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Hyaluronic Acid---good or bad?

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yeahyeah
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Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:01 am      Reply with quote
I'm now trialing a HA serum, as I read how HA can plump up the skin and is excellent for dry, dehydrated skin. And my skin is in NEED of moisture! Lots of products/brands are promoting HA, so it must be good right Confused
However, I've read that HA can damage the skin Question I cant remember if its on this forum or somewhere else, and I cant seem to find that thread here.
Can anyone shed some light on this issue?

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Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:21 am      Reply with quote
I never heard that about HA. I have been using an HA serum for a couple of years now. After I put on my Vit. C Serum, I follow with the HA Serum. It is my only moisturizer other than a sunscreen on top of it. I think my skin looks more dewey than it ever has.

What kind of harmful effects did you hear about it?

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Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:48 am      Reply with quote
Yeahyeah, I've had to research hyaluronic acid for a few articles in the past five years and have never read anythng of this nature. There is, however, a debate as to whether ingested HA in capsules can contribute towards cancer development. I believe this was spinning around the Internet for a while so could it be this that you recall?

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Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:33 am      Reply with quote
I recall that there was a thread about someone's skin getting drier than before using HA serum, and even though HA is a good water binding agent, high levels of HA would counteract this Confused . I think that was the gist of the thread, but I cant be certain.

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Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:28 pm      Reply with quote
Goodness, that doesn't sound much like HA. I use mine under a moisturiser though...I use it only with the BQ, and then apply something very active and moistening afterwards.

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Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:03 am      Reply with quote
I vaguely remember seeing something negative about HA on the Forum but can't find the thread. However, here's something on the Skin Biology Forum:

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8890018252/m/7300014564
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Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:17 am      Reply with quote
What kind of harmful effects did you hear about it?
SeanySeanUK
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Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:40 am      Reply with quote
I too have never heard it damages skin. I know its often touted as being able to hold 100 times its weight in water.... and so it wets the skin layer, which is what I often hear people dislike (usually they argue if the top layer is wet, its easier to damage and is much more open to bacteria).
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Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:59 am      Reply with quote
SeanySeanUK wrote:
I too have never heard it damages skin. I know its often touted as being able to hold 100 times its weight in water.... and so it wets the skin layer, which is what I often hear people dislike (usually they argue if the top layer is wet, its easier to damage and is much more open to bacteria).


Dr. Pickhart, in the link I posted above, claims that "it feels smooth and sensuous but will slowly wets the skin's outer protective proteins and damages the skin barrier. It does not help skin health." And, "The problem with wetting the skin is that bacteria and viruses enter the wet skin barrier".

However, at this point, I'm definitely giving it the benefit of the doubt and will continue to use it.
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Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:33 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for the link keliu. If you ever find that thread about the negative effects of HA, please let me know Smile

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:42 am      Reply with quote
Quote:
Hi Aiva
Can you tell me more about why pure HA is like that? You can reply on this thread also: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=31837
Thanks


Hi yeahyeah,
I remember several posts here on EDS where people were talking about HA serum drying out their skin. The reason was that HA, able to hold 100 times its weight in water, takes that water from the skin if it does not have smth else to take the water from.
So people were not liking pure HA serum, while a moisturizer containing HA can be very beneficial, as here HA takes the water from the moisturizer and delivers it to the skin.

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yeahyeah
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:15 pm      Reply with quote
Aiva wrote:
Hi yeahyeah,
I remember several posts here on EDS where people were talking about HA serum drying out their skin. The reason was that HA, able to hold 100 times its weight in water, takes that water from the skin if it does not have smth else to take the water from.
So people were not liking pure HA serum, while a moisturizer containing HA can be very beneficial, as here HA takes the water from the moisturizer and delivers it to the skin.


Hi Aiva- yeah I read something like that on EDS too, but I just cant find it using the search function or using google to search EDS.
I am still slightly confused...so pure HA serum will take water from your own skin if it doesnt have enough water??? How can we "add" more water to our skin then- apply the serum on damp skin?

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:50 pm      Reply with quote
yeahyeah wrote:
Aiva wrote:
Hi yeahyeah,
I remember several posts here on EDS where people were talking about HA serum drying out their skin. The reason was that HA, able to hold 100 times its weight in water, takes that water from the skin if it does not have smth else to take the water from.
So people were not liking pure HA serum, while a moisturizer containing HA can be very beneficial, as here HA takes the water from the moisturizer and delivers it to the skin.


Hi Aiva- yeah I read something like that on EDS too, but I just cant find it using the search function or using google to search EDS.
I am still slightly confused...so pure HA serum will take water from your own skin if it doesnt have enough water??? How can we "add" more water to our skin then- apply the serum on damp skin?


