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Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:23 pm  |
I have been told that the more times you do it, the less you have to because your muscles get weaker in that area. I was considering doing my crows feet, but I can't afford to do it 4x per year forever. Anyone actually experience the more times you've gone, the less you have to go later effect?
thanks  |
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36 yrs old. Jewish/Italian Combo skin. Tans easily. Native Floridian. New to a skin care regime. Sad about lines under eyes, crows feet and horizontal forehead lines! |
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Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:36 pm |
Interesting. By the way I think some people do it only 2 times a year. It may be better than nothing if that is what you can afford. Your theory makes sense. I dont have botox, but i wonder if people who have it, and then get chemical peels or use Retin A to boost collagen or collagen boosting laser treatments etc, could actually have their wrinkles completely go away after a few years of botox. Then maybe you could stop botox for a few years, until the expressions cause more wrinkles down the road? Makes sense to me!  |
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Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:20 pm |
| We can hope. That is what they have told me though. I did it once, and it only lasted for a few months, but maybe if I keep doing it, my muscles will get used to not making that expression. I wish i could put eye makeup on without raising my brows. I start the day with faint horizontal lines on my head only to put makeup on and have them become more distinct! UGH! |
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36 yrs old. Jewish/Italian Combo skin. Tans easily. Native Floridian. New to a skin care regime. Sad about lines under eyes, crows feet and horizontal forehead lines! |
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Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:11 pm |
Yes, that is my experience. I've been using Botox for three years.
First time
Three months later
Three months later
Three months later
Six months later
Six months later
Six months later - the treatment I got last week.
My most recent treatment didn't "take" nearly as well as others - I can still frown.
When I went in, I did the preliminary sample scowl and it was as if I'd never had Botox - everything was gone.
In three months, I'll have another treatment and start building up again.
Before I got Botox, I had deep, crabby ll lines. I don't have those anymore. The creases I had when all the Botox was gone were mere shadows of their former selves, so I think that I did the right thing. |
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Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:08 pm |
| rcascone wrote: |
I have been told that the more times you do it, the less you have to because your muscles get weaker in that area. I was considering doing my crows feet, but I can't afford to do it 4x per year forever. Anyone actually experience the more times you've gone, the less you have to go later effect?
thanks |
It did not work that way for me at all, unfortunately...I used it for 2.5 years and was injected every 3-4 months.
But I tend to be more resistant to Botox than most people, so YMMV. For comparsion's sake, it took 80+ units (at $12 each) to do my forehead, my 11's, and around my eyes. And *poof* it was 100% gone in 3 months, and my wrinkles looked identical to what they were before the Botox. 
Calculate that up at every 3-4 months ($960 x 4 = $3,840/yr), and you can see why I have turned to dermarolling and facial exercise! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:45 am |
| Didn't work that way for me either, infact quite the opposite. When I first started getting botox on my crowsfeet 11 years ago I couldn't screw up the sides of my eyes when I smiled at all. It was fantastic, and it lasted 6 months. Now I get it done every 3 months and I can still scrunch the muscles at the sides of my eyes when I smile. I'd say I get a 50% reduction in the scrunch. So far it's been enough to stop me having permanent lines at the sides of my eyes, but I want to not scrunch at all. Not sure what to do about it now, and really want them to invent another toxin that works better on me. And I know I'm not the only one with this problem too. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:54 am |
Here's my story -
First time - three months
Second time - three months
Third time - four+ months
Fourth time - four+ months
Fifth time - six months
It did get progressively better in that the frown lines would go away and it seemed to last longer and stronger.
The last time I waited six months and of course they were coming back but I still think they would've been way worse if not for my previous tx.
I've had 1/2 CC (I think that's what they told me) each time (pay around $160 a visit). This last time I still seem to be able to frown whereas before I could not. Went to a different Doc though so maybe that has something to do with it. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:58 am |
I've been told the muscle lose their strength over time from lack of use and somewhat atrophy. It made sense to me and in a sense that is what I observed.
For me it's nice to not see those angry looking lines. I don't mind wrinkles but not when they make you look like a meanie 
Good skin care and Facial Exercises definitely have been helping also. Gotta get that dermaroller! |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:51 am |
| sister sweets wrote: |
I've been told the muscle lose their strength over time from lack of use and somewhat atrophy. It made sense to me and in a sense that is what I observed.
