Retin A use for lines and acne
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free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:55 pm

I did a search on the forum for Retin A and came up with 1343 topics. I scanned the first few pages of topics but couldn't find the answers to my questions.

I haven't used the actual Retin A before, just products with retinol. I just bought some from the alldaychemist.

What is the best way to use it? I know it needs to be used at night and a SS in the morning. Can you use it on parts of the face? Do you use it on its own? Can you put other actives with it - before or afterwards? If so which ones? Do you put a moisturiser on afterwards? I know I can use Vit C in the am, but not sure about others. Can I use SC C E Ferulic in the am and Retin A in the pm? Do you have to use it forever?

I'm 59 and I want to work on all the new lines that are starting to show on my face. Also, my daughter wants to use it for her spots. She's 26 and doesn't have a lot of breakouts but she thinks it may help with the ones she does get. I'm worried that it may be too strong for her.

My younger daughter does have quite bad breakouts so she may also use it. She's trying the Buzz On Acne at the moment, but I'm not sure if it's helping. They both had a course of Roaccutane in their teenage years. It worked while they were on it but the acne returned, albeit to a lesser extent, when they stopped.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. TIA

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:37 pm

Hi, anna.
As you suggested, you should use Retin-A in the evening because it increases sun sensitivity. It's a very good idea to use a vitamin C under your sunscreen in the morning because vitamin C gives added protection against the sun. Using SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic AM and Retin-A PM sounds like a very good plan.

You can very well use Retin-A on parts of your face, but I cannot see a good reason for not applying it on your entire face and neck. Retin-A boosts elastin and collagen production, and I assume that you want to take advantage of that on all parts of your face.

Preferably, start out by using Retin-A two times a week the first couple of weeks, and then three times a week etc in order to gradually build up your skin's tolerance.

I would not layer Retin-A with any other actives. It's the only product available that is scientifically proven to decrease wrinkles and other signs of aging, so let it work on its own.

Also, skip the moisturizer afterwards unless you feel a strong need for it. Applying a moisturizer on top of Retin-A will dilute the concentration of tretinoin, hence make it less effective.

On the other hand, if you find Retin-A to cause major irritation, you may want to prep your skin with a moisturizer, wait a couple of minutes, and then apply Retin-A.

All skin care products, Retin-A included, should be used on a regular basis to be effective. FDA trials suggests that to maintain the benefits of Retin-A, one can continue to use it for a lifetime.

Smile

PS. The effectiveness of Retin-A on signs of aging have been demonstrated in numerous scientific studies. However, recently there was published a study showing that the use of Retin-A might be harmful for smokers, so smokers should think twice before including Retin-A in their regimen. Here is more about the study:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=32698&highlight=retina+smokers

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:09 pm

I've been using Retin-A and Renova for about 7 years now. I would recommend that you don't use any other products at night with Retin-A except maybe a moisturizer if you feel you need one. I would stick with a basic moisturizer, not one with and AHA's or retinol at least in the beginning until your skin gets acclimated to Retin-A. Start slow maybe a few times a week to see how your skin will react. I don't know what strength you ordered but it sounds like you've never used Retin-A before. The most important thing is to listen to your skin. If you start to get irritated or too flaky back off with your application. I you have resistant skin you can probably start out with three nights a week or maybe even every other night depending on what strength you bought. Some people experience less irritation by waiting at least 20 minutes after cleansing to apply their Retin-A. I've been using it long enough where it doesn't make a difference if I apply Retin-A right after I cleanse or not. On your nights off from Retin-A you can use your other skin care. Once you work up to nightly use you won't really need to use anything else unless you want to. You can use Retin-A under your eyes and on your neck but I would strongly suggest you go much slower with your application on these areas. They are much more sensitive. Eventually once your skin gets used to Retin-A you can treat theses areas the same as your face. You can try buffering your Retin-A with a moisturizer in the beginning to help your neck and eye area become less irritated. Just mix a small amount of Retin-A in the palm of your hand with a plain moisturizer, then apply to your skin. It helps if certain areas of your face react more strongly to Retin-A than others.

