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Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:42 pm  |
I was in the skin care section of the bookstore yesterday. I forget the name of this book (I'm going to find out when I go back tomorrow and will update) but it was about pH balance and health, and it is written by a dermatologist. One of the most startling things in the skin care chapter was that using too many acidic products on your skin can cause aging. And it totally makes sense. She mentions in her book that in her practice, peope who overuse glycolic acid products which have an acidic pH can age faster since overuse releases collagen degrading enzymes (because of inflammation) causing aging.
She talks positively about Retin A but I think the problem arises when one uses too many acidic products all the time.
She also mentions that too much manual exfoliation may not be good-- once a week is enough, the other days you can use gently use your fingers.
It made sense to me because when I was using glycolic peels once a week or sometimes even more, my skin looked horrible. Basically I looked older last year than I do now. I just thought it was interesting and goes to show that more is not always better.
So my question is, those of you who use an acidic Vitamin C product (pH is usually around 3 or 4) daily, and an acidic retinoid (Retin-A is around 4-5) daily, have you definately seen improvements from this? (I found out that Tazorac has a pH of around 6-7 which I feel more comfortable with since it is less acidic.) I am curious to know what some of our sciency members (i know there are SEVERAL) think about pH of products as it relates to aging and inflammation. Of course, everyone's opinions are welcome!!! |
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Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:00 pm |
The book is called "Stop Aging, Start Living" by Dr. Jeannette Graf.
I hate to say it, but I don't really recommend this book. While she did talk about topicals, she focused primarily on your diet as driving any pH issues.
I felt like the only info I really gleaned was the recommendation to drink an alkalizing greens drink (she recommends GreensFirst which I already used daily) and to eat less acidic foods. Oh, and to find some fun in your life.
But yes, there are a number of us who do try to maintain a more alkaline existance...there is a thread that got moved to the lounge that started off focusing on cancer, and ended up talking about pH.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=30594&highlight=ph
As far as aging is concerned, you should also look into the impact of inflammation...both at the skin level and far deeper in your body. That was definitely an eye opener for me, and it changed my skin care activities and frequencies significantly. But that's a topic for another thread.  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:23 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
So my question is, those of you who use an acidic Vitamin C product (pH is usually around 3 or 4) daily, and an acidic retinoid (Retin-A is around 4-5) daily, have you definately seen improvements from this? (I found out that Tazorac has a pH of around 6-7 which I feel more comfortable with since it is less acidic.) I am curious to know what some of our sciency members (i know there are SEVERAL) think about pH of products as it relates to aging and inflammation. Of course, everyone's opinions are welcome!!! |
well i cannot speak for others neither myself (as I'm yet to set out my own regime). But from reading, some can tolerate using the combo and there r others who cannot. it all depends on the resilience and the thickness of your skin. these innevitably decline as part of the aging process. |
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:56 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| As far as aging is concerned, you should also look into the impact of inflammation...both at the skin level and far deeper in your body. That was definitely an eye opener for me, and it changed my skin care activities and frequencies significantly. But that's a topic for another thread. |
Definitely agree. I think this inflammation/aging issue is coming up more and more and plays a major impact on aging. |
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:22 am |
I agree with more is not always good. I am a fan of less is more.
And also, not get too much into it - we all age, that's a normal process, and eternal youth has not been invented. So, take it with dignity, and do what makes sense. Without overdoing it and losing sleep over it. I think using cheap makeup and cosmetics ages your skin faster, and makes it look horrible. I try to do bare minimum for maintenance, and using natural product, mostly of course with some exceptions. |
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:31 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| As far as aging is concerned, you should also look into the impact of inflammation...both at the skin level and far deeper in your body. That was definitely an eye opener for me, and it changed my skin care activities and frequencies significantly. But that's a topic for another thread. |
Definitely agree. I think this inflammation/aging issue is coming up more and more and plays a major impact on aging. |
I spent a couple hours googling inflammation and aging, but couldn't really find any definitive info on how to avoid it. Could someone please point me in the right direction? TIA!
