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Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:11 pm  |
Last week I went to CVS. A gal was there at a skincare counter offering tester. She noticed some foaming cleanser in my basket, and promptly told me to avoid it. She said it's really bad for skin, and it will strip out natural oil. She recommended cream cleanser instead.
Does anyone agree with her recommendation? |
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:35 pm |
i thought it would be even more clean to wash face with foam?
like normal facial wash, we make it to foam before apply on our face so the bubbles are able to clean the pores? |
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:02 pm |
| You want to avoid forming cleaners because they usually contain sulfates. Sulfates will strip the skin barrier. |
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Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:39 pm |
| Sodium laureth sulphate is the foaming agent used in most drugstore foaming cleansers. It can be comedogenic (cause pimples) as well as skin rashes and drying out the skin in some people. It is not necessary to have bubbles to cleanse the skin. Oil cleansers can also do the job as can a microfiber cloth. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:19 am |
| icic.. i watch taiwan fashion show on skincare which say we need to make our cleansers into foams and use the bubbles to cleanse the skin. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:49 am |
| I think SLS-based cleansers are the root of many ladies' skin problems. And after eliminating the SLS cleanser, if you still get pimples on your chin, it might be your toothpaste that contains SLS. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:58 am |
| Not IMO, I dont think foaming cleanser are bad. As long as you get a cleanser that suits your skin then its fine. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:10 am |
Most cleansers that have "surfactants" and certain "emulsifiers" will be harsh on the skin. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Sodium Laureth Sulfate, among others are harsh on the skin. Why? Because they work as intended!! They are designed to mix with dirt and oils, attach to those oils, and then use water to help strip the oils away. So yes, they do clean your skin, but they also strip away the natural sebum that your skin produces to keep your skin moist, soft and supple. Your fatty acids are stripped away, your wax esters are stripped away, the squalene, cholesterols, and ceramides can also be stripped away. Your skin becomes as dry and brittle as it can be.
Now, this can be bad, IF....you do not add a moisturizer of some type AFTER washing yourself clean. But, don't use another cream or lotion that contains more harsh emulsifiers and emollients that do not add the correct fatty acids or wax esters back to the skin. Read your labels carefully and choose the best moisturizing lotion to add to your skin after cleansing.
Let me make one rumor go away really quick. It is an absolute MYTH that "foaming" means "cleaning". This is NOT true. Foaming does NOTHING for cleaning except maybe a small amount by "lifting" dirt so that it can be rinsed away. It is the surfactants such as cocamidopropyl betaine that creates foaming. And why do cosmetic chemists do this? Because consumer perception is that "foaming" means cleaning! But, the real cleansing is coming from the surfactants such as sodium lauryl sulfate and sodium laureth sulfate, and many others, that product little to no foam.
A cream cleanser, made with added emollients (the right ones!) is probably a better way to cleanse delicate skin such as the face.
John |
_________________
President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:01 am |
| Foaming cleanser makes my skin feel squeaky clean. Cream cleanser makes it feel like something is left behind. How do you get that squeaky clean feeling with cream cleanser? |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:43 am |
ruk1 it is very good that you brought up the concept of "squeaky clean"! Do you know why your skin feels squeaky clean after using foaming cleasers, or those with surfactants? It is because not only is all the dirt and oils that made your skin dirty gone, but all your natural sebum has been stripped away too! At this point, your skin has been damaged.
In clinical trials, when a company wants to prove that their cream or lotion is a good moisturizer, or good for damaged skin, the trial almost always starts like this:
1) We don't look for volunteers with already damaged skin. Their skin is "uncontrolled" meaning we don't know how it has been damaged.
2) We get volunteers with naturally healthy skin, and we place Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in tiny circular areas on the skin and then cover it with a patch. It remains that way for 1 day. When the person comes back the patch is removed and ....viola!! Damaged skin!! The circular area is usually slightly red and irritated.
3) The cream or lotion is then placed on the damaged circular area and watched to see if it is soothed.
The Sodium Lauryl Sulfate that is in foaming cleansers is actually used to damage skin in clinical trials!!
You DO NOT WANT "squeaky clean" skin! What you NEED is skin that feels like something is left behind. That "something" is usually the correct emollients and wax esters necessary to keep the skin moist, soft and supple. You skin will not only be clean, but it will not be damaged.
The mind-set of the great majority of consumers is that you need "foaming cleansers" to get clean, and the skin must be "squeaky clean" to be clean. Nothing could be worse for your skin. You need to protect the natural sebum. If it is disrupted, you need to put back the correct fatty acids, wax esters, squalene, cholesterol, ceramides and all the things that keep healthy skin function active.
Listen, "foaming cleansers" are easy to make. They use abundant amounts of CHEAP raw materials. And, the buying public "thinks" that they are what make them clean. Now what company wouldn't want to force that down your throat? It is easy for them to make, it is cheap to make so they make a big profit, and you believe it works. It's money in the bank for them....and horribly dry and damaged skin for you. But, they don't care, because you keep buying it. And, they also make the creams and lotions that attempt to rectify dry skin. It's a vicious $$$$$$ making cycle for them, and they love it. It's the same vicious cycle as the clinical trial I mentioned above! Now, why would you want to be a money paying slave guinnea pig to the big cosmetic houses who put out this stuff?
John |
_________________
President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:44 pm |
Oh wow, thanks NOTCH. Very good information here. I appreciate your taking the time to educate us.