Only apply a small amount like a large pea size all over your face. Do not use Retin-A like you would use a serum or regular moisturizer. Don't just glop it on. A little goes a long way. If you use to much you will suffer the consequences with dry flaky very irritated red skin. Then you'll have to stop using everything until your face calms down. Keep Retin-A away from the corners of your mouth and your nostril creases. You can put it close, but don't let the Retin-A accumulate in these areas. You will get really flaky skin in these areas if the Retin-A accumulates there. Take it slow. Retin-A will take some time to show results so don't try to rush it. It's the best anti-ager you can use for your skin. It can take months for your skin to tolerate it's use every night. It took me almost 6 months. Everyone's skin is different so just start slow. You may not notice much the first week but I know for a fact you will by week two. Like I said if you have resistant skin start out with maybe three times a week and see how your skin takes it. If your skin does fine with that then maybe try every other night. You will know what interval is right for your skin if you start out slow and work your way up to more frequent use. Some ladies with sensitive skin can only use Retin-A once or twice a week in the beginning. Another extremely important thing is to make sure you use sunblock every day while using Retin-A. Your skin will be much more sensitive to the sun.

My nightly regimen during the winter is:

Cleanse
Retin-A or Renova every other night
Moisturizer

On the nights I don't use Retin-A I use my other skincare with happens to be Zo right now.

During the summer my regimen changes a bit

Cleanse
Retin-A or Renova
Sometimes a moisturizer sometimes not

That's it.

I use Retin-A every night during the summer but because my skin is dryer during the winter I use it every other night during the colder months. When you use Retin-A you don't need any other anti-aging products. Save them for your nights off of Retin-A or for use in the morning.

When I started using Retin-A I started with the lowest strength, 0.025%. After a month my skin was ready for the 0.05%. Some people can only use the lowest strength and that's fine. You will not get any more benefits from using a higher strength. What's more important than the strength you use is that use use Retin-A regularly. Be consistent. If your skin is happy with every other night use than stick with it. Some ladies complain about the flaking and peeling and by being consistent with your use our skin will become used to Retin-A sooner rather than later and the flakiness will subside. It may take a few months but if you continue to start and stop with your Retin-A use, your skin will never adjust to it and you will continue to peel more often.

I know you'll get more excellent advice from the other ladies on this board. They are wonderful and very knowledgeable.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:20 pm

Does anyone else have any tips or tricks about Retin-a? I've been searching it plenty but with searches like "Green cream" it's hard to wade through to find actual posts about green cream and not posts with the words green and cream in it. If that makes sense. Do you suggest starting with say Skinceuticals or Green Cream which have moisturizing properties before going for the straight retin-a to get one's skin accustomed??

I went to a dermatologist who is featured in our local media for my acne a couple of years ago. He suggested a)going on diane-35 b)using a regimen he sold in office -solvere- and c)using retin-a. Just recently I started taking diane and I am now researching retin-a. His advice was probably spot on but it took me a while to take it, I don't think he had the time to inform me, what with much more expensive procedures to attend to... Well - he did tell me that women who had been using retin-a looked much younger, and had less wrinkles than those who didn't. That if I started using it now for acne I would appreciate the benefits when I was older. Anyways, hope that was a positive contribution to this thread.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:34 pm

I pretty much went right to Retin-A 0.025% the lowest strength right from the start. I tried Green Cream back when it first came out but found it was more irritating than Retin-A. I only used Green Cream one month and started right with Retin-A 0.025% twice a week. I slowly worked my way up to every other night and then switched to 0.05% every other night and now every night. If you have really sensitive skin you might want to start out with a retinol product like one of the products below first, but if your skin isn't sensitive, you can start slowly with the lowest dose Retin-A. As long as you start real slow it shouldn't be a problem at all. Pay attention to your skin.