I would suggest either to use a moisturizer containing HA, or to use a moisturizer on top of your HA serum.
it will be interesting what other people think of it Question

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:07 pm      Reply with quote
yes,Keliu I read that on the Skin Bio forum also and now I use less and make sure I apply moisturizer with it. Last thing we need is to have it suck the moisture out of our skin.
yeahyeah
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:11 pm      Reply with quote
I was replying in another thread about Retinoids and Kassy posted a website smartskincare.com. There, I found an article about HA: http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/hyaluronic-acid.html
Quote:
However, there is a controversy whether concentrated HA formulas should be used as a moisturizer in dry climate. When air humidity is very low, HA may preferentially pull water from the skin rather than from the air, thus producing the opposite effect.

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:26 pm      Reply with quote
yeahyeah wrote:
I was replying in another thread about Retinoids and Kassy posted a website smartskincare.com. There, I found an article about HA: http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/hyaluronic-acid.html
Quote:
However, there is a controversy whether concentrated HA formulas should be used as a moisturizer in dry climate. When air humidity is very low, HA may preferentially pull water from the skin rather than from the air, thus producing the opposite effect.


yes, that`s it.
therefore I wouldn`t use a pure HA serum.

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Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:39 pm      Reply with quote
yeahyeah wrote:
I'm now trialing a HA serum, as I read how HA can plump up the skin and is excellent for dry, dehydrated skin. And my skin is in NEED of moisture! Lots of products/brands are promoting HA, so it must be good right Confused
However, I've read that HA can damage the skin Question I cant remember if its on this forum or somewhere else, and I cant seem to find that thread here.
Can anyone shed some light on this issue?


My dermatologist told me that HA was great for adding moisture to my skin IF the environment was more humid than my skin -- he said he would NOT have me use any HA serums IF I lived in an arid, dry desert area because under that environment, the HA would pull moisture from my skin. I use pure HA in the summer and I ADD pure HA to my moisturizers, body lotions, and hair conditioners the rest of the year. HTH
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:08 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks Merrylass, so pure HA serum shouldnt be used alone but can be added to a moisturiser so it wouldnt pull moisture from the skin?

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Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:26 pm      Reply with quote
I think it would be best to use HA when it is part of a balanced cream or lotion. I found when I used it too close to under my eyes that area became all puffy. I wonder if there are better ways to moisturize, like using a barrier type of lotion to seal the moisture in.
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Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:47 am      Reply with quote
This is a great thread and you guys are dancing all around the correct answer for this topic!

First of all, Hyaluronic Acid is good to use in skin care products and it is an excellent moisturizer with a stellar safety record.

It is the WAY that you use the Hyaluronic Acid that really makes the difference. It should be used in a properly formulated cream or lotion. This forum has pointed out that some creams and lotions can actually be drying to the skin because of the use of incorrect emollients and synthetic emulsifiers to hold the oils and water together. A properly formulated cream or lotion must take into consideration the "sebum" of your skin. This is the protective oils, esters, fats, cholesterol, and squalene that make up skin oils. You must make a cream or lotion to "complement" this protective sebum, not disrupt it.

Too much Hyaluronic Acid, or straight Hyaluronic acid can and will draw the water right out of your skin. This is true of glycerin as well. These materials are "humectants" which draw moisture to themselves. This is especially true of dry, low humidity climates where there is no water in the atmosphere. The water has to come from somewhere and your skin will be the source.

That's why the Hyaluronic Acid should be in a cream or lotion that contains 1)water 2)the proper emollient oils and esters 3)natural emulsifiers similar to the skin's sebum 4)occlusive materials, naturally derived that keeps moisture trapped at the skin's surface.

Proper emollient oils are macadamia, olive, and meadowfoam, and proper esters are jojoba. The natural emulsifiers can be made from olive or jojoba derivatives. The very best natural occlusive material is jojoba esters. Jojoba Esters are even better than the industry standard of petrolatum (a petroleum biproduct), and jojoba esters an non-pore clogging.

Add glycerin and Hyaluronic acid to the above combination of materials and you will have the absolute best moisturizing lotion available that will absolutely NOT dry out the skin in any climate or temperature.

But, all of this just goes to show you that cosmetic chemistry is a very precise science, and "combinations" must be put together to achieve the proper goal. Simple "hit and miss" combinations of one or two ingredients can actually be worse for the skin, and lotions designed with this "hit and miss" style are just poor chemistry designed to make a buck in most cases.

Hope this helps,

John

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Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:29 pm      Reply with quote
According to Professor in Dermatology, Dr Leslie Baumann MD, hyaluronic acid cannot penetrate the skin, so that it won't be effective in reducing wrinkles.

It might however be an effective moisturizer, but Dr Baumann also warns against using it in very dry climates as it can pull moisture out of the deep layers of your skin (as mentioned by others on this thread).