Just a thought, but if inflammation causes aging, how can dermarolling or copper peptides be good? Sorry if this is a question that has been answered a thousand times, it's just tha the dermarolling thread is too long to read through! |
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:48 am |
| Quote: |
| how can dermarolling or copper peptides be good? |
Was it scientifically proven that it's good?! |
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:00 pm |
| zverenok wrote: |
| Quote: |
| how can dermarolling or copper peptides be good? |
Was it scientifically proven that it's good?! |
Perhaps I should re-phrase: how can inflammation be a bad thing when dermarolling is responsible for fixing so many problems? |
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Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:07 pm |
| fat_swan wrote: |
| zverenok wrote: |
| Quote: |
| how can dermarolling or copper peptides be good? |
Was it scientifically proven that it's good?! |
Perhaps I should re-phrase: how can inflammation be a bad thing when dermarolling is responsible for fixing so many problems? |
The key is to not roll too frequently....overdoing it results in ongoing chronic inflammation. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:50 am |
But rolling creates inflammation  |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:40 am |
| yep, it is needed to boost collagen, but as bethany said, it is the "chronic" in other words "ongoing" inflammation that becomes a problem if ur not allowing sufficient rest in between rolls. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:13 pm |
from another thread:
| bethany wrote: |
please be aware that acute inflammation that lasts for longer than 2 weeks turns into chronic inflammation and actually speeds up the rate at which you skin ages. |
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Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:18 pm |
Question for Bethany or anyone who knows,
I agree that inflammation causes aging. But what about systems like Obagi which typically causes redness for weeks to months or even just Retin A, which can cause redness and peeling as well. Do the collagen stimulating properties of these medications cancel out the collagen depletion that inflammation causes? (that would make sense to me, given all the studies that show that Obagi/retin A can significantly reduce wrinkles and other signs of aging over the course of a year. Thoughts? |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:28 pm |
this is an interesting thread...about a month ago I started looking into anti-inflammatory foods (which, if you saw another thread is why I stopped drinking coffee/diet coke and started trying to drink tea). However! I didn’t even think to consider my skin and how the products I use on it might or might not cause more inflammation.
I use 20 vit C in the am and 12% AHA soufflé at night….and my skin is much better than it was prior to doing this (I have been on this routine for a min of 2.5 yrs)
For those of you interested in learning more about anti-inflammatory diets you can look into Dr Perricone (I am not endorsing him and I do not agree 100% of what he says, just the why behind anti-inflammatory diet). Also, check out this website:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4407/2 |
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Moderately fair, dry, prone to break outs on chin, sun damage, 30s. |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:25 pm |
I agree that Perricone knows a lot about anti inflammatory dieting. It is similar to the South Beach diet, which isn't so much of a diet as a way of life. I try to eat like this- Olive oils, lean proteins, avoid sugar. It makes an amazing difference in how one looks and feels.
It's a shame about his products though. I find them very overpriced and his cleanser wreaked havoc on my sensitive skin. Had WAY too much frangrance and alcohol. My skin never looked worse than when I was using his products. Oh yeah, his vitamin C ester product made be break out and I NEVER break out. I am sure he has a few good products but overall I am not impressed. But I have watched him on PBS and he really helped me change my diet and learn about nutrition. |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:05 pm |
| There is a TON of dietary research out there on eating so that your body is NOT acidic. (which does NOT mean avoiding acidic foods... has to do with how the body converts.) Acidic bodies harbor disease...cancer etc... This is totally worth looking into... if you want a healthy, slower to age body... |
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Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:35 pm |
| yeah, it's very true that the body becomes acidic when in bad mood, sad, and just about every negative feeling or emotions. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:33 am |
This is a FABULOUS topic  I've begun hearing about the consequences of inflammation, but it's still fairly new to me.
Bethany - you said you have a lot of info, would you mind sharing, starting a whole new thread, giving us links. You seem so knowledgeable about this.
I think this is worthy of an entire thread.
Please, anyone who has info do share! |
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46, curly dk blonde hair, fair, blue eyes, very oily T-zone. HGs: Tazorac .05% gel; Avene/Bioderma s/s (very high spf AND ppd); Cellbone vit Cie 20%; Cellbone Hyperpeptides; IFP 5% bha/10% aha; Obagi Clear; 'curly girl' method (no poo, just co wash) for my 3b curls. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:48 am |
| tsjmom wrote: |
This is a FABULOUS topic I've begun hearing about the consequences of inflammation, but it's still fairly new to me.
Bethany - you said you have a lot of info, would you mind sharing, starting a whole new thread, giving us links. You seem so knowledgeable about this.