Avene 0.025 --- .25% - ($44) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Avene 0.05 --- .50% - ($56) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Avene 0.1 --- 1% - ($64) --- Dermstore (free shipping)

Afirm1X --- .15% -($35) --- Skinstore (free shipping)
Afirm 2X --- .3% - ($3 Cool

--- Skinstore (free shipping)
Afirm 3X --- .6% - ($40) --- Skinstore (free shipping)

Green Cream Level 3 --- .3% - ($36) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Green Cream Level 6 --- .6% - ($43) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Green Cream Level 9 --- .9% - ($50) --- Dermstore (free shipping)

Philosophy Help Me --- .15% - ($49) --- Skinstore (free shipping) /Q/philosophy

Alpha Hydroxy Retinol ResQ --- .15% - ($14.99) - Neoteric Cosmetics (the only place I know of you can get this - not sure of s/h price)

Paula's Choice Super Antioxidant Recovery Serum --- .25% - ($24.95) --- Cosmetics Cop (s/h about $5)

Skinceuticals 0.5 ---.5% - ($46) --- Skinstore (free shipping)
Skinceuticals 1.0 --- 1% - ($52) --- Skinstore (free shipping)

Biomedic 15 --- .15% - ($47) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Biomedic 30 --- .30% - ($49) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Biomedic 60 --- .60% - ($52) --- Dermstore (free shipping)

Topix Replenix Retinol Smoothing Serum 2X --- .20% - ($50.40) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Topix Replenix Retinol Smoothing Serum 3X --- .30% - ($57.60) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Topix Replenix Retinol Smoothing Serum 5X --- .50% - ($63) --- Dermstore (free shipping)
Topix Replenix Retinol Smoothing Serum 10X --- 1% - ($72) --- Dermstore (free shipping)

There are many other good retinol products. This is just a list of a few and their retinol percentages.

Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:34 pm

I have a prescribed 0.1%...so 4x stronger than .025...and I used it 3 nights in a row = red flaky gross skin.

after a 2 or 3 days can i use my microdermabrasion in a jar???

its weird that my doctor told me every night to use it...as i can see that doesnt really make my skin better

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:50 pm

Do you actually get 0.25% Retin-A? I ordered a 60g tube from an online pharmacy, and even emailed them to double-check its strength. I can't it on sale anywhere else; only 0.025% elsewhere.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:04 pm

daftpunkcyclist wrote:

I have a prescribed 0.1%...so 4x stronger than .025...and I used it 3 nights in a row = red flaky gross skin.

after a 2 or 3 days can i use my microdermabrasion in a jar???

its weird that my doctor told me every night to use it...as i can see that doesnt really make my skin better

It WILL make your skin look better, but it's not instantaneous. I dry brush my face so that removes all the flaky skin.

I think you should back off for a few days and let your skin rest. I did what you're doing and after the flaky skin came so did a lot of irritation. Now I use it every 2-3 days.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:05 pm

ljk wrote:

Do you actually get 0.25% Retin-A? I ordered a 60g tube from an online pharmacy, and even emailed them to double-check its strength. I can't it on sale anywhere else; only 0.025% elsewhere.

I think .1% is the highest strength. The .25% must've been a typo, meaning .025%.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:39 pm

P Girl wrote:

I think .1% is the highest strength. The .25% must've been a typo, meaning .025%.

Thanks for the quick reply P Girl. They said 0.25% was correct. I suppose I'll find out when it arrives! Confused

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:48 pm

Yikes...I can't imagine .25% strength! I really don't think there is such a thing...

If it's incorrect I would complain BIG TIME to that company.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:55 pm

One clarification, using moisturizer on top of Retin A will not dilute it. Meaning, if you apply 0.5gm Retin A straight from the tube, then no matter if you use moisturizer or not, you still have applied the 0.5 gm.

If you take the 20gm tube of Retin A, and empty it into an 8oz bottle of lotion, and then apply it . . . . then yes you are diluting it.

I really like Retin A, I use it only a few times per week and my bad texture is much better after 2 yrs of use, but still not perfect. . sigh. But still I will take the improvement it has given me.

I am surprised though that it has done nothing really for my hands. I thought it would have.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:15 pm

Retinol .25% and Retin-A .025% are two totally different things. You cannot compare retinol strengths to Retin-A strengths. They are two totally different products. The list I made out are all retinol products. Do not compare the strengths of retinol products against Retin-A or Renova.. The highest strength reinol product which is .1% is still 10 times weaker than the lowest strength Retin-A product and they work on your skin in two totally different ways. Retinol as to convert to retinoic acid on your skin. Retin-A does not have to convert to anything. It is what it is.