How do we know which cream cleanser is the right one then if you cannot base it on that squeaky clean feeling? |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:49 pm |
| Thanks for the tutorial on cleansers, John. I can't use anything foaming. Even for my body or hair. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:59 pm |
mlrox, before you get too deep into cream cleansers, don't forget regular bar soaps. There are some out there that do a good job at cleansing, but are not very stripping. For instance, Dove Bar is still a good product, and a good value. I personally use a glycerin based bar soap that also contains jojoba, some olive and some other natural ingredients. You will notice that they do not "foam" very much. But remember, foaming does not neccesarily mean cleaning. There are a lot of good bar soap makers out there that produce good cleansing products that can also be gentle to the skin.
John |
_________________
President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:26 pm |
| The cleaning ability of foaming cleaner is more strong than cleaning milk. If your skin is dry or allergic,it's better to use cleaning milk. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:28 pm |
| Yiying wrote: |
| The cleaning ability of foaming cleaner is more strong than cleaning milk. If your skin is dry or allergic,it's better to use cleaning milk. |
I think NOTCH is saying it's not good to use foaming cleanser, period, even if your skin is normal because it can damage skin. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:30 pm |
| NOTCH wrote: |
mlrox, before you get too deep into cream cleansers, don't forget regular bar soaps. There are some out there that do a good job at cleansing, but are not very stripping. For instance, Dove Bar is still a good product, and a good value. I personally use a glycerin based bar soap that also contains jojoba, some olive and some other natural ingredients. You will notice that they do not "foam" very much. But remember, foaming does not neccesarily mean cleaning. There are a lot of good bar soap makers out there that produce good cleansing products that can also be gentle to the skin.
John |
Several dermatologists have recommended dove bar soap to me. It gets worn out so quickly as it is very soft, and seems to melt away in a shower. |
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Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:42 pm |
| m1rox wrote: |
| I think SLS-based cleansers are the root of many ladies' skin problems. And after eliminating the SLS cleanser, if you still get pimples on your chin, it might be your toothpaste that contains SLS. |
Unfortunately, most of cleansers sold on market are not formulated with only SLS or SLES, and actually, SLS is good foaming and cleaning agent. Now, most SLS-containing cleanser, such as cetaphil always combine other different surfactants, such as anionic surfaceactive agent or amphoteric surfactant to create mild cleanser with nice cleansing effect.
It's very hard to find the SLS-based cleanser now in the market at all.
And most toothpastes also employ surfactants in same way. |
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Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:44 am |
| I think non-foaming cleanser is not as strong as foaming. It is good to use in winter, because its gentle and better for sensitive skin. After using non-forming cleanser, I feel not very dry and much moisturizer. |
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Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:31 pm |
It seems all the shampoo, cleanser, and hand soap all used Sodium Laurel Sulfate as it provides lather and foam.
But for some strange reason, my Garnier gel cleanser does not foam although Sodium Laureth Sulfate is the 2nd ingredient...  Also, it contains Green Tea, Vit. E, and grape extract, does that help with anything to counteract the SLS? |
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Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:53 pm |
Oh wow this is such an interesting issue to know. I accept that I'm one of those customers who falls into the foaming = cleansing trap by the cosmetics corp.
Because I love the foamy feeling, I always use cleansers from Shiseido because all of them do make a lot of bubbles! But unfortunately, as my skin is becoming drier and drier, I felt my skin was so dry and tight after I wash my face so I'm looking for alternatives.
I guess it's time for me to look for a more gentle cleanser now  |
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Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:04 pm |
| Your description of your skin condition indicates that the SLS in your cleansers are damaging your skin barrier function. Time to switch cleansers. |
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Viking86
New Member
 
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:30 pm |
| do toners have sls? i use a foaming cleanser for guinot and i always knew that it had sls but i never bothered to change it because i moisturized quite well afterwards... |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:10 am |
| I use Lo'Occtane Foaming Brightening Cleanser and love it. It's very gentle and does not strip my VERY sensitive cleanser at all. I can really see the differnace in my skin when I use it over Purpose, which is also very gentle. |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:36 am |
| m1rox wrote: |
| I think SLS-based cleansers are the root of many ladies' skin problems. And after eliminating the SLS cleanser, if you still get pimples on your chin, it might be your toothpaste that contains SLS. |
It is fully documented with journal references and justified by Health Canada that there is nothing wrong with SLS. Its true that cleansers could be the problem to some problems; its due to the formulation not the SLS ingreds.
http://www.cosmeticscop.com/skin-care-facts-sodium-lauryl-sulfate-sodium-laureth-sulfate.aspx |
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:03 am |
SusieQ, I just read that article and I agree with what it says. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS) and Sodium Lauryl Ether Sulfate ("sodium laureth sulfate, SLES) are not harmful as far as exteme health problems are concerned. In other words, these raw materials are not the cause of cancers.
But something the article states at the end is the basis for what we are talking about here. And I agree with this fully. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate is a skin irritant. It is a fantastic surface active agent (surfactant) and it will strip you skin of all dirt, oils, and emollients. In other words, it will dry your skin out with use (irritate it). That's why it is used in clinical trials to actually cause skin irritation so that other products can be trialed to see if they can reduce or eliminate the irritation.
John |
_________________
President and Chief Formulator, Never Over The Hill Cosmetics, Patend holder, Award winning cosmetic chemist, neveroverthehill.com, Age 51 and staying young forever! |
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