Quote:

4. Hyaluronic acid is one of the building blocks of your dermis, and slowing its deterioration is one of the goals of wrinkle prevention. But there is no way to replenish it short of injecting a dermal filler (like Perlane and Restylane) into your dermis. Hyaluronic acid supplements are broken down in the stomach, and I don't believe that they are effective. As far as topical products are concerned, hyaluronic acid can be an effective moisturizer - but again, topical hyaluronic acid cannot penetrate your skin to reduce wrinkles. If you're using a moisturizer with hyaluronic acid, be careful. In very dry climates this water-binding ingredient can't draw moisture from the environment, so it may actually start to pull moisture out of the deeper layers of your skin.


http://health.yahoo.com/experts/skintype/10552/what-is-your-skin-iq/

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Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:39 pm      Reply with quote
I have used a HA "moisture-lock serum" in the past and really loved the results. The concentration of HA in the serum was 25%. I loved the way it smoothed my skin as well as keep the moisture level up. I think the "moisture-lock" wording meant that it was preventing moisture from moving out of the deep skin layers, or something to that effect. Anyways, the results were great for me. Like John said above, I think it is important to use a properly formulated product. I am no expert by any means, and I am not a DIY person, but I do spend time researching products on the internet (and reading/participating in forums like this one).

I am not using an HA serum any longer, since my moisturizing routine now includes a matrixyl serum which also has HA as a main ingredient. So I get the benefits of matrixyl and HA at the same time.

Regarding the use of HA in a dry climate, I have read about those same concerns (i.e. HA might pull moisture from your skin instead of from the dry air around you). The articles I have read do not make a clear case in my view. (Most of them just seem to be repeating the same story; one of the pitfalls of getting info from the internet). I think it is wrong to simply assume that if the relative humidity of the air is less than the relative humidity of your skin then water will be pulled from your skin by the surface HA. If my college chemistry knowledge is still valid, they need to consider other factors such as osmotic pressure, absolute humidity, temperature, the HA in your skin cells, the barrier between surface skin & deep skin, etc, etc. In other words, it is much more complicated than those simple articles imply.

Until some smart scientist explains it all to me, I am sticking with my personal experience. I heart HA! Smile
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:31 pm      Reply with quote
NOTCH wrote:
This is a great thread and you guys are dancing all around the correct answer for this topic!

First of all, Hyaluronic Acid is good to use in skin care products and it is an excellent moisturizer with a stellar safety record.

It is the WAY that you use the Hyaluronic Acid that really makes the difference. It should be used in a properly formulated cream or lotion. This forum has pointed out that some creams and lotions can actually be drying to the skin because of the use of incorrect emollients and synthetic emulsifiers to hold the oils and water together. A properly formulated cream or lotion must take into consideration the "sebum" of your skin. This is the protective oils, esters, fats, cholesterol, and squalene that make up skin oils. You must make a cream or lotion to "complement" this protective sebum, not disrupt it.

Too much Hyaluronic Acid, or straight Hyaluronic acid can and will draw the water right out of your skin. This is true of glycerin as well. These materials are "humectants" which draw moisture to themselves. This is especially true of dry, low humidity climates where there is no water in the atmosphere. The water has to come from somewhere and your skin will be the source.

That's why the Hyaluronic Acid should be in a cream or lotion that contains 1)water 2)the proper emollient oils and esters 3)natural emulsifiers similar to the skin's sebum 4)occlusive materials, naturally derived that keeps moisture trapped at the skin's surface.

Proper emollient oils are macadamia, olive, and meadowfoam, and proper esters are jojoba. The natural emulsifiers can be made from olive or jojoba derivatives. The very best natural occlusive material is jojoba esters. Jojoba Esters are even better than the industry standard of petrolatum (a petroleum biproduct), and jojoba esters an non-pore clogging.

Add glycerin and Hyaluronic acid to the above combination of materials and you will have the absolute best moisturizing lotion available that will absolutely NOT dry out the skin in any climate or temperature.

But, all of this just goes to show you that cosmetic chemistry is a very precise science, and "combinations" must be put together to achieve the proper goal. Simple "hit and miss" combinations of one or two ingredients can actually be worse for the skin, and lotions designed with this "hit and miss" style are just poor chemistry designed to make a buck in most cases.

Hope this helps,

John


Hi John, I hope you are still selling products on your page. I was having issues with the registering process, being that I live in Canada
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:48 pm      Reply with quote
Hyaluronic acid itself has very great benefits to the body since it acts as a lubricant for your joints and other tissues. The problem with purchasing a product/cream containing hyaluronic acid is that the molecular structure is much too large to penetrate through the skin. So when you apply a product containing hyaluronic acid, it is basically lying on top of the skin and in some cases can draw moisture from within which does the reverse of its intended use.

This is why fillers, which are composed of hyaluronic acid, have to be injected into the skin since that is the only way it is beneficial.

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Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:51 pm      Reply with quote
Pretty_Simple wrote:
Hyaluronic acid itself has very great benefits to the body since it acts as a lubricant for your joints and other tissues. The problem with purchasing a product/cream containing hyaluronic acid is that the molecular structure is much too large to penetrate through the skin. So when you apply a product containing hyaluronic acid, it is basically lying on top of the skin and in some cases can draw moisture from within which does the reverse of its intended use.

This is why fillers, which are composed of hyaluronic acid, have to be injected into the skin since that is the only way it is beneficial.


Pretty_Simple, does this mean that it would work well with a Derma Roller?
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