For me it's nice to not see those angry looking lines. I don't mind wrinkles but not when they make you look like a meanie
Good skin care and Facial Exercises definitely have been helping also. Gotta get that dermaroller! |
Is the dermaroller just for puncturing the skin to allow the actives to sink in deeper? Can you do it on your crow's feet? Sounds painful from what I've read  Thanks for all of your input! |
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36 yrs old. Jewish/Italian Combo skin. Tans easily. Native Floridian. New to a skin care regime. Sad about lines under eyes, crows feet and horizontal forehead lines! |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:01 am |
I found this article from La Jolla Cosmetic Surgery very interesting and could perhaps explain the variation in response to Botox:
Unfortunately, Botox received from one cosmetic procedure provider may not be exactly what you get at another. Even though Botox (botulinum toxin type A) is supplied to all doctors and facilities in a manufacturer's vial containing 100 units of vacuum-dried neurotoxin complex, in order to be able to inject these active units of Botox, a physician must add a saline solution to get it in "liquid form."
There are 100 units of Botox in every vial, and the more saline that is added to the vial, the less active units that will be present in each syringe. You should be aware that some may refer to this as the dilution process, but it is actually called "reconstitution." So while each healthcare professional gets the same Botox product from the manufacturer, when it's reconstituted for injection, strength and efficacy will differ depending on the amount of saline added. This brings to mind a number of questions for you to ask yourself before deciding on Botox injections.
With this in mind, you should be cautious when you see Botox offered at bargain prices. Everyone pays the same price to the vendor (Allergan) - so how can prices to patients vary so much? It doesn't seem reasonable, does it? That's because it isn't, if manufacturer's recommended reconstitution guidelines are followed. Botox at a "bargain" price almost always means it has been diluted far beyond what's recommended (or effective).
A patient may assume that he or she is getting a "good dose" of Botox because the physician is injecting a large amount - but don't confuse units of saline with units of actual Botox. Physicians who add more saline to the Botox vial than is suggested by the manufacturer, or by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS), are administering a less effective injection of Botox - so you should always ask, "What is your reconstitution ratio?"
Also, some facilities quote a price based on the area of injection. You need to look further into this vague statement. As well as asking about the reconstitution ratio, you also need to ask a second important question, "How many units do you inject in that area?"
And, that begs the next question -- what is their definition of an "area". For instance, a provider may advertise "$99 per area", but if the crow's feet area is broken up into two areas, when in most practices it is considered one area, you're not getting any bargain. Look, instead, for a dermatologist or plastic surgeon that charges for Botox "by the unit" so you only pay for the exact number of units you receive. Be sure that he or she follows ASPS guidelines on reconstitution, as well.
If you're considering Botox, you want to be as educated as possible and do plenty of research before going ahead with the injections. Being the well-informed consumer of these products means being aware of exactly what is being used in your cosmetic treatment, whether the person administering your cosmetic treatment is qualified, and last, but not least, if you are even a candidate for Botox injectables. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:18 am |
| Absolutely for me. We did had some posts on this subject a while back and quite a few people had similar results. For me it is my "11's" or glabellar area and it makes the botox last longer each time. Now you do have to have a skilled injector who injects it in the same area every time, similar unit amounts and have it be fresh in order to really give it a fair test of how long in between each time. Mine lasts up to a year if I am careful with the baby Q around it. |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:06 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
Here's my story -
First time - three months
Second time - three months
Third time - four+ months
Fourth time - four+ months
Fifth time - six months
It did get progressively better in that the frown lines would go away and it seemed to last longer and stronger.
The last time I waited six months and of course they were coming back but I still think they would've been way worse if not for my previous tx.
I've had 1/2 CC (I think that's what they told me) each time (pay around $160 a visit). This last time I still seem to be able to frown whereas before I could not. Went to a different Doc though so maybe that has something to do with it. |
The price you pay is really cheap. I have never heard of botox at that price before. Usually its at least $300 per area, where I live anyway. I would be kind of suspicious if they are diluting it too much  |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:19 pm |
| Determined wrote: |
I found this article from La Jolla Cosmetic Surgery very interesting and could perhaps explain the variation in response to Botox:
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The dilution point is very important, along with the skill of the injector. I ended up calling Botox directly to discuss recommended dilution rates, and they also recommended that I see someone that was a National Botox Educator (list is available on their website).
