of for getting back these fat face ?

Thank you for your help and advises and happy new year !
Tatayoyo
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:35 pm      Reply with quote
I did so because my main concerns was volume lost and skin sagging, and that I wanted to have quick result on my cheeks especially. Also after studying the book, I did not feel the need for my face now to work on eyes and neck because they are fine so far.
But I also understand your point and that instructions given by the person creating the program are here for a reason Wink


For the moment, everything is fine and I still have 2 full days of rest. Loulou I would love to hear your opinion about what I'm doing and if I should keep hope about the big pouch at the corner of my mouth (or, if it is the muscle showing because of weight loss and lacking of fat ?)

In the meantime, would you have any tips regarding a specific diet to avoid hollow cheeks and get some fat back on my face ?

Thank you !
TheresaMary
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Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:22 am      Reply with quote
Well you learned like the rest of us, the hard way that more isn't always better. Believe me, I've made similar mistakes and moreso and learned that lesson well.

I'm not sure there is a specific diet that anyone can recommend to solve this issue for you, as it may not be diet per se but rather over training. You see even though you are young, your body is and will still change as the years progress. What you have done with your face is really overwork it by doing just Day 1 exercises every day with 2 days rest, for a month now. That's kind of too much for most people, especially as you weren't dealing with sagging etc. I'm not sure what the area of the mouth is muscle wise, as I understood that the mouth was a ring muscle, but you may have overworked one of the cheek muscles that connects into the mouth (i'm guessing).

One of the often recommendations people get when they do overwork their faces (from all programs) is to rest up moreso and enable their faces to recover. So my hunch is kind of thinking that's what you actually need to do. Rather than doing more, doing less. Hopefully Loulou will be along shortly to address your question, but you may also want to email her or Steve and see if you can get any advice from them regarding this situation. I'm not sure how often or regularly they come here to advise (as there may be restrictions on that).

Wishing you a speedy recovery and hope you get this issue sorted rapidly.
Tatayoyo wrote:
In the meantime, would you have any tips regarding a specific diet to avoid hollow cheeks and get some fat back on my face ?

Thank you !
Tatayoyo
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Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:25 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you for answering Smile

The pouch is actually my initial concern, why I started the program, and not a result of it.
It looks like skin sagging at the corner of my mouth. It has been there since day one and appeared right after my weight loss so it is not for sure a consequence of Ageless training. Good news !
I also think I have lost fat in that area and that's the reason why it is prominent.

What is weird, is that my skin is much more lax on the right side where is the pouch.. so I guess there was an imbalance at the very beginning in my face. I hope training can balance that too.

I'm trying to eat lots of healthy fat and proteins to get back on track and get that fat back Smile
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Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:11 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, I'm almost 57yrs and want to start doing facial exercises regularly. (Hopefully I'll be disciplined enough to be consistent.) I was just wondering if it's possible to mix two programmes, for example Tom Hagerty's 'Shape Your Face' and 'Ageless If You Dare',.. or 'Ageless If You Dare' with with Peta Prior's 'Facerobics'. I'm new to this forum and I hope this is the right thread to ask this question in. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Catherine.
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Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:46 am      Reply with quote
Hi Catherine

Good on you for starting now. I did so in my 50ís and have never looked back.

Starting out, its usually advised to stick with one program for a few months Ė till you are relaly familiar with it. Each program activates muscles differently. Some of the exercises at first glance look identical but its not till you have done them for a while you can see differences.

I know Peta is very much against combining programs, so its probably not a good idea to do so with that, as it is a complete program in and of its own right. However I donít think doing Tomís program alongside Ageless would cause any harm as Tomís is only 5 exercises and so I suspect that it would go well with Ageless (but just my personal opinion Ė Iím not qualified to tell you which is best to combine or had any official training other than what I have done myself).
Tessie
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Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:00 am      Reply with quote
Hi Theresa, thank you so much for your prompt and very encouraging reply. And great advice that I should stick to just one program starting out. It's makes sense. Tom's is wonderfully easy to do indeed, and looking at him, the exercises are very effective so I will start with his program, and in a few months as I progress and get familiar with my muscles then I'll see about adding another. Thanks again! Very Happy
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Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:51 am      Reply with quote
Hi Catherine

Well thats just the general consensus (and I must confess that when I started out I didn't follow that advice) - but each to their own. There is good reason for it, but I'm just weak willed and want everything.

Having said that, I think everyone approaches a time when they feel ready to incorporate other exercises/programs. For myself, I rarely do any program in its entirety and do the best bits I've found from a variety of programs.

I think thats really good to know upfront, that you can do it after a while. A lot of people would have you believe that you just have to do their program and only their program forever, which I personally have found is incorrect for me. I'm not in my 70's and very happy with my results.
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Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:08 am      Reply with quote
Good for you being happy with your face now
Theresa. I'm there where you were, wanting to have it all, and fast! I checked out so many of the programs and of course I want to look like the 'after' photos now, asap. I even bought most of the programs with the intention of mixing programs from the start. Oh dear! But this great forum and expert advice from experienced people like yourself, has guided me in the right direction, to do just one program first and give it a decent chance. Really understand which muscles each move is working (in a particular program) and what result to expect. Which I wouldn't be able to do if I mixed programs straight from the start. Later down the line when I know what I'm doing, I can add, as you say, the best bits from other programs. Cheers! Very Happy
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Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:46 am      Reply with quote
There is nothing wrong with wanting to have it all - in fact I wish the experts would write more about that and why its not a good idea to help us all out moreso. But alas they don't and they try to scoop it under the carpet.

Yes I mixed programs early on, and didn't do any in its entirety and regretted it. It took me a while and then one trainer suggested stopping and resting and then going back into it and using just her program for a extended period, and I have to say it did work. It was hard, but I did learn about my muscles and get good at targetting them, which took time. However, I know I had one to ones with Eva, and that helped me too as if I had been doing it on my own, I doubt I would have got such good results, but then after a while its just like body exercise in that you know your body and what it can do and when its in shape and not in shape etc and you take care and exercise to cater for that. Nothing wrong, but it takes time to learn.
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