It takes two and three metabolic steps, correspondingly, to convert retinol and retinyl palmitate to retinoic acid. The overall rate of conversion of retinol to retinoic acid is low and that of retinyl palmitate is lower still. Therefore a relatively large amount of retinol and even larger amount of retinyl palmitate needs to be delivered into a cell to boost retinoic acid levels and produce clinically meaningful effects taht still don't even come close to Retin-A.

http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/retinol.html

http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/tretin.html

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:13 pm

Ah, now that makes more sense.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:35 pm

LuvToSmile wrote:

One clarification, using moisturizer on top of Retin A will not dilute it. Meaning, if you apply 0.5gm Retin A straight from the tube, then no matter if you use moisturizer or not, you still have applied the 0.5 gm.

I don't quite agree with you on this. It takes time for the Retin-A to absorb. In the meantime, whatever you put on top may somewhat dilute it or rub it away.

If one feels a need for a moisturizer on top of Retin-A, it's wise to wait at least half an hour to make sure that Retin-A is completely absorbed.

Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:54 pm

Well I don't know whether moisturisers will dilute Retin A but my doctor who prescribed tretinoin cream (now using 0.1%) to me asks me to put moisturisers (if needed) before the tretinoin cream and nothing afterwards.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:19 pm

Wow lots of great information. Thanks Ladies Very Happy

Keli, I have the .05% not the .025%. I have used ZO RNR every night for a while without too much itching and no flaking. I don't think my skin is sensitive. I will try only one or twice a week to start and see how I go with that. I will also tell my daughter to go easy.

I'm still a bit confused about the moisturiser if I need it. Does it go on before or after?

I have also just started with the AALS and I believe you have to wait some time after that before putting on the Retin A. Alternatively, I could not do the AALS on the one or two nights I put the Retin A on. I think I'll go with that. What do you think?

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:43 pm

for everyone who is using retin-a - what moisturizer do you use?
there is a very good post on mua from irishgrant who believes that irritated, flaky skin can be avoided when using retin-a if one:
begins by using it every other night for the first month; always waits for 1/2-1 hour after washing face at night; always uses a maximum strength sunscreen; uses very gentle cleansers and a really good moisturizer.

i use very good sunscreen (La Roche Posay) and very gentle cleansing oil, but still looking for a basic (least # of ingrediens), yet very good moisturizer for a very sensitive skin.
any suggestions? thanks

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:11 pm

Instead of guessing which ingredients you might be allergic to, Try emu oil, its composition is akin to the skin's natural oils. Make sure it is "fully refined' or molecularly distilled.

free skin care · Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:48 am

P Girl wrote:

ljk wrote:

Do you actually get 0.25% Retin-A? I ordered a 60g tube from an online pharmacy, and even emailed them to double-check its strength. I can't it on sale anywhere else; only 0.025% elsewhere.

I think .1% is the highest strength. The .25% must've been a typo, meaning .025%.

Argh, why can't people do simple arithmetic. As I expected, 0.025% Retin-A came through the post this morning.

I sent a pleasantly-worded email asking the pharmacy to amend their website listing, their reply was that "0.025% and 0.25% is the same amount"!

free skin care · Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:07 pm

Wow--that's pretty unprofessional. Did you set them straight?

free skin care · Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:53 pm

I did try, by using the example of multiplying 0.25% and 0.025% by 10, to make my point simple.

However, they said "these are different ways of expressing the same fraction
no one has complained in 5 years except you". I give up!!

That's what I get for not knowing my Retin-A strengths!

free skin care · Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:08 pm

That's just hysterical!

What's the company?

free skin care · Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:34 pm

I was waiting to see what sort of replies I got before naming them; it's nubrain.com. Not really my style to badmouth people, but I suppose they deserve it now!

I'm happy with their swift service otherwise (I ordered other things). Their abrupt nonsensical replies were disappointing. I could really kick up a stink and say I want a refund of my purchase and postage, but I doubt they'll care judging by those responses Confused

free skin care · Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:02 pm

That's a bunch of BS.

I don't think you've badmouthed them AT ALL. It's very unprofessional (and STUPID! Clearly the person who you've been emailing with cannot do simple math!) and IMO dishonest advertising so people should be aware of it.

I'm staying away from them!

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