After having mine done at 4 different places over 2.5 years, I found that:
- Injector skills definitely do vary
- Injectors have different knowledge of "tricks"...my PS is a National Botox Educator and is a Platinum Level Botox reseller (meaning that he sells a TON of Botox)...yet he did not know that you can inject right above your upper lip to create more fullness.
- Some places do dilute more than recommended (only 1 out of the 4 would not tell me their dilution ratio, which meant that they were hiding something, and it DID wear off faster there)
- Too little dilution can be just as bad as too much...it requires extreme control and injection in exactly the right spot, or you will get some very bad drooping
- Some people (like me) are still resistant to Botox, even when you are using the best injector and the appropriate dilution ratio |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:28 pm |
| Do you know if it is possible for botox to help with those laugh lines between the nose and mouth, on either side? My dermatologist said he doesnt use botox there, he uses fillers. I dont want fillers yet at this stage... Im curious if you have heard anything about this! Thx |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:37 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Do you know if it is possible for botox to help with those laugh lines between the nose and mouth, on either side? My dermatologist said he doesnt use botox there, he uses fillers. I dont want fillers yet at this stage... Im curious if you have heard anything about this! Thx |
Botox is not appropriate there, but facial exercise can help if you don't want to go the filler route.
BTW, those are called your nasolabial folds. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:57 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| sister sweets wrote: |
Here's my story -
First time - three months
Second time - three months
Third time - four+ months
Fourth time - four+ months
Fifth time - six months
It did get progressively better in that the frown lines would go away and it seemed to last longer and stronger.
The last time I waited six months and of course they were coming back but I still think they would've been way worse if not for my previous tx.
I've had 1/2 CC (I think that's what they told me) each time (pay around $160 a visit). This last time I still seem to be able to frown whereas before I could not. Went to a different Doc though so maybe that has something to do with it. |
The price you pay is really cheap. I have never heard of botox at that price before. Usually its at least $300 per area, where I live anyway. I would be kind of suspicious if they are diluting it too much |
Maybe so - but I've had great results and long lasting.. So I'm glad to pay less and still get the results I'm looking for...  This last time (the new doc) and the time that I think they may have over-diluted he charged me 133.00 (having a special).... |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:49 pm |
| Have you ever heard of a group of people having botox and it being cheaper? |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:42 pm |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| Have you ever heard of a group of people having botox and it being cheaper? |
Sherry...where have you been???
There are definitely Botox parties, but from what I understand, over dilution and unskilled injectors are very common. This may be a situation where you get what you pay for. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:44 pm |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| Have you ever heard of a group of people having botox and it being cheaper? |
They call them 'Botox Parties' in Palm Beach Florida where I live, and many people have them in their house..
Probably the more people that attend, the better the price would be. |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:17 pm |
| I live in northern Virginia. How come I never get invited? I have botox every 3 months. I am now starting use my vacuum thingy. It is working with my lines around the lips, however I still have the 11 even with doing botox. do you think it the vac * spam * will work on my 11's? I did the dermaroller, and all I did was peal from it. |
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:19 pm |
| someone from Northern VA must be doing the Botox party. I could do it. I have no idea how to get it started. Any ideas. |
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Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:35 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Do you know if it is possible for botox to help with those laugh lines between the nose and mouth, on either side? My dermatologist said he doesnt use botox there, he uses fillers. I dont want fillers yet at this stage... Im curious if you have heard anything about this! Thx |
My doctor says the same. She does not use botox for the nasolabial folds. The only area she would inject around the mouth is above the upper lip for the vertical lines that appear there. |
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Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:40 pm |
| Cam anyone recommend a Botox injector she is happy with in terms of both results and price. Location: Ottawa (Ontario, Canada). My doctor charges CAN $375 per area and I find it expensive. |
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Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:07 pm |
| I have been looking into this and there are some doctors in LA who do botox in the nasolabial areas but it requires more experience and is more risky, which is why doctors tend to avoid it. But apparantly there ARE some who do it. Hard to find though so ill wait until more doctors have it down to a science. |
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