I think this is worthy of an entire thread.
Please, anyone who has info do share! |
Yes, Please share anything you have Bethany. This topic is top in my mind right now, as well!  Your knowledge would really be appreciated! |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:37 pm |
I believe that we should make a distinction between inflammation in the body (internally) and possible inflammation in the skin (externally) as a result from dermarolling, strong acids or other more or less invasive cosmetic procedures.
EXTERNAL: If a cosmetic treatment really does cause inflammation, I believe it is difficult for the average woman/man to estimate how much dermarolling, acid treatments, or whatever, is too much. I believe that a dermatologist will have to answer these questions. These are my thoughts only (for what it is worth).
INTERNAL: It's much easier to know which steps to take to keep the inflammation in our body under control.
According to the article below from Smartskincare.com, inflammation is now recognized as one of the key risk factors for heart disease and stroke, maybe an even bigger risk factor than high cholesterol and homocysteine. Inflammation is also viewed as a contributor to common age related neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
It says that chronic inflammation contributes to the aging of many tissues (I guess this includes skin), and that it is particularly prominent in the aging of the cardiovascular and nervous system.
Keeping inflammation under control should be a part of anyone's comprehensive anti-aging strategy, according to the article.
| Quote: |
The basic steps to reduce inflammation in the body include:
Better dental hygiene. Low grade gum infections are extremely common and have a major negative impact on heart disease and possibly other conditions.
Exercise. Evidence indicates that regular exercise improves low-grade chronic inflammation (it may worsen acute or active chronic inflammation, so be careful).
Weight loss. Obesity appears to increase the overall level of inflammation in the body, while bringing your weight back to the optimum (BMI 20-25) does the opposite.
No smoking. Smoking floods your system with free radicals and irritants, promotes inflammation and other forms of damage.
Anti-inflammatory diet. Diet has an impact on the overall level of inflammation in your body. A number of dietary adjustments can help minimize inflammation, including the following:
Reducing or eliminating saturated and trans fat; increasing the intake of Omega 3-fat (fish, fish oil, flax seed oil), increasing consumption of varied multicolored fresh fruits ad vegetables, Also, anti-inflammatory diet should be high in fiber and favor low-glycemic foods. Some research indicates that animal protein may be somewhat pro-inflammatory.
http://www.smartskincare.com/aging/aging-mechanisms_inflammation.html
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:35 pm |
Obesity is a major cause of inflammation , it causes leptin resistance and the formation of AGE's in you body , these factors contribute to aging, cancers, heart disease diabetes and Alzheimer's ..etc
one way to avoid inflammation is to lose weight and control you insulin levels in your blood , eat anti, inflammatory foods to avoid lepitn resistance .avoid sugar spikes in blood to prevent AGE's from foaming , alkalizing your body also prevents both
Inflammation on a cellular level disturbs the immune system ,and then set up a motion chain of biochemical events that results in the hormonal imbalance that's is called leptin resistance which makes it nearly impossible to lose weight
AGEs ( advanced glycation end products) :
start with a sugar molecule bonds to a protein molecule and then cross-linking the protein with enzymes that break down healthy tissues, the protein can be anyway in your heart , brain , or skin, accumulation of AGE are major contribution of aging |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:45 pm |
Thanks Septembergirl and Nibn for the information. Very interesting. The anti-inflammatory diet really just seems to be common sense for general good health, basically. I guess I was expecting something more "exotic"!
I have to do some searching around on the external inflammatory causes. I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has any other information on how one would know what is too much inflammation with the acids, etc. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 4:02 pm |
| Drnking lemon water (large glass of water with the juice of one lemon) - or split out the lemon into a few glasses of water) will serve to alkalinize your body... Who would've thought this with an acidic Lemon? I do this and the Greens First drink Bethany mentioned. In fact it is because of Bethany that I tried it. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:21 pm |
| I have been on pH balanced diet for a while now, and lemon water first thing in the morning is a part of it. I test my pH daily, and was able to get to the point where I keep it in a good alkaline range with ease. pH balanced approach makes a lot of sense, and all of a sudden recommendations such as drink lemon water or eat green vegetables have deeper meaning. |
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Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:30 pm |
| That is good amonovais, the skin is acidic, they are talking about the extrememes? My doctor said that acidic products keep the bacteria down and that it helps in cell renewal. |
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